I would question a couple of those observations, but then you'd think I was interested in carrying on this debate. Which I'm not.
Pro -lifers are a joke
- Thread starter LilOlLady
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I would question a couple of those observations, but then you'd think I was interested in carrying on this debate. Which I'm not.
JD_2B
Little Vixen
Except that this is an illogical argument- you think that just because someone said a certain percentage (even if it was 50%, who cares- thats not the point) of people WHO abort.. People WHO abort.. people WHO abort..
OUT OF PEOPLE WHO ABORT..
Hell, for all we know, everyone who aborts is religiously affiliated. But out of those who aborted in the given year (2008 I believe I gave?) a certain percentage of THEM were this denomination or that denomination.. HENCE, it is entirely logical to say that 90% or even 100% of people who had the abortions were religious.
How about "out of the 1.4 million people who gave to charities in 2008, 30% claimed to be connected with protestants, 30% claimed catholic, 30% claimed muslim, and the other 10% did not claim any religious affiliation" Gee now, you would accept that as being fucking logical now wouldn't ya!!!
<sigh>
Ur logic is so off.. Epic fail.
That is not what happens at PP, OR at a school. They cant give them aspirin at school AT ALL. And PP is there to evaluate a person's medical history to see if they are a good candidate for birth control. They also do STD testing, too. Little do you realize, but people who go tot women's clinics are often NOT there because they are experiencing the JOYS of sex. In reality, they are often there because they did not have access to birth control or condoms, and now have a nasty disease to contend with, and a possible pregnancy, etc.. At least Planned Parenthood won't treat them like shit the way certain people on here do.. and planned parenthood will actually treat them, because they NEED treating- not because they have to follow some strict set of rules to qualify, or need to have been raped or abused in order to get that treatment. Christian indeed.. I doubt that many anti abortionists ARE christian.
Well I certainly do agree with you that the responsibility does not belong to the schools, and that parents don't have an excuse for not parenting. I agreed in my post to you, also. Did you miss that?
No I am only going to educate you- Look at the statistics that you are so quick to reply to- 60% of women who have abortions have previous children. Clearly they know that pregnancy is a result of sex.. Fortunately women are not considered sexual gatekeepers, and are also not expected to live their lives in chastity, except during the few months they are trying to conceive. People DO have sex for LOVEMAKING purposes, you know.. Oh you started a dialogue all right.. I am here and we are talking. You are just being shot down at every turn and you don't like it. That, incidentally, does not equate to me hating YOU, But I sure as hell hate the mindset you have that women seem to be able to control whether their eggs are released, and when, and if they get fertilized at all, as if this is something that is SO easy to control, lol- And the mindset of the whole religion statistics really doesnt blow me away, I am used to arguing with people like you, who use backwards logic to defend their faithful church going peeps.
Wow- I am so glad that you are at least somewhat open minded to the theory that women who are pro choice are not all about "baby killing" and whatever other nonsense pro lifers seem to love to spew. Now if only you would just STOP letting the emotional side of the debate TAKE OVER YOUR BRAIN, and just THINK and review the FACTS for what they are.. I mean no offense when I say this. I too was primarily pro life, until I found out I was pregnant at 18. I then chose to abort. It wasn't the right time, for a multitude of reasons.. I now have a 10 year old son (2nd pregnancy) and have statistically probably had 3 to 6 very early miscarriages in addition. (common thing that happens- 1 in 4, or maybe its 1 in 3, pregnancies result in a miscarriage.. which is not a death, it is an uncuccessful pregnancy- same as an abortion, only with abortion, the unsuccessful part is made by choice)
OK Sorry for... What? For calling a spade a spade? Your logic is so off, and acting like this is some personal issue between the two of us, is just one way of avoiding the issue at hand.
I didnt know what to make of all that- I figured that you were being a jerk, or something. OK Fine then- no more personal insults on my part. I will be more civil too, then. I only have an associate's in paralegal.. Actually I am so obsessed with debate that I am graduating in a few hours, and have yet to shower and get my cap and gown on, lol.. Thanks for the compliment. I really do appreciate it. I hope you will ignore mine, too. I am sorry as well.
Oh most certainly not- and I think that you are mistaking my debate points with some kind of personal agenda I have against you? Not the case at all. I want to debate the issue, and educate you on the facts, is all. =)
PS- These quotes don't like to all show up so I stuck to my guns on some of the stuff I wrote, but I believe I was only debating the logical fallacies, and nothing more- nothing personal at all, I hope, but if there was- just belay my last. (ignore it)
Immanuel
Gold Member
- May 15, 2007
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Except, that your last paragraph is exactly what I was saying. He had stated that 90% of abortions were religiously affiliated. He then gave statistics that showed that it was more like 76% and then he stated that 23.7% of abortions were for women with no affiliation. I was simply pointing out that his numbers didn't match and I believe that when he read it for himself, he took the time to correct the matter.
How so? Would you not expect that if 80% of the women in this country are Christian that 80% of women who have abortions in this country would be Christian?
Well your opinion of Planned Parenthood and mine are certainly different.
I still do not believe that schools have the right to refer students to Planned Parenthood or any other organization. Again, it is the place of the parents to do so, not schools.
You have no idea how I treat women who have had abortions. None what so ever... so don't be a "douche" and pretend like you think you do.
I also know that Planned Parenthood provides many other services besides abortion and many of those services are extremely needed.
If you are insinuating that you don't think I am a Christian because I don't agree with you on abortion, you are welcome to your thoughts. I am no longer the anti-abortionist who condemns the woman because she had an abortion. As I have said several times recently and many more times before that, I too am a sinner. If God won't forgive the woman who has had an abortion then I have no right to expect him to forgive me.
Might have with all the quotes here and there... sometimes they get a bit hard to read especially with my eyesight going down the crapper.
They do? Damn! I knew I was missing something!
Funny, I don't feel shot down.
As for the mindset that you seem to think that I have, I have to ask you, Where the hell did you get that impression from me? I have no such mindset. Never said any such thing, not one.
Nor was I defending anyone who goes to church. I would assume that if say 30% of Christian women go to church, that it is likely that 30% of abortions are performed on women who attend church. I never said otherwise. Similarly, if 80% of the women in this country state that they are Christian, then I would assume that 80% of abortions would be on "Christian" women.
MM's insinuation, however, was that 80% of abortions are performed on women who go to church every week and that this makes them hypocrites and that clearly is not the case.
Well, I have to admit that Saoirse (from another site) and several other liberal ladies had a hand in that transformation.
Abortion is a highly emotional subject on both sides and the "facts" which are usually provided by the abortion industry are highly unreliable. Facts being presented by organizations like AGI are not reliable at all.
So now I know why I am in so much trouble with you!
Okay, one, I had a friend, actually she was my wife's best friend when I met my wife. We became very good friends and one day after my wife and I got married this friend (sorry, but I don't want to mention names) called me and asked my advice on this kind of subject. She had gotten into "trouble" and needed to know what I thought. Truthfully, this was before I even considered the abortion subject, but, I told her that she needed to to what she felt was right. Unfortunately that was the last time I spoke with her. We don't know why she broke off our friendship and we can't find her.
A miscarriage (aka spontaneous abortion) is a natural abortion, I will grant you that. However, it is a death, but it is a death in God's timing... which, by the way, you could argue that any abortion is in fact in God's timing because none of us face death except in God's timing.
I can understand your decision at 18. I'm not saying I agree with it, but I don't have any clue as to what your situation was at the time. So, I can say that I understand your decision. I have to say, that I can't even begin to think of what I would have done if I were in your shoes. I could say what I would recommend to my daughters if they were in such a situation, but that has not happened, yet.
Actually, I believe you owe me an apology because you are not reading what I have written. You have put your preconceived notions of any man who is not pro-choice into me and you have refused to read what I have said. You have repeatedly put words in my mouth several times that I did not say.
My apologies for that. You don't know me and you don't know of the respect I have for attorneys. I did not mean to insult you at all and I should know better because I have been posting long enough to know that teasing and sarcasm don't show up in print.
Okay sure...wait, was there a compliment in there somewhere? Why would I ignore it? I honestly need every compliment I can get! Because sometimes I am a jerk, even when I don't mean to be.
^ See what I mean teasing and sarcasm don't come out in print that well
And, you can bet I am going to educate you on the emotional side of abortion too!
I lost the quote above, but you said that you were graduating (my guess is you are already gone to the ceremony) Congratulations and I wish you luck in your future efforts in law school. If I am reading correctly you are not in law school yet, but probably finishing your paralegal schooling. Again congrats!
I think you mis-understood me. I can't fault you for that. I won't hold anything against you and I look forward to educating you in the future.
Immie
Joe_Penalty
Truth, Justice, Equality
People who throw stones and have sinned are hypocrites.
Jesus would tell people to repent, so that you would NOT be delivered unto this situation.
But, if this situation arises, let nature run it's course.
Also, if you abort, you and the doctor CAN be forgiven.
JD_2B
Little Vixen
My point was that you are using this logic as if 80% of the women in this country get pregnant and abort, every year. This is not how it works. You have to keep in mind that these percentages are not "out of all women" it is just "out of women who abort", which are two different demographics- not all religious women abort. Your logic is that since 80% of the country is religious, then 80% of all women are religous, and therefore 80% of all abortions are empirically evidenced to be had by religious women. That simply does not make sense.
What if... hypothetically, the 80% of the population even being religious, actually included about 98% of men, and only 62% of women? Or that 95% of women were religious and only 65% of men? The guesstimate that 80% of the population somehow automatically means 80% male, 80% female, equally, that you made, is simply fallicious. It does not give an account for gender, race, education, sexual preference, or income. To assume that it is 80% of males and 80% of females, is just "best guess"- and goes entirely against the reporting of the Alan G institute. This is why I called it a fallacy.
First of all, this post ^^^ did not even give an opinion of Planned Parenthood- only that you don't think kids should be "referred" there. I agree. I do not advocate any government officials (including school staff) to refer anyone to any specific health care provider- not a "crisis pregnancy center" and not an organization that provides abortions, either. They should not, however, be forced to not have any answers for young people who want a list of free clinics or other specific referrals. If I had a teenager (my son is 10) I would want him to be comfortable enough about coming to me for help with treatment if he got an STD. I would want my teenage daughter coming to me if she ever felt like she might be pregnant, also. BUT THAT JUST DOESN'T HAPPEN in every home. Too many people have turned sex and STDs into some kind of dirty disgusting thing. One in five people will get an STD that is treatable, and it is estimated that one half of all people under a certain age have herpes. STDs are just not as taboo as they used to be. We need to talk to our kids about this stuff, and not act like its so freaking weird or disgusting or dirty. If people have an attitude that sex is dirty, that having an STD makes someone skanky, or that getting pregnant as a teenager makes the person somehow dishonorable or bad- the teenagers simply will refuse to come to their parents for help, when they find themselves ACTUALLY having to deal with these real-world issues. They WILL be alone, and they MAY make decisions that they really do not have a good enough moral compass in deciding. They also MAY very well make these choices based on the fact that their parents are intolerant and hateful towards such things as STDs and teen pregnancy. This is where WE are failing our children- I say HATE the behavior, but LOVE the PERSON.
Well, while your own logic has failed, statistically, so did MM's- Family planning is actually quite biblical. Check Ecclesiastes...
Source???
Also- this claim that "the abortion industry" provides false information- Can you truly say that priests for life are all "honest" and "truthful" in their educational materials? Did you know that there are some very well spread pictures on the internet of an abortion protester from Operation Rescue actually holding a STILLBORN CHILD in his arms, and claiming it was an aborted fetus???? I can debunk the anti choice websites all day long.. Just ask.
And yes, I would like a source, on that AGI comment. Otherwise, you are just making it up. AGI is used by the CDC to post their statistical findings on abortion. Is the CDC lying too? If you really think that AGI is not the foremost authority on abortion stats, I suggest you speak with your congressman, and the director of the CDC, as well. Something MUST be done, if this is true!!! </sarcasm>
That part about "a death in God's timing" is not true. The bible supports abortion, very much. Family planning is practically encouraged, in Ecclesiastes 2:23,24; Ecc 6:3-7; Ecc 7:1-7
Also, the bible very clearly says that life begins with a breath from God, into the nostrils. Fetuses cannot breathe air, and are therefore, by God's own standards- not alive yet.
Starting with Genesis (creation account) 2:7 "And the Lord God breathed the breath of life into his nostrils, and Adam BECAME a living being"- Notice that he BECAME. He was already a developing human at the time, but when Adam breathed air for the first time, he BECAME alive. This continues throughout the bible, in many many many situations.
Well, maybe it has, and because of your closed-minded image you seem to project over the issue of abortion, they might just not have told you. A teenage girl can get just about anyone who looks old enough to be her parent, and sign as her guardian.
My mom never found out about mine.. The purpose to keeping the pregnancy a secret was to spare her from the stress that she would have to endure, after just recently finding out she had cancer. I KNOW she would not have approved of my having sex before marriage, and I did not want her to find out. She didnt even know what kind of cancer it was, or if she would be dead in a couple months. Incidentally, my mother also discussed sex as if it was very dirty and foul, and talked about teenage pregnancy as if it was the worst thing that could happen to someone, etc.. She swore that if I had sex before marriage I would end up alone, and on welfare, and that I would catch HIV and be abused because of it. Her views (the ones she shared with me) on premarital sex were a bit extreme, obviously. With my sister, she flip flopped a bit. My sister also got the benefit of being able to talk to dad before he died about the subject, and he made it out to be beautiful and wonderful, and gave her every little intricate detail she wanted to hear about. I was only 9 when he died, so that stuff just didnt interest me yet. Boobs interested me, and he bought me a giant DD bra, lol.. but I think he knew that I was comfortable enough with sexuality that he did not broach the subject, is all. Anyways, the point is, you have to be more open minded about sex in general. It is a nice way to share yourself with someone, and young people should be taught that as a principle of having healthy loving relationships, sexual exploration is okay.
