Precision in Nature: Evidence of God or Accidents?

[Alter2Ego]

So explain the cocker spaniel. This certainly not a wolf. It was bred into existence by men tinkering with breeding. It was not created that way. It was bred that way.

Existing in the fossil record are numerous examples of animals that are no more. Part of the theory of evolution is that species will disappear if they are not suited to changing environments. Missing from the fossil record are most of today's species.

Is it your thesis that the Creator created a whole ecosystem complete with all of the accompanying flora and fauna, discovered he made a mistake, wiped the slate clean and started off in a new direction?

Why do this on the same planet? Why not simply create a new planet and leave the old one to churn along? This would be a big deal to us, but not to him.

If he is all seeing and all knowing, how could this have unfolded?

ALTER2EGO -to- CODE1211:

Dogs belong to the wolf family and can interbreed with wolves. Cocker spaniel is a variation of dog/wolf species. All species of creatures are capable of producing variations of themselves--whether it is done naturally or by human interference. In the case of the cocker spaniel, the resulting animal was still be a dog.

God created humans, plants, animals, insects, etc. with the ability to produce variations of themselves within a genetic bound or limit. Once that limit has been reached, the human, plant, animal, etc. cannot go beyond what is within its genetic information and change to a different species (macroevolution).

For instance, let's use common cooking ingredients and call those the genetic information, and let's call the resulting product the human, plant, animal, etc. If you blended the ingredients of a pound of flour, 2 teaspoons of baking powder, a little salt to taste, 8 tablespoons of shortening, and a can of coconut milk and knead it into a dough and bake it, all you can expect to get from that mixture of ingredients is biscuits. If you leave out some of the shortening and put in less coconut cream, you will wind up with pizza dough. If you add more shortening, you will wind up with scones, etc. In other words different combinations of the same ingredients will produce variations of bread-like baked goods. But you will never, for example, get a peach cobbler or a carrot cake from those ingredients because no sugar, carrots, or peach are among the ingredients (the genetic information).

That is the case with the genetic information that God put in each type of animal, plant, insect, fish, human, etc. Different blendings of the same genetic info--within the particular species--will produce variations of the exact same creature and all of the variations will be able to interbreed because they are still basically the same creature. This point is further explained by author Harun Yahya:

"Variation is a genetic phenomenon that causes individuals or groups within a species to exhibit different characteristics. For example, all the humans on Earth possess basically the same genetic information. But thanks to the variation potential that genetic information permits, some have dark skin, others red hair or blond, and some are tall in stature."
(Source: The Error of The Evolution of Species, by Harun Yahya)

 

[Alter2Ego]

Complete bullshit. We have observed speciation;

Observed Instances of Speciation

Wrong what has been observed is microevolution learn the difference between the two. Never has flies become nonflies. Never has humans become nonhumans. Never has horses become nonhorses. Never has bacteria become nonbacteria,That is macroevolution.

A change of traits within a family or group is microevolution.

ALTER2EGO -to- YOU WERE CREATED:

And as I'm sure you know, the term "microevolution" is nothing more than a fabricated word that was made up by pro-evolution scientists--to replace the term "variation of the exact same animal." In other words the creature didn't evolve or change into something else. It merely produced a variation of itself or adapted to environmental changes. If it started off as a short-haired rabbit in a hot climate, it adapted to colder climates by producing more fur. But it is still a rabbit.

 

[Alter2Ego]

Those are simply dogmatic views. The reason why there are so many different dating methods is because they are all unreliable.

When you can take differents parts of the same tree or rock and come up with different ages for the same tree and rock that is a problem.What was really funny was when a tree was done that people knew the age of the tree when it was handed over for testing they wewre only off by about 20.000 years.

And the answer to my question which you ignored?

Some creationist believe the timeline of the bible and I do to but I am not sure if we go by God's timeline or mans. If we go by God's timeline the scriptures say a thousand years is a day to God so that would mean each day of creation was a thousand years. and the following the timeline of the bible man has been on the earth for 6,000 years plust the time of creation then we would be looking at the earth being 12,000 to 13,000 years old.

