Princeton Protests: Removing Woodrow Wilson over Segregation Stance?

[emilynghiem]

Students want Woodrow Wilson's name removed from Princeton

I get the point being contested by the Princeton students, but don't think the solution is removing people from history books and landmarks that are their legacy.

What are we going to do -- remove Leonardo da Vinci from history books because, at one point, he mistakenly theorized that the penis must have some internal tract connected to the lungs to provide the "breathe" to sustain an erection? Should he be axed for that?

And Jefferson axed for believing that Blacks should be deported back to Africa.
So forget all his other achievements and contributions to human political development.
Is that one point enough to strike the man out, bench him for the rest of eternity, and not include him on the team that helped to build the path to democratic governance?

If half of Congress voted for or against Civil Rights, or the Iraq War (or extending federal govt into health care without first Amending the Constitution)
Are we going to strike down that half of Congress from the history books for being on the wrong side?

WTF Who is going to be left?

If you are going to protest, then why not RESOLVE the conflicts to begin with.
Then you don't need to contest one side or the other if both reach agreement on solutions.
Gee Whiz! What next?

 

[Billy_Kinetta]

Creating the unperson. Another overblown attempt by the Left to practice Soviet-style techniques to expunge the less-than 21st Century orthodox from the public square, and history.

It's interesting that they're going after a minor Democrat god this time. What did they do to piss the ignorant little dears off?

 

[emilynghiem]

Creating the unperson. Another overblown attempt by the Left to practice Soviet-style techniques to expunge the less-than 21st Century orthodox from the public square, and history.

It's interesting that they're going after a minor Democrat god this time. What did they do to piss the ignorant little dears off?

This proves my theory that adults are just "grown up kids"
There are kids who play the Bully and kids who play the Brats.

Terrorists are the Bullies.
Whiny Victims are the Brats.
People divide into cliques and gangs and play the game
"You can't be friends with X and be my friend, too! You have to choose!"

Wah wah wah....

Whoever doesn't get their way resorts to the age old tactics
of school kids and chaos on the playground. Running to Mommy, Daddy,
the Teacher or the Principal to "tell on someone who called me a name."

We either need to grow all the way up, or grow all the way back down to the level of innocent kids.
But not be stuck in Middle School mentality.

Maybe this nonsense is happening on campuses so the Academic
community can study this stage of social and political development.

Like adolescent turmoil and rebellion -- It's just a phase where people are
gaining a sense of identity by dividing into groups, distancing themselves and blaming others until they figure out the problems are mutual. Just a phase I hope we outgrow successfully on our way to spiritual maturity as a society.

In the meantime, it's like listening to a bunch of ungrateful sounding teenagers who think they know better than their parents, and think they deserve cars and cell phones because "other kids have them," until they have to run their own households someday and work to pay the bills. Then the story changes when they realize why their parents set rules, budgets, and conditions and did what they did.

Again maybe the Academic community can set up programs to teach govt and economic management through internships -- directly participating in govt reform for research and development studies on sustainable solutions. So people can learn these things directly by getting involved internally in the actual corrections and solutions, and not whine about them from the outside like armchair referees convinced they know the game better than the coaches and players out on the field.

Blah blah blah!!!
Wah wah wah!!!

 

[WelfareQueen]

It is about silencing or erasing anyone you don't like or disagree with. Complete intolerance basically.....

 

[Steven_R]

Blacks should be proud every time they walk past anything on the Princeton campus associated with the likes of Woody Woo. He didn't want them there, but they made it. Walking past a mural of Wilson is tantamount to jabbing a thumb in Wilson's eye.

 

[martybegan]

Blacks should be proud every time they walk past anything on the Princeton campus associated with the likes of Woody Woo. He didn't want them there, but they made it. Walking past a mural of Wilson is tantamount to jabbing a thumb in Wilson's eye.

Interesting way of looking at it. However our current crop of college nitwits don't have the balls for that, regardless of their color/sex/orientation/ and whatever other qualifier we use to divide ourselves into victim tribes these days.

 

[TNHarley]

We should LEARN from history. Not repeat it.

 

[bodecea]

I agree with the OP...just be aware of his faults as well as his great works. Easy solution. Those who want to erase people like Wilson, Washington, Lee, etc. are intellectually lazy.

 

[WelfareQueen]

I agree with the OP...just be aware of his faults as well as his great works. Easy solution. Those who want to erase people like Wilson, Washington, Lee, etc. are intellectually lazy.

