Professors Are Afraid of Their Students?

[Bern80]

Thank goodness for small miracles!

So would of course agree then that it is not important for Harvard to be teaching critical thinking or expose students to all sides of arguments.

 

[Steerpike]

So would of course agree then that it is not important for Harvard to be teaching critical thinking or expose students to all sides of arguments.

Bern, I agree that colleges and universities are very heavily leaning left in terms of faculty ideology, but it is a fallacy to assume that a left-leaning person can't objectively present all sides. I had some very liberal professors who did an excellent job of presenting the conservative view as well, and encouraged students to debate it. They didn't penalize those who disagreed with them.

I also had some professors who were quite nasty with those who didn't adopt their left-wing views and did penalize grades accordingly.

In the case of the former, you can get a perfectly objective education. Same is true of conservative profs who present both sides.

 

[Bern80]

Bern, I agree that colleges and universities are very heavily leaning left in terms of faculty ideology, but it is a fallacy to assume that a left-leaning person can't objectively present all sides. I had some very liberal professors who did an excellent job of presenting the conservative view as well, and encouraged students to debate it. They didn't penalize those who disagreed with them.

I also had some professors who were quite nasty with those who didn't adopt their left-wing views and did penalize grades accordingly.

In the case of the former, you can get a perfectly objective education. Same is true of conservative profs who present both sides.

This is more basic math than it is a debate as to whether liberal profs can teach in an unbiased fashion.

The fact is academia is overwhelming comprised of liberals. Given that fact, regardless of a teachers objectivity, the fact also is the majority of what is taught will also have a left wing bias. Think of it terms of balancing a scale. You have a hundred teachers, 75% are left wingers. Maybe some can be truly objective maybe some aren't. There are three places you can divide these people on the scale. left bias, middle objectivity, and right bias. Given that 75% of the group is leftist the best that group can do is try to be objective, that is as far right on the scale as you can put them is in the middle. Just to get the scales to balance' that is for net sum of time being spread out equally over all arguments, fully two thirds of those self-identified democrats would have to be teaching completely objectively. What do you think the odds of that are?

The classes I've mentioned, Animal rights, peace and justice, etc. the classes, the very titles of the classes are one side of an argument.

 

[CharlestonChad]

Colleges used to be about becoming qualified in advanced academic skills required by business. Critical thinking was surely a part of that, but if I'm hiring engineers, programmers, or economists I want kids who actually KNOW engineering, programming concepts and economic fundementals, not kids loaded with a pile of useless mush like "women's studies".

There is a reason so may "college educated" kids can't find gainful employment after graduation....they majored in CRAP that no business finds useful.

I think you're behind the times by a few decades. No longer are the best employees going from college to the workplace. Now graduate school has become the norm for the best qualified workers. If you're looking for the most qualified candidates, then you have to scout out talent from the graduate schools.

College has ALWAYS taught elective courses like "womens studies", "religion" and "urban studies". And again to show that you're out of touch with reality, how do you expect an engineering student to be learning more engineering? Classes build on themselves. A student can only take so much engineering classes at a time. To fill up their schedule, that's where the electives come. And they are also meant to make someone a more well rounded student. Employers put a lot of weight on being a well rounded employee, which is why you don't simply get a job b/c you had a good GPA in college.

 

[Zoomie1980]

I think you're behind the times by a few decades. No longer are the best employees going from college to the workplace. Now graduate school has become the norm for the best qualified workers. If you're looking for the most qualified candidates, then you have to scout out talent from the graduate schools.

College has ALWAYS taught elective courses like "womens studies", "religion" and "urban studies". And again to show that you're out of touch with reality, how do you expect an engineering student to be learning more engineering? Classes build on themselves. A student can only take so much engineering classes at a time. To fill up their schedule, that's where the electives come. And they are also meant to make someone a more well rounded student. Employers put a lot of weight on being a well rounded employee, which is why you don't simply get a job b/c you had a good GPA in college.

Most of the garbage that passes as college credit these days are to either suck tuition money from students too stupid to know better or to hide atheletes in to keep them NCAA eligable.

And no, I hire hundreds of people a year for a large, national firm, I am quite well aware of what is going on in our colleges and universities these days. It's why I opt for so much outsourcing anymore. We simply do not have enough of our own kids taking the hard majors anymore that we need...so we go to India or China where they are abundant

 

[CharlestonChad]

Most of the garbage that passes as college credit these days are to either suck tuition money from students too stupid to know better or to hide atheletes in to keep them NCAA eligable.

And no, I hire hundreds of people a year for a large, national firm, I am quite well aware of what is going on in our colleges and universities these days. It's why I opt for so much outsourcing anymore. We simply do not have enough of our own kids taking the hard majors anymore that we need...so we go to India or China where they are abundant

There are more honors students in China, then students in America. Outsourcing is inevitable, now that techonology allows it. It really has nothing to do with the American universities.

As for the topic we're discussing, like I said before, electives let a student become well rounded in between the time they are focusing on their majors. You can't learn advanced engineering before basic engineering, so while you take basic engineering, you might as well take a few courses to get a more liberal education. American schools are still producing the best students in the world, so there's not too much we can complain about anyways.

 

[Zoomie1980]

There are more honors students in China, then students in America. Outsourcing is inevitable, now that techonology allows it. It really has nothing to do with the American universities.

As for the topic we're discussing, like I said before, electives let a student become well rounded in between the time they are focusing on their majors. You can't learn advanced engineering before basic engineering, so while you take basic engineering, you might as well take a few courses to get a more liberal education. American schools are still producing the best students in the world, so there's not too much we can complain about anyways.

We don't produce anywhere near enough of the kinds of graduates business really needs. So many student's waste their parent's money on worthless degrees no one values. That's why so many college graduates end up as cashiers at WalMart or bank tellers. This country needs college graduates in the disciplines that business actually uses, economics, accounting and marketing, for sure but by far more engineers, technology disciplines. We'll train our own managers and business analysts. The last thing we need are English, , History, Sociologoy, Fine Arts, etc...majors...totally useless to us. And myself and my colleagues could care less what electives they took....if they want to throw their money away on mush, fine, but we don't care....