Proof just how out of touch Obama is and why he must go in 2012

[Remodeling Maidiac]

Hey Gammpy did the banks cheat people?

Hey numbnuts, this thread isn't about the banks or the bailouts. I know its difficult for you but try to stay on topic.

 

[ladyliberal]

I disagree with you on a number of points:

1) So far as I can tell from reading your post and internet searches, Obama has never said in any manner of phrasing that "the most important issue of our time is income despairity [sic]". He gave a fairly long speech (Full text of President Obama’s economic speech in Osawatomie, Kans. - The Washington Post) in which he referred to income disparity explicitly twice, calling it bad for the economy and distortive of our democracy (he was correct on both counts). He never said that it was the most important issue of our time, and if he gives a speech tomorrow praising the Boy Scouts it won't mean he thinks they are the greatest organization of our time.

2) You may feel that the three most important issues are as you stated (it depends of course on how one splits up discrete issues-- jobs, recovery, and income disparity are all quite related). However, were Obama to believe otherwise, he would hardly be out of touch-- in particular very few people seem to cite terrorism as a top concern these days (Priorities).

3) Whether Obama agrees with your clients and suppliers has very little to do with whether he is in touch. I can assure you that people I know personally overwhelmingly support Obama for reelection, but that doesn't mean I expect him to earn 90% of the vote. Any group of mutual acquaintances will fail to comprise an accurate statistical representation of a country as large and diverse as ours.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YH635t1mYoM&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Moral of the story is just because you didn't hear or see it doesn't mean it didn't happen.

I never said that Obama never said something, I said you post didn't demonstrate otherwise. For all I know Obama rails against income inequality into the mirror every morning while he shaves. Now let's look at your quote. From what I can tell from the noisy brief youtube clip, you are referring to the following passage (http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/political-animal/2011_12/obama_identifies_the_defining033948.php):


“[T]here’s been a raging debate over the best way to restore growth and prosperity, restore balance, restore fairness. Throughout the country, it’s sparked protests and political movements — from the tea party to the people who’ve been occupying the streets of New York and other cities. It’s left Washington in a near-constant state of gridlock. It’s been the topic of heated and sometimes colorful discussion among the men and women running for president.

“But, Osawatomie, this is not just another political debate. This is the defining issue of our time. This is a make-or-break moment for the middle class, and for all those who are fighting to get into the middle class.”


Clearly, in this quote Obama does not claim that income disparity is the defining issue of our time. He reserves that honor for "restor[ing] growth and prosperity, restor[ing] balance, restor[ing] fairness." Those issues relate to income disparity (and fairness seems to allude to it, and to other things), and I'm sure you disagree with Obama as to how they relate to income disparity, but surely you must admit that the issue of restoring growth is not *the same as* the issue of income disparity.

The moral of the story seems to be, just because *you* *did* hear or see something doesn't mean that it *did* happen.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

I disagree with you on a number of points:

1) So far as I can tell from reading your post and internet searches, Obama has never said in any manner of phrasing that "the most important issue of our time is income despairity [sic]". He gave a fairly long speech (Full text of President Obama’s economic speech in Osawatomie, Kans. - The Washington Post) in which he referred to income disparity explicitly twice, calling it bad for the economy and distortive of our democracy (he was correct on both counts). He never said that it was the most important issue of our time, and if he gives a speech tomorrow praising the Boy Scouts it won't mean he thinks they are the greatest organization of our time.

2) You may feel that the three most important issues are as you stated (it depends of course on how one splits up discrete issues-- jobs, recovery, and income disparity are all quite related). However, were Obama to believe otherwise, he would hardly be out of touch-- in particular very few people seem to cite terrorism as a top concern these days (Priorities).

3) Whether Obama agrees with your clients and suppliers has very little to do with whether he is in touch. I can assure you that people I know personally overwhelmingly support Obama for reelection, but that doesn't mean I expect him to earn 90% of the vote. Any group of mutual acquaintances will fail to comprise an accurate statistical representation of a country as large and diverse as ours.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YH635t1mYoM&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Moral of the story is just because you didn't hear or see it doesn't mean it didn't happen.