You need to understand- I am not bashing you. It is just that there are plenty of people people just like you who cause Post Abortion Stress Syndrome, the fake ailment made up by the so called pro life community- which is really just post traumatic stress disorder they end up with after having to hear all that that "In Gods eyes.. this is not okay" and "I hope you are forgiven", "abortion = murdering babies" "it is death" "death by the woman's choice", etc.. That is bullshit, and very hurtful, and it is just not a copacetic way of showing any female that you do NOT actually subscribe to the whole "pro choice" mindset, or are even being inasmuch as "nice". Read your bible, and stop acting like you ARE God. You dont get to judge me. I am not apologizing for squat. You deserve every word I have written to you. YOU need to simply continue to rethink your position on how much you hate the PERSON who has an abortion, before you even can BEGIN to debate the actual topic. You HAVE to let go of the emotionally judgmental part of it, to be able to debate this subject.
OK (I am scrolling down to see what you are referring to- since the quote feature on this board kinda sucks, lol) Oh thank you- I dont recognize sarcasm in normal life, half the time, as it is. =) Dont worry about it.
PS- I am really trying to get through to you about the emotional aspects of the "pro life" side of the abortion debate. There seems to be much more ad hominem attacks from that side than any other.
Okay sure...wait, was there a compliment in there somewhere? Why would I ignore it? I honestly need every compliment I can get! Because sometimes I am a jerk, even when I don't mean to be.
I know this feeling, all too well. =) I don't want to label you a jerk. You are clearly just far too emotive about this subject to be able to separate heart and brainpower adequately. I don't think it makes you a "mean" person- Acting like a jerk based on an overabundance of bottled up hate or judgment towards women who abort is very different than coming out and calling us all "whores" or "baby butchers", lol- I know you are not an extremist here. I do not mean to hurt your feelings in any way, by letting you know the facts- well researched facts, some published in medical journals (the APA did a report on PASS- and reported that is is not a real disorder-it is just PTSD- this was posted in some medical journal, although I currently do not recall when or where, but can probably eventually find it if you would like). I don't want you to feel attacked. I am not attacking you personally, or your beliefs about abortion being wrong- I just want people to get to the root of the problem, which is really that people DO get pregnant, even when they don't plan to, mistakes happen, and the result of an untimely and unwanted pregnancy can and will often result in an abortion. The root of the abortion debate is not about "babies dying"- it is generally about the supposed "fall of morality" because people have sex prior to getting married. Lets just please face the facts for what they are, here.
Don't need it. I do NOT need someone to treat me like garbage (AGAIN- 14 years later) for making a decision that cant be reversed. I am a good mother. I do not NEED you to tell me how fucking emotional abortion is. I have had one. You never EVER will face making a choice like that, so dont you DARE try to preach to me about the emotional side of abortion. Let it GO, and debate the ACTUAL FACTS. I am not going to get PTSD because people like you have a problem with the fact that my uterus is the one thing in the world you men cannot control, and that it drives you nuts that it does not come with a freaking remote. (From Roseanne) If you DARE to act like I am some sort of SOCIOPATH who has NOT spent the past 10 years educating myself on all of the various aspects of abortion, emotional, religious, and physical- then you my friend are in for a fucking treat. Dont DO it. THAT will make you a MEAN person, and the JERK that you do not "intend" to be.
Thanks. I am currently a little pissed off about the last quoted comment blimp, so forgive me if I don't kiss your ass for giving me a compliment. I know my worth, and I do not get it from compliments from total strangers, but thank you, still.
I think you mis-understood me. I can't fault you for that. I won't hold anything against you and I look forward to educating you in the future.
Immie
If you can somehow educate me on abortion, after I have already put literally tens of thousands of research hours into this topic, well I will sure be impressed.. 
But dont you DARE think that you can throw out ad hominem attacks like insinuating that I am some sociopath with the Emotional IQ of a peanut. I will not have it. THIS:
will simply not be tolerated, do I make myself crystal clear, Immie?
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Immanuel
Gold Member
- May 15, 2007
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Um, I think you need to go back and read what I wrote. Because I said 80% of women who have abortions. Try going back and rereading my posts.
Again, I said, 80% of women who have abortion. Not 80% of the population.
You won't get an argument from me regarding any of that well stated paragraph.
I have read Ecclesiates many times yet again you are taking the book out of context.
For starters, any thread discussing abortion on any website where the two sides intertwine. Another, would be any abortion clinic that is being protested by pro-lifers; choicers get down right nasty when someone stops to pray in front of a clinic. The doctors that have been murdered over the years because of the work that they do. All of that is emotionally based.
Wasn't it you that just a few posts ago that was preaching that a miscarriage (stillborn birth) was an abortion?
And yes, I would like a source, on that AGI comment. Otherwise, you are just making it up. AGI is used by the CDC to post their statistical findings on abortion. Is the CDC lying too? If you really think that AGI is not the foremost authority on abortion stats, I suggest you speak with your congressman, and the director of the CDC, as well. Something MUST be done, if this is true!!! </sarcasm>
I have no source. How can anyone prove that AGI is honest. We know that not all abortions are recorded by the industry so you are asking everyone to take their word for it. Without proof from them and knowing that they have a vested interest in the finding, I must ask how can anyone claim they are honest?
All of that is out of context again.
Wrong, the Bible states that God breathed life into Adam not that God breathes life into each of us. In fact, it doesn't even state that he breathed life into Eve. It states that he took Eve out of Adam.
No, it has not happened. My daughters have their father's inability to hide their emotions. It would be so evident on their faces that just looking at them would bring the guilt out.
Also, my daughters are extremely shy. I practically have to push them to get them to go outside and getting them to date... well, unlike most fathers, I actually pray that they will. They also know that despite my feelings about abortion, that I would support them regardless of their choice. You seem to believe that I am close minded and in that you are extremely wrong.
Did I ask you to apologize? Have you ever read anything I wrote outside of this thread?
I don't condemn the woman who has had an abortion and I have stated that dozens of times in other threads. I am a sinner. I will not go into my sexual sins on this site, but believe me, I am not proud of them. If I cannot believe that a woman who has had an abortion can be forgiven by God, how then can I believe that I have a right to be forgiven?
The Biblical story of the woman accused of adultery coming to Jesus always comes to mind when I discuss this. You know the one where when they want to stone her and he kneels and begins to write in the dirt? I have often wondered what he wrote, have you? I can see him kneeling down and writing, the name of the mistress of one of the men who wanted to stone her and then naming other sins committed by those who wanted to stone her. Can you imagine having killed a man in cold blood several years ago and having gotten away with it and thinking that know one else knows about it. Then, when you are ready to stone this woman for adultery, this man that you have never even met kneels down and writes the name of the man you killed and looks you straight in the eye?
I do not condemn the woman who has suffered with the decision to abort and then chosen to abort. If there is any condemnation in that, it is up to God, not me.
I think that depends on what side of the fence you are sitting on and what words hurt you. I admit the pro-life side can be nasty, but if you listen closely, you will hear the same kind of hateful rhetoric coming from the pro-choice side. The words of the pro-choice movement are meant to hurt as well.
Wow, have you got me pegged wrong! You really should go read some of my posts!
I can only say that you think you know me, but you don't know a thing about me.
I think that statement was about how emotional the debate is, not how emotional an abortion can be. I wouldn't have a clue where to start there.
Well, let me just say this, I have no intention of discussing your decision with you. It IS NOT my place. I will discuss the topic with you, but I will do my best to avoid the very mentioning of the fact that you laid out a post or two ago. There is a dear friend of mine whom I have known for many years on these boards. She posts here as well. I won't mention her name but she knows who I am talking about. If she cares to reveal herself here that is fine. She had to undergo the same kind of decision you made and she told me about it as well. We discuss the issue not the subject of her choice. Occasionally, her choice comes up, but very, very rarely.
I must say I think you need to go back and study the religious aspect a bit more.
Damn! But you are easy to piss off.
Don't want you to kiss my ass but I would like to be free to discuss things with you as a person rather than you acting like a B.... every time I appear in a thread with you. /ducks
I really am not the evil hateful man you think I am. You have jumped to a ton of conclusions about me that are truly out of place. What is that about not judging others lest ye be judged? How about, take the plank out of your own eye before attempting to remove the splinter from your neighbor's eye?
Tens of thousands? You need to get a life.
Immie
JD_2B
Little Vixen
I did read your posts. I read them, and reread them. Your logic just.. FAILS.
(Forgive the cussing, I am just tired of explaining this over and over, so please read carefully)
Look, you said that SINCE 80% of the population is religious, then it is fair enough to believe that 80% of abortions are had by religious women. I said that your fucking logic is a failure, because you do not know what part of this 80% of the fucking pop is male and what is female- you just fucking assume that it is exactly equal, in the first fucking place.
Second, You also assume that since 80% of the population (your own guess, no less- but assuming that is even accurate as a hypothetical) is religious then it only makes sense that only 80% of abortions are had by religious people. That is just so fucking nonsensical it is unintelligible. What if it is ONLY the other 20% of the population having all the fucking abortions, asshole?? What if 100% of all people surveyed said they had no religious preference? What then? If nobody ever brought up the percentage of people having abortions being religious versus not religious, we wouldnt be having this fucking inane conversation, would we? You would simply AGREE and move on. BUT NOOOOO You just cannot fucking get this shit through your thick goddamned skull now can you??? Christ- you DO NOT GET THAT THIS SURVEY IS BASED ON THE PERCENTAGE OF PEOPLE WHO ABORT, NOT THE FUCKING PERCEPTAGE OF THE POPULATION.
OK let me break it down to you in kindergarten terminology:
Mr Jacob has 1,000 animals on his farms, in total. There is an approximate equality in ratio of the male animals to the female animals. (500 to 500)
OUT OF THOSE ANIMALS, 200 (20%) are "permanent", meaning they are plucked, or shaved and maintained annually, rather than being butchered, which accounts for the other 800 animals, or 80%.
(so apply this to the abortion debate- out of the population of the US, hypothetically being 1,000 people, lets say that 200 have abortions.)
Does this suddenly mean that the animals who are permanent, also must LOGICALLY fall into some specific OTHER category???
Because, really, out of those 1,000 animals, there may ALSO be an 80% rate in being caged... AND THIS DOES NOT MEAN that the 80% that are caged, all happen to pertain to the permanent animals, or is it POSSIBLE that only 10% of the TO BE BUTCHERED animals are caged and 90% of the ones to be plucked are caged.
LOGIC, man.. GET SOME.
Not wanting to talk to your kids, and being prudish about sex is not MY problem. Educate the ones who fucking matter.. For fucks sake, man...
Taking a short break before finishing this post.. I am sooo irritated and cannot tell if you are being sarcastic again or not, and the fact that you truncated the meat of my post indicates sarcasm...
How is it that VANITY is being taken out of context? A man with 100 kids who does not like having to share his hard work with so many offspring, is better off not having so many kids. He is better off having had stillborn children, than to have a hundred- and the inspired word of God goes on to say that still born child is better off than he, though it has not seen the sun or known anything, this has more rest than that man; Every man should eat and drink and enjoy the fruit of his labor- it is the Gift of God; A good name is better than precious ointment, and the day of death than the day of birth; The end of a thing is better than its beginning; Therefore I praised the dead who were already dead more than the living who are still alive;
ANNND VERY important- Ecclesiastes 11:5,6
As you do not know what is the way of the wind, or how the bones grow in the womb of her who is with child, so you do not know the works of God who makes everything. In the morning sow your seed, and in the evening, do not withold your hand: For you do not know which will prosper. Either this or that, or whether both alike will be good.
Therefore remove sorrow from your heart, and put away evil from your flesh, for childhood and youth ARE vanity.
Not for me, it is not. Maybe it is for you? I have never heard of pro choicers being angry over prayer. Lots of pro choice women and men (obviously) consider themselves to be religious.
I admit, there are extremists on both sides- the ones who get overemotional and kill doctors, and the other ones who get overemotional and disrupt picket lines. Never heard of a picketer getting murdered, however... or a CPC (crisis pregnancy center) getting bombed....
I probably said something to the likeness of that.. but not that the two were the same, per se- just that one was a clear cut choice, while the other one was based on the woman's body (and health history, genetics, etc) making the choice for her. I equate them on a certain level because pro lifers love to refer to bible verses such as God having the hairs on your head counted, and him knowing you before you were born, and him knitting you in the mothers womb and such. I think it is silly that they seem to have such a strong emotional reaction to one, and yet do NOT hold GOD the CREATER the all knowing maker of everyone who knows us and made us and planned all of us, at all accountable for the other. WE get called baby killers, while the PLANNER of all, and the bible of his word is as yet STILL hidden behind by the likes of these same folks, and somehow they just dont seem to GET that the vast majority of pregnancies are lost due to a miscarriage. It is illogical, to say the least.. and very hateful/ misogynistic, IMHO.
They have a vested interest in it, how? I guess the same thing can be said about religious zealots, too.. Even the ones who scribed the English bible. Of course, this is the foremost authority on abortion, and is WIDELY accepted as such.. even by Physicians for Life, and others, including even extremist groups like AbortionNO, Priests for life, and the notorious Operation rescue, who are well known for their violence and killings- All of these organizations seem to believe the statistics enough to post them on their anti choice websites:
Physicians For Life - Abstinence, Abortion, Birth Control - Guttmacher Inst. Report: Abortion Statistics, 2001 & 2002 (AGI, 2006)
Abortion Statistics
Abortion Statistics
On to Atlanta - Operation Rescue/Operation Save America
And also- When was the last time you actually really went over and analyzed the statistics on abortion, REALLY??? You should know that AGI reports that out of people who abort, about half of the ones who experience an unwanted pregnancy are poor, and thus have a lack of resources to get birth control:
The abortion rate among women living below the federal poverty level ($9,570 for a single woman with no children) is more than four times that of women above 300% of the poverty level (44 vs. 10 abortions per 1,000 women). This is partly because the rate of unintended pregnancies among poor women (below 100% of poverty) is nearly four times that of women above 200% of poverty* (112 vs. 29 per 1,000 women[3,1]
• About half of unintended pregnancies occur among the 11% of women who are at risk for unintended pregnancy but are not using contraceptives. Most of these women have practiced contraception in the past.[1,10]
Facts on Induced Abortion in the United States
Whatever. =) If you want to argue the point, argue the point. Don't sit there like a brick and say "Not true" and then stop typing all of a sudden, for lack of a response. "Not true" is "not an argument"..
