Promises Broken

[sealybobo]

I think the obamalama has already broken two promises of "change"

1.. taking all the clintonistas on board


2. he's backing away from taxing the rich! lol



oh my my my oh my!

Sitting at home all day on your ass, you should watch the news. Obama just had a press conference and he seems ready to tackle the housing, unemployment, healthcare, war, deficit, economy problems all right away.

Not like the Bush's. They made campaign promises and ignored/avoided every one of them from the moment they won. Except for one. Tax breaks to the rich. They kept that promise.

 

[WillowTree]

Sitting at home all day on your ass, you should watch the news. Obama just had a press conference and he seems ready to tackle the housing, unemployment, healthcare, war, deficit, economy problems all right away.

Not like the Bush's. They made campaign promises and ignored/avoided every one of them from the moment they won. Except for one. Tax breaks to the rich. They kept that promise.

hey! DUmmie.. I was sitting on my azz at home,, too bad for you,, you can't do it.. I did watch the press conference,, good by farm subsidies,, no new health care for you.. or me... just gonna update the technology.. now get back to work slacker..

 

[WillowTree]

oh btw bobo,, i watched on fox news cause they run the wall street ticker next to the obamalama picture,, it went from +35 to -6 in two seconds flat,, soon as he started talking,, just so ya know..

 

[sealybobo]

oh btw bobo,, i watched on fox news cause they run the wall street ticker next to the obamalama picture,, it went from +35 to -6 in two seconds flat,, soon as he started talking,, just so ya know..

Of course WallStreet doesn't like him.

They have too much power. We've been saying that all along.

That's why we're going to end the Federal Reserve. Just renig on the debt. Watch. Fuck them. They've been raping us for years. And Haloburton's assets will be frozen. They moved most of their money to Dubai, but they still have billions left here in the USA. Blackwater too. Any defense contractor that robbed the treasury will have their assets frozen/siezed. Chaney will be indicted. It'll be great!!! Paulson will go to prison too.

 

[WillowTree]

Of course WallStreet doesn't like him.

They have too much power. We've been saying that all along.

That's why we're going to end the Federal Reserve. Just renig on the debt. Watch. Fuck them. They've been raping us for years. And Haloburton's assets will be frozen. They moved most of their money to Dubai, but they still have billions left here in the USA. Blackwater too. Any defense contractor that robbed the treasury will have their assets frozen/siezed. Chaney will be indicted. It'll be great!!! Paulson will go to prison too.

you are operating with impaired equipment!

 

[editec]

At least one of the points people have been making is that while the appointees are "qualified" by traditional standards, there is no real difference between these guys and the last guys or the guys before them. And, those are the guys that got us here. So, if you are happy with the way things are running now, economically, then you will continue to be happy next year.

To some extent I agree with you.

I say to some extent because the BUSH TEAM is without a doubt the worst field of advisors any Republican has ever brought to the White House.

I mean look at really, these same guys are going in and out of power in government in different positions. Then, they go in and out of power in various high power Wall Street banks. When you take a broad look at the last 20 years these jokers have been running the banks and the economy, do you really like what you see? This, unfortunately, isn't even a Repub/Dem thing. I see the same guys no matter what party is in office.

Yup.

The problem with this and every other society on earth that mankind have ever invented is this...

Once a class of people has attained enough power within that society that class, while possibly having their own internacine battles, are basically on the same page about the way things are supposed to work.

If I suggested, for example, something truly radical, it would not merely effect the lives of the Republican insiders. It would effect the sweeet benefits that being an insider gives to the Dem insiders as well.

Let me give you TWO examples...

A 100% inheritence tax. You think any insider or scion on earth is going to buy into that?

Of course not.

But that is, in one generation the guarantee of a meritocracy, folks.

Nobody in power wants a meritocracy, believe me, nobody.

Another example...the FED.

In a truly just society, one without class distictions, every citizen should be able to go to the FEDs to borrow money and all of us, shoud be able to borrow (depanding on our credit ratings) at EXACTLY the same rate of interest.

You think
EITHER POLITICAL PAERTY is going to call for the d4eath of the BANKING CLASS?

I mean seriously, do you?

Of course not.

The illusion that there is a significant difference in thinking between a Republican insider and a Democratic insider misleads many of the partisan nitwits, but if you look at the issues that matter to the insiders?

There truly isn't a dime's worth of difference between them.

They have the same advantages, they send their kids to the same schools, they belong to the same clubs, they vacation in the same places and their expectations and prejusices about outsiders is identical.

 

[Esta_PG]

Why are you surprised?

Did I say surprised? I hope I didn't. I meant unsettled. It's a dangerous thing to inspire new voters and then back pedal. As a traveler, seeing how many people were so convinced Obama would be a new kind of politician, it could be very, very damaging to any Democrat's political aspirations in 2, 4, 6, or 8 years if Obama alienates the younger voters that won him the election.

