CDZ Produce, mooch, or loot.

[usfan]

These are the basic ways humans survive. We either produce our own necessities of life, by working for them, we leech off of someone else's labors, or we take them from others by force. A healthy society must have a large number of industrious, hard working producers to provide the network of necessities: sustenance & protection. When a society breaks down, & too many moochers or looters run rampant, the producers cannot work hard enough to provide for them, or they become tired of being exploited & rebel against the system (or lack thereof) that has arisen.

1. If you are a responsible producer, you will have a constant battle to fend off moochers & looters. Hopefully, you will live in a time & place where your life & property are protected with sound collective agencies, provided for that purpose by all the producers. But, if moochers & looters gain control of the protection agencies, they will use them against you, & you will be exploited until you & the other producers revolt & cast out the moochers & looters. This is a constant pattern throughout human history, & will no doubt continue in the future.
2. If you are a moocher, you run the risk of wearing out those you mooch from. It is not a dependable method of survival, as you rely on the generosity of the producers, or the benevolence of the looters to share with you from their plunder.
3. If you are a looter, you rely on having superior power or deception to intimidate & fleece the working producers. But if they pool their resources & defeat you, you might be killed in the struggle. It is also an unreliable way to survive.

Producing, with the force of law to protect your labors, has traditionally been the best & most reliable method of human survival. When a culture has a strong base of producers, they tend to be stronger, wealthier, & better suited to survive. Moochers & looters tend to be short lived, as the working producers tire of the excess, useless baggage, & reorganize the system to better serve themselves.

The challenge is for the producers to craft a system of protection, but not let it be controlled by moochers & looters, as they will use the system to plunder the producers. Typically, the producers just stage a revolution from time to time, and the leaders of the revolutions promise to provide peace & justice for the working producers to live & raise their families. They promise to make minimal demands on the property of the producers. But they always degenerate back into a mooching, looting system where law becomes an instrument of plunder, not justice.

The only solution is for the producers to keep a tight rein on the system, provide checks & balances, & a rotating workforce of public servants, so none of them become entrenched & entitled in an elite power structure. This was the attempt of the American experiment, & it worked for a while, until those who got used to power used this power to plunder the producers, as they have been doing increasingly for the last few decades.

So an ideal system for a productive, healthy society is this:
1. Minimal demands for the agency of justice. Minimal taxes so the producers keep more of their labors.
2. Swift, efficient justice to deter looters, foreign or domestic.
3. Maximum freedom for the producers to enjoy the fruits of their labors, which provide the most opportunity, prosperity, & abundance for all.
4. Checks & balances in the justice system, so that moochers or looters do not gain control.
5. Rotating citizen representatives, managing the system so moochers or looters do not gain control.
6. Strict laws to punish corruption in the collective agencies.

These things will cost the producers the least, while maximizing what they have earned & worked for. This is a recipe for a healthy, prosperous culture. But whenever moochers & looters gain control of the collective institutions, they use govt power to plunder the producers, & build a system of dependency & injustice, until it collapses under its own corruption.

Any thoughts or rebuttals? Am i missing anything?

 

[Sonny Clark]

These are the basic ways humans survive. We either produce our own necessities of life, by working for them, we leech off of someone else's labors, or we take them from others by force. A healthy society must have a large number of industrious, hard working producers to provide the network of necessities: sustenance & protection. When a society breaks down, & too many moochers or looters run rampant, the producers cannot work hard enough to provide for them, or they become tired of being exploited & rebel against the system (or lack thereof) that has arisen.

1. If you are a responsible producer, you will have a constant battle to fend off moochers & looters. Hopefully, you will live in a time & place where your life & property are protected with sound collective agencies, provided for that purpose by all the producers. But, if moochers & looters gain control of the protection agencies, they will use them against you, & you will be exploited until you & the other producers revolt & cast out the moochers & looters. This is a constant pattern throughout human history, & will no doubt continue in the future.
2. If you are a moocher, you run the risk of wearing out those you mooch from. It is not a dependable method of survival, as you rely on the generosity of the producers, or the benevolence of the looters to share with you from their plunder.
3. If you are a looter, you rely on having superior power or deception to intimidate & fleece the working producers. But if they pool their resources & defeat you, you might be killed in the struggle. It is also an unreliable way to survive.