I completely agree with your post and would add one thing. Morals change. If climate change is as real as many on the left claim how will history view many contemporary politicians?

 

[Muhammed]

I agree with the OP...just be aware of his faults as well as his great works. Easy solution. Those who want to erase people like Wilson, Washington, Lee, etc. are intellectually lazy.

I completely agree with your post and would add one thing. Morals change. If climate change is as real as many on the left claim how will history view many contemporary politicians?

It has already been debunked, many years ago.

Quit worrying your paranoid little weary head.

 

[emilynghiem]

Wow, every reply from each person has proven to be GOLD!

Now, my fairminded colleagues.
How are we to respond, address and correct this problem of intellectually lazy victimhood or victimizing laziness projecting blame on others.

How do we break from this pattern, and uplift one another to take on better directions, focus and points of agreement?
What can we do to correct and improve on each instance when we see this recurring?

I'd like to take on the challenge of NOT being lazy but actually working through a solution
that addresses the misgivings on both sides, so we CAN all work together -- without any need to marginalize, demonize or
attack other views trying to defend or justify our own. Can't our views stand and be accepted on their own
WITHOUT any need to discredit, divide or reject other groups and beliefs?

What can we do better? Who what and where should we address the issues first?
What are your ideas, instead of focusing on what isn't working -- where can we organize approaches that ARE welcome and WILL work?

 

[JakeStarkey]

Those who wish to ignore the bad are as bodecea writes "intellectually lazy."

 

[emilynghiem]

Those who wish to ignore the bad are as bodecea writes "intellectually lazy."

Forgiving faults and denying them are not the same thing.
We should be too busy correcting problems to even argue who is forgiving and correcting
them vs. who is denying and projecting blame. If we focus on fixing things,
this should not even be an issue. Everyone has some issues or groups we cannot forgive,
and others we forgive while others cannot. So what. Why not work with the ones we can,
and let someone else priorities what they can do as well. If we can't stand or forgive
a certain group, then let someone handle that. We don't have to deny or be lazy to
choose one focus over another, and let other people handle their own priorities as well.

If we got used to conflict resolution, these old ways of bullying and dominance
would only be reserved for those who only know how to interact from that viewpoint.

Let each person find and define their path in life, and work it out step by step.
As long as that commitment is there, Life/God will send help to that person to
fulfill their dreams and vows, if by definition, this is truly "God's will" these things occur.

 

[JakeStarkey]

No one said they were the same thing, emilyng.

Those are your words only.

 

[emilynghiem]

No one said they were the same thing, emilyng.

Those are your words only.

Dear JakeStarkey
I do find that people confuse forgiveness with condoning and supporting more of the same.
Such as forgiving the fact that wrongs and killings have been committed in the name of
Christianity, many people can't forgive Christians and feel that promoting it is pretending
that these wrongs were justified somehow. Or promoting American nationalism is
denying the genocide committed against Native Americans, etc. Many people get into this mindset.

The students at Princeton protesting feel the need to take action, to actively strip and remove
some of the historical credit given to Woodrow Wilson in order to "make a statement
that racial prejudice and segregation are not to be tolerated in society"

Again, mixing up forgiveness of past wrongs
with either denial of these problems, or pretending these are okay.

 

[Pogo]

Creating the unperson. Another overblown attempt by the Left to practice Soviet-style techniques to expunge the less-than 21st Century orthodox from the public square, and history.

It's interesting that they're going after a minor Democrat god this time. What did they do to piss the ignorant little dears off?

Wilson was a racist asshole, that's known history. He was so despised by the end of his second term that Warren Harding barely had to campaign at all and still won the biggest landslide to that date.

But he was a wheel at Princeton, that's historical fact. You can't rewrite history -- that's what internet message boards are for.

Whatever their visual depiction is, they could always add some frank commentary. Or simply limit it to his time there and ignore the POTUS years.

 

[Billy_Kinetta]

Creating the unperson. Another overblown attempt by the Left to practice Soviet-style techniques to expunge the less-than 21st Century orthodox from the public square, and history.

It's interesting that they're going after a minor Democrat god this time. What did they do to piss the ignorant little dears off?

Wilson was a racist asshole, that's known history. He was so despised by the end of his second term that Warren Harding barely had to campaign at all and still won the biggest landslide to that date.

But he was a wheel at Princeton, that's historical fact. You can't rewrite history -- that's what internet message boards are for.

