President Obama Gun and Ammo Salesman of the Year

[Missourian]

I went to Wal-mart today and they were nearly out of ammunition.

I wanted some .22 LR...completely out...out of .223...out of .380...out of .45 and .30-30 and .270 ammunition. I couldn't believe it. The guy behind the couter said they were all on backorder and they didn't know when they would get anything in.

Is Obama the top gun salesman of the Year?​

Jim Shepherd, the man behind the popular Outdoor Wire Web site, says that President Barack Obama is the reason for the unprecedented demand for firearms by nervous American consumers.

Shepherd says: "For me, it was a simple fact of recognizing that without [Obama] frightening consumers into action, the firearms industry might be suffering the same sort of business slumps that have befallen the automotive and housing industries."...

Shepherd said that gun manufacturers are months behind on orders for semi-automatic pistols, AR-style rifles, and anything with so-called 'high-capacity magazines.'...

In November 2008 the background checking officials said they saw the highest number of applicants in the system's history.

"In January the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) sent notices to federal firearms licensees that said because of an "unprecedented increase in demand for ATF Form 4473 [supplies had run so low] that dealers were temporarily given permission to photocopy the form until supplies caught up with demand. (Completion of a form 4473 is required whenever a federal firearms licensee sells a firearm.)

Said Shepherd: "As a journalist with more than two decades of national newsgathering experience, I've never seen anything approaching the 'Obama effect.' In fact, gun and ammunition sales are at such frantic levels that they have surpassed the panic-buying of Y2K or anything during the Clinton years when the first Assault Weapons Ban was passed."

"The facts are indisputable," said Shepherd. "Barack Obama has spurred gun sales in a time when the entire economy seems to be tanking. If that doesn't make him the gun salesman of the year -- if not the decade -- I don't know what would."

Is Obama the top gun salesman of the Year? - Inside Outside - Washington Times - Politics, Breaking News, US and World News

 

[Diuretic]

See? He's stimulating the economy!

 

[Modbert]

And the real reason why the NRA made the smears that Obama was going to take away people's guns come out.

 

[Missourian]

And the real reason why the NRA made the smears that Obama was going to take away people's guns come out.

Not smears, his voting record.

 

[Modbert]

And the real reason why the NRA made the smears that Obama was going to take away people's guns come out.

Not smears, his voting record.

FactCheck.org: NRA Targets Obama

Most of the NRA claims are false and misleading.

The rest were true at a time back in either 2000 and 2004. However, if a man can not change his political convictions in this country ever then I don't know what to say. You can bring up his prior voting record that MIGHT show something that MIGHT happen but the reality is that Obama has not proposed anything in this election cycle that would take away Gun Owners right to bear arms.

Obama (Sept. 5): The bottom line is this. If you’ve got a rifle, you’ve got a shotgun, you’ve got a gun in your house, I’m not taking it away. Alright? So they can keep on talking about it but this is just not true. And by the way, here’s another thing you’ve got to understand. Even if I wanted to take it away, I couldn’t get it done. I don’t have the votes in Congress

 

[CrimsonWhite]

And the real reason why the NRA made the smears that Obama was going to take away people's guns come out.

Not smears, his voting record.

FactCheck.org: NRA Targets Obama

Most of the NRA claims are false and misleading.

The rest were true at a time back in either 2000 and 2004. However, if a man can not change his political convictions in this country ever then I don't know what to say. You can bring up his prior voting record that MIGHT show something that MIGHT happen but the reality is that Obama has not proposed anything in this election cycle that would take away Gun Owners right to bear arms.

Obama (Sept. 5): The bottom line is this. If you’ve got a rifle, you’ve got a shotgun, you’ve got a gun in your house, I’m not taking it away. Alright? So they can keep on talking about it but this is just not true. And by the way, here’s another thing you’ve got to understand. Even if I wanted to take it away, I couldn’t get it done. I don’t have the votes in Congress

In order to accept that he has changed his political convictions he must demonstrate it. Thus far, he has not.

