Privacy vs Security : Europe vs USA

[Procrustes Stretched]

Privacy vs Security : Europe vs USA

Do European governments have a stronger commitment to, and do a better job of, protecting and valuing the privacy rights and concerns of their citizens, where security issues collide with privacy?

It some times looks that way, regardless of who is in power in the USA? What is it about the USA that allows or encourages governments to act in this way?

Or do you disagree, and why?

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

privacy vs security : Europe vs usa

do european governments have a stronger commitment to, and do a better job of, protecting and valuing the privacy rights and concerns of their citizens, where security issues collide with privacy?

It some times looks that way, regardless of who is in power in the usa? What is it about the usa that allows or encourages governments to act in this way?

Or do you disagree, and why?

nyt...

brussels - the european parliament on thursday broadly rejected an agreement with the united states on sharing information on bank transfers that was aimed at tracking suspected terrorists through their finances.

The vote in strasbourg, france, underlined differences between the united states and the european union over how to balance guarantees of personal privacy with concerns about national and international security.

Many members of the parliament complained that the agreement - meant to last for nine months while a more permanent arrangement was sought - failed to guarantee the privacy rights of european citizens.

 

[Oldandtired]

privacy vs security : Europe vs usa

do european governments have a stronger commitment to, and do a better job of, protecting and valuing the privacy rights and concerns of their citizens, where security issues collide with privacy?

It some times looks that way, regardless of who is in power in the usa? What is it about the usa that allows or encourages governments to act in this way?

Or do you disagree, and why?

nyt...

brussels - the european parliament on thursday broadly rejected an agreement with the united states on sharing information on bank transfers that was aimed at tracking suspected terrorists through their finances.

The vote in strasbourg, france, underlined differences between the united states and the european union over how to balance guarantees of personal privacy with concerns about national and international security.

Many members of the parliament complained that the agreement - meant to last for nine months while a more permanent arrangement was sought - failed to guarantee the privacy rights of european citizens.

An interesting topic and one that deserves a debate.

Alas, people prefer to bash Palin. Go figure.

Not sure if I agree or disagree......Seems the US is unwilling to sacrifice many liberties for the return of security as well....

 

[Oldandtired]

Sadly, a valid debate goes untouched.

I guess Palin bashing and corpsemen get the draw.

 

[Darkwind]

I don't know that I see how 'complaining' that the agreement has failed to protect the privacy of European citizens actually IS violating the privacy of European citizens.

I have to wonder how they reconcile that complaint with the same practices of requiring corporations and other assorted rich people to report the movement of large sums of money.

In the United States, the current President has actually threatened foreign banks if they did not divulge to them the account balances of citizens of this country.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

privacy vs security : Europe vs usa

do european governments have a stronger commitment to, and do a better job of, protecting and valuing the privacy rights and concerns of their citizens, where security issues collide with privacy?

It some times looks that way, regardless of who is in power in the usa? What is it about the usa that allows or encourages governments to act in this way?

Or do you disagree, and why?

nyt...

brussels - the european parliament on thursday broadly rejected an agreement with the united states on sharing information on bank transfers that was aimed at tracking suspected terrorists through their finances.

The vote in strasbourg, france, underlined differences between the united states and the european union over how to balance guarantees of personal privacy with concerns about national and international security.

Many members of the parliament complained that the agreement - meant to last for nine months while a more permanent arrangement was sought - failed to guarantee the privacy rights of european citizens.

An interesting topic and one that deserves a debate.

Alas, people prefer to bash Palin. Go figure.

Not sure if I agree or disagree......Seems the US is unwilling to sacrifice many liberties for the return of security as well....

I think in most cases sacrificing liberties for security is a fool's game. Once liberties are freely given up to a government entity, the government entity would not easliy give them back.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

I don't know that I see how 'complaining' that the agreement has failed to protect the privacy of European citizens actually IS violating the privacy of European citizens.

I am unsure what you are saying. The complaint was that the agreement failed to guarantee the privacy rights of European citizens.

I have to wonder how they reconcile that complaint with the same practices of requiring corporations and other assorted rich people to report the movement of large sums of money.

Maybe it's about more than that? The issue was enough a new agreement is being hammered out, so you can assume the practices you mention are far different than those proposed in the new agreement.

In the United States, the current President has actually threatened foreign banks if they did not divulge to them the account balances of citizens of this country.

That is our country keeping track of it's own citizens...still a privacy concern, but nothing like what was proposed.

What are you trying to say?

 

[uscitizen]

Gun ownership in Switzerland is higher in the USA!


I just figured that was sure to come up in this thread and wanted to get it out of the way

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Gun ownership in Switzerland is higher in the USA!


I just figured that was sure to come up in this thread and wanted to get it out of the way

I wonder what percentage of guns are handguns?

Then again, I don't really care.