Right, it also does not say HOW he formed Adam from the dust.. but do we dismiss that he did??? Do we dismiss the flood happening, just because God never gave us specifics on how heavy the rain would be, or how many inches can be expected per day or hour??
And yes he does say that we are MADE to be alive by virtue of the wind, meaning God's breath in our lungs- or just the breath.. He brings dead soldiers back to life by breathing wind into their nostrils, even.. He constantly says "Men's lives are but a breath" You should probably research this further..
BibleGateway.com: A searchable online Bible in over 100 versions and 50 languages.
Biological capability only extends about 30%.. So you are 30% sure, and 60% unsure.. And the fact that you are so reliant on your own showy emotions to be a predominantly inherited trait in your daughters, rather than actually opening your mouth and letting the words come out, speaks mountains about your inability to communicate about sensitive matters out of fear that you will either be embarrassed or that your daughters will somehow become jaded..
You say "regardless" of their choice.. Have you ever heard of a person making a decision based on coercion or duress? Do you realize the negative connotations that saying things THAT WAY might actually have?? Way to go, Dad..
PS- I don't believe in Shyness anymore. I am a very unshy person (outgoing is a better word, but I want to define it better, and am wholly unconcerned about literacy on this message board) but have met a tremendous number of people who described themselves as "Shy" when I first met them. It does not take much, and it does not take LONG, to pull a shy person out of their shell. Generally, I find, these people come to me later, and let me know that they were insecure or had low self esteem before meeting me, and that they felt that I built them up to feeling very good about themselves because of it. Not just me, but just like- you know- me and the kinds of positive people I surround myself with. When people feel confident about and trusting of the people they are around, they are more likely to be more outgoing. Just a tip.. You might also consider suggesting to them that they join some kind of club where everyone is very outgoing, like a drama club or a debate group, or even a sports team.. Often, girls and boys alike need a gentle push into the right "group" to help them feel extra special and gain that much needed confidence.
Yeah you did ask me to apologise for calling you a douche. I thought I did that once already, anyways, but apparently it wasnt enough.
Because you and I both know good and well that being forgiven is NOT a right. Thats where the undertone sits..
I bet he drew a heart like this <3
His wishes for people to be stoned to death for such things were very much ingrained into the minds of people.. He was only illustrating to her that now is the time when people have to tighten up and not even think about doing such a thing.. And that it is first and foremost that people put God first, before their own vanity (emotional rhetoric included)- I had to add that which is in parentheses for effect, you understand.. =)
How so? Because we dont put up with people who wrongfully hide behind a bible to spew hate? Because in spite of even your own faith, (you already said several times that I am taking the bible out of context- did you not!) you attest that you would support your daughters "regardless" of what (murderous, perhaps, unbiblical in your eyes) decision they may make that will be "left to God" to decide is wrong or right?
THAT is what hurts you.. MY words just ring the bells of truth regarding your own internal emotional battle over this issue. That is much different than a personal attack, my friend.
Gosh, I was being NICE in that one- I said you weren't being a jerk, and I knew you are not trying to, and that anything you said was unintentional. You still do not understand that in your posts to ME, PERSONALLY, you have successfully berated ME, my decisions, my faith, my salvation, and my knowledge on this subject. Thanks- now you are being a jerk.
That was an educational post in which I stated NUMEROUS times "they" instead of "you", and that "they" indeed have a problem more with the pregnancy issue than anything else. You are now having one of those frequent emotional eruptions, over it?? Why take that personally???
Oh bullcrap- You know damned well that if abortion itself was a non issue for you emotionally, then the debate would not be emotionally charged either. Get real. If you really think that pro lifers get this charged up over "a womans right to make decisions regarding her body" rather than "the supposed death of a fetus that is not even born yet", you are most certainly suffering from a neurological misfire. (Thats my cutesy way of saying brain fart, without saying brain fart, which just doesn't sound as trendy as it once did) Pro Choicers really don't have any reason to debate this issue- Its LEGAL and SAFE now, so what do we care what anyone else thinks, aside from educating people on the ins and outs of the subject matter.
Well, FYI, I did not "have to undergo" anything, I "chose to undergo" an abortion. And you can feel free to talk about that, as long as you do not personally attack me over it, which includes undertones of ad hominems, thinly veiled, as far as I am concerned, lol.
And I think that you need to study the religious aspect a bit more. Go back and do some keyword searches on the breath of life, breath, the wind, and look at those Ecclesiastes verses I gave you.. And look up how many shekels a newborn was worth compared to a one month old- a newborn had NO value. Just go look for yourself. Reading the bible is not enough.. God says we should always be on a quest for truth, and not allow ourselves to be deceived. The truth shall set you free.
It would help if you didnt act like a douchebag belittling someone else and their DOCUMENTED beliefs, which you FAIL to even DEBATE, and completely contradict yourself at every turn along the way. I would find more pleasure in this discussion, if not for these problematic emotional kneejerk reactions you constantly have, leaving me without either a point of yours to debate, and only a flame or demeaning comment to defend myself against, as well. Assholish, to say the least. And you call ME a bitch?? HA!
What plank would that be? All the posts I keep putting effort into making, and only getting some kind of discrediting statement of personal belief, with no factual or credible argument to back any of it up, and often no argument at all, just you belittling my posts.. And yet the plank is in MY eye??? Are you KIDDING me here??? Get REAL. At least with yourself..
Tens of thousands? You need to get a life.
Immie
Nice.. Another flame post by the wise and powerless Immie who doesnt even argue points.. C'mon lets actually DEBATE here, and stop making this whole fucking thread an ambulance chase!
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frazzledgear
Senior Member
- Mar 17, 2008
- 1,479
- 544
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You make a lot of claims yet offer zero proof to back it up -just a froth of unfounded and very irrational OPINIONS. YOU have no idea who does and does not adopt special needs children -or what their personal beliefs about abortion may be. You just MIGHT want to check on who does adopt special needs children though -and whether they tend to be religious people or raging liberals who believe children deserve to be killed if less than perfect specimens -or even if their mother just finds their very existence to be inconvenient. I'm trying to grasp this one but having a hard time with it. If I oppose killing an unborn child for the "crime" of being unwanted -unless I am willing to PERSONALLY raise and support that person into adulthood, that means I'm a hypocrite and a joke in your world? ARE YOU OUT OF YOUR MIND? Gee, I oppose child abuse too - does that mean that unless I personally take over raising an abused child I'm not allowed to oppose child abuse and insist that should be illegal as well? Does that mean since you aren't willing to personally raise every abused child you hear about -that it means you SUPPORT child abuse? I oppose setting fire to homeless winos who are sleeping it off in an alley -want to try and lay your blistering critical thinking skills about that one on me now? LOL Want to talk about who is the joke here?
And sorry, but there is zero evidence that unwanted children end up being SOLDIERS! How off the wall can you get here? ROFLMAO! And obviously not listening to Tea Partyers either. They don't oppose health care reform. Might want to actually LISTEN to what they mean by reform and what Congress means by it -and decide which is actually real REFORM. Which begs the question -why would you support a bill that Democrats admit will STILL leave at least half of those without insurance still with no health insurance but that studies have shown will dramatically RAISE premiums. For the rest of us. Who happen to be the vast majority. Calling a bill "reform" that in no way fixes the PROBLEMS -isn't reform. That is because none of the bills in Congress has a damn thing to do with true REFORM -it is about expansion of government control and power. While WE THE PEOPLE get hosed for it. PERIOD. You must think you just don't pay enough taxes and are itching to pay 40% or more -and get an overburdened, inefficient and unresponsive system in exchange. Because that is what everyone gets in exchange for government run health care. But sure -the same government that did such a bang up job with Hurricane Katrina, gave us the caring of the IRS, screwed up another, MUCH smaller program in the very first WEEK by underestimating the cost by a factor of FOUR (with taxpayers stuck with THAT bill as well), is in control of health care insurance programs like Medicare already - that are scheduled for bankruptcy in less than ten years and zero plans to fix that one -is just the one to take over health care for ALL OF US. They can't do it right for just a fraction of the population but the right one to do it for ALL of us? Get real.
Tea Partyers are sick of boobs like YOU who think the only possible way to provide health care insurance for those who CANNOT provide it for themselves -is to destroy the entire system for the vast majority who are actually satisfied with how it works for THEM. Just can't think outside that box that pretends government -which is just OTHER PEOPLE and not a magical entity -is not only the best answer, it is the ONLY answer. When in fact rarely is "more government" the only answer, even more rarely is it the best answer. And HISTORY proves that one to be absolutely true.
The overwhelming majority of those killed through abortion were merely UNWANTED -not handicapped in any way. Their existence considered inconvenient today while people like YOU say that if no one else finds value in another person's life that means we get to kill them. Do you REALLY think Jesus would agree with that one -or agree with YOU that those who speak out against that slaughter have no business saying a word UNLESS they are willing to personally take that child and raise it to adulthood? If you REALLY believe that Jesus would say that God erred by gifting someone with life and therefore if a woman finds the very existence of that life to be INCONVENIENT for her and should have it killed -thereby fixing God's mistake - then you just prove you haven't a clue what Jesus EVER said about anything.
I would find it hilarious that you ended your irrational spew with "What would Jesus do" except I find it just too appalling and offensive. You must have actually convinced yourself that if here today, Jesus would have a totally different message than the one He brought when He was here, right? Which can only mean that God must have CHANGED HIS MIND about His message, right? Which in your mind explains why God sent Jesus then instead of a couple thousand years later ......how?
Immanuel
Gold Member
- May 15, 2007
- 16,828
- 2,269
- 183
I did read your posts. I read them, and reread them. Your logic just.. FAILS.
(Forgive the cussing, I am just tired of explaining this over and over, so please read carefully)
Look, you said that SINCE 80% of the population is religious, then it is fair enough to believe that 80% of abortions are had by religious women. I said that your fucking logic is a failure, because you do not know what part of this 80% of the fucking pop is male and what is female- you just fucking assume that it is exactly equal, in the first fucking place.
Second, You also assume that since 80% of the population (your own guess, no less- but assuming that is even accurate as a hypothetical) is religious then it only makes sense that only 80% of abortions are had by religious people. That is just so fucking nonsensical it is unintelligible. What if it is ONLY the other 20% of the population having all the fucking abortions, asshole?? What if 100% of all people surveyed said they had no religious preference? What then? If nobody ever brought up the percentage of people having abortions being religious versus not religious, we wouldnt be having this fucking inane conversation, would we? You would simply AGREE and move on. BUT NOOOOO You just cannot fucking get this shit through your thick goddamned skull now can you??? Christ- you DO NOT GET THAT THIS SURVEY IS BASED ON THE PERCENTAGE OF PEOPLE WHO ABORT, NOT THE FUCKING PERCEPTAGE OF THE POPULATION.
OK let me break it down to you in kindergarten terminology:
Mr Jacob has 1,000 animals on his farms, in total. There is an approximate equality in ratio of the male animals to the female animals. (500 to 500)
OUT OF THOSE ANIMALS, 200 (20%) are "permanent", meaning they are plucked, or shaved and maintained annually, rather than being butchered, which accounts for the other 800 animals, or 80%.
(so apply this to the abortion debate- out of the population of the US, hypothetically being 1,000 people, lets say that 200 have abortions.)
Does this suddenly mean that the animals who are permanent, also must LOGICALLY fall into some specific OTHER category???
Because, really, out of those 1,000 animals, there may ALSO be an 80% rate in being caged... AND THIS DOES NOT MEAN that the 80% that are caged, all happen to pertain to the permanent animals, or is it POSSIBLE that only 10% of the TO BE BUTCHERED animals are caged and 90% of the ones to be plucked are caged.
LOGIC, man.. GET SOME.
Not wanting to talk to your kids, and being prudish about sex is not MY problem. Educate the ones who fucking matter.. For fucks sake, man...
Taking a short break before finishing this post.. I am sooo irritated and cannot tell if you are being sarcastic again or not, and the fact that you truncated the meat of my post indicates sarcasm...
How is it that VANITY is being taken out of context? A man with 100 kids who does not like having to share his hard work with so many offspring, is better off not having so many kids. He is better off having had stillborn children, than to have a hundred- and the inspired word of God goes on to say that still born child is better off than he, though it has not seen the sun or known anything, this has more rest than that man; Every man should eat and drink and enjoy the fruit of his labor- it is the Gift of God; A good name is better than precious ointment, and the day of death than the day of birth; The end of a thing is better than its beginning; Therefore I praised the dead who were already dead more than the living who are still alive;
ANNND VERY important- Ecclesiastes 11:5,6
As you do not know what is the way of the wind, or how the bones grow in the womb of her who is with child, so you do not know the works of God who makes everything. In the morning sow your seed, and in the evening, do not withold your hand: For you do not know which will prosper. Either this or that, or whether both alike will be good.
Therefore remove sorrow from your heart, and put away evil from your flesh, for childhood and youth ARE vanity.
Not for me, it is not. Maybe it is for you? I have never heard of pro choicers being angry over prayer. Lots of pro choice women and men (obviously) consider themselves to be religious.
I admit, there are extremists on both sides- the ones who get overemotional and kill doctors, and the other ones who get overemotional and disrupt picket lines. Never heard of a picketer getting murdered, however... or a CPC (crisis pregnancy center) getting bombed....