If each creation day was a 24 hour period by mans timeline then yes the earth is over 6,000 years. But no one knows for sure it is only based on speculation.

ALTER2EGO -to- YOU WERE CREATED:

Although the Bible says a human 24-hour day is as a thousand years to Jehovah, that timeline does not apply to the age of the earth for the simple reason that Jehovah does not restrict himself to a thousand year for a day. Notice below that both times those scriptures are used in the Bible, it is with reference to God's relationship with mortal humans.

"However, let this one fact not be escaping your notice, beloved ones, that one day is with Jehovah as a thousand years and a thousand years as one day." (2 Peter 3:8)

"{3} You make mortal man go back to crushed matter, and you say: 'Go back, you sons of men.' {4} For a thousand years are in your eyes but as yesterday when it is past, and as a watch during the night." (Psalms 90:4)


Did you notice the words that are underlined in both of the quoted scriptures, indicating that the "thousand years to a day" is with reference to God's relationship with mortal humans?

Remember, Jehovah is eternal—meaning he has no beginning and no end. He had all the time in the world to create the earth and universe so that everything would be done just right. Therefore, he didn't need to rush through with the creation of the earth and the universe. In other words, each of the six creative days could have lasted hundreds of thousand of years and put the age of the earth to billions of years old. Of course as you correctly said, nobody knows for sure how old the earth is. (Some estimate it be 4.5 billion years old.)

Animals and humans were created during the 6th creative day. Since, according to Bible chronology, humans have only existed about 6,000 years, logically, humans were created towards the very end of the 6th creative day.

 

[code1211]

Those are simply dogmatic views. The reason why there are so many different dating methods is because they are all unreliable.

When you can take differents parts of the same tree or rock and come up with different ages for the same tree and rock that is a problem.What was really funny was when a tree was done that people knew the age of the tree when it was handed over for testing they wewre only off by about 20.000 years.

And the answer to my question which you ignored?

Some creationist believe the timeline of the bible and I do to but I am not sure if we go by God's timeline or mans. If we go by God's timeline the scriptures say a thousand years is a day to God so that would mean each day of creation was a thousand years. and the following the timeline of the bible man has been on the earth for 6,000 years plust the time of creation then we would be looking at the earth being 12,000 to 13,000 years old.

If each creation day was a 24 hour period by mans timeline then yes the earth is over 6,000 years. But no one knows for sure it is only based on speculation.

It's hard to construct a response to this as it's completely lacking in any kind of rationality.

However, answers like this one demonstrate the crying need to teach Creationism side by side with Evolution and the other Sciences.

 

[code1211]

So explain the cocker spaniel. This certainly not a wolf. It was bred into existence by men tinkering with breeding. It was not created that way. It was bred that way.

Existing in the fossil record are numerous examples of animals that are no more. Part of the theory of evolution is that species will disappear if they are not suited to changing environments. Missing from the fossil record are most of today's species.

Is it your thesis that the Creator created a whole ecosystem complete with all of the accompanying flora and fauna, discovered he made a mistake, wiped the slate clean and started off in a new direction?

Why do this on the same planet? Why not simply create a new planet and leave the old one to churn along? This would be a big deal to us, but not to him.

If he is all seeing and all knowing, how could this have unfolded?

ALTER2EGO -to- CODE1211:

Dogs belong to the wolf family and can interbreed with wolves. Cocker spaniel is a variation of dog/wolf species. All species of creatures are capable of producing variations of themselves--whether it is done naturally or by human interference. In the case of the cocker spaniel, the resulting animal was still be a dog.

God created humans, plants, animals, insects, etc. with the ability to produce variations of themselves within a genetic bound or limit. Once that limit has been reached, the human, plant, animal, etc. cannot go beyond what is within its genetic information and change to a different species (macroevolution).