Producing, with the force of law to protect your labors, has traditionally been the best & most reliable method of human survival. When a culture has a strong base of producers, they tend to be stronger, wealthier, & better suited to survive. Moochers & looters tend to be short lived, as the working producers tire of the excess, useless baggage, & reorganize the system to better serve themselves.

The challenge is for the producers to craft a system of protection, but not let it be controlled by moochers & looters, as they will use the system to plunder the producers. Typically, the producers just stage a revolution from time to time, and the leaders of the revolutions promise to provide peace & justice for the working producers to live & raise their families. They promise to make minimal demands on the property of the producers. But they always degenerate back into a mooching, looting system where law becomes an instrument of plunder, not justice.

The only solution is for the producers to keep a tight rein on the system, provide checks & balances, & a rotating workforce of public servants, so none of them become entrenched & entitled in an elite power structure. This was the attempt of the American experiment, & it worked for a while, until those who got used to power used this power to plunder the producers, as they have been doing increasingly for the last few decades.

So an ideal system for a productive, healthy society is this:
1. Minimal demands for the agency of justice. Minimal taxes so the producers keep more of their labors.
2. Swift, efficient justice to deter looters, foreign or domestic.
3. Maximum freedom for the producers to enjoy the fruits of their labors, which provide the most opportunity, prosperity, & abundance for all.
4. Checks & balances in the justice system, so that moochers or looters do not gain control.
5. Rotating citizen representatives, managing the system so moochers or looters do not gain control.
6. Strict laws to punish corruption in the collective agencies.

These things will cost the producers the least, while maximizing what they have earned & worked for. This is a recipe for a healthy, prosperous culture. But whenever moochers & looters gain control of the collective institutions, they use govt power to plunder the producers, & build a system of dependency & injustice, until it collapses under its own corruption.

Any thoughts or rebuttals? Am i missing anything?

All of the situations that you have mentioned and itemized, have been discussed and debated for many years, probably many decades now. Yes, they are problems that need addressing, and they are problems that need fair and just solutions. But, the solutions require fair minded leaders and representatives to legislate and enact. And, since we have a self-serving corrupt government seated in Washington, and have had for many decades now, the chances for positive, meaningful, and beneficial solutions are slim and none. Remember, "The Washington Brotherhood" is an entity unto itself, answerable to no one except itself. Also, you have to realize that voters are not going to elect pro-America representatives to serve in government, therefore the solutions are fantasy and wishful thinking.

We are a much divided nation and citizenry. The division keeps us from fighting for what's right and just, and beneficial to the "whole". We're all pulling in different directions, with different agendas, and with entirely different game plans. In order to accomplish, and to establish, what's fair, just, and right, we have to be united and on the same page of the playbook. Unfortunately, there's little hope of that happening in the foreseeable future. We have way too many citizens afflicted with "Blind Patriotism", and they seem hell-bent on remaining afflicted. We have die hard Republicans, and we have die hard Democrats, and each group honestly believes that "Their Party" is the right and correct party to lead and govern this nation and her citizens. They fail to understand and to realize that neither party is for anything except self-service and the pursuit of power and complete control.

Yes, we do have many problems, but those problems will not be addressed nor corrected as long as we, the voters, allow those in charge to exert their will, and not the will of the people.

 

[Iceweasel]

Any thoughts or rebuttals? Am i missing anything?

Yes, the moochers are entitled to your earnings because, well it's in the Constitution somewhere and besides it's compassionate. If you are forced to feed the non productives in society it proves that society is evolved to the point it no longer labels people as productive or not. Such labeling hurts the feelings of the slovenly and can only be seen as an attempt at shaming so the greedy can keep more of their rewards from winning life's lottery.

 

[Iceweasel]

And here's exhibit A. If you want to keep a little more of your earnings you are a blind partisan hell bent on destroying the nation so you can afford college for your son or buy a new car.

Oddly, it's the blindest, most partisan hacks that make these accusations.

We are a much divided nation and citizenry. The division keeps us from fighting for what's right and just, and beneficial to the "whole". We're all pulling in different directions, with different agendas, and with entirely different game plans. In order to accomplish, and to establish, what's fair, just, and right, we have to be united and on the same page of the playbook. Unfortunately, there's little hope of that happening in the foreseeable future. We have way too many citizens afflicted with "Blind Patriotism", and they seem hell-bent on remaining afflicted. We have die hard Republicans, and we have die hard Democrats, and each group honestly believes that "Their Party" is the right and correct party to lead and govern this nation and her citizens. They fail to understand and to realize that neither party is for anything except self-service and the pursuit of power and complete control.