I probably said something to the likeness of that.. but not that the two were the same, per se- just that one was a clear cut choice, while the other one was based on the woman's body (and health history, genetics, etc) making the choice for her. I equate them on a certain level because pro lifers love to refer to bible verses such as God having the hairs on your head counted, and him knowing you before you were born, and him knitting you in the mothers womb and such. I think it is silly that they seem to have such a strong emotional reaction to one, and yet do NOT hold GOD the CREATER the all knowing maker of everyone who knows us and made us and planned all of us, at all accountable for the other. WE get called baby killers, while the PLANNER of all, and the bible of his word is as yet STILL hidden behind by the likes of these same folks, and somehow they just dont seem to GET that the vast majority of pregnancies are lost due to a miscarriage. It is illogical, to say the least.. and very hateful/ misogynistic, IMHO.
They have a vested interest in it, how? I guess the same thing can be said about religious zealots, too.. Even the ones who scribed the English bible. Of course, this is the foremost authority on abortion, and is WIDELY accepted as such.. even by Physicians for Life, and others, including even extremist groups like AbortionNO, Priests for life, and the notorious Operation rescue, who are well known for their violence and killings- All of these organizations seem to believe the statistics enough to post them on their anti choice websites:
Physicians For Life - Abstinence, Abortion, Birth Control - Guttmacher Inst. Report: Abortion Statistics, 2001 & 2002 (AGI, 2006)
Abortion Statistics
Abortion Statistics
On to Atlanta - Operation Rescue/Operation Save America
And also- When was the last time you actually really went over and analyzed the statistics on abortion, REALLY??? You should know that AGI reports that out of people who abort, about half of the ones who experience an unwanted pregnancy are poor, and thus have a lack of resources to get birth control:
The abortion rate among women living below the federal poverty level ($9,570 for a single woman with no children) is more than four times that of women above 300% of the poverty level (44 vs. 10 abortions per 1,000 women). This is partly because the rate of unintended pregnancies among poor women (below 100% of poverty) is nearly four times that of women above 200% of poverty* (112 vs. 29 per 1,000 women[3,1]
• About half of unintended pregnancies occur among the 11% of women who are at risk for unintended pregnancy but are not using contraceptives. Most of these women have practiced contraception in the past.[1,10]
Facts on Induced Abortion in the United States
Whatever. =) If you want to argue the point, argue the point. Don't sit there like a brick and say "Not true" and then stop typing all of a sudden, for lack of a response. "Not true" is "not an argument"..
Right, it also does not say HOW he formed Adam from the dust.. but do we dismiss that he did??? Do we dismiss the flood happening, just because God never gave us specifics on how heavy the rain would be, or how many inches can be expected per day or hour??
And yes he does say that we are MADE to be alive by virtue of the wind, meaning God's breath in our lungs- or just the breath.. He brings dead soldiers back to life by breathing wind into their nostrils, even.. He constantly says "Men's lives are but a breath" You should probably research this further..
BibleGateway.com: A searchable online Bible in over 100 versions and 50 languages.
Biological capability only extends about 30%.. So you are 30% sure, and 60% unsure.. And the fact that you are so reliant on your own showy emotions to be a predominantly inherited trait in your daughters, rather than actually opening your mouth and letting the words come out, speaks mountains about your inability to communicate about sensitive matters out of fear that you will either be embarrassed or that your daughters will somehow become jaded..
You say "regardless" of their choice.. Have you ever heard of a person making a decision based on coercion or duress? Do you realize the negative connotations that saying things THAT WAY might actually have?? Way to go, Dad..
PS- I don't believe in Shyness anymore. I am a very unshy person (outgoing is a better word, but I want to define it better, and am wholly unconcerned about literacy on this message board) but have met a tremendous number of people who described themselves as "Shy" when I first met them. It does not take much, and it does not take LONG, to pull a shy person out of their shell. Generally, I find, these people come to me later, and let me know that they were insecure or had low self esteem before meeting me, and that they felt that I built them up to feeling very good about themselves because of it. Not just me, but just like- you know- me and the kinds of positive people I surround myself with. When people feel confident about and trusting of the people they are around, they are more likely to be more outgoing. Just a tip.. You might also consider suggesting to them that they join some kind of club where everyone is very outgoing, like a drama club or a debate group, or even a sports team.. Often, girls and boys alike need a gentle push into the right "group" to help them feel extra special and gain that much needed confidence.
Yeah you did ask me to apologise for calling you a douche. I thought I did that once already, anyways, but apparently it wasnt enough.
Because you and I both know good and well that being forgiven is NOT a right. Thats where the undertone sits..
I bet he drew a heart like this <3
His wishes for people to be stoned to death for such things were very much ingrained into the minds of people.. He was only illustrating to her that now is the time when people have to tighten up and not even think about doing such a thing.. And that it is first and foremost that people put God first, before their own vanity (emotional rhetoric included)- I had to add that which is in parentheses for effect, you understand.. =)
How so? Because we dont put up with people who wrongfully hide behind a bible to spew hate? Because in spite of even your own faith, (you already said several times that I am taking the bible out of context- did you not!) you attest that you would support your daughters "regardless" of what (murderous, perhaps, unbiblical in your eyes) decision they may make that will be "left to God" to decide is wrong or right?
THAT is what hurts you.. MY words just ring the bells of truth regarding your own internal emotional battle over this issue. That is much different than a personal attack, my friend.
Gosh, I was being NICE in that one- I said you weren't being a jerk, and I knew you are not trying to, and that anything you said was unintentional. You still do not understand that in your posts to ME, PERSONALLY, you have successfully berated ME, my decisions, my faith, my salvation, and my knowledge on this subject. Thanks- now you are being a jerk.
That was an educational post in which I stated NUMEROUS times "they" instead of "you", and that "they" indeed have a problem more with the pregnancy issue than anything else. You are now having one of those frequent emotional eruptions, over it?? Why take that personally???
Oh bullcrap- You know damned well that if abortion itself was a non issue for you emotionally, then the debate would not be emotionally charged either. Get real. If you really think that pro lifers get this charged up over "a womans right to make decisions regarding her body" rather than "the supposed death of a fetus that is not even born yet", you are most certainly suffering from a neurological misfire. (Thats my cutesy way of saying brain fart, without saying brain fart, which just doesn't sound as trendy as it once did) Pro Choicers really don't have any reason to debate this issue- Its LEGAL and SAFE now, so what do we care what anyone else thinks, aside from educating people on the ins and outs of the subject matter.
Well, FYI, I did not "have to undergo" anything, I "chose to undergo" an abortion. And you can feel free to talk about that, as long as you do not personally attack me over it, which includes undertones of ad hominems, thinly veiled, as far as I am concerned, lol.
And I think that you need to study the religious aspect a bit more. Go back and do some keyword searches on the breath of life, breath, the wind, and look at those Ecclesiastes verses I gave you.. And look up how many shekels a newborn was worth compared to a one month old- a newborn had NO value. Just go look for yourself. Reading the bible is not enough.. God says we should always be on a quest for truth, and not allow ourselves to be deceived. The truth shall set you free.
It would help if you didnt act like a douchebag belittling someone else and their DOCUMENTED beliefs, which you FAIL to even DEBATE, and completely contradict yourself at every turn along the way. I would find more pleasure in this discussion, if not for these problematic emotional kneejerk reactions you constantly have, leaving me without either a point of yours to debate, and only a flame or demeaning comment to defend myself against, as well. Assholish, to say the least. And you call ME a bitch?? HA!
What plank would that be? All the posts I keep putting effort into making, and only getting some kind of discrediting statement of personal belief, with no factual or credible argument to back any of it up, and often no argument at all, just you belittling my posts.. And yet the plank is in MY eye??? Are you KIDDING me here??? Get REAL. At least with yourself..
Tens of thousands? You need to get a life.
Immie
Nice.. Another flame post by the wise and powerless Immie who doesnt even argue points.. C'mon lets actually DEBATE here, and stop making this whole fucking thread an ambulance chase!
From the very beginning of our conversation you have had your head up your rearend. You have done nothing but attack me out of spite, even when I have conceded points to you and attempted to be polite and I have done so in every post, you throw it back in my face..
You have done nothing but judge me and you have the audacity to complain that I have judged you on your actions? You are a hypocrite. I have not judged your actions at all. Not only that but I never made one negative statement about your decision nor your salvation. Your knowledge of the subject is extremely limited and very biased, much more so than mine.
Yet you put yourself out as if you know everything. I have not once mentioned your salvation. That remark of yours is ridiculous. You know very little about the Bible (probably only the parts you have read from pro-abortion propaganda), but neither do people who are mentally handicapped. Oh God! I hope you know what the word "neither" means or you will think I claimed you were mentally handicapped. Our salvation is not dependent upon a knowledge of the Word of God. It is dependent upon our faith, which is given to us by Grace. See Ephesians 2:8-9.
And you have been rude through out the entire conversation despite my repeated efforts to be polite. I will guarantee that you will respond in kind to this post.
You can't even read the very first thing I said to you and you think you have a chance at being a lawyer! I said that if 80% of the population were religious that it only makes sense that 80% of women consider themselves religious. If 80% of women consider themselves religious then it only makes sense that 80% of abortions are performed on women who consider themselves religious. It is that simple. I also stated that considering oneself to be religious in this country does not make one a Religious Right fanatic nor even particularly religious. Get a clue.
You want to be a lawyer and you don't even understand the law of averages? Good luck with your profession.
Yes, I call you a bitch. Because have been a bitch repeatedly, but you are too stuck up on your opinions to understand that. You have done nothing at all but attack me from the very beginning. I have repeatedly attempted to be polite yet everyone of your comebacks has thrown that back in my face.
How can we debate when you are not even smart enough to understand the law of averages that was discussed from our first posts together? You cannot even comprehend such a simple point, yet you want to debate? You continually throw out Ecclesiastes which has nothing to do with abortion as if it were God's word on abortion and then you completely ignored the posts from Psalms which speak of God knowing us from the womb. My guess is that is because you cannot bear the idea that human life begins much earlier than... wasn't it you that said ninety days after birth?
I do contradict what people think I should be like. People know that I am pro-life. That means that they think I should condemn all women who have had abortions and that I should think that doctors who perform them should die terrible deaths. They think that it means that I hate women and don't think women should have any rights at all. Yet, they can't understand it when I come out and say that I am as guilty of sin as any woman who has made that choice and deserve the same punishment that every human being on Earth deserves. Yes, that is contradictory. If you can't handle that, don't blame me.
The "get a life" comment was not a flame. Tens of thousands of hours is a hell of a lot of time to spend on this... not to mention the fact that I don't believe you have spent tens of thousands of hours on this subject, however, I do understand and recognize the use of hyperbole. Thus the comment "get a life". Tens of thousands of hours? Do you really expect us to believe that? By the way, have you ever read about the subject from the other point of view?
If you want to debate the subject, we have to quit "quoting" each others posts because there is too much in there now and has been for quite some time. If you think I ignored one of your "brilliant" points it is because as you said earlier, the quote feature is lacking and these replies are way too long and my time is limited.
I will comment on one of your "brilliant" points in there at this point. You asked about AGI and why I would state that their "information" cannot be taken at face value. Not your words, just a summary.
Do you know that AGI is an offshoot of Planned Parenthood and they get their funding from the Pro-Choice organizations of the world? You know that right? Do you think they are going to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth or do you think they are likely to slant things to improve their cause? Do you really believe they are going to risk their funding? They could print that ONLY religious women use abortions for birth control (meaning that all non-religious women only use abortion because of rape, incest or the life of the mother is in serious jeopardy) and people like you would believe it. They could print that the number of abortions had fallen 85% since the days of George Bush and people like you would believe it. Yet, there is not a shred of evidence to back up their claims because the abortion industry is protected.
In order to prove that they were lying one would have to have full access to every room in every clinic throughout the country and that is not going to happen, nor for the privacy of the patient should it. But, AGI, has the unique advantage of being able to print "abortion data" that is unverifiable and have people like you accept it as Gospel. Even if AGI does supply accurate information from the data given to them. You are relying on abortion clinics themselves to provide accurate information. That is a very big IF. You are relying on information that is generally kept secret by all of those who are involved. Under those circumstances it is difficult to accept AGI as a reliable source of information.
Ecclesiastes:
In reference to your question about how Solomon's statements in Ecclesiastes being taken out of context. Solomon was depressed at the time of the writing of the book. Have you never heard a depressed person say, "I wish I had never been born" or "I would have been better off if I had not been born"? That doesn't mean that is true. It doesn't mean, as you claim, that God is saying that people are better off if they are not born.
"Men's lives are but a breath" refers to the length of time we have on this Earth... you should probably do some more research.
Um, that only makes up 90%. What about the other 10% know-it-all?
And this <3 is not a heart... it is a kiss.
<3 and this is me sticking my tongue out at you:
Immie
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Joe_Penalty
Truth, Justice, Equality
My point was that you are using this logic as if 80% of the women in this country get pregnant and abort, every year. This is not how it works. You have to keep in mind that these percentages are not "out of all women" it is just "out of women who abort", which are two different demographics- not all religious women abort. Your logic is that since 80% of the country is religious, then 80% of all women are religous, and therefore 80% of all abortions are empirically evidenced to be had by religious women. That simply does not make sense.
What if... hypothetically, the 80% of the population even being religious, actually included about 98% of men, and only 62% of women? Or that 95% of women were religious and only 65% of men? The guesstimate that 80% of the population somehow automatically means 80% male, 80% female, equally, that you made, is simply fallicious. It does not give an account for gender, race, education, sexual preference, or income. To assume that it is 80% of males and 80% of females, is just "best guess"- and goes entirely against the reporting of the Alan G institute. This is why I called it a fallacy.