I never said that Obama never said something, I said you post didn't demonstrate otherwise. For all I know Obama rails against income inequality into the mirror every morning while he shaves. Now let's look at your quote. From what I can tell from the noisy brief youtube clip, you are referring to the following passage (http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/political-animal/2011_12/obama_identifies_the_defining033948.php):


“[T]here’s been a raging debate over the best way to restore growth and prosperity, restore balance, restore fairness. Throughout the country, it’s sparked protests and political movements — from the tea party to the people who’ve been occupying the streets of New York and other cities. It’s left Washington in a near-constant state of gridlock. It’s been the topic of heated and sometimes colorful discussion among the men and women running for president.

“But, Osawatomie, this is not just another political debate. This is the defining issue of our time. This is a make-or-break moment for the middle class, and for all those who are fighting to get into the middle class.”


Clearly, in this quote Obama does not claim that income disparity is the defining issue of our time. He reserves that honor for "restor[ing] growth and prosperity, restor[ing] balance, restor[ing] fairness." Those issues relate to income disparity (and fairness seems to allude to it, and to other things), and I'm sure you disagree with Obama as to how they relate to income disparity, but surely you must admit that the issue of restoring growth is not *the same as* the issue of income disparity.

The moral of the story seems to be, just because *you* *did* hear or see something doesn't mean that it *did* happen.

lol

Fail

 

[peach174]

There wasn't so much talk about income disparity before the housing bubble crashed and people were buying houses without down payments and jobs. Or they were overextending themselves.

People have to take responsibility for their own messes.

everyone but the bank CEOs huh?

why is it the right pretends the banks did not flat out cheat people all through this mess?

Big Government and both parities caused this whole mess.
Crony Capitalism must be gotten rid of

Crony capitalism is a term describing a capitalist economy in which success in business depends on close relationships between business people and government officials. It may be exhibited by favoritism in the distribution of legal permits, government grants, special tax breaks, and so forth.

Crony capitalism is believed to arise when political cronyism spills over into the business world; self-serving friendships and family ties between businessmen and the government influence the economy and society to the extent that it corrupts public-serving economic and political ideals.

We the voters of this nation, need to elect people who campaign, to get bills in to stop crony capitalism.
Both the OWS and tea party want to get rid of this,
We need to make these types of deals, against the law for any congressmen or government official to continue to do this.
If we get rid of this then Bankers and Wall St. can't do what they have been doing.

 

[ladyliberal]

lol

Fail

I don't know what you mean by that. Are we done, or may I expect a more substantive response?

 

[Cuyo]

you dont get to deside that.

Income dispairity caused this whole mess.

The talk coming from EVERYONE everywhere is jobs and economy. The only people I hear whining about how much someone else makes are extremists like you. I never hear it from my clients or suppliers. Never.

Fruit of the poisoned tree

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

lol

Fail

I don't know what you mean by that. Are we done, or may I expect a more substantive response?

I usually respect your opinions but not here. You have discredited my op in your own mind so there really is no where left to go.

 

[The Rabbi]

Obama says the most important issue of our time is income despairity.

When so clearly the 3 top issues are....

Jobs
Economic recovery
Terrorism

ok you can link it to jobs, and economic recovery, Terrorism not really.

See if people are working they are less likely to bitch about income despairity.
See if the economy is going strong then you have less bitching about Income despairity.

Terrorism is just terrorism...

But you also have a shrinking middleclass, you have no real growth in manufacturing jobs, or anything to replace that. You have more people becoming poorer, and richer people becoming richer. ( dont get me wrong, make money and if you earn it keep it)

So it becomes much harder to rise above income dispairity when the lack of quality jobs are there, and the economy is stale.

shrug

So you admit that the issue is actually jobs/the economy and that if those were doing well no one would care about income disparity (which doesn't exist as a problem anyway).