Yes, we do have many problems, but those problems will not be addressed nor corrected as long as we, the voters, allow those in charge to exert their will, and not the will of the people.

 

[Sonny Clark]

And here's exhibit A. If you want to keep a little more of your earnings you are a blind partisan hell bent on destroying the nation so you can afford college for your son or buy a new car.

Oddly, it's the blindest, most partisan hacks that make these accusations.

We are a much divided nation and citizenry. The division keeps us from fighting for what's right and just, and beneficial to the "whole". We're all pulling in different directions, with different agendas, and with entirely different game plans. In order to accomplish, and to establish, what's fair, just, and right, we have to be united and on the same page of the playbook. Unfortunately, there's little hope of that happening in the foreseeable future. We have way too many citizens afflicted with "Blind Patriotism", and they seem hell-bent on remaining afflicted. We have die hard Republicans, and we have die hard Democrats, and each group honestly believes that "Their Party" is the right and correct party to lead and govern this nation and her citizens. They fail to understand and to realize that neither party is for anything except self-service and the pursuit of power and complete control.

Yes, we do have many problems, but those problems will not be addressed nor corrected as long as we, the voters, allow those in charge to exert their will, and not the will of the people.

What part of what I have said are you addressing with your comment?

 

[BlackSand]

All of the situations that you have mentioned and itemized, have been discussed and debated for many years, probably many decades now. Yes, they are problems that need addressing, and they are problems that need fair and just solutions. But, the solutions require fair minded leaders and representatives to legislate and enact. And, since we have a self-serving corrupt government seated in Washington, and have had for many decades now, the chances for positive, meaningful, and beneficial solutions are slim and none. Remember, "The Washington Brotherhood" is an entity unto itself, answerable to no one except itself. Also, you have to realize that voters are not going to elect pro-America representatives to serve in government, therefore the solutions are fantasy and wishful thinking.

We are a much divided nation and citizenry. The division keeps us from fighting for what's right and just, and beneficial to the "whole". We're all pulling in different directions, with different agendas, and with entirely different game plans. In order to accomplish, and to establish, what's fair, just, and right, we have to be united and on the same page of the playbook. Unfortunately, there's little hope of that happening in the foreseeable future. We have way too many citizens afflicted with "Blind Patriotism", and they seem hell-bent on remaining afflicted. We have die hard Republicans, and we have die hard Democrats, and each group honestly believes that "Their Party" is the right and correct party to lead and govern this nation and her citizens. They fail to understand and to realize that neither party is for anything except self-service and the pursuit of power and complete control.

Yes, we do have many problems, but those problems will not be addressed nor corrected as long as we, the voters, allow those in charge to exert their will, and not the will of the people.

I have to agree with your premise ... But you might have missed the point on how to actually fix it.
Why go back to the government that has proven to be incapable of proper management in order to fix what they have made a mess of?

Adaptation, sustainable solutions, accountable policies and proper follow-up can be (and is being) instituted by private organizations and agencies.
Those entities are also invested in production and sustainability at a base level ... Not getting elected to government.
I have always been more interested in the people and institutions that are doing things correctly ... Than simply interested in their political affiliation.

The "people" need to understand that it is their responsibility to handle the obstacles in front of them and devise a better environment for positive growth.
Of course the government and other entities can make every step you take a challenge ... But step up to the challenge.
There is nothing they can do that you (as the people) cannot figure a way around to achieve better goals and more sustainable outcomes.

.

 

[usfan]

We are a much divided nation and citizenry. The division keeps us from fighting for what's right and just, and beneficial to the "whole". We're all pulling in different directions, with different agendas, and with entirely different game plans. In order to accomplish, and to establish, what's fair, just, and right, we have to be united and on the same page of the playbook. Unfortunately, there's little hope of that happening in the foreseeable future. We have way too many citizens afflicted with "Blind Patriotism", and they seem hell-bent on remaining afflicted. We have die hard Republicans, and we have die hard Democrats, and each group honestly believes that "Their Party" is the right and correct party to lead and govern this nation and her citizens. They fail to understand and to realize that neither party is for anything except self-service and the pursuit of power and complete control.