 

[uscitizen]

Gun ownership in Switzerland is higher in the USA!


I just figured that was sure to come up in this thread and wanted to get it out of the way

I wonder what percentage of guns are handguns?

Then again, I don't really care.

In Switzerland it is mostly military rifles the citizens are issued sitting dusty in closets.

Nice stats to quote though.

 

[Darkwind]

I don't know that I see how 'complaining' that the agreement has failed to protect the privacy of European citizens actually IS violating the privacy of European citizens.

I am unsure what you are saying. The complaint was that the agreement failed to guarantee the privacy rights of European citizens.

I have to wonder how they reconcile that complaint with the same practices of requiring corporations and other assorted rich people to report the movement of large sums of money.

Maybe it's about more than that? The issue was enough a new agreement is being hammered out, so you can assume the practices you mention are far different than those proposed in the new agreement.

In the United States, the current President has actually threatened foreign banks if they did not divulge to them the account balances of citizens of this country.

That is our country keeping track of it's own citizens...still a privacy concern, but nothing like what was proposed.

What are you trying to say?

A complaint does not mean that it is true.

It may be more then that, but they have already shown a willingness to disregard privacy for security.

That is our government violating the privacy of its citizens for less then a notion of securing our country. If you are willing to violate privacy for keeping track of its citizens, then you must be willing to violate privacy to protect this country. After all, you cannot have one without the other.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

A complaint does not mean that it is true.

Didn't say it was a fact. Complaints are what they are...arguments.

It may be more then that, but they have already shown a willingness to disregard privacy for security.

Europeans do not infringe on the privacy rights of their own citizens when they honor an agreement with the US to monitor the finacial transactions of US citizens and corporate entities who are suspected of illegal activities.

That is our government violating the privacy of its citizens for less then a notion of securing our country.

The privacy rights here are forfieted only by non Europeans. What the US is protecting here is US financial laws and the finacial security of the nation.

If you are willing to violate privacy for keeping track of its citizens, then you must be willing to violate privacy to protect this country.

After all, you cannot have one without the other.

The Europeans are not easing up on protecting the privacy rights of their own citizens when they acquiesce to US requests to open for review the records of the finacial transactions of US citizens.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

A complaint does not mean that it is true.

It may be more then that, but they have already shown a willingness to disregard privacy for security.

That is our government violating the privacy of its citizens for less then a notion of securing our country. If you are willing to violate privacy for keeping track of its citizens, then you must be willing to violate privacy to protect this country. After all, you cannot have one without the other.

Who are you talking about?

Do you think the European governments are more concerned than US governments are with protecting the privacy rights of their citizens?

What are you trying to say?

 

[ScreamingEagle]

privacy vs security : Europe vs usa

do european governments have a stronger commitment to, and do a better job of, protecting and valuing the privacy rights and concerns of their citizens, where security issues collide with privacy?

It some times looks that way, regardless of who is in power in the usa? What is it about the usa that allows or encourages governments to act in this way?

Or do you disagree, and why?

nyt...

brussels - the european parliament on thursday broadly rejected an agreement with the united states on sharing information on bank transfers that was aimed at tracking suspected terrorists through their finances.

The vote in strasbourg, france, underlined differences between the united states and the european union over how to balance guarantees of personal privacy with concerns about national and international security.

Many members of the parliament complained that the agreement - meant to last for nine months while a more permanent arrangement was sought - failed to guarantee the privacy rights of european citizens.

I believe the issue is much more about collecting TAXES than about "security"....and it is also about control and power....look out for the new world bank coming on the horizon....

In a free society police don't have the right to force their way into your home.....why should the state have the right to force their way into your bank account.....in order to troll through your private banking matters on the potential chance that you might be committing tax evasion?

That is what happens in the US....your movements of $10,000 or more....or is it now $5,000?....are monitored....you have no privacy....

In European banks like Switzerland where they have numbered accounts and greater customer confidentiality....they have laws against tax fraud, etc. of course....but they do not allow state authorities to just troll through peoples' accounts on fishing expeditions like they do in the US...there must first be a legal criminal investigation....before they divulge private customer information...

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

I believe the issue is much more about collecting TAXES than about "security"....and it is also about control and power....look out for the new world bank coming on the horizon....

It is about both...if you take what DarkieBlow was talking about....he/she mixed cases together. When you end a lucid argument with a dark and ominous warning and prediction...you lose the audience.

In a free society police don't have the right to force their way into your home.....why should the state have the right to force their way into your bank account.....in order to troll through your private banking matters on the potential chance that you might be committing tax evasion?

...

...

The issue here is about security vs privacy...not the issue of taxes.

The debate within the European governments is about what privacy rights of their OWN citizens should they sacrifice for added security measures that may or may not yield results equal to what is given up in the way of privacy.