President Bush threatens housing-aid veto

Or we can pare down the law so that ordinary people can understand it...

I know it's a pipe dream, but it's a nice one.

My sister's a lawyer, I know there are good, ethical, smart ones out there.

But there are more egotistical, ignorant, arrogant, and lazy ones....

So, your sister is the smart one, and you are the ugly one?
 
I don't know that I disagree with you, but home foreclosures (and bank failures) do have negative spillover effects that affect more than the people who made poor decisions. That should be taken into account as well. No reason to cut off the nose to spite the face.

Intervening and bailing everyone out that fucked up is no less a cutting off of the nose than allowing them to fail is.

There will be way less of these kinds of fuck ups in the future if people and businesses know that their ass isn't going to be saved by Uncle Sam if they happen to take a foolish risk and lose.

It's called being responsible for yourself. It was taught to us when we were kids. What happened along the way?

If it were that simple, I might agree with you. But many of the homeowners were misled or even defrauded about the terms of their mortgages. The truth gets buried in a stack of up to 100 pages or more of legal language, and the pressure of moving, closing and resettling.

No one was misled that didn't LET themselves be misled. Deciding to by a friggin HOUSE is not a decision you come to lightly. That takes a lot of time to think, plan, and decide. If you walked into a bank and just blindly signed on the dotted line becasue that bank told you "YES", you were an idiot.

I don't care if it's THOUSANDS of pages. If you're putting your name out there for 100's of thousands of dollars for the rest of your life, you owe it to yourself to make sure of EXACTLY what you are signing.

This said, neither I, nor anyone else, should have to be responsible for bailing out that kind of stupidity.
 
There was an interesting story on NPR this afternoon about this, how the banks were loaning money to people that had no income and no assets. NINA loans, they were called.

Oh yeah, the banks are culpable.
 
Intervening and bailing everyone out that fucked up is no less a cutting off of the nose than allowing them to fail is.

There will be way less of these kinds of fuck ups in the future if people and businesses know that their ass isn't going to be saved by Uncle Sam if they happen to take a foolish risk and lose.

It's called being responsible for yourself. It was taught to us when we were kids. What happened along the way?
i don't think it would be fair to allow bear sterns the $350 billion of our money, without helping the ''us'' that paid taxes all their lives....that were fooled by the scheme....

i own my home, we paid cash in 2006 for it....it has dropped 15% in value since we bought it.....and we haggled and paid $43,000 less than the original listing price.....it now is worth 15% less than what we paid....that's not a good feeling, even without a mortgage payment!

and NONE to do with our own acts....just what is going on out there.... it ain't pretty....

yes bailouts won't teach the subprimers and banks a lesson, but legislation reverting back to 1998 law that deregulated subprimes i believe, will.

jd
 
There was an interesting story on NPR this afternoon about this, how the banks were loaning money to people that had no income and no assets. NINA loans, they were called.

Oh yeah, the banks are culpable.

Oh, and the people who had no income or assets are free and clear of any blame? How can you not be held responsible for signing a mortgage you knew you couldn't afford?
 
Haha, no. Pro se litigants generally lose. Badly. In a criminal case where the standard is beyond a reasonable doubt there is no way he would get anywhere.

I know. Hence the dream of having a simplified legal system which is user friendly.
As I said, it's a dream, but I'm clinging to it.
 
i don't think it would be fair to allow bear sterns the $350 billion of our money, without helping the ''us'' that paid taxes all their lives....that were fooled by the scheme....

i own my home, we paid cash in 2006 for it....it has dropped 15% in value since we bought it.....and we haggled and paid $43,000 less than the original listing price.....it now is worth 15% less than what we paid....that's not a good feeling, even without a mortgage payment!

and NONE to do with our own acts....just what is going on out there.... it ain't pretty....

yes bailouts won't teach the subprimers and banks a lesson, but legislation reverting back to 1998 law that deregulated subprimes i believe, will.

jd

Your house's value will come back up. It may or may not reach the levels houses were at 5 years ago, but it will be gain that 15% back and more.

You have to understand that ups and downs in the market are common and inevitable.

Also, no one who had mortgage terms in writing sitting in front of them to read before they signed, were "fooled". Unless the bank left out some of the terms in the contract, in which case those buyers would have a legal case against the bank, no one was fooled.

The banks were wrong, and the buyers were just as wrong.
 
I didn't say that. There is blame for both.

Sure, the guys who make the loans are assholes.
But the ones who stupidly take them out are the ones who signed on for it.
Too bad, so sad. Happy for me, now I can finally get that house in the country with a few acres for horses, goats, chickens, and kids. (Human kids).
And believe me, I read the fine print.
 
Intervening and bailing everyone out that fucked up is no less a cutting off of the nose than allowing them to fail is.

There will be way less of these kinds of fuck ups in the future if people and businesses know that their ass isn't going to be saved by Uncle Sam if they happen to take a foolish risk and lose.

It's called being responsible for yourself. It was taught to us when we were kids. What happened along the way?



No one was misled that didn't LET themselves be misled. Deciding to by a friggin HOUSE is not a decision you come to lightly. That takes a lot of time to think, plan, and decide. If you walked into a bank and just blindly signed on the dotted line becasue that bank told you "YES", you were an idiot.

I don't care if it's THOUSANDS of pages. If you're putting your name out there for 100's of thousands of dollars for the rest of your life, you owe it to yourself to make sure of EXACTLY what you are signing.