Yes, we do have many problems, but those problems will not be addressed nor corrected as long as we, the voters, allow those in charge to exert their will, and not the will of the people.

The only division i see is between those who want to mooch off of those who work. It is the age old problem that even Lincoln spoke of:

It is the eternal struggle between these two principles — right and wrong — throughout the world. They are the two principles that have stood face to face from the beginning of time; and will ever continue to struggle. The one is the common right of humanity, and the other the divine right of kings. It is the same principle in whatever shape it develops itself. It is the same spirit that says, "You toil and work and earn bread, and I'll eat it." No matter in what shape it comes, whether from the mouth of a king who seeks to bestride the people of his own nation and live by the fruit of their labor, or from one race of men as an apology for enslaving another race, it is the same tyrannical principle. ~ Abraham Lincoln

Of course those who work are not happy about giving their labors to those who want it easy. Just because some people want to believe the great fiction, that govt can enable them to live off of everybody else, does not mean that the workers have to comply.

This is not about partisan ideology, but is at the root of human survival. Labels, policy, & talking points have no purpose here, other than to deflect from the root issue.

 

[Iceweasel]

And here's exhibit A. If you want to keep a little more of your earnings you are a blind partisan hell bent on destroying the nation so you can afford college for your son or buy a new car.

Oddly, it's the blindest, most partisan hacks that make these accusations.

We are a much divided nation and citizenry. The division keeps us from fighting for what's right and just, and beneficial to the "whole". We're all pulling in different directions, with different agendas, and with entirely different game plans. In order to accomplish, and to establish, what's fair, just, and right, we have to be united and on the same page of the playbook. Unfortunately, there's little hope of that happening in the foreseeable future. We have way too many citizens afflicted with "Blind Patriotism", and they seem hell-bent on remaining afflicted. We have die hard Republicans, and we have die hard Democrats, and each group honestly believes that "Their Party" is the right and correct party to lead and govern this nation and her citizens. They fail to understand and to realize that neither party is for anything except self-service and the pursuit of power and complete control.

Yes, we do have many problems, but those problems will not be addressed nor corrected as long as we, the voters, allow those in charge to exert their will, and not the will of the people.

What part of what I have said are you addressing with your comment?

The whole thing. It was very polemic while attacking partisanship with zero recognition that not everyone fits into your little cubby hole definitions. You are what you hate.

 

[Sonny Clark]

And here's exhibit A. If you want to keep a little more of your earnings you are a blind partisan hell bent on destroying the nation so you can afford college for your son or buy a new car.

Oddly, it's the blindest, most partisan hacks that make these accusations.

We are a much divided nation and citizenry. The division keeps us from fighting for what's right and just, and beneficial to the "whole". We're all pulling in different directions, with different agendas, and with entirely different game plans. In order to accomplish, and to establish, what's fair, just, and right, we have to be united and on the same page of the playbook. Unfortunately, there's little hope of that happening in the foreseeable future. We have way too many citizens afflicted with "Blind Patriotism", and they seem hell-bent on remaining afflicted. We have die hard Republicans, and we have die hard Democrats, and each group honestly believes that "Their Party" is the right and correct party to lead and govern this nation and her citizens. They fail to understand and to realize that neither party is for anything except self-service and the pursuit of power and complete control.

Yes, we do have many problems, but those problems will not be addressed nor corrected as long as we, the voters, allow those in charge to exert their will, and not the will of the people.

What part of what I have said are you addressing with your comment?

The whole thing. It was very polemic while attacking partisanship with zero recognition that not everyone fits into your little cubby hole definitions. You are what you hate.

What I said stands on its own. And, I stand by every single world. FYI - I'm NOT anything that I hate. Who said that I hate anything? I dislike a lot of things, but I don't hate.

 

[usfan]

Personal remarks & attacks are not supposed to take place here. Make rational points, defend them, or rebut the others, but disparaging remarks about the poster are irrelevant.

 

[BlackSand]

The only division i see is between those who want to mooch off of those who work. It is the age old problem that even Lincoln spoke of:

It is the eternal struggle between these two principles — right and wrong — throughout the world. They are the two principles that have stood face to face from the beginning of time; and will ever continue to struggle. The one is the common right of humanity, and the other the divine right of kings. It is the same principle in whatever shape it develops itself. It is the same spirit that says, "You toil and work and earn bread, and I'll eat it." No matter in what shape it comes, whether from the mouth of a king who seeks to bestride the people of his own nation and live by the fruit of their labor, or from one race of men as an apology for enslaving another race, it is the same tyrannical principle. ~ Abraham Lincoln

Of course those who work are not happy about giving their labors to those who want it easy. Just because some people want to believe the great fiction, that govt can enable them to live off of everybody else, does not mean that the workers have to comply.