At the same time, as a voter never won over by the Obama magic ("Bipartisanship"? What evidence, ever, did Obama give of bipartisanship in his record?) it isn't particularly surprising. Disturbing, but not surprising.

 

[Esta_PG]

Sitting at home all day on your ass, you should watch the news. Obama just had a press conference and he seems ready to tackle the housing, unemployment, healthcare, war, deficit, economy problems all right away.

The nation is an awfully big test-tube for experimenting on "housing, unemployment, healthcare [sic.],...deficit, economy problems". That's why governor's are given the "executive experience" label; they generally have already tested approaches to those problems in a smaller, easier-to-remedy-mistakes-in situations. For all the flak that Bill Clinton has received (or Ronald Reagan, or Jimmy Carter), they had already seen some of the problems they faced domestically and had approaches to them. And their approaches worked more often than not. Much of the criticism I would level at Carter, Reagan, or Clinton (or all three, really) would be misguided foreign policy, not ill-managed domestic policy.

Announcing a plan is one thing; enacting that plan something else entirely. I for one don't look forward to living life as a human guinea pig for Obama's economic policy.

 

[Zoomie1980]

I think the obamalama has already broken two promises of "change"

1.. taking all the clintonistas on board


2. he's backing away from taxing the rich! lol



oh my my my oh my!

He won't keep any of them. They never do. Not because they don't believe in them or want to, they simply get smacked in the face with reality and realize they simply lack the ability or power to deliver.

Obama never really intended to remove the tax cuts. He might let them lapse but that's about it.

There will be no health care reform because they've already given all the money they could have used to do something, away.

Most of the troops in Iraq are NOT coming home, they are just getting redeployed.

Oh, there will be social things that don't cost anything, like removing a lot of barriers to abortion and stem-cell research....issues that never really mattered in the context of federal government scope anyway.

And he's adamantly opposed to gay marriage. And all those loony left nutballs are already screaming betrayal....

 

[Zoomie1980]

More bull. He is still talking about repealing the trickle down/getting pissed on taxes for the rich.

No, he is most certainly NOT talking that, at all...

 

[Zoomie1980]

Of course WallStreet doesn't like him.

They have too much power. We've been saying that all along.

That's why we're going to end the Federal Reserve. Just renig on the debt. Watch. Fuck them. They've been raping us for years. And Haloburton's assets will be frozen. They moved most of their money to Dubai, but they still have billions left here in the USA. Blackwater too. Any defense contractor that robbed the treasury will have their assets frozen/siezed. Chaney will be indicted. It'll be great!!! Paulson will go to prison too.

LOL!!! And you know this....how?

Sucks really bad to be you....

 

[Zoomie1980]

I guess it's never really occured to anyone that Obama might be "playing nice" until he takes office?

He knows the economy is in trouble, if he tries to play hardball before he even takes the oath of office what kind of cooperation do you think the Bush administration is going to give him? NONE, nada, zip!

So far his appointments have all been people wholly qualified for the positions they've been slated to inhabit. I see no reason to bitch and moan about tapping into the talents of people who obviously knew what they were doing in the past.

Keep hope alive....

Virtually all his appointments, especially his financial appointments are all the very same Wall Streeters and Clinton retreads that got us into this mess. When Bush got elected they all went back to their Investment Banks while Bush's people left them, not Bush's people will go back to Wall St and current Wall St crowd that got dumped after Clinton are now rotating back in.

Bottom line, these are ALL the same insiders and operatives that have been there forever! "Change" is simply not in the cards. All your beloved health care reform just got loaned to AIG and the banks....

 

[Zoomie1980]

How long before the current sack of shit that Bush is leaving will be all blamed on Obama? All you folks who already lost your jobs, that's Obama's fault.



No the Foxobots will continue to drink their kool aid the Ruperts' Well.

They have never been fair and balanced. It's the right wing nooze machine.

The party registration percentages of the major network and cable news editorial and reporting outlets according the Pew....

ABC: 92% Dem
CBS: 94% Dem
NBC: 100% Dem
CNN: 88% Dem
MSNBC: 100% Dem

Fox News: 52% Dem.


Who is most likely to be fair and balanced?

 

[Cecilie1200]

Well, well, well. Looks like NOW the Obama team is backing away slowly from their position on Gitmo, too. Look for even more revelations on this front in the future.

US Labor Against the War : Post-Guantánamo: A New Detention Law?

As a presidential candidate, Senator Barack Obama sketched the broad outlines of a plan to close the detention center at Guantánamo Bay, Cuba: try detainees in American courts and reject the Bush administration’s military commission system.