 

[Politician]

There wasn't so much talk about income disparity before the housing bubble crashed and people were buying houses without down payments and jobs. Or they were overextending themselves.

People have to take responsibility for their own messes.

everyone but the bank CEOs huh?

why is it the right pretends the banks did not flat out cheat people all through this mess?

Big Government and both parities caused this whole mess.
Crony Capitalism must be gotten rid of

Crony capitalism is a term describing a capitalist economy in which success in business depends on close relationships between business people and government officials. It may be exhibited by favoritism in the distribution of legal permits, government grants, special tax breaks, and so forth.

Crony capitalism is believed to arise when political cronyism spills over into the business world; self-serving friendships and family ties between businessmen and the government influence the economy and society to the extent that it corrupts public-serving economic and political ideals.

We the voters of this nation, need to elect people who campaign, to get bills in to stop crony capitalism.
Both the OWS and tea party want to get rid of this,
We need to make these types of deals, against the law for any congressmen or government official to continue to do this.
If we get rid of this then Bankers and Wall St. can't do what they have been doing.

What politician do you know of that has a record taking on crony capitalism that you like?

 

[Dot Com]

Obama says the most important issue of our time is income despairity.

When so clearly the 3 top issues are....

Jobs
Economic recovery
Terrorism

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YH635t1mYoM&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Ironic that you put "jobs" at the top of your list as they're what determines income-disparity. There are plenty of low-paying "jobs" out there, thanks to outsourcing, that wouldn't even pay the grocery bill. YOU'RE out of touch

 

[The Rabbi]

Big Government Socialism is what is shrinking the middle class.
Any time any government throughout history, gets to big and takes control the middle class always shrinks.
Why Socialism doesnt' work;

Why Socialism and Wealth Redistribution Don’t Work

But it does work, and we can point to other nations as evidence. We can also say PURE socalism doesnt work, and PURE free market Capitalism doesnt work either.

You are trying to use socialism as a boogeyman word to scare people. Like usual people who understand context will know you are talking out of your ass.

Yeah, it's working great for Greece, Italy, Spain, Portugal, France, and Belgium.
Any other idiotic comments you can make? Maybe something about tax fairness?

 

[Cuyo]

Obama says the most important issue of our time is income despairity.

When so clearly the 3 top issues are....

Jobs
Economic recovery
Terrorism

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YH635t1mYoM&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Ironic that you put "jobs" at the top of your list as they're what determines income-disparity. There are plenty of low-paying "jobs" out there, thanks to outsourcing, that wouldn't even pay the grocery bill. YOU'RE out of touch

It's like saying "This idiot thinks drought is the #1 problem when actually it's thirst!"

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

Obama says the most important issue of our time is income despairity.

When so clearly the 3 top issues are....

Jobs
Economic recovery
Terrorism

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YH635t1mYoM&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Ironic that you put "jobs" at the top of your list as they're what determines income-disparity. There are plenty of low-paying "jobs" out there, thanks to outsourcing, that wouldn't even pay the grocery bill. YOU'RE out of touch

I meet and talk to a lot of people through my business. None of them are crying about other peoples income. As far as your low paying job nonsense its just that,
Nonsense. Look on the internet job listings. Plenty of good jobs. Plenty.

You see what you want to see.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Big Government Socialism is what is shrinking the middle class.
Any time any government throughout history, gets to big and takes control the middle class always shrinks.

Gibberish.

There is no ‘socialism’ practiced anywhere in the United States today, yet another rightist contrivance, myth, and red herring.

I meet and talk to a lot of people through my business.

And?

How is that in any way representative of the Nation as a whole? There’s more to America than your anecdotal venue.

 

[Dragon]

I meet and talk to a lot of people through my business. None of them are crying about other peoples income.

I had a friend who, as the 1984 election approached, voiced fears of electoral fraud because in 1980 "nobody I knew was voting for Reagan."

The plural of "anecdote" is not "data."

Six in 10 Support Policies Addressing Income Inequality - ABC News

"Sixty-one percent in this ABC News/Washington Post poll think the wealth gap is larger than it’s been historically. And despite longstanding public concerns about activist government, six in 10 also say the federal government should seek to reduce that differential.