First of all, this post ^^^ did not even give an opinion of Planned Parenthood- only that you don't think kids should be "referred" there. I agree. I do not advocate any government officials (including school staff) to refer anyone to any specific health care provider- not a "crisis pregnancy center" and not an organization that provides abortions, either. They should not, however, be forced to not have any answers for young people who want a list of free clinics or other specific referrals. If I had a teenager (my son is 10) I would want him to be comfortable enough about coming to me for help with treatment if he got an STD. I would want my teenage daughter coming to me if she ever felt like she might be pregnant, also. BUT THAT JUST DOESN'T HAPPEN in every home. Too many people have turned sex and STDs into some kind of dirty disgusting thing. One in five people will get an STD that is treatable, and it is estimated that one half of all people under a certain age have herpes. STDs are just not as taboo as they used to be. We need to talk to our kids about this stuff, and not act like its so freaking weird or disgusting or dirty. If people have an attitude that sex is dirty, that having an STD makes someone skanky, or that getting pregnant as a teenager makes the person somehow dishonorable or bad- the teenagers simply will refuse to come to their parents for help, when they find themselves ACTUALLY having to deal with these real-world issues. They WILL be alone, and they MAY make decisions that they really do not have a good enough moral compass in deciding. They also MAY very well make these choices based on the fact that their parents are intolerant and hateful towards such things as STDs and teen pregnancy. This is where WE are failing our children- I say HATE the behavior, but LOVE the PERSON.
Well, while your own logic has failed, statistically, so did MM's- Family planning is actually quite biblical. Check Ecclesiastes...
Source???
Also- this claim that "the abortion industry" provides false information- Can you truly say that priests for life are all "honest" and "truthful" in their educational materials? Did you know that there are some very well spread pictures on the internet of an abortion protester from Operation Rescue actually holding a STILLBORN CHILD in his arms, and claiming it was an aborted fetus???? I can debunk the anti choice websites all day long.. Just ask.
And yes, I would like a source, on that AGI comment. Otherwise, you are just making it up. AGI is used by the CDC to post their statistical findings on abortion. Is the CDC lying too? If you really think that AGI is not the foremost authority on abortion stats, I suggest you speak with your congressman, and the director of the CDC, as well. Something MUST be done, if this is true!!! </sarcasm>
That part about "a death in God's timing" is not true. The bible supports abortion, very much. Family planning is practically encouraged, in Ecclesiastes 2:23,24; Ecc 6:3-7; Ecc 7:1-7
Also, the bible very clearly says that life begins with a breath from God, into the nostrils. Fetuses cannot breathe air, and are therefore, by God's own standards- not alive yet.
Starting with Genesis (creation account) 2:7 "And the Lord God breathed the breath of life into his nostrils, and Adam BECAME a living being"- Notice that he BECAME. He was already a developing human at the time, but when Adam breathed air for the first time, he BECAME alive. This continues throughout the bible, in many many many situations.
Well, maybe it has, and because of your closed-minded image you seem to project over the issue of abortion, they might just not have told you. A teenage girl can get just about anyone who looks old enough to be her parent, and sign as her guardian.
My mom never found out about mine.. The purpose to keeping the pregnancy a secret was to spare her from the stress that she would have to endure, after just recently finding out she had cancer. I KNOW she would not have approved of my having sex before marriage, and I did not want her to find out. She didnt even know what kind of cancer it was, or if she would be dead in a couple months. Incidentally, my mother also discussed sex as if it was very dirty and foul, and talked about teenage pregnancy as if it was the worst thing that could happen to someone, etc.. She swore that if I had sex before marriage I would end up alone, and on welfare, and that I would catch HIV and be abused because of it. Her views (the ones she shared with me) on premarital sex were a bit extreme, obviously. With my sister, she flip flopped a bit. My sister also got the benefit of being able to talk to dad before he died about the subject, and he made it out to be beautiful and wonderful, and gave her every little intricate detail she wanted to hear about. I was only 9 when he died, so that stuff just didnt interest me yet. Boobs interested me, and he bought me a giant DD bra, lol.. but I think he knew that I was comfortable enough with sexuality that he did not broach the subject, is all. Anyways, the point is, you have to be more open minded about sex in general. It is a nice way to share yourself with someone, and young people should be taught that as a principle of having healthy loving relationships, sexual exploration is okay.
You need to understand- I am not bashing you. It is just that there are plenty of people people just like you who cause Post Abortion Stress Syndrome, the fake ailment made up by the so called pro life community- which is really just post traumatic stress disorder they end up with after having to hear all that that "In Gods eyes.. this is not okay" and "I hope you are forgiven", "abortion = murdering babies" "it is death" "death by the woman's choice", etc.. That is bullshit, and very hurtful, and it is just not a copacetic way of showing any female that you do NOT actually subscribe to the whole "pro choice" mindset, or are even being inasmuch as "nice". Read your bible, and stop acting like you ARE God. You dont get to judge me. I am not apologizing for squat. You deserve every word I have written to you. YOU need to simply continue to rethink your position on how much you hate the PERSON who has an abortion, before you even can BEGIN to debate the actual topic. You HAVE to let go of the emotionally judgmental part of it, to be able to debate this subject.
OK (I am scrolling down to see what you are referring to- since the quote feature on this board kinda sucks, lol) Oh thank you- I dont recognize sarcasm in normal life, half the time, as it is. =) Dont worry about it.
PS- I am really trying to get through to you about the emotional aspects of the "pro life" side of the abortion debate. There seems to be much more ad hominem attacks from that side than any other.
I know this feeling, all too well. =) I don't want to label you a jerk. You are clearly just far too emotive about this subject to be able to separate heart and brainpower adequately. I don't think it makes you a "mean" person- Acting like a jerk based on an overabundance of bottled up hate or judgment towards women who abort is very different than coming out and calling us all "whores" or "baby butchers", lol- I know you are not an extremist here. I do not mean to hurt your feelings in any way, by letting you know the facts- well researched facts, some published in medical journals (the APA did a report on PASS- and reported that is is not a real disorder-it is just PTSD- this was posted in some medical journal, although I currently do not recall when or where, but can probably eventually find it if you would like). I don't want you to feel attacked. I am not attacking you personally, or your beliefs about abortion being wrong- I just want people to get to the root of the problem, which is really that people DO get pregnant, even when they don't plan to, mistakes happen, and the result of an untimely and unwanted pregnancy can and will often result in an abortion. The root of the abortion debate is not about "babies dying"- it is generally about the supposed "fall of morality" because people have sex prior to getting married. Lets just please face the facts for what they are, here.
Don't need it. I do NOT need someone to treat me like garbage (AGAIN- 14 years later) for making a decision that cant be reversed. I am a good mother. I do not NEED you to tell me how fucking emotional abortion is. I have had one. You never EVER will face making a choice like that, so dont you DARE try to preach to me about the emotional side of abortion. Let it GO, and debate the ACTUAL FACTS. I am not going to get PTSD because people like you have a problem with the fact that my uterus is the one thing in the world you men cannot control, and that it drives you nuts that it does not come with a freaking remote. (From Roseanne) If you DARE to act like I am some sort of SOCIOPATH who has NOT spent the past 10 years educating myself on all of the various aspects of abortion, emotional, religious, and physical- then you my friend are in for a fucking treat. Dont DO it. THAT will make you a MEAN person, and the JERK that you do not "intend" to be.
Thanks. I am currently a little pissed off about the last quoted comment blimp, so forgive me if I don't kiss your ass for giving me a compliment. I know my worth, and I do not get it from compliments from total strangers, but thank you, still.
I think you mis-understood me. I can't fault you for that. I won't hold anything against you and I look forward to educating you in the future.
Immie
But dont you DARE think that you can throw out ad hominem attacks like insinuating that I am some sociopath with the Emotional IQ of a peanut. I will not have it. THIS:
will simply not be tolerated, do I make myself crystal clear, Immie?
Please tell me you are NOT serious about your interpretation of the Bible.
So, if you would plant a seed, would you turn around and destroy what you have planted before it sprouts?
Also, why would God say "be fruitful and multiply" (Genesis 35:11) and then say it is okay to selectively sabotage your OWN fruitful womb?
What sin is that?
They willingly do it all the time. We even have a term for it: ADOPTION
And if the mother chooses to keep it instead of having it aborted and can't manage on her own there are welfare programs, state and federal to assist, designed and committed specifically for mothers and infant children.
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That's the stupidest post of the year to date.
JD_2B
Little Vixen
Negative. You use sarcasm one minute, and then expect people to see when you are not being sarcastic the next.. And yes, you have belittled me personally.. which is really irrelevant here, because the fact remains that in the last 4 or 5 responses I have gotten from you, I have not seen any substance, only emotional rhetoric and whining.
I was once called a "waffler" because I was pro life, then turned pro choice when I found out I was pregnant. Then I saw some of those pictures of fetuses (which psychologists agree stimulate a biologically inherent emotional reaction from anyone) and went to being an angry pro lifer, with all the same thinly veiled ad hominem attacks that I have seen here, from you.. And even I did not do it intentionally. Then someone talked some sense into me and made me realize that it was my emotive reaction to a bunch of pictures causing my feelings to distort the reality... I can assure you- I have been on both sides of the fence. The only problem was, when I was on the pro life side, the logic was so far gone, blocked by emotion, that I had to one day set aside the anger and give the pro choice side the benefit of the doubt and actually LOOK at the verses quoted from the bible, on the websites. I had to verify that they were real. They were real. They still are. Faith prevails, and truth sets you free. Free from hate, and anger and remorse for an act that is not ungodly or unholy.. but supported in a non ambiguous wording by the bible itself, even if it is not specifically addressed. You can feel free to attack my intelligence and the way I have communicated with you, etc, all you want- but that does not change ONE thing about the fact that you JUST ignored (for what, the 3rd time in a row??) the content of the posts I have made, and instead turned everything into some personal battle, which I can assure you, it most certainly is not. I can go have an abortion this afternoon, and your feelings towards is are truly a non concern of mine, lol. I just feel sorry for people who seem to have so much false information and resentment towards this subject, this act.. and I want to help them to clear their minds of that emotional baggage and move forward toward Gods truth.
However, to exercise faith and follow his word, is to constantly seek out the truth.. You can't just believe in God and say that you have all this faith in him, and believe whatever the hell you want to believe. You have to constantly research, privately, and commune with other Christians, too. God says many things regarding the validity of faith- and being a lukewarm christian and distorting the bible, is one thing that he seems to really get pissy about. Also, FAITH is not given by Grace.. That is forgiveness.. We are forgiven by the grace of God. Whether we believe he saves us or not, that is faith.
I hate liars as much as God. Jesus called people out on their iniquity, and I will follow suit and do the same. The foolish man says too much.. The wise man holds his tongue. If you dont have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all, in other words. I, too, have tried to be polite with you, but you simply refuse to assess your own emotional situation here. Instead, you claim you will teach me about the emotional side of abortion??? Yeah thats not rude.. Saying things like "I'm not saying I agree with it, but I don't have any clue as to what your situation was at the time. So, I can say that I understand your decision."- how??How can you understand the first fucking thing about me or my decision? And what gives you the idea that I am seeking your holier than thou approval, anyways??? and that whole first bit- not knowing my situation, so you cant say you agree with it, and all- who gives a flying fuck whether you agree with it or not?? Its not YOUR body, remember??? And when as the last time you and I had sex?? NEVER.. So apparently your subjective fucking opinion MEANS ABSOLUTE ZILCH in this thread. And if you DONT call posts and comments like that to be considered thinly veiled hate/ judgmental speech, I just don't know what is.
I have explained this enough times. If 80% of the animals on the farm are caged, it is not necessarily true that all 80% of the animals caged are the ones going to be butchered.. If half of the animals on the farm are to be butchered, and the other half sheared annually, then maybe ALL of the sheared animals are caged, and a small percentage of the butchered animals are caged. This is the meat of the issue here.. You want to say that OUT of the 100% of the animals to be butchered, since we know that 80% of all animals on the farm are caged, then 80% of the to be butchered animals are caged, and 80% of the sheared animals are caged too. It DOESNT WORK THAT WAY. That is a preposterous assumption based on NOTHING of a logical interest. You are just SOOO pissed that more than 90% out of the 100% of abortions are had by religious people. Get fucking over it.
Wanna talk about the law of averages?? TAKE A MATH CLASS, retard!!!
Assuming by reported religious worldwide beliefs- assuming the world has a population of 1000 people in it- (500 males, 500 females)
80% male population = 400 people PLUS
80% female population = 400 female people
EQUALS
800 total people in the population, HALF of which = 400 females
SOOOO, if 80% of the females of the world are religious that means that only 40% of the world's population, logically, consists of religious females.. BUT out of the female population, we can justly assume that 80% of them are religious, without jumping up and saying "that doesnt make sense- then if 80% of men are religious, too, then 160% of the population would be religious"
THEN you take OUT THIS WHOLE FUCKING RETARDED ASS UNNECESSARY EQUATION and say:
out of the 100% of all abortions recieved, 30% OF ABORTION HAVERS said they were this religion, 22% OF ABORTION HAVERS said this other religion, and 40% OF ABORTION HAVERS said this other fucking religion, and poof! You come to the result of 92% of all WOMEN WHO ABORTED saying that they were religious. Fucking amazing that you DONT see this shit.
Christ- if a million random people around the world were used as guinea pigs in some shaving study, and later polled on religious preference, and 96% reported that they DO have a religious preference, and only 4% said that they do not- would you REALLY apply the argument that "since 80% of the world is religious, then these reports on this one million study participants do not add up" Fucking RETARDED DOUCHEBAG... How many more examples do I have to make???
That is because you are too emotionally handicapped to see the forest for the trees. Not my fault.
I know the damned thing when its in the womb.. That means absolutely nothing but to say that we know we are pregnant. And that we know we are going to get pregnant, because we have sex to make it happen. How is this rocket science???? And fuck you for the comment about averages again, asshole.