This is not about partisan ideology, but is at the root of human survival. Labels, policy, & talking points have no purpose here, other than to deflect from the root issue.

I see that as almost an indictment against the government in general ... But my view may be narrowed by my desires.
Most progressive and value building activities that I have seen remain sustainable have been instituted at the ground level and by the people or institutions that actually want to produce better products or services, with a consciousness they actually own.

To say you want GMP (Good Manufacturing Practices) and support a clean environment or proper sustainability is one thing.
To acquire these aspects requires an investment at the corporate level in policies that cost money and address accountability or responsibility.
Once an organization "owns" their policies and direction ... The government is irrelevant to the equation.

We don't need to change the government to change the policies corporations and people have.
If the people want the government out of their business ... Then it is a lot easier when they do things the government cannot and will not accomplish ... Ever!
So we are behind the ball a little ... And bad press also gets all the press ... There are institutions out there that are doing things correctly and making real time adjustments that better influence positive change.

.

 

[Iceweasel]

And here's exhibit A. If you want to keep a little more of your earnings you are a blind partisan hell bent on destroying the nation so you can afford college for your son or buy a new car.

Oddly, it's the blindest, most partisan hacks that make these accusations.

We are a much divided nation and citizenry. The division keeps us from fighting for what's right and just, and beneficial to the "whole". We're all pulling in different directions, with different agendas, and with entirely different game plans. In order to accomplish, and to establish, what's fair, just, and right, we have to be united and on the same page of the playbook. Unfortunately, there's little hope of that happening in the foreseeable future. We have way too many citizens afflicted with "Blind Patriotism", and they seem hell-bent on remaining afflicted. We have die hard Republicans, and we have die hard Democrats, and each group honestly believes that "Their Party" is the right and correct party to lead and govern this nation and her citizens. They fail to understand and to realize that neither party is for anything except self-service and the pursuit of power and complete control.

Yes, we do have many problems, but those problems will not be addressed nor corrected as long as we, the voters, allow those in charge to exert their will, and not the will of the people.

What part of what I have said are you addressing with your comment?

The whole thing. It was very polemic while attacking partisanship with zero recognition that not everyone fits into your little cubby hole definitions. You are what you hate.

What I said stands on its own. And, I stand by every single world. FYI - I'm NOT anything that I hate. Who said that I hate anything? I dislike a lot of things, but I don't hate.

You have a zero tolerance for anyone not goose stepping to your monochromatic drumbeat. That looks a lot like hate to me. What agenda is a conservative supposed to adopt? A liberal one to get along? Don't let the fence post rub your ass raw.

 

[Sonny Clark]

And here's exhibit A. If you want to keep a little more of your earnings you are a blind partisan hell bent on destroying the nation so you can afford college for your son or buy a new car.

Oddly, it's the blindest, most partisan hacks that make these accusations.

We are a much divided nation and citizenry. The division keeps us from fighting for what's right and just, and beneficial to the "whole". We're all pulling in different directions, with different agendas, and with entirely different game plans. In order to accomplish, and to establish, what's fair, just, and right, we have to be united and on the same page of the playbook. Unfortunately, there's little hope of that happening in the foreseeable future. We have way too many citizens afflicted with "Blind Patriotism", and they seem hell-bent on remaining afflicted. We have die hard Republicans, and we have die hard Democrats, and each group honestly believes that "Their Party" is the right and correct party to lead and govern this nation and her citizens. They fail to understand and to realize that neither party is for anything except self-service and the pursuit of power and complete control.

Yes, we do have many problems, but those problems will not be addressed nor corrected as long as we, the voters, allow those in charge to exert their will, and not the will of the people.

What part of what I have said are you addressing with your comment?

The whole thing. It was very polemic while attacking partisanship with zero recognition that not everyone fits into your little cubby hole definitions. You are what you hate.

What I said stands on its own. And, I stand by every single world. FYI - I'm NOT anything that I hate. Who said that I hate anything? I dislike a lot of things, but I don't hate.