"The public’s concern is buttressed by a recent Congressional Budget Office estimate that the wealthiest 1 percent of Americans have nearly tripled their incomes since 1979, while the bottom 80 percent of earners have seen their share of the nation’s total income slightly decline."

That's just public opinion, of course (which probably explains why Obama is talking about it). But in fact, he's absolutely right. Income disparity is why our economy collapsed in 2008. All of the other causes, from bad mortgages to falling home values to derivatives trading to lack of oversight of the financial industry, would otherwise have produced a banking crisis but not a recession, let alone the second Depression we see now.

The economy depends on consumer spending. Consumer spending depends on money in many people's hands, which is inversely proportional to income disparity. When income disparity is very high, most people don't have enough income to spend on purchases, inventories pile up unsold, and the economy goes into recession.

For a while, we can (and did) prop up incomes with credit, but that only works for a while. Sooner or later, credit capacity becomes exhausted, or some damned thing or other messes up the financial sector and the credit stops flowing. Then the economy breaks down. And that's the reason why the banking crisis a few years ago became an economy-wide recession and then a depression.

If we want to remove that vulnerability, restore real prosperity, and prevent a recurrence, we must address the unhealthy income disparity in this country. It is (almost) job one. The only thing that's more important is getting the money out of politics so that addressing that and other crucial issues is even possible.

 

[The Rabbi]

But it does work, and we can point to other nations as evidence. We can also say PURE socalism doesnt work, and PURE free market Capitalism doesnt work either.

You are trying to use socialism as a boogeyman word to scare people. Like usual people who understand context will know you are talking out of your ass.

Yeah, it's working great for Greece, Italy, Spain, Portugal, France, and Belgium.
Any other idiotic comments you can make? Maybe something about tax fairness?

god you are stupid. Its a scale. Tip it one way too much and Greece happens( granted one could point to the fact the wall street helped fuck them over, but i dont want to make it to complex for your simple mind.

oh good tax fairness, stop trying to raise my taxes you asshole.

you hate socialism that much? then we can block you from calling the Fire, Police, or the have the military protect you. You cant drive on my roads either.

you stupid fuck

What scale is it? Every place that widespread social programs and give-aways have been tried, the results have been the same: burdensome taxation, low economic growth, high structural unemployment, and crushing budget deficits.
Fuck you, you socialist simp. You are too fucking stupid to breathe.

 

[peach174]

Big Government Socialism is what is shrinking the middle class.
Any time any government throughout history, gets to big and takes control the middle class always shrinks.
Why Socialism doesnt' work;

Why Socialism and Wealth Redistribution Don’t Work

But it does work, and we can point to other nations as evidence. We can also say PURE socalism doesn't work, and PURE free market Capitalism doesnt work either.

You are trying to use socialism as a boogeyman word to scare people. Like usual people who understand context will know you are talking out of your ass.

Tell that to the Europian Social systems that are going down because of too much entiltlement programs.

I'm not trying to scare anyone. I'm telling you facts. Big Government anywhere throghout history always fails. It always becomes unsubstainable and fails.

 

[Dot Com]

I meet and talk to a lot of people through my business. None of them are crying about other peoples income.

I had a friend who, as the 1984 election approached, voiced fears of electoral fraud because in 1980 "nobody I knew was voting for Reagan."

The plural of "anecdote" is not "data."

Six in 10 Support Policies Addressing Income Inequality - ABC News

"Sixty-one percent in this ABC News/Washington Post poll think the wealth gap is larger than it’s been historically. And despite longstanding public concerns about activist government, six in 10 also say the federal government should seek to reduce that differential.

"The public’s concern is buttressed by a recent Congressional Budget Office estimate that the wealthiest 1 percent of Americans have nearly tripled their incomes since 1979, while the bottom 80 percent of earners have seen their share of the nation’s total income slightly decline."