For instance, let's use common cooking ingredients and call those the genetic information, and let's call the resulting product the human, plant, animal, etc. If you blended the ingredients of a pound of flour, 2 teaspoons of baking powder, a little salt to taste, 8 tablespoons of shortening, and a can of coconut milk and knead it into a dough and bake it, all you can expect to get from that mixture of ingredients is biscuits. If you leave out some of the shortening and put in less coconut cream, you will wind up with pizza dough. If you add more shortening, you will wind up with scones, etc. In other words different combinations of the same ingredients will produce variations of bread-like baked goods. But you will never, for example, get a peach cobbler or a carrot cake from those ingredients because no sugar, carrots, or peach are among the ingredients (the genetic information).

That is the case with the genetic information that God put in each type of animal, plant, insect, fish, human, etc. Different blendings of the same genetic info--within the particular species--will produce variations of the exact same creature and all of the variations will be able to interbreed because they are still basically the same creature. This point is further explained by author Harun Yahya:

"Variation is a genetic phenomenon that causes individuals or groups within a species to exhibit different characteristics. For example, all the humans on Earth possess basically the same genetic information. But thanks to the variation potential that genetic information permits, some have dark skin, others red hair or blond, and some are tall in stature."
(Source: The Error of The Evolution of Species, by Harun Yahya)

You seem like a reasonable person, but your are applying matters of faith to matters of Science. It doesn't work.

Using your example of cooking, you speak of the ingredients and then conclude that using those ingredients, only one result or a slim range of results can occur. This is obviously false as all of Earth's creatures are made of the same stuff. The only differences are the combinations of the proteins in the DNA and the DNA in all creatures is also made of the same stuff.

You apparently have no idea what Evolution is and have somehow determined that accepting Evolution is rejecting your belief system. If that is the case, then your belief system is not adequate to cope with Creation. As such, either Creation or your belief system is not right.

The limitations you discuss are not applied by God two maintain order. What kind of an all powerful Entity that is all knowing needs to have a discipline of order that is understood by men? It is your belief system, unable to spot the order that has applied limitations to a system that you do not understand.

If you could feel the breath of God or see His plan, you would cease to see and feel all else.

Why do you pose as a solver of riddles trying to please Him with ideas that he would surely find laughable?

 

[code1211]

And the answer to my question which you ignored?

Some creationist believe the timeline of the bible and I do to but I am not sure if we go by God's timeline or mans. If we go by God's timeline the scriptures say a thousand years is a day to God so that would mean each day of creation was a thousand years. and the following the timeline of the bible man has been on the earth for 6,000 years plust the time of creation then we would be looking at the earth being 12,000 to 13,000 years old.

If each creation day was a 24 hour period by mans timeline then yes the earth is over 6,000 years. But no one knows for sure it is only based on speculation.

ALTER2EGO -to- YOU WERE CREATED:

Although the Bible says a human 24-hour day is as a thousand years to Jehovah, that timeline does not apply to the age of the earth for the simple reason that Jehovah does not restrict himself to a thousand year for a day. Notice below that both times those scriptures are used in the Bible, it is with reference to God's relationship with mortal humans.

"However, let this one fact not be escaping your notice, beloved ones, that one day is with Jehovah as a thousand years and a thousand years as one day." (2 Peter 3:8)

"{3} You make mortal man go back to crushed matter, and you say: 'Go back, you sons of men.' {4} For a thousand years are in your eyes but as yesterday when it is past, and as a watch during the night." (Psalms 90:4)


Did you notice the words that are underlined in both of the quoted scriptures, indicating that the "thousand years to a day" is with reference to God's relationship with mortal humans?

Remember, Jehovah is eternal—meaning he has no beginning and no end. He had all the time in the world to create the earth and universe so that everything would be done just right. Therefore, he didn't need to rush through with the creation of the earth and the universe. In other words, each of the six creative days could have lasted hundreds of thousand of years and put the age of the earth to billions of years old. Of course as you correctly said, nobody knows for sure how old the earth is. (Some estimate it be 4.5 billion years old.)

Animals and humans were created during the 6th creative day. Since, according to Bible chronology, humans have only existed about 6,000 years, logically, humans were created towards the very end of the 6th creative day.

You are quoting stories that were handed down from generation to generation for many years before being written down. They were explanations of the order of things that would make sense to a Stone Age Culture.

 

[Youwerecreated]

And the answer to my question which you ignored?