 

[Modbert]

In order to accept that he has changed his political convictions he must demonstrate it. Thus far, he has not.

Thus far he has not done anything for or against Guns in this country as President.

So how can you judge him currently? You may judge the Obama of 1996 or 2000 if you so choose, but the Obama of 2009 you have no substance in reason for doing so.

 

[Angel Heart]

If Obama does make moves toward gun control, will you march with us Robert?

 

[Modbert]

If Obama does make moves toward gun control, will you march with us Robert?

Depends on what Angel. I am all for the right to bear arms. However, I am also for reasonable gun control.

Guns do require some form of regulation/laws. Guns should not be in bars for example. Guns should not be carried into school by students or teachers. Guns in any school zone should be carried by Law Enforcement officals except in an emergency.

Being in High School, I can tell you straight out that I wouldn't trust many with a gun in a time of crisis including many of my friends.

Guns should not be sold to children, ex-convicts, mentally incapable people.

I do not believe someone needs a RPG in their home to protect themselves. I do not believe that someone needs a AK-47 either. Am I fine with something like a shotgun? Yes.

I really don't know how far people like you and MO want to go in getting rid of Gun Control. Having everybody carrying guns is a insane idea considering what the norm is for people who get into arguments or situations that include anger.

Someone can be perfectly fine when they buy the gun, but say they find their wife in bed with another man. What do you hear happens so often?

Obama is right when he says the rights of hunters must be protected but so must the lives of non-hunters such as the children in Chicago who are shot down.

And yes, I've heard the argument many times that illegal guns are the main root.

However, what were the guns from with the two worst school shootings in history of the U.S. (Columbine and Virginia Tech).

Columbine, the guns were bought through a straw purchase at a Gun show. Perfectly legally for the original buyer. They would of bought them themselves had they been legal age.

Virginia Tech, Cho bought his guns in a legal manner despite being in violation of the 1968 Federal Law.

So yes, more needs to be done with the gun laws in our country. The NRA and others can feel that perhaps all but a few of our gun laws should be taken away, but then guns can be put into the hands of these murderers just as easy.

But just because "these murderers will get the weapons if they try hard enough" is no good argument to repeal all gun laws. Because when we apply that logic elsewhere, we should get rid of all laws pertaining to crime and punishment since people still commit such crimes.

 

[Missourian]

Thus far he has not done anything for or against Guns in this country as President.

So how can you judge him currently? You may judge the Obama of 1996 or 2000 if you so choose, but the Obama of 2009 you have no substance in reason for doing so.

Obama endorsed Illinois handgun ban

• Obama was being misleading when he denied that his handwriting had been on a document endorsing a state ban on the sale and possession of handguns in Illinois. Obama responded, "No, my writing wasn't on that particular questionnaire. As I said, I have never favored an all-out ban on handguns."

• Actually, Obama's writing was on the 1996 document, which was filed when Obama was running for the Illinois state Senate. A Chicago nonprofit, Independent Voters of Illinois, had this question, and Obama took hard line:

• 
  35. Do you support state legislation to:
  a. ban the manufacture, sale and possession of handguns? Yes.
  b. ban assault weapons? Yes.
  c. mandatory waiting periods and background checks? Yes.

• Obama's campaign said, "Sen. Obama didn't fill out these state Senate questionnaires--a staffer did--and there are several answers that didn't reflect his views then or now. He may have jotted some notes on the front page of the questionnaire, but some answers didn't reflect his views."

On the DC handgun ban Obama says:

• First Obama says he believes the ban is constitutional.

• When it is overturned he denies saying that.

• Obama then said he believes "that the Constitution confers an individual right to bear arms. But just because you have an individual right does not mean that the state or local government can't constrain the exercise of that right."