Now, as Mr. Obama moves closer to assuming responsibility for Guantánamo, his pledge to close the detention center is bringing to the fore thorny questions under consideration by his advisers. They include where Guantánamo’s detainees could be held in this country, how many might be sent home and a matter that people with ties to the Obama transition team say is worrying them most: What if some detainees are acquitted or cannot be prosecuted at all?

That concern is at the center of a debate among national security, human rights and legal experts that has intensified since the election. Even some liberals are arguing that to deal realistically with terrorism, the new administration should seek Congressional authority for preventive detention of terrorism suspects deemed too dangerous to release even if they cannot be successfully prosecuted.

“You can’t be a purist and say there’s never any circumstance in which a democratic society can preventively detain someone,” said one civil liberties lawyer, David D. Cole, a Georgetown law professor who has been a critic of the Bush administration.

Although the nation has long had limited legal procedures for detaining dangerous people who have not been convicted of a crime, the issue has become particularly controversial in the context of Guantánamo, where some detainees have been held for almost seven years without being charged.

Whether the Obama administration should push for a preventive detention law has inspired “a very hot and serious debate,” said Ken Gude, a national security scholar at the liberal Center for American Progress, adding, “I’ve had conversations with progressives who think it is a good idea and conservatives who think it’s a terrible idea.”

The president-elect’s transition office would not comment on whether that idea was even under discussion. But human rights groups have been mounting arguments to counter pressure that they say is building on Mr. Obama to show toughness, perhaps by echoing the Bush administration’s insistence that some detainees may need to be held indefinitely.

The international law of warfare provides authority for governments to hold captured enemy fighters until the completion of a conflict. Tens of thousands of German and Italian prisoners of war were held inside the United States during World War II.

But particularly inasmuch as the Bush administration invoked that authority as a basis for its much-criticized detention policies, a move by Mr. Obama to seek explicit authorization for indefinite detention without trial would be seen by some of his supporters as a betrayal.

 

[editec]

The nation is an awfully big test-tube for experimenting on "housing, unemployment, healthcare [sic.],...deficit, economy problems". That's why governor's are given the "executive experience" label; they generally have already tested approaches to those problems in a smaller, easier-to-remedy-mistakes-in situations. For all the flak that Bill Clinton has received (or Ronald Reagan, or Jimmy Carter), they had already seen some of the problems they faced domestically and had approaches to them. And their approaches worked more often than not. Much of the criticism I would level at Carter, Reagan, or Clinton (or all three, really) would be misguided foreign policy, not ill-managed domestic policy.

Announcing a plan is one thing; enacting that plan something else entirely. I for one don't look forward to living life as a human guinea pig for Obama's economic policy.

Did you enjoy living as a guinea pig during the Bush experiments?

Every change in policy and every change in law is a leap of faith, chum.

 

[editec]

Keep hope alive....

Virtually all his appointments, especially his financial appointments are all the very same Wall Streeters and Clinton retreads that got us into this mess. When Bush got elected they all went back to their Investment Banks while Bush's people left them, not Bush's people will go back to Wall St and current Wall St crowd that got dumped after Clinton are now rotating back in.

Bottom line, these are ALL the same insiders and operatives that have been there forever! "Change" is simply not in the cards. All your beloved health care reform just got loaned to AIG and the banks....

CHANGE is inevitable.

If Obama did NOTHING change would be FASTER than if he TRIED practically anything.

What you people apparently do not yet understand is that Obama and Congress are simply trying to keep the whole damned world economy from collapsing.

Yeah, that's right, collapsing.

This is NOT your father's recession, folks.

 

[Old Rocks]

CHANGE is inevitable.

If Obama did NOTHING change would be FASTER than if he TRIED practically anything.

What you people apparently do not yet understand is that Obama and Congress are simply trying to keep the whole damned world economy from collapsing.

Yeah, that's right, collapsing.

This is NOT your father's recession, folks.

I work in a steel mill. The guys on the floor, particularly the older men, have seen this coming for the last 4 years. Much of the talk has been about what their grandparents did to survive in the First Great Depression. If the efforts being made now fail, I very much fear that we will see the Second Great Depression.

There was time, after the 2004 elections, to have headed this off. In fact, there were Republican Senators, Hagel cheif among them, that attempted to do that. However, the admins boys stopped that cold, using over 2 million dollars from Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae to do it. There is much shared blame between the political parties for the present debacle, but it is the Republican Administration that actively prevented measures being taken when they would have been effective.

So, perhaps with a little injustice, this will be remembered as the Second Great Republican Depression. I hope that I am wrong, and the measures being taken now will hold the loss to just a severe recession, but I am sure that there are yet some heavy shoes coming down on the economy. If this slides into a massive deflation, then we will see huge numbers of homeowners losing everything in this nation. I am not speaking of people with ARMs, but people with good mortgages and 50% or more equity at present. If there is no income, there will be no mortgage payments.