Some creationist believe the timeline of the bible and I do to but I am not sure if we go by God's timeline or mans. If we go by God's timeline the scriptures say a thousand years is a day to God so that would mean each day of creation was a thousand years. and the following the timeline of the bible man has been on the earth for 6,000 years plust the time of creation then we would be looking at the earth being 12,000 to 13,000 years old.

If each creation day was a 24 hour period by mans timeline then yes the earth is over 6,000 years. But no one knows for sure it is only based on speculation.

It's hard to construct a response to this as it's completely lacking in any kind of rationality.

However, answers like this one demonstrate the crying need to teach Creationism side by side with Evolution and the other Sciences.

Creationist are not arrogant enough to say they know something for sure when we have no way of knowing for sure. It's one or the either when you are a believer. Either mans timeline or God's.

 

[Youwerecreated]

Some creationist believe the timeline of the bible and I do to but I am not sure if we go by God's timeline or mans. If we go by God's timeline the scriptures say a thousand years is a day to God so that would mean each day of creation was a thousand years. and the following the timeline of the bible man has been on the earth for 6,000 years plust the time of creation then we would be looking at the earth being 12,000 to 13,000 years old.

If each creation day was a 24 hour period by mans timeline then yes the earth is over 6,000 years. But no one knows for sure it is only based on speculation.

ALTER2EGO -to- YOU WERE CREATED:

Although the Bible says a human 24-hour day is as a thousand years to Jehovah, that timeline does not apply to the age of the earth for the simple reason that Jehovah does not restrict himself to a thousand year for a day. Notice below that both times those scriptures are used in the Bible, it is with reference to God's relationship with mortal humans.

"However, let this one fact not be escaping your notice, beloved ones, that one day is with Jehovah as a thousand years and a thousand years as one day." (2 Peter 3:8)

"{3} You make mortal man go back to crushed matter, and you say: 'Go back, you sons of men.' {4} For a thousand years are in your eyes but as yesterday when it is past, and as a watch during the night." (Psalms 90:4)


Did you notice the words that are underlined in both of the quoted scriptures, indicating that the "thousand years to a day" is with reference to God's relationship with mortal humans?

Remember, Jehovah is eternal—meaning he has no beginning and no end. He had all the time in the world to create the earth and universe so that everything would be done just right. Therefore, he didn't need to rush through with the creation of the earth and the universe. In other words, each of the six creative days could have lasted hundreds of thousand of years and put the age of the earth to billions of years old. Of course as you correctly said, nobody knows for sure how old the earth is. (Some estimate it be 4.5 billion years old.)

Animals and humans were created during the 6th creative day. Since, according to Bible chronology, humans have only existed about 6,000 years, logically, humans were created towards the very end of the 6th creative day.

You are quoting stories that were handed down from generation to generation for many years before being written down. They were explanations of the order of things that would make sense to a Stone Age Culture.

Stone age people knew there were springs at the bottom of the ocean ?

Stone age people knew we were made up of ingredients of the ground ?

Stone age people knew and understood the hydrologic system ?

Stone age people knew to quartine the sick ?

Stone age people knew they were to properly wash to prevent getting sick from unhealthy bacteria ?

 

[uscitizen]

ALTER2EGO -to- EVERYONE:

AGRUMENT #1 FOR AN INTELLIGENT CREATOR:

For the average person, precision indicates that an intelligent person guided the outcome. According to Webster's New World College Dictionary, the word "precision" is defined as follows:

"the quality of being precise; exactness, accuracy"


The reverse of precision is an accident aka a spontaneous event that happen by chance with no one guiding the outcome. Webster’s New Collegiate Dictionary defines an accident as:

"a nonessential event that happens by chance and has undesirable or unfortunate results"


Scientific evidence shows there is extreme precision in everything around us in the natural world. This precision renders the evolution theory and the Big Bang theory mere fiction, for precision leaves no room for error or for accidental events. Take, for example, the first discovered 60 elements on the Periodic Table of the Elements of planet earth. Some of these 60 elements are gases and are therefore invisible to the human eye. The atoms--from which the Earth's elements are made--are specifically related to one another. In turn, the elements--e.g. arsenic, bismuth, chromium, gold, krypton--reflect a distinct, natural numeral order based upon the structure of their atoms. This is a proven LAW.

