Presbyterian Church Defames Christianity

[Zhukov]

<center>Presbyterian Church Defames Christianity</center>

I have argued in this column that the greatest sin is committing evil in God's name. As bad as the evil committed by secularists, such as communists and Nazis, has ever been, the most grievous evil is that which is committed in the name of God. For not only do religious evils harm their victims, they also do lasting damage to God-based morality, which those of us who believe in God and religion consider the only viable antidote to evil.

That is why Islamic terror is so evil. Not only because it targets the most innocent of people for death and torture, but because it does so in the name of Allah and Islam.

Incredibly, The General Assembly of the Presbyterian Church (USA) joins the list of religious groups committing evil. In the name of Jesus, it has called for the economic strangulation of Israel. They have equated the Jewish state with South Africa during apartheid and called for a universal divestment from it.

The Presbyterians are the first Christian church to do this, and, ironically, the divestment campaign came the very week that the Roman Catholic Church signed a document equating anti-Zionism with anti-Semitism.

It takes a particularly virulent strain of moral idiocy and meanness to single out Israel, not Arafat's Palestinian Authority, or terror-supporting, death-fatwa-issuing Iran, or women-subjugating Saudi Arabia, for condemnation and economic ruin. One of the most decent societies, one of the most liberal democracies in the world, is fighting for its life against Islamic fascists who praise the Holocaust and publicly call for the annihilation of Israel -- and the Presbyterian Church calls for strangling Israel!

Apartheid state? This Goebbels-like Big Lie, concocted by the world's anti-Israel and anti-American Left and by those who want Israel destroyed, is now an official doctrine of the Presbyterian Church. Israel is a nation whose population is one-quarter non-Jewish Arab, with the same rights, including voting and its own political parties, as Jewish citizens; a nation whose second official language is Arabic, the language of those who wish to annihilate the Jewish country; a nation that occupies a tiny sliver of land known as the West Bank only because Jordan, overwhelmingly composed of Palestinians, invaded Israel in 1967 in order to destroy it and thereby lost its ownership of the West Bank.

As an American who fights to preserve Judeo-Christian values as America's primary value system and preserve Christianity as the specific American faith that embodies those values, I can only say this: the God that the 431 leaders of the Presbyterian Church worship is not my God, any more than the Allah of the Islamic fascists that Israel and America fight is my God.

The Bible that these Presbyterians read is not my Bible.

The religious values that these Presbyterians hold are not my religious values.

This is not a difference about immigration policy, affirmative action, taxation, bigger or smaller government, welfare policies, gun control, or a myriad of other moral issues over which decent, God-fearing people can disagree.

This is one of the morality-clarifying issues of our time. To single out Israel for economic strangulation while that good nation fights for its life is an act of such immorality that holding that view precludes one from the title "good" or "God-fearing," for if they are true to God, I am false to Him. If they are good, I who support Israel am bad. If their Bible teaches them to strangle Israel and support Yasser Arafat, I am guided by a different Bible.

They have drawn a line. It is now time for good people, Presbyterians specifically, Christians generally, to distance themselves vigorously and publicly from this morally sick church. And it is time, once again, for Jews to realize that the enemies of the Jews in our day are to be found on the Christian Left while their friends are far more often on the Christian Right.

Many serious Christians ask, "What Would Jesus Do?" If Jesus were here, he would probably be at Israeli hospitals comforting fellow Jews who were deliberately blinded, paralyzed and brain-damaged by Jew- and Christian-hating Palestinian terrorists. He would surely not be with the Jews' enemies, among whom are now the leaders of the Presbyterian Church, USA.

http://www.townhall.com/columnists/dennisprager/dp20040720.shtml

http://www.dennisprager.com

 

[NewGuy]

Prophecy of the great "falling away" is being fulfilled.

 

[remie]

http://www.townhall.com/columnists/dennisprager/dp20040720.shtml

http://www.dennisprager.com

Zhukov

What are your thoughts on this article? I have forwarded it to my pastor who attended the conference to get his take. I will look forward to his response.

 

[dilloduck]

Prophecy of the great "falling away" is being fulfilled.

for the 100,000,000,000,000th time

 

[freeandfun1]

for the 100,000,000,000,000th time

just another sign. one of many. sorry if you can't see it.

next:

That was a great article and he put it all in perspective. I cannot believe the Presbyterian Church did this. I stopped going to a Presbyterian Church (I went with my wife - she drug me along) when I started noticing their apathy toward the war on terrorism and the war in Iraq. I had thought that maybe my experience was just isolated. I guess I was wrong.