Oh and that 30+90 = 100 thing was a result of my MS. I happen to sometimes suck at basic math sometimes (not that I cant add them, I just think of one number and type another one) Fuck I did it again, and put 30 +90 instead of 30+60.. I do that sometimes. I even made a few mistakes on my algebra final, multiplying 5x5 instead of actually working out 5 to the fifth power. My brain has trouble with certain computational abilities, and today and yesterday, I have been having trouble finding words, and even my own Child's name. Thats MS sometimes.. It doesnt usually last longer than a few weeks, though, and it is minor, and shouldn't cause any major problems as long as I pay close attention to it, and ask people to check my work, when I am having an apparent flare up. But that does not negate the fact that you are just being a shithead pissant over this religion percentage. I am right, on that. You HAVE to at LEAST admit that much.
No, I believe that YOU are pro life. When I make vague observations, they are VAGUE, and not referring to you personally. I have said multiple times I am not talking to you in particular, but yet you decide to fall down as if hit by a fucking train over an observation about OTHER pro lifers. Dont blame me for you being an emotional gimp!
Yes I fucking HAVE- and on BOTH SIDES, thank you- I know you wont read any of this anyways, just probably take it all personally and fucking cry boo hoo in your next post acting like I am being such a BITCH, and somehow deserve to be called such, because *you* CANT GET YOUR STATS RIGHT, and *I* am fucking tired of playing TEACHER and SCAPEGOAT for your own INTERNAL emotional drama and communication incompetence.
Fine, but please stop making this into some cat and mouse tit for tat bullshit game of "playing victim", because it is getting REALLY OLD.
Its about damn time.
Believe whatever statistics you want. You are still just spouting hyperbole nonsense because YOU do not understand that OUT OF 100% of people WHO abort (not 100% of the world, but 100% of people who abort) that more than 80% claimed to be religious. Get fucking over it.
The only thing protected by HIPPAA is case specific information, not the statistical data, which patients agree to allow to be used. I agree that not all states even report, but it stands to figure that out of the data received from the vast majority of the ones that DO report, the religious statistics are (approximately) correct. Again, most pro life websites accept them as accurately reported- why do you think there is some conspiracy here? It's not like improper reporting of statistics is somehow going to make Abortion illegal. And it is not like any anti abortion website spewing false information will, either..
You are basing all of this on false logic that you cannot get 90% of abortion recipients being religious out of a figure consisting simply of 100% of all abortion recipients anyways. That is absolutely inane, and no reason to spout all this nonsense about the reporting methods... Just more emotional knee-jerking.
Except that in many other parts of the bible, it also says that those who never saw light and had knowledge would also be better off than someone who is depressed. Just like here.
I have. I will be happy to post all the verses on this I can find, after I go pick up my son from his childcare. This is stalling a lot and I have clearly run low on patience..
MS flare up. Already covered it. Fuck you.
And this <3 is not a heart... it is a kiss.
<3 and this is me sticking my tongue out at you:
Immie
Oh for goodness sakes. If you go to Yahoo! Answers, and answer a question, you can do this symbol and make a fucking heart. Loads of people do. A kiss is this:
X
Or this
: x
or even this:
<x>
But is usually involves an X. I will again prove this to you in a later post.. Ciao asshole.
Fuck off.
Immanuel
Gold Member
- May 15, 2007
- 16,828
- 2,269
- 183
Negative. You use sarcasm one minute, and then expect people to see when you are not being sarcastic the next.. And yes, you have belittled me personally.. which is really irrelevant here, because the fact remains that in the last 4 or 5 responses I have gotten from you, I have not seen any substance, only emotional rhetoric and whining.
I was once called a "waffler" because I was pro life, then turned pro choice when I found out I was pregnant. Then I saw some of those pictures of fetuses (which psychologists agree stimulate a biologically inherent emotional reaction from anyone) and went to being an angry pro lifer, with all the same thinly veiled ad hominem attacks that I have seen here, from you.. And even I did not do it intentionally. Then someone talked some sense into me and made me realize that it was my emotive reaction to a bunch of pictures causing my feelings to distort the reality... I can assure you- I have been on both sides of the fence. The only problem was, when I was on the pro life side, the logic was so far gone, blocked by emotion, that I had to one day set aside the anger and give the pro choice side the benefit of the doubt and actually LOOK at the verses quoted from the bible, on the websites. I had to verify that they were real. They were real. They still are. Faith prevails, and truth sets you free. Free from hate, and anger and remorse for an act that is not ungodly or unholy.. but supported in a non ambiguous wording by the bible itself, even if it is not specifically addressed. You can feel free to attack my intelligence and the way I have communicated with you, etc, all you want- but that does not change ONE thing about the fact that you JUST ignored (for what, the 3rd time in a row??) the content of the posts I have made, and instead turned everything into some personal battle, which I can assure you, it most certainly is not. I can go have an abortion this afternoon, and your feelings towards is are truly a non concern of mine, lol. I just feel sorry for people who seem to have so much false information and resentment towards this subject, this act.. and I want to help them to clear their minds of that emotional baggage and move forward toward Gods truth.
However, to exercise faith and follow his word, is to constantly seek out the truth.. You can't just believe in God and say that you have all this faith in him, and believe whatever the hell you want to believe. You have to constantly research, privately, and commune with other Christians, too. God says many things regarding the validity of faith- and being a lukewarm christian and distorting the bible, is one thing that he seems to really get pissy about. Also, FAITH is not given by Grace.. That is forgiveness.. We are forgiven by the grace of God. Whether we believe he saves us or not, that is faith.
I hate liars as much as God. Jesus called people out on their iniquity, and I will follow suit and do the same. The foolish man says too much.. The wise man holds his tongue. If you dont have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all, in other words. I, too, have tried to be polite with you, but you simply refuse to assess your own emotional situation here. Instead, you claim you will teach me about the emotional side of abortion??? Yeah thats not rude.. Saying things like "I'm not saying I agree with it, but I don't have any clue as to what your situation was at the time. So, I can say that I understand your decision."- how??How can you understand the first fucking thing about me or my decision? And what gives you the idea that I am seeking your holier than thou approval, anyways??? and that whole first bit- not knowing my situation, so you cant say you agree with it, and all- who gives a flying fuck whether you agree with it or not?? Its not YOUR body, remember??? And when as the last time you and I had sex?? NEVER.. So apparently your subjective fucking opinion MEANS ABSOLUTE ZILCH in this thread. And if you DONT call posts and comments like that to be considered thinly veiled hate/ judgmental speech, I just don't know what is.
I have explained this enough times. If 80% of the animals on the farm are caged, it is not necessarily true that all 80% of the animals caged are the ones going to be butchered.. If half of the animals on the farm are to be butchered, and the other half sheared annually, then maybe ALL of the sheared animals are caged, and a small percentage of the butchered animals are caged. This is the meat of the issue here.. You want to say that OUT of the 100% of the animals to be butchered, since we know that 80% of all animals on the farm are caged, then 80% of the to be butchered animals are caged, and 80% of the sheared animals are caged too. It DOESNT WORK THAT WAY. That is a preposterous assumption based on NOTHING of a logical interest. You are just SOOO pissed that more than 90% out of the 100% of abortions are had by religious people. Get fucking over it.
Wanna talk about the law of averages?? TAKE A MATH CLASS, retard!!!
Assuming by reported religious worldwide beliefs- assuming the world has a population of 1000 people in it- (500 males, 500 females)
80% male population = 400 people PLUS
80% female population = 400 female people
EQUALS
800 total people in the population, HALF of which = 400 females
SOOOO, if 80% of the females of the world are religious that means that only 40% of the world's population, logically, consists of religious females.. BUT out of the female population, we can justly assume that 80% of them are religious, without jumping up and saying "that doesnt make sense- then if 80% of men are religious, too, then 160% of the population would be religious"
THEN you take OUT THIS WHOLE FUCKING RETARDED ASS UNNECESSARY EQUATION and say:
out of the 100% of all abortions recieved, 30% OF ABORTION HAVERS said they were this religion, 22% OF ABORTION HAVERS said this other religion, and 40% OF ABORTION HAVERS said this other fucking religion, and poof! You come to the result of 92% of all WOMEN WHO ABORTED saying that they were religious. Fucking amazing that you DONT see this shit.
Christ- if a million random people around the world were used as guinea pigs in some shaving study, and later polled on religious preference, and 96% reported that they DO have a religious preference, and only 4% said that they do not- would you REALLY apply the argument that "since 80% of the world is religious, then these reports on this one million study participants do not add up" Fucking RETARDED DOUCHEBAG... How many more examples do I have to make???
That is because you are too emotionally handicapped to see the forest for the trees. Not my fault.
I know the damned thing when its in the womb.. That means absolutely nothing but to say that we know we are pregnant. And that we know we are going to get pregnant, because we have sex to make it happen. How is this rocket science???? And fuck you for the comment about averages again, asshole.
Oh and that 30+90 = 100 thing was a result of my MS. I happen to sometimes suck at basic math sometimes (not that I cant add them, I just think of one number and type another one) Fuck I did it again, and put 30 +90 instead of 30+60.. I do that sometimes. I even made a few mistakes on my algebra final, multiplying 5x5 instead of actually working out 5 to the fifth power. My brain has trouble with certain computational abilities, and today and yesterday, I have been having trouble finding words, and even my own Child's name. Thats MS sometimes.. It doesnt usually last longer than a few weeks, though, and it is minor, and shouldn't cause any major problems as long as I pay close attention to it, and ask people to check my work, when I am having an apparent flare up. But that does not negate the fact that you are just being a shithead pissant over this religion percentage. I am right, on that. You HAVE to at LEAST admit that much.
No, I believe that YOU are pro life. When I make vague observations, they are VAGUE, and not referring to you personally. I have said multiple times I am not talking to you in particular, but yet you decide to fall down as if hit by a fucking train over an observation about OTHER pro lifers. Dont blame me for you being an emotional gimp!
Yes I fucking HAVE- and on BOTH SIDES, thank you- I know you wont read any of this anyways, just probably take it all personally and fucking cry boo hoo in your next post acting like I am being such a BITCH, and somehow deserve to be called such, because *you* CANT GET YOUR STATS RIGHT, and *I* am fucking tired of playing TEACHER and SCAPEGOAT for your own INTERNAL emotional drama and communication incompetence.
Fine, but please stop making this into some cat and mouse tit for tat bullshit game of "playing victim", because it is getting REALLY OLD.
Its about damn time.
Believe whatever statistics you want. You are still just spouting hyperbole nonsense because YOU do not understand that OUT OF 100% of people WHO abort (not 100% of the world, but 100% of people who abort) that more than 80% claimed to be religious. Get fucking over it.
The only thing protected by HIPPAA is case specific information, not the statistical data, which patients agree to allow to be used. I agree that not all states even report, but it stands to figure that out of the data received from the vast majority of the ones that DO report, the religious statistics are (approximately) correct. Again, most pro life websites accept them as accurately reported- why do you think there is some conspiracy here? It's not like improper reporting of statistics is somehow going to make Abortion illegal. And it is not like any anti abortion website spewing false information will, either..
You are basing all of this on false logic that you cannot get 90% of abortion recipients being religious out of a figure consisting simply of 100% of all abortion recipients anyways. That is absolutely inane, and no reason to spout all this nonsense about the reporting methods... Just more emotional knee-jerking.
Except that in many other parts of the bible, it also says that those who never saw light and had knowledge would also be better off than someone who is depressed. Just like here.
I have. I will be happy to post all the verses on this I can find, after I go pick up my son from his childcare. This is stalling a lot and I have clearly run low on patience..
MS flare up. Already covered it. Fuck you.
And this <3 is not a heart... it is a kiss.
<3 and this is me sticking my tongue out at you:
Immie
Oh for goodness sakes. If you go to Yahoo! Answers, and answer a question, you can do this symbol and make a fucking heart. Loads of people do. A kiss is this:
X
Or this
: x
or even this:
<x>
But is usually involves an X. I will again prove this to you in a later post.. Ciao asshole.
Fuck off.
No, fuck you, bitch.
I have to ask, did you get your paralegal degree online. Obviously you don't have the intelligence to actually make it though a full fledged course. Don't bother with law school, I predict you will flunk out in the first semester.
Immie
Immie
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JD_2B
Little Vixen
Job 8:1-3 (New International Version)
Job 8
Bildad
1 Then Bildad the Shuhite replied:
2 "How long will you say such things?
Your words are a blustering wind.
3 Does God pervert justice?
Does the Almighty pervert what is right?
Job 16:2-4 (New International Version)
2 "I have heard many things like these;
miserable comforters are you all!
3 Will your long-winded speeches never end?
What ails you that you keep on arguing?
4 I also could speak like you,
if you were in my place;
I could make fine speeches against you
and shake my head at you.
Ecclesiastes 8:7-9 (New International Version)
7 Since no man knows the future,
who can tell him what is to come?
8 No man has power over the wind to contain it [a] ;
so no one has power over the day of his death.
As no one is discharged in time of war,
so wickedness will not release those who practice it.
9 All this I saw, as I applied my mind to everything done under the sun. There is a time when a man lords it over others to his own hurt.
Ecclesiastes 11:5 (New International Version)
5 As you do not know the path of the wind,
or how the body is formed [a] in a mother's womb,
so you cannot understand the work of God,
the Maker of all things.
Isaiah 26:17-18 (New International Version)
17 As a woman with child and about to give birth
writhes and cries out in her pain,
so were we in your presence, O LORD.
18 We were with child, we writhed in pain,
but we gave birth to wind.
We have not brought salvation to the earth;
we have not given birth to people of the world.
Jeremiah 2:23-25 (New International Version)
23 "How can you say, 'I am not defiled;
I have not run after the Baals'?
See how you behaved in the valley;
consider what you have done.
You are a swift she-camel
running here and there,
24 a wild donkey accustomed to the desert,
sniffing the wind in her craving
in her heat who can restrain her?
Any males that pursue her need not tire themselves;
at mating time they will find her.
25 Do not run until your feet are bare
and your throat is dry.
But you said, 'It's no use!
I love foreign gods,
and I must go after them.'