The precision in the order of the elements made it possible for scientists such as Mendeleyev, Ramsey, Moseley, and Bohr to theorize the existence of unknown elements and their characteristics. These elements were later discovered, just as predicted. Because of the distinct numerical order of the elements, the word LAW is applied to the Periodic Table of the Elements. (Sources: (1) The McGraw-Hill Encyclopedia of Science & Technology, (2) "Periodic Law," from Encyclopædia Britannica, Vol. VII, p. 878, copyright 1978, (3) The Hutchinson Dictionary of Scientific Biography


SIDE NOTE: Laws found in nature, as defined by Webster's New World Dictionary, are:

"a sequence of events that have been observed to occur with UNVARYING UNIFORMITY under the same conditions."


QUESTIONS FOR DISCUSSION:
1. Were it not for the precise relationship among the first 60 discovered elements on the Periodic Table, would scientists have been able to accurately predict the existence of forms of matter that at the time were unknown?

2. Could the precise law within the first 60 discovered elements (on the Periodic Table) have resulted by chance aka spontaneously aka by accident? Or is this evidence for the existence an intelligent Designer/God who guided the outcome?

3. Evolution relies upon things happening by chance aka at random. If evolution were a fact, how does it account for the Periodic Table of the Elements of planet earth in which the first 60 discovered elements are so precise, and so interrelated with one another, that it has been assigned the word "LAW"?

Like tornadoes primarially hitting red states?

 

[Youwerecreated]

So explain the cocker spaniel. This certainly not a wolf. It was bred into existence by men tinkering with breeding. It was not created that way. It was bred that way.

Existing in the fossil record are numerous examples of animals that are no more. Part of the theory of evolution is that species will disappear if they are not suited to changing environments. Missing from the fossil record are most of today's species.

Is it your thesis that the Creator created a whole ecosystem complete with all of the accompanying flora and fauna, discovered he made a mistake, wiped the slate clean and started off in a new direction?

Why do this on the same planet? Why not simply create a new planet and leave the old one to churn along? This would be a big deal to us, but not to him.

If he is all seeing and all knowing, how could this have unfolded?

ALTER2EGO -to- CODE1211:

Dogs belong to the wolf family and can interbreed with wolves. Cocker spaniel is a variation of dog/wolf species. All species of creatures are capable of producing variations of themselves--whether it is done naturally or by human interference. In the case of the cocker spaniel, the resulting animal was still be a dog.

God created humans, plants, animals, insects, etc. with the ability to produce variations of themselves within a genetic bound or limit. Once that limit has been reached, the human, plant, animal, etc. cannot go beyond what is within its genetic information and change to a different species (macroevolution).

For instance, let's use common cooking ingredients and call those the genetic information, and let's call the resulting product the human, plant, animal, etc. If you blended the ingredients of a pound of flour, 2 teaspoons of baking powder, a little salt to taste, 8 tablespoons of shortening, and a can of coconut milk and knead it into a dough and bake it, all you can expect to get from that mixture of ingredients is biscuits. If you leave out some of the shortening and put in less coconut cream, you will wind up with pizza dough. If you add more shortening, you will wind up with scones, etc. In other words different combinations of the same ingredients will produce variations of bread-like baked goods. But you will never, for example, get a peach cobbler or a carrot cake from those ingredients because no sugar, carrots, or peach are among the ingredients (the genetic information).

That is the case with the genetic information that God put in each type of animal, plant, insect, fish, human, etc. Different blendings of the same genetic info--within the particular species--will produce variations of the exact same creature and all of the variations will be able to interbreed because they are still basically the same creature. This point is further explained by author Harun Yahya:

"Variation is a genetic phenomenon that causes individuals or groups within a species to exhibit different characteristics. For example, all the humans on Earth possess basically the same genetic information. But thanks to the variation potential that genetic information permits, some have dark skin, others red hair or blond, and some are tall in stature."
(Source: The Error of The Evolution of Species, by Harun Yahya)

You seem like a reasonable person, but your are applying matters of faith to matters of Science. It doesn't work.