 

[dilloduck]

for the 100,000,000,000,000th time

Sorry but the conpiracy theorists have been at this for over 1,000 years---sooner or later the "world" will end and they will be right.

 

[remie]

just another sign. one of many. sorry if you can't see it.

next:

That was a great article and he put it all in perspective. I cannot believe the Presbyterian Church did this. I stopped going to a Presbyterian Church (I went with my wife - she drug me along) when I started noticing their apathy toward the war on terrorism and the war in Iraq. I had thought that maybe my experience was just isolated. I guess I was wrong.

I still attend a Presbyterian Church regularly and maybe it is a southern thing but my church is very supportive of the liberation of Iraq and the war on terror. If I may ask, what church do you go to now?

 

[DKSuddeth]

Sorry but the conpiracy theorists have been at this for over 1,000 years---sooner or later the "world" will end and they will be right.

yes, eventually the world will end. Whether that would be because the core cools down, hardens, and the earth dies or because the people of the world left gods chosen people to their own devices and the biblical prophecies become reality is something I'd like to be made aware of.

 

[Zhukov]

Zhukov

What are your thoughts on this article?

First, understand, I'm not a Presbyterian. I'm not a christian. I'm not relgious at all.



Calling for the abandonment and economic strangulation of a democratic state seems pretty immoral to me, especially considering the situation Israel is in, surrounded by enemies, and attacked daily.

I can't imagine that the majority of Presbyterians agree with their Church leaders' proclamations, and I suppose there's something to be said for that as well.

I also wonder what, if any, biblical verses they think justify their decision.

 

[remie]

First, understand, I'm not a Presbyterian. I'm not a christian. I'm not relgious at all.



Calling for the abandonment and economic strangulation of a democratic state seems pretty immoral to me, especially considering the situation Israel is in, surrounded by enemies, and attacked daily.

I can't imagine that the majority of Presbyterians agree with their Church leaders' proclamations, and I suppose there's something to be said for that as well.

I also wonder what, if any, biblical verses they think justify their decision.

As I said, I sent the article to my pastor. I wasnt familiar with the author of the article posted, therefore, I will reserve judgement until I hear from someone that actually attended the conference. I will report back with what I learn if you are interested.

 

[freeandfun1]

I still attend a Presbyterian Church regularly and maybe it is a southern thing but my church is very supportive of the liberation of Iraq and the war on terror. If I may ask, what church do you go to now?

The Church of ME. Actually, I don't go at all any more. If I were to start again, I would probably try to find a Methodist church. I was raised Southern Baptist and I have been to Church of Christ, Church of God, Church of YOU NAME IT (well, within the normal realms of traditional churches - haven't been and don't desire to attend a Mormon Church or a Catholic Church or a Satanic Church - you get my drift) but I end up in trying to just understand what it is God wants me to know by myself. I hate relying on others to tell me what to believe as I prefer to find it out on my own.

 

[dilloduck]

The Church of ME. Actually, I don't go at all any more. If I were to start again, I would probably try to find a Methodist church. I was raised Southern Baptist and I have been to Church of Christ, Church of God, Church of YOU NAME IT (well, within the normal realms of traditional churches - haven't been and don't desire to attend a Mormon Church or a Catholic Church or a Satanic Church - you get my drift) but I end up in trying to just understand what it is God wants me to know by myself. I hate relying on others to tell me what to believe as I prefer to find it out on my own.

I believe Einstien attributed his genius to the same thought process. Thinking for himself

 

[remie]

The Church of ME. Actually, I don't go at all any more. If I were to start again, I would probably try to find a Methodist church. I was raised Southern Baptist and I have been to Church of Christ, Church of God, Church of YOU NAME IT (well, within the normal realms of traditional churches - haven't been and don't desire to attend a Mormon Church or a Catholic Church or a Satanic Church - you get my drift) but I end up in trying to just understand what it is God wants me to know by myself. I hate relying on others to tell me what to believe as I prefer to find it out on my own.

Religion is very personal and should be. Sounds like you have tried a number of churches in your lifetime and I will bet that there was something about each one of them that turned you off. I have attended the Christian Church, Catholic Church and now the Presbyterian Church and I can honestly say that they all have their things that I disagree with. Having said that, as I get older, I have figured out that I am better off enjoying the parts of the denomination with which I am affiliated and voice my opinion when I disagree with something and let it go with that. I dont think that anyone who attends any church agrees 100% with all that the church teaches. I dont think that you have to have a church in your life to be fulfilled spiritually but it works for me. Thanks for your thoughts.