Whatever their visual depiction is, they could always add some frank commentary. Or simply limit it to his time there and ignore the POTUS years.

He was also a Democrat, whose attitudes rather undermine the story of post-Civil War epiphanies among them.

 

[martybegan]

Creating the unperson. Another overblown attempt by the Left to practice Soviet-style techniques to expunge the less-than 21st Century orthodox from the public square, and history.

It's interesting that they're going after a minor Democrat god this time. What did they do to piss the ignorant little dears off?

Wilson was a racist asshole, that's known history. He was so despised by the end of his second term that Warren Harding barely had to campaign at all and still won the biggest landslide to that date.

But he was a wheel at Princeton, that's historical fact. You can't rewrite history -- that's what internet message boards are for.

Whatever their visual depiction is, they could always add some frank commentary. Or simply limit it to his time there and ignore the POTUS years.

Wilson didn't run in 1920, he was also an invalid at the time, which is one of the reasons the 25th amendment was made.


And his racism wasn't the issue to most people, it was insistence on joining the League of Nations, and his condescending attitude towards those who disagreed with him on that point.

Wilson was more than likely no more racist, and probably even a bit less racist than your average Southern Male of his age at the time.

 

[Pogo]

Creating the unperson. Another overblown attempt by the Left to practice Soviet-style techniques to expunge the less-than 21st Century orthodox from the public square, and history.

It's interesting that they're going after a minor Democrat god this time. What did they do to piss the ignorant little dears off?

Wilson was a racist asshole, that's known history. He was so despised by the end of his second term that Warren Harding barely had to campaign at all and still won the biggest landslide to that date.

But he was a wheel at Princeton, that's historical fact. You can't rewrite history -- that's what internet message boards are for.

Whatever their visual depiction is, they could always add some frank commentary. Or simply limit it to his time there and ignore the POTUS years.

He was also a Democrat, whose attitudes rather undermine the story of post-Civil War epiphanies among them.

Not sure what that's supposed to mean but it's irrelevant. "Democrat" and "Republican" are not static terms. They're political parties. The parties of 1915 bear little to no relationship ideologically to those of 2015. The parties of 1865, even less so. Political parties exist for one purpose, and that is to organize and consolidate power. They don't exist to represent a fixed ideology.

 

[Pogo]

Creating the unperson. Another overblown attempt by the Left to practice Soviet-style techniques to expunge the less-than 21st Century orthodox from the public square, and history.

It's interesting that they're going after a minor Democrat god this time. What did they do to piss the ignorant little dears off?

Wilson was a racist asshole, that's known history. He was so despised by the end of his second term that Warren Harding barely had to campaign at all and still won the biggest landslide to that date.

But he was a wheel at Princeton, that's historical fact. You can't rewrite history -- that's what internet message boards are for.

Whatever their visual depiction is, they could always add some frank commentary. Or simply limit it to his time there and ignore the POTUS years.

Wilson didn't run in 1920, he was also an invalid at the time, which is one of the reasons the 25th amendment was made.


And his racism wasn't the issue to most people, it was insistence on joining the League of Nations, and his condescending attitude towards those who disagreed with him on that point.

Wilson was more than likely no more racist, and probably even a bit less racist than your average Southern Male of his age at the time.

Oh I think he was. "Average Southern male" may be a moot point, since he was the first elected POTUS to come from the South since the Civil War but he spent formative years in the deep South (Augusta) -- during the very period the War (which ended when he was 8) and its aftermath (and Reconstruction) had deeply scarred and was dividing that region. It's hard to imagine that setting would not shape his outlook at that age. He certainly was friendly to the idea of segregating his government.

Anyway when I say "racist asshole" I mean two descriptions, not one. I'm thinking of a lot of unnecessary meddling in Latin America and even pointlessly prolonging the Russian Revolution conflict. And I don't think he was a fan of women's suffrage which finally passed in his last year; I believe he had to go along with it.

And I know he wasn't running in 1920, that's not the point. A markedly unpopular administration is going to give its party's next candidate, by association, an uphill battle. An easy example in recent memory: 2008. John McCain, by being identified with Bush, was put into a deep hole, particularly when the economy collapsed two months before the election. While that wasn't McCain's doing, he was inevitably seen by the public as a continuation of "status quo" -- one of the risks of political parties. It made O'bama's "change" mantra a no-brainer.

That's an automatic boost to whoever the "other guy" is, regardless who they are. In 1920 that automatically gave Harding an advantage.