Jeremiah 5:12-14 (New International Version)
12 They have lied about the LORD;
they said, "He will do nothing!
No harm will come to us;
we will never see sword or famine.
13 The prophets are but wind
and the word is not in them;
so let what they say be done to them."
14 Therefore this is what the LORD God Almighty says:
"Because the people have spoken these words,
I will make my words in your mouth a fire
and these people the wood it consumes.
Ezekiel 37:8-10 (New International Version)
8 I looked, and tendons and flesh appeared on them and skin covered them, but there was no breath in them.
9 Then he said to me, "Prophesy to the breath; prophesy, son of man, and say to it, 'This is what the Sovereign LORD says: Come from the four winds, O breath, and breathe into these slain, that they may live.' " 10 So I prophesied as he commanded me, and breath entered them; they came to life and stood up on their feeta vast army.
Amos 4 (New International Version)
6 "I gave you empty stomachs [c] in every city
and lack of bread in every town,
yet you have not returned to me,"
declares the LORD.
7 "I also withheld rain from you
when the harvest was still three months away.
I sent rain on one town,
but withheld it from another.
One field had rain;
another had none and dried up.
8 People staggered from town to town for water
but did not get enough to drink,
yet you have not returned to me,"
declares the LORD.
9 "Many times I struck your gardens and vineyards,
I struck them with blight and mildew.
Locusts devoured your fig and olive trees,
yet you have not returned to me,"
declares the LORD.
10 "I sent plagues among you
as I did to Egypt.
I killed your young men with the sword,
along with your captured horses.
I filled your nostrils with the stench of your camps,
yet you have not returned to me,"
declares the LORD.
11 "I overthrew some of you
as I [d] overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah.
You were like a burning stick snatched from the fire,
yet you have not returned to me,"
declares the LORD.
12 "Therefore this is what I will do to you, Israel,
and because I will do this to you,
prepare to meet your God, O Israel."
13 He who forms the mountains,
creates the wind,
and reveals his thoughts to man,
he who turns dawn to darkness,
and treads the high places of the earth
the LORD God Almighty is his name.
John 3:7-9 (New International Version)
7You should not be surprised at my saying, 'You[a] must be born again.' 8The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit."
Ephesians 4:13-15 (New International Version)
13until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ.
14Then we will no longer be infants, tossed back and forth by the waves, and blown here and there by every wind of teaching and by the cunning and craftiness of men in their deceitful scheming. 15Instead, speaking the truth in love, we will in all things grow up into him who is the Head, that is, Christ.
Genesis 2:7
the LORD God formed the man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being.
Genesis 3:20
Adam named his wife Eve, because she would become the mother of all the living.
Genesis 7:21
Every living thing that moved on the earth perishedbirds, livestock, wild animals, all the creatures that swarm over the earth, and all mankind.
Genesis 9:15
I will remember my covenant between me and you and all living creatures of every kind. Never again will the waters become a flood to destroy all life.
Exodus 12:49
The same law applies to the native-born and to the alien living among you."
Exodus 12:48
"An alien living among you who wants to celebrate the LORD's Passover must have all the males in his household circumcised; then he may take part like one born in the land. No uncircumcised male may eat of it.
Leviticus 11:46
" 'These are the regulations concerning animals, birds, every living thing that moves in the water and every creature that moves about [/b]on the ground.[/b]
Leviticus 25:45
You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property.
Numbers 13:31-33 (New International Version)
31 But the men who had gone up with him said, "We can't attack those people; they are stronger than we are." 32 And they spread among the Israelites a bad report about the land they had explored. They said, "The land we explored devours those living in it. All the people we saw there are of great size. 33 We saw the Nephilim there (the descendants of Anak come from the Nephilim). We seemed like grasshoppers in our own eyes, and we looked the same to them."
Judges 21:10
So the assembly sent twelve thousand fighting men with instructions to go to Jabesh Gilead and put to the sword those living there, including the women and children.
2 Samuel 7
God's Promise to David
1 After the king was settled in his palace and the LORD had given him rest from all his enemies around him, 2 he said to Nathan the prophet, "Here I am, living in a palace of cedar, while the ark of God remains in a tent."
2 Samuel 12 (New International Version)
Nathan Rebukes David
13 Then David said to Nathan, "I have sinned against the LORD."
Nathan replied, "The LORD has taken away your sin. You are not going to die. 14 But because by doing this you have made the enemies of the LORD show utter contempt, [a] the son born to you will die."
15 After Nathan had gone home, the LORD struck the child that Uriah's wife had borne to David, and he became ill. 16 David pleaded with God for the child. He fasted and went into his house and spent the nights lying on the ground. 17 The elders of his household stood beside him to get him up from the ground, but he refused, and he would not eat any food with them.
18 On the seventh day the child died. David's servants were afraid to tell him that the child was dead, for they thought, "While the child was still living, we spoke to David but he would not listen to us. How can we tell him the child is dead? He may do something desperate."
1 Kings 3 (New International Version)
A Wise Ruling
16 Now two prostitutes came to the king and stood before him. 17 One of them said, "My lord, this woman and I live in the same house. I had a baby while she was there with me. 18 The third day after my child was born, this woman also had a baby. We were alone; there was no one in the house but the two of us.
19 "During the night this woman's son died because she lay on him. 20 So she got up in the middle of the night and took my son from my side while I your servant was asleep. She put him by her breast and put her dead son by my breast. 21 The next morning, I got up to nurse my sonand he was dead! But when I looked at him closely in the morning light, I saw that it wasn't the son I had borne."
22 The other woman said, "No! The living one is my son; the dead one is yours."
But the first one insisted, "No! The dead one is yours; the living one is mine." And so they argued before the king.
23 The king said, "This one says, 'My son is alive and your son is dead,' while that one says, 'No! Your son is dead and mine is alive.' "
24 Then the king said, "Bring me a sword." So they brought a sword for the king. 25 He then gave an order: "Cut the living child in two and give half to one and half to the other."
26 The woman whose son was alive was filled with compassion for her son and said to the king, "Please, my lord, give her the living baby! Don't kill him!"
But the other said, "Neither I nor you shall have him. Cut him in two!"
27 Then the king gave his ruling: "Give the living baby to the first woman. Do not kill him; she is his mother."
28 When all Israel heard the verdict the king had given, they held the king in awe, because they saw that he had wisdom from God to administer justice.
Job 22:7-9 (New International Version)
7 You gave no water to the weary
and you withheld food from the hungry,
8 though you were a powerful man, owning land
an honored man, living on it.
9 And you sent widows away empty-handed
and broke the strength of the fatherless.
Job 28:12-14 (New International Version)
12 "But where can wisdom be found?
Where does understanding dwell?
13 Man does not comprehend its worth;
it cannot be found in the land of the living.
14 The deep says, 'It is not in me';
the sea says, 'It is not with me.'
Job 30:23
I know you will bring me down to death, to the place appointed for all the living.
Psalm 27:12-14 (New International Version)
12 Do not turn me over to the desire of my foes,
for false witnesses rise up against me,
breathing out violence.
13 I am still confident of this:
I will see the goodness of the LORD
in the land of the living.
14 Wait for the LORD;
be strong and take heart
and wait for the LORD.
Psalm 52:4-6 (New International Version)
5 Surely God will bring you down to everlasting ruin:
He will snatch you up and tear you from your tent;
he will uproot you from the land of the living.
6 The righteous will see and fear;
they will laugh at him
Psalm 104:24-26 (New International Version)
24 How many are your works, O LORD!
In wisdom you made them all;
the earth is full of your creatures.
25 There is the sea, vast and spacious,
teeming with creatures beyond number
living things both large and small.
26 There the ships go to and fro,
and the leviathan, which you formed to frolic there.
Psalm 116:8-10 (New International Version)
8 For you, O LORD, have delivered my soul from death,
my eyes from tears,
my feet from stumbling,
9 that I may walk before the LORD
in the land of the living.
10 I believed; therefore [a] I said,
"I am greatly afflicted."
2 Do not bring your servant into judgment,
for no one living is righteous before you.
Psalm 143:2-3 (New International Version)
3 The enemy pursues me,
he crushes me to the ground;
he makes me dwell in darkness
like those long dead.
Ecclesiastes 4
Oppression, Toil, Friendlessness
1 Again I looked and saw all the oppression that was taking place under the sun:
I saw the tears of the oppressed
and they have no comforter;
power was on the side of their oppressors
and they have no comforter.
2 And I declared that the dead,
who had already died,
are happier than the living,
who are still alive.
3 But better than both
is he who has not yet been,
who has not seen the evil
that is done under the sun.
Isaiah 38:18-20 (New International Version)
18 For the grave [a] cannot praise you,
death cannot sing your praise;
those who go down to the pit
cannot hope for your faithfulness.
19 The living, the livingthey praise you,
as I am doing today;
fathers tell their children
about your faithfulness.
20 The LORD will save me,
and we will sing with stringed instruments
all the days of our lives
in the temple of the LORD.
eremiah 2:12-14 (New International Version)
12 Be appalled at this, O heavens,
and shudder with great horror,"
declares the LORD.
13 "My people have committed two sins:
They have forsaken me,
the spring of living water,
and have dug their own cisterns,
broken cisterns that cannot hold water.
14 Is Israel a servant, a slave by birth?
Why then has he become plunder?
Lamentations 3 gives an acrostic poem of the Hebrew alphabet, but it could be considered akin to the Lord causing people to abort by choice:
Lamentations 3 - Passage Lookup - New International Version - BibleGateway.com
1 Corinthians 15
The Resurrection of Christ
1Now, brothers, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand. 2By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.
3For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance[a]: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, 5and that he appeared to Peter, and then to the Twelve. 6After that, he appeared to more than five hundred of the brothers at the same time, most of whom are still living, though some have fallen asleep. 7Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles, 8and last of all he appeared to me also, as to one abnormally born.
35But someone may ask, "How are the dead raised? With what kind of body will they come?" 36How foolish! What you sow does not come to life unless it dies. 37When you sow, you do not plant the body that will be, but just a seed, perhaps of wheat or of something else. 38But God gives it a body as he has determined, and to each kind of seed he gives its own body. 39All flesh is not the same: Men have one kind of flesh, animals have another, birds another and fish another. 40There are also heavenly bodies and there are earthly bodies; but the splendor of the heavenly bodies is one kind, and the splendor of the earthly bodies is another. 41The sun has one kind of splendor, the moon another and the stars another; and star differs from star in splendor.
1 Corinthians 15 (New International Version
20But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 21For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man. 22For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. 23But each in his own turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him.
29Now if there is no resurrection, what will those do who are baptized for the dead? If the dead are not raised at all, why are people baptized for them? 30And as for us, why do we endanger ourselves every hour? 31I die every dayI mean that, brothersjust as surely as I glory over you in Christ Jesus our Lord. 32If I fought wild beasts in Ephesus for merely human reasons, what have I gained? If the dead are not raised,
"Let us eat and drink,
for tomorrow we die."[d] 33Do not be misled: "Bad company corrupts good character." 34Come back to your senses as you ought, and stop sinning; for there are some who are ignorant of GodI say this to your shame.
42So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable; 43it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; 44it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body.
If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. 45So it is written: "The first man Adam became a living being"[e]; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit. 46The spiritual did not come first, but the natural, and after that the spiritual. 47The first man was of the dust of the earth, the second man from heaven. 48As was the earthly man, so are those who are of the earth; and as is the man from heaven, so also are those who are of heaven. 49And just as we have borne the likeness of the earthly man, so shall we[f] bear the likeness of the man from heaven.
1 Peter 4
Living for God
1Therefore, since Christ suffered in his body, arm yourselves also with the same attitude, because he who has suffered in his body is done with sin. 2As a result, he does not live the rest of his earthly life for evil human desires, but rather for the will of God.
Revelation 4:6-8 (New International Version)
7The first living creature was like a lion, the second was like an ox, the third had a face like a man, the fourth was like a flying eagle
Deuteronomy 32
18 You deserted the Rock, who fathered you;
you forgot the God who gave you birth.
39 "See now that I myself am He!
There is no god besides me.
I put to death and I bring to life,
I have wounded and I will heal,
and no one can deliver out of my hand.
Lastly, though not human, but crocodile- it is said (same as a woman carrying a pregnancy, in many respects- regarding either her or the fetus it can be reasoned here)
16 each is so close to the next
that no air can pass between.
23 The folds of his flesh are tightly joined;
they are firm and immovable.
6 Will traders barter for him?
Will they divide him up among the merchants?
32 Behind him he leaves a glistening wake;
one would think the deep had white hair.
3 Will he keep begging you for mercy?
Will he speak to you with gentle words?
33 Nothing on earth is his equal
a creature without fear.
Job 8
Bildad
1 Then Bildad the Shuhite replied:
2 "How long will you say such things?
Your words are a blustering wind.
3 Does God pervert justice?
Does the Almighty pervert what is right?
Job 16:2-4 (New International Version)
2 "I have heard many things like these;
miserable comforters are you all!
3 Will your long-winded speeches never end?
What ails you that you keep on arguing?
4 I also could speak like you,
if you were in my place;
I could make fine speeches against you
and shake my head at you.
Ecclesiastes 8:7-9 (New International Version)
7 Since no man knows the future,
who can tell him what is to come?
8 No man has power over the wind to contain it [a] ;
so no one has power over the day of his death.
As no one is discharged in time of war,
so wickedness will not release those who practice it.
9 All this I saw, as I applied my mind to everything done under the sun. There is a time when a man lords it over others to his own hurt.
Ecclesiastes 11:5 (New International Version)
5 As you do not know the path of the wind,
or how the body is formed [a] in a mother's womb,
so you cannot understand the work of God,
the Maker of all things.
Isaiah 26:17-18 (New International Version)
17 As a woman with child and about to give birth
writhes and cries out in her pain,
so were we in your presence, O LORD.
18 We were with child, we writhed in pain,
but we gave birth to wind.