Using your example of cooking, you speak of the ingredients and then conclude that using those ingredients, only one result or a slim range of results can occur. This is obviously false as all of Earth's creatures are made of the same stuff. The only differences are the combinations of the proteins in the DNA and the DNA in all creatures is also made of the same stuff.

You apparently have no idea what Evolution is and have somehow determined that accepting Evolution is rejecting your belief system. If that is the case, then your belief system is not adequate to cope with Creation. As such, either Creation or your belief system is not right.

The limitations you discuss are not applied by God two maintain order. What kind of an all powerful Entity that is all knowing needs to have a discipline of order that is understood by men? It is your belief system, unable to spot the order that has applied limitations to a system that you do not understand.

If you could feel the breath of God or see His plan, you would cease to see and feel all else.

Why do you pose as a solver of riddles trying to please Him with ideas that he would surely find laughable?

We are all living under a test. Do we go with mans way of life or God's way you are seeing mans system at this time. But let's not forget satan because behind the scenes this is his system.

2Co 4:4 in whom the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelieving ones, so that the light of the glorious gospel of Christ (who is the image of God) should not dawn on them.

 

[Dragon]

Dogmatic,pot calling the kettle black again Dragon ?

Not at all, and you are acting out of unconscious reflex it appears. It seems to me in this thread we are on the same side.

 

[Dragon]

So far, nether of the creationists participating here has even tried to present a way to falsify intelligent design. Let me make something clear. I'll bold it just to point up that it's important.

Creationism or ID is not a 'default" that will become accepted automatically if the theory of evolution is disproved. These ideas must be justified in themselves, completely independently of evolution. Therefore, any criticism offered of evolution is completely useless for what you actually want to do, namely promote the idea of creation.

So there's no point even discussing evolution. We need to establish your ideas as an alternative FIRST, before we do, and in order to do that you need to demonstrate that they are scientific theories. And the first requirement of a scientific theory is that it be falsifiable.

So once again: tell us what test we could perform, what experiment or observation, that could prove that intelligent design is FALSE (if it is false). I presented one such test above for the theory of evolution. If you can do the same for ID, then it will become a theory that deserves consideration.

Until then, it isn't worthy of consideration, and any criticism you offer of evolution is accomplishing nothing except to piss away language.

 

[Youwerecreated]

Dogmatic,pot calling the kettle black again Dragon ?

Not at all, and you are acting out of unconscious reflex it appears. It seems to me in this thread we are on the same side.

Not if you believe in macroevolution.

 

[Dragon]

Dogmatic,pot calling the kettle black again Dragon ?

Not at all, and you are acting out of unconscious reflex it appears. It seems to me in this thread we are on the same side.

Not if you believe in macroevolution.

Code, not you.

Ready to try your hand at presenting a falsifiable theory of intelligent design yet?

 

[Youwerecreated]

So far, nether of the creationists participating here has even tried to present a way to falsify intelligent design. Let me make something clear. I'll bold it just to point up that it's important.

Creationism or ID is not a 'default" that will become accepted automatically if the theory of evolution is disproved. These ideas must be justified in themselves, completely independently of evolution. Therefore, any criticism offered of evolution is completely useless for what you actually want to do, namely promote the idea of creation.

So there's no point even discussing evolution. We need to establish your ideas as an alternative FIRST, before we do, and in order to do that you need to demonstrate that they are scientific theories. And the first requirement of a scientific theory is that it be falsifiable.

So once again: tell us what test we could perform, what experiment or observation, that could prove that intelligent design is FALSE (if it is false). I presented one such test above for the theory of evolution. If you can do the same for ID, then it will become a theory that deserves consideration.

Until then, it isn't worthy of consideration, and any criticism you offer of evolution is accomplishing nothing except to piss away language.

How is believing something and trusting in chance to do everything we see more viable then design ?

Something like molecules reproducing themselves they can't without outside influences. There is much evidence of design that gets ignored by your side.