Just as in the last Great Depression, this will bring on major changes in attitudes. A Universal Health Care System with become possible, as people that have always had coverage through their employment join the tens of millions that presently have no health insurance. The upper management perks and pay will get even further examination, as people realize these people are just hirelings, also. Why do they get golden parachutes and tens of millions of dollars for failure? There will be much more government regulation of business practices. Regulations brought on by the greed that has caused this debacle. Yes, more socialism. And what is bailing out our major businesses to the tune of trillions of dollars, but socialism? We are spending taxpayers money to support the means of production, and the flow of capital. That is plain old socialism. Since we have had to do this to save the system, then we need to make sure that this money comes back to the people that have bailed out the system, the citizens. No longer will the excuse that we cannot afford health care for all our citizens fly. The gates have been opened, and it is a new day. The wealth of this nation will be shared on a more equitable basis.

 

[Cecilie1200]

I work in a steel mill. The guys on the floor, particularly the older men, have seen this coming for the last 4 years. Much of the talk has been about what their grandparents did to survive in the First Great Depression. If the efforts being made now fail, I very much fear that we will see the Second Great Depression.

There was time, after the 2004 elections, to have headed this off. In fact, there were Republican Senators, Hagel cheif among them, that attempted to do that. However, the admins boys stopped that cold, using over 2 million dollars from Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae to do it. There is much shared blame between the political parties for the present debacle, but it is the Republican Administration that actively prevented measures being taken when they would have been effective.

So, perhaps with a little injustice, this will be remembered as the Second Great Republican Depression. I hope that I am wrong, and the measures being taken now will hold the loss to just a severe recession, but I am sure that there are yet some heavy shoes coming down on the economy. If this slides into a massive deflation, then we will see huge numbers of homeowners losing everything in this nation. I am not speaking of people with ARMs, but people with good mortgages and 50% or more equity at present. If there is no income, there will be no mortgage payments.

Just as in the last Great Depression, this will bring on major changes in attitudes. A Universal Health Care System with become possible, as people that have always had coverage through their employment join the tens of millions that presently have no health insurance. The upper management perks and pay will get even further examination, as people realize these people are just hirelings, also. Why do they get golden parachutes and tens of millions of dollars for failure? There will be much more government regulation of business practices. Regulations brought on by the greed that has caused this debacle. Yes, more socialism. And what is bailing out our major businesses to the tune of trillions of dollars, but socialism? We are spending taxpayers money to support the means of production, and the flow of capital. That is plain old socialism. Since we have had to do this to save the system, then we need to make sure that this money comes back to the people that have bailed out the system, the citizens. No longer will the excuse that we cannot afford health care for all our citizens fly. The gates have been opened, and it is a new day. The wealth of this nation will be shared on a more equitable basis.

Well, this post certainly sounds like a recipe for transforming an economic downturn into a second Great Depression. You must really want to relive your grandparents' salad days.

 

[Old Rocks]

Well, this post certainly sounds like a recipe for transforming an economic downturn into a second Great Depression. You must really want to relive your grandparents' salad days.

Cecilie, the present question is not whether the present economic downturn will be transformed into a Second Great Depression, but whether the present incipient Great Depression can be turned into just a severe reccession. The problem for you Conservatives is that it will be remembered as your Depression, just as the first Great Depression was remembered as a Republican depression.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Cecilie, the present question is not whether the present economic downturn will be transformed into a Second Great Depression, but whether the present incipient Great Depression can be turned into just a severe reccession. The problem for you Conservatives is that it will be remembered as your Depression, just as the first Great Depression was remembered as a Republican depression.

"Present incipient Great Depression"? You know, they have treatments for your brand of excessive, unrealistic pessimism. We aren't even technically, officially in a RECESSION, let alone a depression, let alone a Great Depression. We also have virtually none of the conditions that precipitated that depression.

The problem for you leftists is that you desperately WANT a bad economy, so that you can eagerly rush in and force your utterly unpalatable and ignorant ideas on the rest of us, completely ignoring the fact that it has been, each time, a moving away from conservativism and toward your sort of idiocy that has led us into economic disaster every time in our history.

And here you are again. Oh, boy! The economy is having a downturn. What a perfect time to expand the government even more! We'll just pretend that that wasn't EXACTLY what made the Great Depression last as long as it did. As long as we sling enough mud and try to blame it on conservatives, who held no responsibility for it, that should be enough.

YOU created the Great Depression. YOU created this current economic downturn. YOU are exacerbating it. YOU are hoping for it to become even worse. YOU are recommending policies that have the ability to make it a depression. It's all YOU.