We have not brought salvation to the earth;
we have not given birth to people of the world.
Jeremiah 2:23-25 (New International Version)
23 "How can you say, 'I am not defiled;
I have not run after the Baals'?
See how you behaved in the valley;
consider what you have done.
You are a swift she-camel
running here and there,
24 a wild donkey accustomed to the desert,
sniffing the wind in her craving
in her heat who can restrain her?
Any males that pursue her need not tire themselves;
at mating time they will find her.
25 Do not run until your feet are bare
and your throat is dry.
But you said, 'It's no use!
I love foreign gods,
and I must go after them.'
Jeremiah 5:12-14 (New International Version)
12 They have lied about the LORD;
they said, "He will do nothing!
No harm will come to us;
we will never see sword or famine.
13 The prophets are but wind
and the word is not in them;
so let what they say be done to them."
14 Therefore this is what the LORD God Almighty says:
"Because the people have spoken these words,
I will make my words in your mouth a fire
and these people the wood it consumes.
Ezekiel 37:8-10 (New International Version)
8 I looked, and tendons and flesh appeared on them and skin covered them, but there was no breath in them.
9 Then he said to me, "Prophesy to the breath; prophesy, son of man, and say to it, 'This is what the Sovereign LORD says: Come from the four winds, O breath, and breathe into these slain, that they may live.' " 10 So I prophesied as he commanded me, and breath entered them; they came to life and stood up on their feeta vast army.
Amos 4 (New International Version)
6 "I gave you empty stomachs [c] in every city
and lack of bread in every town,
yet you have not returned to me,"
declares the LORD.
7 "I also withheld rain from you
when the harvest was still three months away.
I sent rain on one town,
but withheld it from another.
One field had rain;
another had none and dried up.
8 People staggered from town to town for water
but did not get enough to drink,
yet you have not returned to me,"
declares the LORD.
9 "Many times I struck your gardens and vineyards,
I struck them with blight and mildew.
Locusts devoured your fig and olive trees,
yet you have not returned to me,"
declares the LORD.
10 "I sent plagues among you
as I did to Egypt.
I killed your young men with the sword,
along with your captured horses.
I filled your nostrils with the stench of your camps,
yet you have not returned to me,"
declares the LORD.
11 "I overthrew some of you
as I [d] overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah.
You were like a burning stick snatched from the fire,
yet you have not returned to me,"
declares the LORD.
12 "Therefore this is what I will do to you, Israel,
and because I will do this to you,
prepare to meet your God, O Israel."
13 He who forms the mountains,
creates the wind,
and reveals his thoughts to man,
he who turns dawn to darkness,
and treads the high places of the earth
the LORD God Almighty is his name.
John 3:7-9 (New International Version)
7You should not be surprised at my saying, 'You[a] must be born again.' 8The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit."
Ephesians 4:13-15 (New International Version)
13until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ.
14Then we will no longer be infants, tossed back and forth by the waves, and blown here and there by every wind of teaching and by the cunning and craftiness of men in their deceitful scheming. 15Instead, speaking the truth in love, we will in all things grow up into him who is the Head, that is, Christ.
Genesis 2:7
the LORD God formed the man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being.
Genesis 3:20
Adam named his wife Eve, because she would become the mother of all the living.
Genesis 7:21
Every living thing that moved on the earth perishedbirds, livestock, wild animals, all the creatures that swarm over the earth, and all mankind.
Genesis 9:15
I will remember my covenant between me and you and all living creatures of every kind. Never again will the waters become a flood to destroy all life.
Exodus 12:49
The same law applies to the native-born and to the alien living among you."
Exodus 12:48
"An alien living among you who wants to celebrate the LORD's Passover must have all the males in his household circumcised; then he may take part like one born in the land. No uncircumcised male may eat of it.
Leviticus 11:46
" 'These are the regulations concerning animals, birds, every living thing that moves in the water and every creature that moves about [/b]on the ground.[/b]
Leviticus 25:45
You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property.
Numbers 13:31-33 (New International Version)
31 But the men who had gone up with him said, "We can't attack those people; they are stronger than we are." 32 And they spread among the Israelites a bad report about the land they had explored. They said, "The land we explored devours those living in it. All the people we saw there are of great size. 33 We saw the Nephilim there (the descendants of Anak come from the Nephilim). We seemed like grasshoppers in our own eyes, and we looked the same to them."
Judges 21:10
So the assembly sent twelve thousand fighting men with instructions to go to Jabesh Gilead and put to the sword those living there, including the women and children.
2 Samuel 7
God's Promise to David
1 After the king was settled in his palace and the LORD had given him rest from all his enemies around him, 2 he said to Nathan the prophet, "Here I am, living in a palace of cedar, while the ark of God remains in a tent."
2 Samuel 12 (New International Version)
Nathan Rebukes David
13 Then David said to Nathan, "I have sinned against the LORD."
Nathan replied, "The LORD has taken away your sin. You are not going to die. 14 But because by doing this you have made the enemies of the LORD show utter contempt, [a] the son born to you will die."
15 After Nathan had gone home, the LORD struck the child that Uriah's wife had borne to David, and he became ill. 16 David pleaded with God for the child. He fasted and went into his house and spent the nights lying on the ground. 17 The elders of his household stood beside him to get him up from the ground, but he refused, and he would not eat any food with them.
18 On the seventh day the child died. David's servants were afraid to tell him that the child was dead, for they thought, "While the child was still living, we spoke to David but he would not listen to us. How can we tell him the child is dead? He may do something desperate."
1 Kings 3 (New International Version)
A Wise Ruling
16 Now two prostitutes came to the king and stood before him. 17 One of them said, "My lord, this woman and I live in the same house. I had a baby while she was there with me. 18 The third day after my child was born, this woman also had a baby. We were alone; there was no one in the house but the two of us.
19 "During the night this woman's son died because she lay on him. 20 So she got up in the middle of the night and took my son from my side while I your servant was asleep. She put him by her breast and put her dead son by my breast. 21 The next morning, I got up to nurse my sonand he was dead! But when I looked at him closely in the morning light, I saw that it wasn't the son I had borne."
22 The other woman said, "No! The living one is my son; the dead one is yours."
But the first one insisted, "No! The dead one is yours; the living one is mine." And so they argued before the king.
23 The king said, "This one says, 'My son is alive and your son is dead,' while that one says, 'No! Your son is dead and mine is alive.' "
24 Then the king said, "Bring me a sword." So they brought a sword for the king. 25 He then gave an order: "Cut the living child in two and give half to one and half to the other."
26 The woman whose son was alive was filled with compassion for her son and said to the king, "Please, my lord, give her the living baby! Don't kill him!"
But the other said, "Neither I nor you shall have him. Cut him in two!"
27 Then the king gave his ruling: "Give the living baby to the first woman. Do not kill him; she is his mother."
28 When all Israel heard the verdict the king had given, they held the king in awe, because they saw that he had wisdom from God to administer justice.
Job 22:7-9 (New International Version)
7 You gave no water to the weary
and you withheld food from the hungry,
8 though you were a powerful man, owning land
an honored man, living on it.
9 And you sent widows away empty-handed
and broke the strength of the fatherless.
Job 28:12-14 (New International Version)
12 "But where can wisdom be found?
Where does understanding dwell?
13 Man does not comprehend its worth;
it cannot be found in the land of the living.
14 The deep says, 'It is not in me';
the sea says, 'It is not with me.'
Job 30:23
I know you will bring me down to death, to the place appointed for all the living.
Psalm 27:12-14 (New International Version)
12 Do not turn me over to the desire of my foes,
for false witnesses rise up against me,
breathing out violence.
13 I am still confident of this:
I will see the goodness of the LORD
in the land of the living.
14 Wait for the LORD;
be strong and take heart
and wait for the LORD.
Psalm 52:4-6 (New International Version)
5 Surely God will bring you down to everlasting ruin:
He will snatch you up and tear you from your tent;
he will uproot you from the land of the living.
6 The righteous will see and fear;
they will laugh at him
Psalm 104:24-26 (New International Version)
24 How many are your works, O LORD!
In wisdom you made them all;
the earth is full of your creatures.
25 There is the sea, vast and spacious,
teeming with creatures beyond number
living things both large and small.
26 There the ships go to and fro,
and the leviathan, which you formed to frolic there.
Psalm 116:8-10 (New International Version)
8 For you, O LORD, have delivered my soul from death,
my eyes from tears,
my feet from stumbling,
9 that I may walk before the LORD
in the land of the living.
10 I believed; therefore [a] I said,
"I am greatly afflicted."
2 Do not bring your servant into judgment,
for no one living is righteous before you.
Psalm 143:2-3 (New International Version)
3 The enemy pursues me,
he crushes me to the ground;
he makes me dwell in darkness
like those long dead.
Ecclesiastes 4
Oppression, Toil, Friendlessness
1 Again I looked and saw all the oppression that was taking place under the sun:
I saw the tears of the oppressed
and they have no comforter;
power was on the side of their oppressors
and they have no comforter.
2 And I declared that the dead,
who had already died,
are happier than the living,
who are still alive.
3 But better than both
is he who has not yet been,
who has not seen the evil
that is done under the sun.
Isaiah 38:18-20 (New International Version)
18 For the grave [a] cannot praise you,
death cannot sing your praise;
those who go down to the pit
cannot hope for your faithfulness.
19 The living, the livingthey praise you,
as I am doing today;
fathers tell their children
about your faithfulness.
20 The LORD will save me,
and we will sing with stringed instruments
all the days of our lives
in the temple of the LORD.
eremiah 2:12-14 (New International Version)
12 Be appalled at this, O heavens,
and shudder with great horror,"
declares the LORD.
13 "My people have committed two sins:
They have forsaken me,
the spring of living water,
and have dug their own cisterns,
broken cisterns that cannot hold water.
14 Is Israel a servant, a slave by birth?
Why then has he become plunder?
Lamentations 3 gives an acrostic poem of the Hebrew alphabet, but it could be considered akin to the Lord causing people to abort by choice:
Lamentations 3 - Passage Lookup - New International Version - BibleGateway.com
1 Corinthians 15
The Resurrection of Christ
1Now, brothers, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand. 2By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.
3For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance[a]: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, 5and that he appeared to Peter, and then to the Twelve. 6After that, he appeared to more than five hundred of the brothers at the same time, most of whom are still living, though some have fallen asleep. 7Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles, 8and last of all he appeared to me also, as to one abnormally born.
35But someone may ask, "How are the dead raised? With what kind of body will they come?" 36How foolish! What you sow does not come to life unless it dies. 37When you sow, you do not plant the body that will be, but just a seed, perhaps of wheat or of something else. 38But God gives it a body as he has determined, and to each kind of seed he gives its own body. 39All flesh is not the same: Men have one kind of flesh, animals have another, birds another and fish another. 40There are also heavenly bodies and there are earthly bodies; but the splendor of the heavenly bodies is one kind, and the splendor of the earthly bodies is another. 41The sun has one kind of splendor, the moon another and the stars another; and star differs from star in splendor.
1 Corinthians 15 (New International Version
20But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 21For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man. 22For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. 23But each in his own turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him.
29Now if there is no resurrection, what will those do who are baptized for the dead? If the dead are not raised at all, why are people baptized for them? 30And as for us, why do we endanger ourselves every hour? 31I die every dayI mean that, brothersjust as surely as I glory over you in Christ Jesus our Lord. 32If I fought wild beasts in Ephesus for merely human reasons, what have I gained? If the dead are not raised,
"Let us eat and drink,
for tomorrow we die."[d] 33Do not be misled: "Bad company corrupts good character." 34Come back to your senses as you ought, and stop sinning; for there are some who are ignorant of GodI say this to your shame.
42So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable; 43it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; 44it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body.
If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. 45So it is written: "The first man Adam became a living being"[e]; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit. 46The spiritual did not come first, but the natural, and after that the spiritual. 47The first man was of the dust of the earth, the second man from heaven. 48As was the earthly man, so are those who are of the earth; and as is the man from heaven, so also are those who are of heaven. 49And just as we have borne the likeness of the earthly man, so shall we[f] bear the likeness of the man from heaven.
1 Peter 4
Living for God
1Therefore, since Christ suffered in his body, arm yourselves also with the same attitude, because he who has suffered in his body is done with sin. 2As a result, he does not live the rest of his earthly life for evil human desires, but rather for the will of God.
Revelation 4:6-8 (New International Version)
7The first living creature was like a lion, the second was like an ox, the third had a face like a man, the fourth was like a flying eagle
Deuteronomy 32
18 You deserted the Rock, who fathered you;
you forgot the God who gave you birth.
39 "See now that I myself am He!
There is no god besides me.
I put to death and I bring to life,
I have wounded and I will heal,
and no one can deliver out of my hand.
Lastly, though not human, but crocodile- it is said (same as a woman carrying a pregnancy, in many respects- regarding either her or the fetus it can be reasoned here)
16 each is so close to the next
that no air can pass between.
23 The folds of his flesh are tightly joined;
they are firm and immovable.
6 Will traders barter for him?
Will they divide him up among the merchants?
32 Behind him he leaves a glistening wake;
one would think the deep had white hair.
3 Will he keep begging you for mercy?
Will he speak to you with gentle words?
33 Nothing on earth is his equal
a creature without fear.
JD_2B
Little Vixen
And SINCE I have clearly just proven you wrong on ALL accounts of this miserable thread and all the rhetoric it entails (including posting all the bible verses- in case this particular post shows up on the next page, anyways) I hardly think you have a leg to stand on, to insinuate that I took my classes online. I have a degree, and I earned it fair and square, which is more than I can say for you.
PS- you don't have to quote the last thing said, to just SAY something inflammatory- you can just go down to "quick reply" and say it. Why make the little scroll bar any longer than it needs to be? Retarded!!!
PS- you don't have to quote the last thing said, to just SAY something inflammatory- you can just go down to "quick reply" and say it. Why make the little scroll bar any longer than it needs to be? Retarded!!!
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