Can you imagine many of the groups of organisms surviving while they were slowly evolving over time ?

The giraffe as an ecellent example of what would have happened to it if it slowly evolved over thousands and or millions of years.

Let's not forget the many living fossils that show no evolutionary change from the same organisms that were supposedly dated back millions of years and they show no change today.

Living-Fossils.com

Living-Fossils.com

Living-Fossils.com

 

[Youwerecreated]

Not at all, and you are acting out of unconscious reflex it appears. It seems to me in this thread we are on the same side.

Not if you believe in macroevolution.

Code, not you.

Ready to try your hand at presenting a falsifiable theory of intelligent design yet?

The word of God is falsifiable and the bible say's creation took place. We see a fossil record that supports the creation theory.

Here is more for you to swallow.

Falsifiability of Creation - Conservapedia

 

[Dragon]

The word of God is falsifiable

All right. Tell us what test would prove the Bible to be false.

By the way, the first sentence in your link was so nonsensical I decided not to bother with the rest. Creation is not "nonfalsifiable the same as evolution." Evolution IS falsifiable; I presented one test for it above.

I don't want to simply assume that creation is nonfalsifiable, either. If you know a test that can prove creation false, please describe it to us.

 

[Dragon]

Regarding the claim that the Bible is without error, that is easily disproved. There are many such proofs, but I give you the differing genealogies of Jesus in two different Gospels, neither of which according to Christian belief is really the genealogy of Jesus as it claims, since Jesus is not believed to be the son of Joseph anyway.

Of course, as I've stated before, the Bible is really many books, not one, and so this really only proves that those two Gospels are not infallible. It says nothing about the book of Genesis. So let's consider that for a moment.

To falsify Genesis, we would need to find claims in it that conflict with what we know from independent sources to be true. In order for this to be possible, it must be that we accept independent sources as being capable of demonstrating errors in Genesis. For example, if we wish to examine the sequence of creation of living things against the fossil record to see if it is accurate, then first we must agree that if the fossil record shows a different sequence of emergence of living things, then we conclude that Genesis is in error. Similarly, if we can find independent historical evidence that contradicts later accounts in Genesis, we conclude that the book is in error.

If you are prepared to agree to this, then Genesis will become falsifiable and we can examine whether it can be taken as proof of anything. If not, then you are not making a falsifiable claim.

EDIT: Note that falsifying the book of Genesis will not actually falsify the account in Genesis of the creation, unless that's specifically what we examine to see if it is false. All it will show is that we cannot conclude, merely because Genesis says something, that it is true. It could still be the case that something which happens to be in the book also happens to be true; we simply will not be able to use it as an authority.

 

[code1211]

ALTER2EGO -to- YOU WERE CREATED:

Although the Bible says a human 24-hour day is as a thousand years to Jehovah, that timeline does not apply to the age of the earth for the simple reason that Jehovah does not restrict himself to a thousand year for a day. Notice below that both times those scriptures are used in the Bible, it is with reference to God's relationship with mortal humans.

"However, let this one fact not be escaping your notice, beloved ones, that one day is with Jehovah as a thousand years and a thousand years as one day." (2 Peter 3:8)

"{3} You make mortal man go back to crushed matter, and you say: 'Go back, you sons of men.' {4} For a thousand years are in your eyes but as yesterday when it is past, and as a watch during the night." (Psalms 90:4)


Did you notice the words that are underlined in both of the quoted scriptures, indicating that the "thousand years to a day" is with reference to God's relationship with mortal humans?

Remember, Jehovah is eternal—meaning he has no beginning and no end. He had all the time in the world to create the earth and universe so that everything would be done just right. Therefore, he didn't need to rush through with the creation of the earth and the universe. In other words, each of the six creative days could have lasted hundreds of thousand of years and put the age of the earth to billions of years old. Of course as you correctly said, nobody knows for sure how old the earth is. (Some estimate it be 4.5 billion years old.)

Animals and humans were created during the 6th creative day. Since, according to Bible chronology, humans have only existed about 6,000 years, logically, humans were created towards the very end of the 6th creative day.

