Prohibition

[uscitizen]

I liked the part where the number of Rabbi's increased tenfold because of the prohibition exemption for them.

Now I know why our Rabbi is one

 

[MarcATL]

I am a huge fan of Ken Burns. No one can bring history alive quite like he does, Starting this past Sunday, his much awaited documentary on Prohibition aired, and is to continue it's run in three parts. I highly recommend you seek out your local PBS station and find out when it's shown in your area.

One of the things that is glaringly obvious as one views this recounting of America's failed morality experiment known as Prohibition is just how many parallels there are to today, in so many areas of our political world.

I'm not necessarily referring to The failed War on Drugs, where it sees the most direct parallel - this thread isn't really about that - it's more about the discourse we engage in when it comes to legislating morality, what we do with our bodies, single-issue voters, wedge issues provoked by the politicians and interest groups -- the raw politics of righteousness, and, of course, the unintended consequences.

Ken Burns sums up:

"You begin to see that human nature never changes. History, therefore, becomes a very effective way to have a good perspective on the events of today...We talk about civil discourse and how it's broken down, the lack of compromise. Well, Prohibition is a lack of compromise, civil discourse breaking down, and people becoming intransigent and inflexible.

"By looking at the unintended consequences of Prohibition, it's possible to actually look at our present day and perhaps see the best way out of the problems."
​

It might surprise some to know that both liberal and conservative /democrat and republican segments were "drys" and both were also "wets" - them term used to describe those at the time who were for or against. Though it was led by the progressive movement, it was also hailed by evangelicals, fundamentalists and social conservatives who had the ideal that if you could rid the country of alcohol, it would perfect our human nature, it would perfect our society - finally; crime, domestic abuse, debauchery, and the hundred other ills intoxication promoted would bring us collectively to our better angels, and make us a truly moral nation. At long last.

It didn't work, of course. The things that brought the drys, the 'noble moralists' who held an absolutist non-compromising approach, to enshrine a restriction on human nature into our Constitution, to their dream day, were factors such as WWI, high immigration, a xenophobic fervor which swept the country about that time, people who felt they had lost their country and wanted to take it back, who was a "Real American," - amongst other things, like tax revenue and how we funded our government (liquor taxes accounted for about a third of all federal revenues prior to 1913).
It is a subject truly packed with so much of today.

I'd like to ask the forum members
1. If they have seen the premier of this documentary...(last night was the first 2 hours of the 6 hour series, to be followed tonight and tomorrow) and/or if they intend to watch it

2.If so (or even if not) -- what parallels they see in the social issue factions represented here, in the microcosm of Messageboard debate, and the macro of those wedge issues in Washington Politics in general - to that era in our history when this freedom loving nation banned something that had been a part of human nature since the beginning of time.

3. Will both sides bitch and moan it's the other side that causes all the problems?

I'll probably download it months down the road and watch it at my leisure.

The main thing that prohibition brought is a flourishing black market and organized crime and gangsterism.

Speaking of which, are you watching "Boardwalk Empire?"

Two words for you on that....."WOW!!!"

 

[paperview]

I liked the part where the number of Rabbi's increased tenfold because of the prohibition exemption for them.

Now I know why our Rabbi is one

Yeah, I found that part fascinating too.
There were rabbi's going by the name of O'Malley and O'Shaunasy....Makes you wonder about how family genealogists have fun with those little historical tidbits...

 

[Mr. Shaman]

On the revenue end of of just how much alcohol helped build and fund this country -- This was a surprising statistic:

"Before the modern personal income tax in 1913, Uncle Sam relied mainly on customs duties and liquor
taxation. From 1870 through 1912 receipts from these two taxes alone accounted for more than two-thirds of revenues (and in many years accounted for more than 75 percent). Liquor taxes trailed only customs duties as the largest single source of revenue during the half-century preceding the modern income tax, with liquor taxes accounting for about a third of federal revenues." [http://www.fee.org/pdf/the-freeman/0801Boudreaux.pdf]

That's a pretty shocking number. The great Godly nation many look back on when they imagine the devout, punctilious world of our great grandfathers was drunk most the time!

OK, maybe an exaggeration, (then again, maybe not....) but the love of booze has been a huge part of our history, and what kept the coffers filled. It was in good portion because of the Income Tax, (alleviated the loss of alcohol revenue), WWI, the demonization of immigrants (most of the big brewers were German), Irish, Italians, and this desire to legislate morality as the magic bullet to the ills of society -- the Prohibitionists were able to pass the Amendment.

When it was presented in Congress, the wets went along with it - with the condition it would have an expiration date of 7 years to get ratification - cause they figured no way it would happen. The drys had 84 months to get it passed. They did it in 13.

It was a truly amazing perfect storm of fear and enforced morality that brought it about ...and man - did it divide the country.