 

[Merlin1047]

http://www.townhall.com/columnists/dennisprager/dp20040720.shtml

http://www.dennisprager.com

I got a little suspicious after reading the article you provided. It contained much of the same semi-hysterical ranting that is often the response whenever any comment is made which even faintly criticizes the policies of the Israeli government.

The link and article below presents a more objective account of the actions of the Presbyterian church. Nowhere in the edict does it call for the "economic strangulation" of Israel. The church is simply showing its disagreement with and displeasure over the construction of the separation fence currently being erected in Israel. The Presbyterian church has chosen to divest itself of its holdings in those corporations who have an interest in Israel, it is not strangling anything, and it does not need the approval of Jews or the government of Israel in managing its finances.

The fence may be seen as a symbol of racist apartheid or a necessary measure to protect Israeli citizens from terror, depending on one's perspective. If the author of the article feels that the church erred in its assessment of the separation fence, then he should have specifically addressed the issue instead of damaging his credibility by engaging in misleading exaggerations.

As for me, I support Israel on most issues and have no problem with the fence. I DO have a problem with those who attempt to put us on a guilt trip every time we disagree with the Israelis.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1174076/posts
US Presbyterian Church calls for sanctions on Israel
Jerusalem Post ^ | July 17, 2004 | Melissa Radler


Posted on 07/19/2004 6:44:40 AM PDT by richardtavor


Leaders of the Presbyterian Church in the US approved a divestment campaign against Israel in a series of annual resolutions that included a condemnation of Israel's security fence, a decision to continue funding churches aimed at converting Jews to Christianity and a disavowal of Christian Zionism as a legitimate theological stance.

In a vote of 431 to 62, the 216th General Assembly of the Presbyterian Church USA compared Israel's policies to those of South Africa and approved gathering data to support a selective divestment of holdings in multinational corporations doing business in Israel/ Palestine, a July 2 church release noted. The church's liaison to the Middle East, Rev. Victor Makari, noted after the vote that if nothing else seems to have changed the policy of Israel toward Palestinians, we need to send a clear and strong message.

In a letter to the church's leader Clifton Kirkpatrick, Anti-Defamation League interfaith affairs director Rabbi Gary Bretton-Granatoor called the resolutions offensive and distressing.

To assert that there is a moral equivalency between the racist policy of apartheid and the efforts to protect the citizenry of Israel is unconscionable, Bretton-Granatoor wrote.

 

[Zhukov]

I wasnt familiar with the author of the article posted,

He's a conservative Jewish radio talk show host, and college lecturer, out of San Diego. He teaches the Old Testament in the original Hebrew.

 

[ajwps]

Since you closed my other thread, I just thought it would be nice to post my response before you closed that thread.

BINGO! Was waiting to see how long it would take for you to start passing judgement and suggesting that God would send me to hell for disagreeing with you. Which part of the Holy Trinity are you?

I am not any part of the holy trinity but am waiting for the sequel, Return of the Christ, Part II. Did I say that G-d would send you to hell? I thought I suggested that your words and deeds deserve some sort of universal justice. I did not pass judgement but merely suggested that as you condemned me by the time I was thirty was deserving of a like response. What part of the Holy Ghost trinity are you?

I'M defensive????????????
And MY faith is blind??????? Waaaaaaaaaaahahahahahahahahahahahaha!

You said it brother, not me.

AJ, you're like a vial of nitro glycerin. You get a little nudge and you blow up, scattering bullshit in a 100 meter radius. You are the poster child for knee-jerk reactions.

You are really an objective observer and judge of my measured responses. Your rather inflammatory language appears to reveal your rather explosive reaction to perceived attack. You are certainly not reactionary.

Kindly refrain from attributing your deficient character traits to others. You only succeed in making an even bigger fool of yourself than you usually do.

Thanks for your condescending advice. It is taken in the context of its source.

Normally I wouldn't bother responding to you, but I have a little time to waste this morning. However, I have reached the limit of my tolerance for your self-righteous stupidity. Rave on to your heart's content, I've had all the fun I can stand.

Great admission of throwing in the towel. Tolerance and patience are a virtue especially if you feel you are in the right.....

 

[dilloduck]

So what is it that you suggest that Americans due about the decision by this church council?

 

[DKSuddeth]

Since you closed my other thread, I just thought it would be nice to post my response before you closed that thread.

who closed what other thread?

 

[Merlin1047]

who closed what other thread?

Jeff closed it. But AJ has proven his adaptability. He can rant and be moronic on multiple threads.

 

[DKSuddeth]

Jeff closed it.

ok, carry on.