Bans Obama doesn't deny:

<DL><DD>Semi-automatic rifles able to accept detachable magazines and two or more of the following: </DD></DL><DL><DD>

• Folding stock
• Conspicuous pistol grip
• Bayonet mount
• Flash suppressor, or threaded barrel designed to accommodate one

</DD></DL><DL><DD>Semi-automatic pistols with detachable magazines and two or more of the following: </DD></DL><DL><DD>

• Magazine that attaches outside the pistol grip
• Threaded barrel to attach barrel extender, flash suppressor, handgrip, or silencer
• Barrel shroud that can be used as a hand-hold
• Unloaded weight of 50 oz (1.4 kg) or more
• A semi-automatic version of an automatic firearm

</DD></DL>

<DL><DD>Semi-automatic shotguns with two or more of the following: </DD></DL><DL><DD>

• Folding or telescoping stock
• Pistol grip
• Fixed capacity of more than 5 rounds
• Detachable magazine

</DD></DL>

• High Cap Magazines

Barack Obama on Gun Control

Gun control: Election Center 2008 - CNN.com

AWB - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Modbert]

Obama endorsed Illinois handgun ban

• Obama was being misleading when he denied that his handwriting had been on a document endorsing a state ban on the sale and possession of handguns in Illinois. Obama responded, "No, my writing wasn't on that particular questionnaire. As I said, I have never favored an all-out ban on handguns."

• 
  
  MO, you're showing a bit of gun bias when it comes to Obama on Gun Control. How he voted then is not how he is voting now. He has not proposed any handgun ban in this election cycle and he wouldn't get the votes anyway if he wanted to as he already stated.
  
  

  Q: When you were in the state senate, you talked about licensing and registering gun owners. Would you do that as president?
  
  A: I don't think that we can get that done. But what we can do is to provide just some common-sense enforcement. The efforts by law enforcement to obtain the information required to trace back guns that have been used in crimes to unscrupulous gun dealers. As president, I intend to make it happen. We essentially have two realities, when it comes to guns, in this country. You've got the tradition of lawful gun ownership. It is very important for many Americans to be able to hunt, fish, take their kids out, teach them how to shoot. Then you've got the reality of 34 Chicago public school students who get shot down on the streets of Chicago. We can reconcile those two realities by making sure the Second Amendment is respected and that people are able to lawfully own guns, but that we also start cracking down on the kinds of abuses of firearms that we see on the streets.

  
  He's right when he says what I bolded especially.
  
  Obama also voted for Concealed Carry for Retired Police Officers.
  
  

  I believe in keeping guns out of our inner cities, and that our leaders must say so in the face of the gun manfuacturer's lobby. But I also believe that when a gangbanger shoots indiscriminately into a crowd because he feels someone disrespected him, we have a problem of morality. Not only do ew need to punish thatman for his crime, but we need to acknowledge that there's a hole in his heart, one that government programs alone may not be able to repair

  
  Sounds like some Gun taking away Liberal to you?
  
  I see nothing wrong with this:
  
  

  Voted for 2005 amendment placing restrictions on rifle ammunition that is "designed or marketed" to be armor-piercing.

  
  Ducks and Bears do not wear armor. Criminals use armor-piercing bullets and use them against police officers.
  
  

  Supports making guns childproof and voted for 2005 child safety lock amendment

  
  Heartless Bastard?
  
  

  Voted for 2006 amendment prohibiting confiscation of firearms from private citizens, particularly during times of crisis or emergency

  
  Damn him! Trying to take away our G-..
  
  
  As you can see, Obama isn't trying to take away people's guns.
  
  The problem is, people are always referring to the 2nd amendment when saying why Assault Weapons shouldn't be banned. The irony of it is that Assault Weapons weren't around during the time of the Founding Fathers. So there really is no way to determine what they would of thought of AK-47s and M-4s.
  
  But again, judge the Obama of 1996 or 2000 that supported such bans. However, you can't say or judge the Obama of the present on Guns as he has not done anything in his current Administration on them.

 

[Missourian]

Guns do require some form of regulation/laws. Guns should not be in bars for example. Guns should not be carried into school by students or teachers. Guns in any school zone should be carried by Law Enforcement officals except in an emergency.

Being in High School, I can tell you straight out that I wouldn't trust many with a gun in a time of crisis including many of my friends.

Guns should not be sold to children, ex-convicts, mentally incapable people.