....And, "conservatives" have always assumed gangs & "drive-bys" were a creation o' the current drug-war.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yrv1roq_gBw]Sonny Corleone Gets Whacked-Godfather - YouTube[/ame]
*
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSN1XsCXpt0]Tales of the Gun - Gangster Guns - YouTube[/ame]
*


Does being pro-gun MAKE you crazy.....or, was Wayne LaPierre BORN-that-way???

​

 

[paperview]

I am a huge fan of Ken Burns. No one can bring history alive quite like he does, Starting this past Sunday, his much awaited documentary on Prohibition aired, and is to continue it's run in three parts. I highly recommend you seek out your local PBS station and find out when it's shown in your area.

One of the things that is glaringly obvious as one views this recounting of America's failed morality experiment known as Prohibition is just how many parallels there are to today, in so many areas of our political world.

I'm not necessarily referring to The failed War on Drugs, where it sees the most direct parallel - this thread isn't really about that - it's more about the discourse we engage in when it comes to legislating morality, what we do with our bodies, single-issue voters, wedge issues provoked by the politicians and interest groups -- the raw politics of righteousness, and, of course, the unintended consequences.

Ken Burns sums up:

"You begin to see that human nature never changes. History, therefore, becomes a very effective way to have a good perspective on the events of today...We talk about civil discourse and how it's broken down, the lack of compromise. Well, Prohibition is a lack of compromise, civil discourse breaking down, and people becoming intransigent and inflexible.

"By looking at the unintended consequences of Prohibition, it's possible to actually look at our present day and perhaps see the best way out of the problems."
​

It might surprise some to know that both liberal and conservative /democrat and republican segments were "drys" and both were also "wets" - them term used to describe those at the time who were for or against. Though it was led by the progressive movement, it was also hailed by evangelicals, fundamentalists and social conservatives who had the ideal that if you could rid the country of alcohol, it would perfect our human nature, it would perfect our society - finally; crime, domestic abuse, debauchery, and the hundred other ills intoxication promoted would bring us collectively to our better angels, and make us a truly moral nation. At long last.

It didn't work, of course. The things that brought the drys, the 'noble moralists' who held an absolutist non-compromising approach, to enshrine a restriction on human nature into our Constitution, to their dream day, were factors such as WWI, high immigration, a xenophobic fervor which swept the country about that time, people who felt they had lost their country and wanted to take it back, who was a "Real American," - amongst other things, like tax revenue and how we funded our government (liquor taxes accounted for about a third of all federal revenues prior to 1913).
It is a subject truly packed with so much of today.

I'd like to ask the forum members
1. If they have seen the premier of this documentary...(last night was the first 2 hours of the 6 hour series, to be followed tonight and tomorrow) and/or if they intend to watch it

2.If so (or even if not) -- what parallels they see in the social issue factions represented here, in the microcosm of Messageboard debate, and the macro of those wedge issues in Washington Politics in general - to that era in our history when this freedom loving nation banned something that had been a part of human nature since the beginning of time.

3. Will both sides bitch and moan it's the other side that causes all the problems?

I'll probably download it months down the road and watch it at my leisure.

The main thing that prohibition brought is a flourishing black market and organized crime and gangsterism.

Speaking of which, are you watching "Boardwalk Empire?"

Two words for you on that....."WOW!!!"

In the many interviews with Ken Burns, he mentions that - how he had no idea about the show "Boardwalk Empire" when he was working on his series, but it all coalesced so nicely.

It truly is a part of history few have explored as much as it needs to be explored.

Even Burns said - as someone who knows his history pretty damn good - it blew him away to learn some of the things he did during the making and how he discovered it was now, for him, one of the most significant parts of history, after slavery.

It's great people are studying it now much more, and reminding us how dangerous it is when people get behind a "moral" cause to the extent of enshrining the loss of liberty in the constitution.

 

[MarcATL]

I've always been a fan of thinking for myself. The day I need others to formulate my opinions is the day I join the DNC.

Yeah....we've seen folks like you formulating (on-the-fly)......

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lj3iNxZ8Dww]Miss Teen USA 2007 - South Carolina answers a question - YouTube[/ame]
*
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zeMypXCUWMw&feature=relmfu]CNN Laughs It Up Over Sarah Palin Interview - YouTube[/ame]​

ROTFLMBAO!!!

Let's not forget these recent hits...




[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZXQE834MYY]String of Perry Flubs Sparks Doubts - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Mr. Shaman]

Ken Burns's Prohibition -- coming to PBS | Sneak Peek | PBS - YouTube

Welcome to

PROHIBITION II!

(Thanks to "conservatives" & Big Bu$ine$$.)


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fYEcgsFT3oE]Grass History Of Cannabis Marijuana [1/6] - YouTube[/ame]​

 

[Mr. Shaman]

I was watching it and drew some of the same parallels as you did to current day politics.
I also could see some of the same tactics being used by the greenie wienies today as they used back then.
Especially when I heard the part about getting to the kids while they were young, b/c they will soon be voters.

Just Say No to D.A.R.E.

​