You have a zero tolerance for anyone not goose stepping to your monochromatic drumbeat. That looks a lot like hate to me. What agenda is a conservative supposed to adopt? A liberal one to get along? Don't let the fence post rub your ass raw.

FYI - I have never sat on any fence. I do NOT take the middle. Also, I expect NO ONE to "goose step" with me, whatever that means. Again, I have NO hate. I couldn't care less about Liberals or Conservatives. Anything else? Want to attack me some more?

 

[williepete]

Yes, the moochers are entitled to your earnings because, well it's in the Constitution somewhere

OK, I'll bite. I have a copy of the constitution right here in front of me. Can you point out specifically where in the constitution it states moochers are entitled to my earnings?

This will prove to be very enlightening. Thanks in advance.

Edit: And before you start calling me a hater, I don't hate anyone.

 

[usfan]

I see that as almost an indictment against the government in general ... But my view may be narrowed by my desires.
Most progressive and value building activities that I have seen remain sustainable have been instituted at the ground level and by the people or institutions that actually want to produce better products or services, with a consciousness they actually own.

To say you want GMP (Good Manufacturing Practices) and support a clean environment or proper sustainability is one thing.
To acquire these aspects requires an investment at the corporate level in policies that cost money and address accountability or responsibility.
Once an organization "owns" their policies and direction ... The government is irrelevant to the equation.

We don't need to change the government to change the policies corporations and people have.
If the people want the government out of their business ... Then it is a lot easier when they do things the government cannot and will not accomplish ... Ever!
So we are behind the ball a little ... And bad press also gets all the press ... There are institutions out there that are doing things correctly and making real time adjustments that better influence positive change.
.

Any govt is intrusive.. the question is, 'how much?' And, what are the goals? If it is to provide freedom for the people, that is a good goal, from the people's perspective. If it is to provide a cushy existence for a ruling elite, then that is not so much a goal of the people.

But the point of the OP is that when govt becomes corrupted with self serving moochers & looters, who exploit the working man for their own enrichment or ideological agenda, eventually those who actually do the work & production in the nation rebel. They might not get anything better, but their hope & dream is for a fair, competent collective entity. They want fair justice, protection from enemies, & simple laws to abide by. Nobody wants a meddling, micromanaging govt, except those in power.

The contest for ages has been to rescue liberty from the grasp of executive power. ~Daniel Webster

Every generation is involved in this contest, primarily so they can keep what they have built & worked for, rather than have themselves reduced to servitude for a ruling elite, & their property taken for the schemes of the those who have gained power.

Govt is always changing. it is fluid & variable, in every time & place. Very few governing systems last long, & those that do have a history of providing the most freedom & prosperity to the people. But, in any time or place in human history, those who want to control others try to dominate. It is a constant battle for those who want to be free to hold back the encroachments of the power thirsty. Benevolent monarchies & republics seem to deter the graspings of self serving aggressors the best, but they do not last, either.

It is up to the producers, since they are the ones creating all the wealth, to decide what kind of govt they want. They can allow thieves & scoundrels to rule them, or they choose to rule themselves, keeping the looters at arm's length.

 

[Iceweasel]

Yes, the moochers are entitled to your earnings because, well it's in the Constitution somewhere

OK, I'll bite. I have a copy of the constitution right here in front of me. Can you point out specifically where in the constitution it states moochers are entitled to my earnings?

This will prove to be very enlightening. Thanks in advance.

Edit: And before you start calling me a hater, I don't hate anyone.

You didn't detect any sarcasm there?

 

[williepete]

You didn't detect any sarcasm there?

Sorry. Really slow this morning.

Good one.

 

[Iceweasel]

You didn't detect any sarcasm there?

Sorry. Really slow this morning.

Good one.

It's OK, lefties say that kind of stuff without kidding around. Nothing is too ridiculous for them to say.

 

[usfan]

That's it? With all the moochers & looters on this forum, none of them want to chime in & defend their turf? Is exposing what is really going on a threat to you or something?

 

[BlackSand]

That's it? With all the moochers & looters on this forum, none of them want to chime in & defend their turf? Is exposing what is really going on a threat to you or something?

... I am not too sure they really feel the need to defend their turf when there is no way you are actually threatening it.
People can say anything (and most do) ... But that really doesn't mean crap until you do something.
Seems like the producers would have a better understanding of that than moochers and looters ... But unfortunately they don't.

.