You are quoting stories that were handed down from generation to generation for many years before being written down. They were explanations of the order of things that would make sense to a Stone Age Culture.

Stone age people knew there were springs at the bottom of the ocean ?

Stone age people knew we were made up of ingredients of the ground ?

Stone age people knew and understood the hydrologic system ?

Stone age people knew to quartine the sick ?

Stone age people knew they were to properly wash to prevent getting sick from unhealthy bacteria ?

Stone Age people were still people and had all of the talents and abilities that this implies. The answer to all of your questions is that if this explained things to a terrified population or was observed to help with a problem, then, yes, they "knew" these things.

I know nothing of the molecular characteristics of Tequila, but I know that it used to make Mrs. Code's clothes fall off and it it made me so sick once that I haven't ingested the stuff for 40 years.

My understanding of Tequila is on the level of a Stone Age person's understanding of most things. Nothing magic or mystical about it.

Out of curiosity, how are "the springs at the bottom of the ocean" described in the Old Testemant?

 

[code1211]

ALTER2EGO -to- CODE1211:

Dogs belong to the wolf family and can interbreed with wolves. Cocker spaniel is a variation of dog/wolf species. All species of creatures are capable of producing variations of themselves--whether it is done naturally or by human interference. In the case of the cocker spaniel, the resulting animal was still be a dog.

God created humans, plants, animals, insects, etc. with the ability to produce variations of themselves within a genetic bound or limit. Once that limit has been reached, the human, plant, animal, etc. cannot go beyond what is within its genetic information and change to a different species (macroevolution).

For instance, let's use common cooking ingredients and call those the genetic information, and let's call the resulting product the human, plant, animal, etc. If you blended the ingredients of a pound of flour, 2 teaspoons of baking powder, a little salt to taste, 8 tablespoons of shortening, and a can of coconut milk and knead it into a dough and bake it, all you can expect to get from that mixture of ingredients is biscuits. If you leave out some of the shortening and put in less coconut cream, you will wind up with pizza dough. If you add more shortening, you will wind up with scones, etc. In other words different combinations of the same ingredients will produce variations of bread-like baked goods. But you will never, for example, get a peach cobbler or a carrot cake from those ingredients because no sugar, carrots, or peach are among the ingredients (the genetic information).

That is the case with the genetic information that God put in each type of animal, plant, insect, fish, human, etc. Different blendings of the same genetic info--within the particular species--will produce variations of the exact same creature and all of the variations will be able to interbreed because they are still basically the same creature. This point is further explained by author Harun Yahya:

"Variation is a genetic phenomenon that causes individuals or groups within a species to exhibit different characteristics. For example, all the humans on Earth possess basically the same genetic information. But thanks to the variation potential that genetic information permits, some have dark skin, others red hair or blond, and some are tall in stature."
(Source: The Error of The Evolution of Species, by Harun Yahya)

You seem like a reasonable person, but your are applying matters of faith to matters of Science. It doesn't work.

Using your example of cooking, you speak of the ingredients and then conclude that using those ingredients, only one result or a slim range of results can occur. This is obviously false as all of Earth's creatures are made of the same stuff. The only differences are the combinations of the proteins in the DNA and the DNA in all creatures is also made of the same stuff.

You apparently have no idea what Evolution is and have somehow determined that accepting Evolution is rejecting your belief system. If that is the case, then your belief system is not adequate to cope with Creation. As such, either Creation or your belief system is not right.

The limitations you discuss are not applied by God two maintain order. What kind of an all powerful Entity that is all knowing needs to have a discipline of order that is understood by men? It is your belief system, unable to spot the order that has applied limitations to a system that you do not understand.

If you could feel the breath of God or see His plan, you would cease to see and feel all else.

Why do you pose as a solver of riddles trying to please Him with ideas that he would surely find laughable?

We are all living under a test. Do we go with mans way of life or God's way you are seeing mans system at this time. But let's not forget satan because behind the scenes this is his system.

2Co 4:4 in whom the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelieving ones, so that the light of the glorious gospel of Christ (who is the image of God) should not dawn on them.

Does passing this test rely on being uninformed?