That's just public opinion, of course (which probably explains why Obama is talking about it). But in fact, he's absolutely right. Income disparity is why our economy collapsed in 2008. All of the other causes, from bad mortgages to falling home values to derivatives trading to lack of oversight of the financial industry, would otherwise have produced a banking crisis but not a recession, let alone the second Depression we see now.

The economy depends on consumer spending. Consumer spending depends on money in many people's hands, which is inversely proportional to income disparity. When income disparity is very high, most people don't have enough income to spend on purchases, inventories pile up unsold, and the economy goes into recession.

For a while, we can (and did) prop up incomes with credit, but that only works for a while. Sooner or later, credit capacity becomes exhausted, or some damned thing or other messes up the financial sector and the credit stops flowing. Then the economy breaks down. And that's the reason why the banking crisis a few years ago became an economy-wide recession and then a depression.

If we want to remove that vulnerability, restore real prosperity, and prevent a recurrence, we must address the unhealthy income disparity in this country. It is (almost) job one. The only thing that's more important is getting the money out of politics so that addressing that and other crucial issues is even possible.

 

[healthmyths]

you dont get to deside that.

Income dispairity caused this whole mess.

WHAT INCOME disparity????

Early 1900s, colleges were not exclusive just to children of the wealthy.
Today: college education is FREE! Pell Grants.. scholarships..!!!!


1850, the US was home to 19 millionaires. But the years following the Civil War had seen a considerable increase in membership of that exclusive club. By the end of the 1890's the number of millionaires in the US had swelled to more than 4,000.

A quarterly report prepared by the Economist Intelligence Unit on behalf of Barclays Wealth in 2007 estimated that there were 16,600,000 millionaires in the USA
Millionaire - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


4,000 millionaires in 1890 40 times that ..16.6 million millionaires in 2007!

WHAT Disparity!!!
Population in 1890 --62,979,766 or ratio of 1 millionaire for every 15,744!
Population in 2007 --301,139,947 ratio of 1 million for every 18 people!

What Disparity???
Seems 1 millionaire for every 18 versus 1 millionaire for every 15,744!!

Would someone PLEASE tell me where the Disparity is???

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

yeah but while terrorism can affect ones economy. i dont think it has a place here.

So you think the president ( any sitting in office ) is directly responsible for our economy?

Because those companies dont want to comeback here. They dont need to anymore. You have cheap labor, and loose laws whereever they land.
Tax breaks will do nothing.

Im sorry for everyone in america but those jobs are gone and we need something to replace it. Some new tech we can make. I dont think solar panels is that answer. Yeah it will create jobs, but not nearly enough in my opinion.

They all have options gramps, and just because he decides to not do what you want, doesnt make him bad.

I dont play Madden, does that make me a bad videogame player?

Yes, I believe a presidents agenda and policies have a very direct impact on our economy.

As far as your assertion that companies won't come back I have a thought. If your right we have NOTHING to lose by offering the carrot to begin with. Only gains could be made. So why not try? Remember the Wright brothers?

So then you agree that Bushes policies help led to the 08 crash correct?
You agree that Clinton's policies helped us to a decent economy?

more so since obama is a failure and hasnt done anything or passed anything ( i read that here) how can his "policies" have any affect on our economy.
or
Do you think it goes more like this. The President has SOME impact on the economy,but doesnt have direct control over it.

Then you have to ask where does congress play into this? How much of the blame do they get, or does the President get all of it?

Why do these people deserve tax free anything? You want to sell your shit here? Taxed. You want to make stuff here? Taxed. You want to make money here? Taxed.

Yes on Bush and Clinton. Yes on congress playing a large roll. As demonstrated by the democrats wasting 2 years on healthcare rather than economic solutions. All led by Obama.

And your last paragraph speaks for itself. You want jobs to come back or not? If we don't offer a carrot they will stay offshore just as your original post stated. If however we offer the companies tax breaks we may entice them to return jobs here. Thus bringing revenue to the govt through all the new employees as well as from the products or services sold. There is no downside unless class warfare is your only concern.