These are already laws. College students over 18 want the right to carry a firearm. How many times have you said in the 'lower the drinking age' thread that old enough to vote, old enough to serve in the armed forces is old enough to drink? If an 18 year old is resposible enough to do all the above, isn't he or she responsible enough to carry a firearm?

I'm just asking, I'm of two minds on the subject.

I do not believe someone needs a RPG in their home to protect themselves. I do not believe that someone needs a AK-47 either. Am I fine with something like a shotgun? Yes.

The whole RPG thing is totally out of left field.

As for the semi-automatic version of the AK-47, it is no different than any other semi-automatic rifle to anyone who has knowledge of firearms. Civilian purchases of fully automatic weapons have been restricted to collectors for almost 75 years.

I really don't know how far people like you and MO want to go in getting rid of Gun Control. Having everybody carrying guns is a insane idea considering what the norm is for people who get into arguments or situations that include anger.

Someone can be perfectly fine when they buy the gun, but say they find their wife in bed with another man. What do you hear happens so often?

A fallacious argument, a man who would resort to murder doesn't under this circumstance could use a knife, a bat or virtually any object in the room to achieve that result.

However, what were the guns from with the two worst school shootings in history of the U.S. (Columbine and Virginia Tech).

Columbine, the guns were bought through a straw purchase at a Gun show. Perfectly legally for the original buyer. They would of bought them themselves had they been legal age.

Virginia Tech, Cho bought his guns in a legal manner despite being in violation of the 1968 Federal Law.

First, a strawman purchase is totally illegal. Second, what form of gun control could stop a strawman purchase. Third, how could Cho buy a gun "in a legal manner" and be "in violation of the 1968 Federal Law"?

 

[Modbert]

These are already laws. College students over 18 want the right to carry a firearm. How many times have you said in the 'lower the drinking age' thread that old enough to vote, old enough to serve in the armed forces is old enough to drink? If an 18 year old is resposible enough to do all the above, isn't he or she responsible enough to carry a firearm?

I'm just asking, I'm of two minds on the subject.

The whole RPG thing is totally out of left field.

As for the semi-automatic version of the AK-47, it is no different than any other semi-automatic rifle to anyone who has knowledge of firearms. Civilian purchases of fully automatic weapons have been restricted to collectors for almost 75 years.

A fallacious argument, a man who would resort to murder doesn't under this circumstance could use a knife, a bat or virtually any object in the room to achieve that result.


First, a strawman purchase is totally illegal. Second, what form of gun control could stop a strawman purchase. Third, how could Cho buy a gun "in a legal manner" and be "in violation of the 1968 Federal Law"?

1.) 18 is certainly old enough to carry a firearm, just not on campus. Let me give you a situation, classroom full of students with guns. One student gets up and begins to shoot his fellow students in the middle of the room. Who do you think is going to kill more people? Him or the Fellow students when they all get up to shoot him at the same time and accidently shoot each other?

2.) What sort of hunting do you need an AK-47 for? I see no reason why something like a Shotgun could not be used.

3.) I didn't realize that it became suddenly easier to run up to a person and use a bat/knife then to simply take out your gun and unload.

4.) I realize strawman purchases are illegal, but the guns were originally still obtained through legal means. Cho bought the guns from a gun store however since the gun laws had flaws in them, he could still get guns. That is why I originally told Angel that it depends because work is still needed on gun laws in this country.

 

[Missourian]

As you can see, Obama isn't trying to take away people's guns.

The problem is, people are always referring to the 2nd amendment when saying why Assault Weapons shouldn't be banned. The irony of it is that Assault Weapons weren't around during the time of the Founding Fathers. So there really is no way to determine what they would of thought of AK-47s and M-4s.

Well what kind of weapons do you thing they had Rob..."this may tickle a little" weapons or perhaps "Could leave you with a nasty welt" weapons?

But again, judge the Obama of 1996 or 2000 that supported such bans. However, you can't say or judge the Obama of the present on Guns as he has not done anything in his current Administration on them.

