Proof that waterboarding is Torture: Calling on DogBert, Article_15, & StrollingBones

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by PLYMCO_PILGRIM, Jan 8, 2010.

  1. PLYMCO_PILGRIM
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    PLYMCO_PILGRIM Gold Member

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    I'm talking to Dogbert, Article_15, and StrollingBones specifically here. If anyone else wants to chime in feel free but i'm truly interested in the opinion of those 3 forum members each for different reasons.

    I'm willing to listen just present me with the proof, your reasoning, and anything else you can to convince me it is "torture". Please provide your definition of torture too so I can consider your thoughts in perspective.

    Please dont deflect and ask me to prove how it is torture as i'm not 100% sure that it is. Just provide me with your reasoning so I can make up my mind on this subject.

    And if anyone is curious as to why I asked those 3 it is basically because they feel strongly that it is (at least in their postings) and I have a lot of respect for them as individuals.

    [​IMG]

    DEFINITION OF WATERBOARDING:

    Waterboarding as it is currently described involves strapping a person to an inclined board, with his feet raised and his head lowered. The interrogators bind the person's arms and legs so he can't move at all, and they cover his face. In some descriptions, the person is gagged, and some sort of cloth covers his nose and mouth; in others, his face is wrapped in cellophane. The interrogator then repeatedly pours water onto the person's face. Depending on the exact setup, the water may or may not actually get into the person's mouth and nose; but the physical experience of being underneath a wave of water seems to be secondary to the psychological experience. The person's mind believes he is drowning, and his gag reflex kicks in as if he were choking on all that water falling on his face.

    Definition of Torture:

    StrollingBones' definition provided to me by her "Torture is defined under the federal criminal code as the intentional infliction of severe mental pain or suffering"
     
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    Last edited: Jan 8, 2010
  2. strollingbones
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    strollingbones Diamond Member

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    are we accepting the defination of water boarding as being the temporary suffacation of a person?
     
  3. strollingbones
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    strollingbones Diamond Member

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    i think it is torture. you repeatly cover a person's mouth and nose and keep them on the edge of suffication?

    [​IMG]


    and you have to question the information gathered....if you have someone captured etc...how fresh is there info? will a person say anything or give you false information to stop the waterboarding?
    i have been told ....a good questioner ...already knows the answer....with the technology of today...does it really have a purpose? i hear all this stuff about information gathering....yet we can see a car crosing a bridge in iraq...from space....

    i do not understand why people fight calling it torture. mr mccain has spoken out against it. if you are willing to torture people, then call it what it is. dont get on a high horse and want to play semantics....withholding air from a human is simply torture.
     
  4. Xenophon
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    Xenophon Gone and forgotten

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    This thread appears to be torture.
     
  5. rightwinger
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    rightwinger Paid Messageboard Poster Gold Supporting Member Supporting Member

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    Waterboarding - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
     
  6. strollingbones
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    strollingbones Diamond Member

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    waterboarding is not new...it has a long history...

    Current and former CIA officers tell ABC News that they were trained to handcuff the prisoner and cover his face with cellophane to enhance the distress. According to Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., himself a torture victim during the Vietnam War, the water board technique is a "very exquisite torture" that should be outlawed.

    "Torture is defined under the federal criminal code as the intentional infliction of severe mental pain or suffering," said John Sifton, an attorney and researcher with the organization Human Rights Watch. "That would include water boarding."

    *mal left out*

    Water boarding was designated as illegal by U.S. generals in Vietnam 40 years ago. A photograph that appeared in The Washington Post of a U.S. soldier involved in water boarding a North Vietnamese prisoner in 1968 led to that soldier's severe punishment.

    *some more mal left out*

    Earlier in 1901, the United States had taken a similar stand against water boarding during the Spanish-American War when an Army major was sentenced to 10 years of hard labor for water boarding an insurgent in the Philippines.

    The CIA maintains its interrogation techniques are in legal guidance with the Justice Department. And current and former CIA officers tell ABC News there is a presidential finding, signed in 2002, by President Bush, Condoleezza Rice and then-Attorney General John Ashcroft approving the techniques, including water boarding.

    History of an Interrogation Technique: Water Boarding - ABC News

    as you can see historical evidence indicates that waterboarding is and has been considered torture.
     
  7. PLYMCO_PILGRIM
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    PLYMCO_PILGRIM Gold Member

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    I will put up the definition of waterboarding in the OP for you bones.

    I also would like your definition of torture and I will edit it in (provided I get it fast enough so that the edit availibilty of my OP isn't removed).
     
  8. saveliberty
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    saveliberty Diamond Member

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    This thread is thought provoking. I was just thinking about how prisoners of war in Vietnam were starved and subjected to the elements for no real purpose other than to break their spirits. Then I was trying to remember what condition hostages held in Iraq and Afghanistan looked like. They seem to have been treated pretty decent. Not counting the beheaded ones. Also, how many tapes did we make for Al Jazera of terrorists renouncing their actions?
     
  9. rightwinger
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    rightwinger Paid Messageboard Poster Gold Supporting Member Supporting Member

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    Not sure I get your point?

    That we should model our ethics after Al Jazera ?
     
  10. saveliberty
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    saveliberty Diamond Member

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    Just some observations rightwinger. It is just strange to me that some prisoners held by terrorists seem to be treated very well and others are killed. Also, if we were torturing so much, it seems we would have some nifty tapes of people renouncing terrorism. What is the ethical standard for a tape like that? Wrong because done under pressure? Probably. If you are looking for an argument, I'm not headed there.
     

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