This said, neither I, nor anyone else, should have to be responsible for bailing out that kind of stupidity.

Paul, the banks would NOT EVER GIVE YOU A LOAN, if they thought you could not pay for it....THAT'S a fact....thus credit ratings from 3 main sources, your paystubs for 3 months, all of what you owed on credit cards, your car loans, your student loans, and any savings, had to be shown when we applied for a mortgage on our home back in 1997, along with the bank appraiser, guaranteeing that the home we were purchasing was worth the price of the money we were being loaned by them.

What the hell happened to THAT, which is just general, "good business and fiduciary" practices?
 
would this issue be as murky if the item being purchased were a TV instead of a home? I bet rent-a-center type businesses could provide some insight.
 
I think predatory lending companies are a huge part of the problem. People get into these houses that tax their budgets to the max, then get into "buying" crap from rent a centers and paying huge monthly payments at rapist interest rates and get behind before they figure out they should just use the crappy furniture they can pull off the street.

Like my crappy couch that I'm stuck with until God knows when because instead of using my huge tax return on new furniture (and ultimately a house) I chose to get back into the horse business instead.

Oh well. When I get sick of looking at my couch, I can walk (can't afford the gas) to the place where I RENT a space for my horse....and when I'm really bored I can just watch the money trickling away.......

Horses are money pits. Don't ever let anyone tell you any differently.
 
I didn't say that. There is blame for both.

Ok, well you said the BANKS are culpable. I thought that was already common knowledge. I just wanted to make sure you understood why the buyers are just as culpable. No one gets a free pass in this, nor should they.

And when I say banks, I include the one MOST to blame out of them all...The Federal Reserve.
 
Cute... disingenuous... but really cute. ;)

I guess it's only okay to bail out corporations who make bad business decisions... you know, like airlines; banks; bear sterns...

just so you don't do anything for actual "people".

Is there anyone you hold accountable for ITS actions, or is it only Democrats?

Now allow ME: not so's anyone would notice. :eusa_whistle:

No, I asked a question based on a one-sided statement.

As far as your question, I have no problem holding people accountable for what they ACTUALLY do. I just don't hold them accountable to fabricated, baseless partisan accusations. BIG difference.

I hold BOTH political parties to the same standard, not one that is so 180 that a blind man can see it.

I'm not blanket against helping people OR corporations just as I am not blanket "for" helping people or corporations.

Now let's get real. Your comment obviously ignores at leat half a dozen if not more rants against corporate privileges.

But trying to slam Bush with a blanket statement is just partisan bullshit. What is this bill ACTUALLY going to do? Is it a bandaid on a gushing artery or what? I'm not going to support "feel good" fixes so one party can claim partisan victory.

As for your comment ... when you convince me you actually give a shit about people and not just taking a partisan shot ... we might actually get somewhere.
 
I would imagine Gunny doesn't approve of bailing out corps, either. I'm at a loss for understanding why taxpayers should be responsible for bailing ANYONE out. All that ultimately does is create incentive to take bad risks.


I most DEFINITELY don't agree with bailing out corporations anymore than I do bailing out citizens, and I'm even more adamant that the burden of these bailouts should not fall on the shoulders of the middle class.

Want to bail them out? Stabilize the economy and let them renegotiate their mortgages based on what they can "actually" afford. It takes two. The unscrupulous lending practices are no more to blame than knuckleheads living beyond their means.
 
The dumbasses who get their first job, run out before they even have a paycheck and buy truckloads of furniture and big screen tvs, and sign up for a loan, agreeing to make huge installments to cover the down and closing costs...and find out a year later that 1. Jobs aren't guaranteed, and 2. It takes a little planning, scrimping and saving to attain all the things we want.

Somebody please explain that to my son, now. He won't hear it from me.

Oh, and while you're at it, tell him it's a good idea to get a car AFTER you get a job, not before.
 
AllieBaba said:
Oh, and while you're at it, tell him it's a good idea to get a car AFTER you get a job, not before.

That could be debated. Many employers will give you more consideration if you have viable transportation.

GunnyL said:
Want to bail them out? Stabilize the economy and let them renegotiate their mortgages based on what they can "actually" afford. It takes two. The unscrupulous lending practices are no more to blame than knuckleheads living beyond their means.

Agreed. Although, I'd much rather let the economy stabilize itself. There's nothing that can be done to MAKE it stabilize, that won't ultimately make things worse.

The market will correct itself better than any correction that is superficially applied. I'm not sure why some think that we don't know what's good for ourselves. If that were the case, the USA in particular probably would have ceased existing LONG ago.
 
Ok, well you said the BANKS are culpable. I thought that was already common knowledge. I just wanted to make sure you understood why the buyers are just as culpable. No one gets a free pass in this, nor should they.

And when I say banks, I include the one MOST to blame out of them all...The Federal Reserve.

mmmmmm...did you listen to the bit on NPR? IMO, the culprit is mainly greed within the IMF...not saying that everyone involved doesn't share it, but if it affects me, I'm not blaming joe podunk for taking an offered loan.
 
Despite growing GOP support for the plan, especially among Republicans from areas hardest hit by the housing crisis, it could fall victim to an election-year fight over which party is doing more to help homeowners in need.




So it will end up with no one doing anything at all, no one being helped.......

As an old friend used to say, " Now Ain't THAT Nothing."
 

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