That is the whole point of this thread. People are judging him by his support for bans and are buying firearms in record numbers.

Once again, it's not an NRA smear that is propelling Americans to gunshops nationwide...it's President Obama's record.

If you don't judge a man on his record, what do you use?



I

 

[elvis]

I don't think we need an excuse to carry AK47's. The question you asked about the AK47's could be applied to handguns. I don't see why machine guns are illegal, honestly.

 

[elvis]

How much damage can Obama do to gun rights with the recent Supreme Court decision?

 

[Modbert]

As you can see, Obama isn't trying to take away people's guns.

The problem is, people are always referring to the 2nd amendment when saying why Assault Weapons shouldn't be banned. The irony of it is that Assault Weapons weren't around during the time of the Founding Fathers. So there really is no way to determine what they would of thought of AK-47s and M-4s.

Well what kind of weapons do you thing they had Rob..."this may tickle a little" weapons or perhaps "Could leave you with a nasty welt" weapons?

But again, judge the Obama of 1996 or 2000 that supported such bans. However, you can't say or judge the Obama of the present on Guns as he has not done anything in his current Administration on them.

That is the whole point of this thread. People are judging him by his support for bans and are buying firearms in record numbers.

Once again, it's not an NRA smear that is propelling Americans to gunshops nationwide...it's President Obama's record.

If you don't judge a man on his record, what do you use?



I

You can judge most men on their record. However, I would judge Obama on what he does in office like you would any other President. If people had judged Bush on simply being a Republican then they wouldn't of probably thought he'd support the bailout but he did.

You have to admit however that the NRA committed several smears against Obama in their pamplets. Another thing, this thread is judging Obama on yesterday, not today.

And really, going to play the same semantics I saw in the other thread? Want me to be more specific? They didn't have freakin AK-47s back then. So you cannot say the opinions of the founding fathers on such weapons.

 

[Modbert]

I don't think we need an excuse to carry AK47's. The question you asked about the AK47's could be applied to handguns. I don't see why machine guns are illegal, honestly.

You do realize putting handguns and AK-47s into the same category is insane correct?

There is NO REASON why anyone needs an AK-47 especially to carry around on their persons.

 

[elvis]

As you can see, Obama isn't trying to take away people's guns.

The problem is, people are always referring to the 2nd amendment when saying why Assault Weapons shouldn't be banned. The irony of it is that Assault Weapons weren't around during the time of the Founding Fathers. So there really is no way to determine what they would of thought of AK-47s and M-4s.

Well what kind of weapons do you thing they had Rob..."this may tickle a little" weapons or perhaps "Could leave you with a nasty welt" weapons?

But again, judge the Obama of 1996 or 2000 that supported such bans. However, you can't say or judge the Obama of the present on Guns as he has not done anything in his current Administration on them.

That is the whole point of this thread. People are judging him by his support for bans and are buying firearms in record numbers.

Once again, it's not an NRA smear that is propelling Americans to gunshops nationwide...it's President Obama's record.

If you don't judge a man on his record, what do you use?



I

You can judge most men on their record. However, I would judge Obama on what he does in office like you would any other President. If people had judged Bush on simply being a Republican then they wouldn't of probably thought he'd support the bailout but he did.

You have to admit however that the NRA committed several smears against Obama in their pamplets. Another thing, this thread is judging Obama on yesterday, not today.

And really, going to play the same semantics I heard in the other thread? Want me to be more specific? They didn't have freakin AK-47s back then. So you cannot say the opinions of the founding fathers on such weapons. The 2nd Amendment says you have a right to bear arms, not AK-47s, M-4s, or RPGs.

The second amendment doesn't say anything about handguns, either. Using your argument, Obama could take away handgus just as easily as AK47s.

 

[elvis]

I don't think we need an excuse to carry AK47's. The question you asked about the AK47's could be applied to handguns. I don't see why machine guns are illegal, honestly.

You do realize putting handguns and AK-47s into the same category is insane correct?

There is NO REASON why anyone needs an AK-47 especially to carry around on their persons.

No one needs a handgun either. It's a right.