Potential problems with Zimmerman Indictment

[catzmeow]

It's a blog, but it has a good sampling of opinions from legal experts, and makes for interesting reading.

Two thoughts. First, our system of justice is not fair. I think most people will objectively acknowledge this. If Martin was accused of shooting Zimmerman, I don't doubt he'd have been in a jail cell on the evening of the incident.

Having said that, a defendent should not be railroaded legally for political purposes. And, I'm a little concerned that this may be happening to George Zimmerman.

Here's a fairly concise one, but there are more:

I watched with surprise at the unfolding decision by state attorney Corey to file second degree murder against Zimmerman. Corey is reputed to be a prosecutor who is both tough and possessing integrity. For all I know, she and her colleagues have all sorts of evidence that hasn’t yet been leaked and that would support a murder charge beyond a reasonable doubt.

But if everything we’ve seen reported is true (and I’ll assume this provides a useful summary), and there aren’t other missing pieces of evidence, I cannot fathom how a jury would return a guilty verdict for murder. If that’s right, what could justify bringing a murder charge? Certainly, the idea of charging high with the hope of inducing a plea could explain bringing a murder charge as a matter of tactics. But it would not be a justified basis for bringing a murder charge. To my mind, it would be repugnant to bring a high charge if the prosecutor herself does not readily believe in it, and if it is not readily provable beyond a reasonable doubt. Some jurisdictions or prosecutors’ offices might say: this is complicated stuff, we have an adversary system, let the jury sort it out. That’s a cop-out. Prosecutors are not partisans or advocates; they’re agents of public justice. I have no special insight into Corey’s evidence files but I sure hope she knows more than we do. Otherwise, a murder charge seems like a terrific injustice, and one that happens so frequently that it’s become difficult to see in plain sight.

The Zimmerman Indictment: Reactions | The Agitator

 

[PredFan]

It's a blog, but it has a good sampling of opinions from legal experts, and makes for interesting reading.

Two thoughts. First, our system of justice is not fair. I think most people will objectively acknowledge this. If Martin was accused of shooting Zimmerman, I don't doubt he'd have been in a jail cell on the evening of the incident.

Our justice system isn't fair, but it's the fairest one in the world. I don't buy the bull shit that Martin would have been in jail if the situation was reversed.

Having said that, a defendent should not be railroaded legally for political purposes. And, I'm a little concerned that this may be happening to George Zimmerman.

Agreed.

Here's a fairly concise one, but there are more:

I watched with surprise at the unfolding decision by state attorney Corey to file second degree murder against Zimmerman. Corey is reputed to be a prosecutor who is both tough and possessing integrity. For all I know, she and her colleagues have all sorts of evidence that hasn’t yet been leaked and that would support a murder charge beyond a reasonable doubt.

But if everything we’ve seen reported is true (and I’ll assume this provides a useful summary), and there aren’t other missing pieces of evidence, I cannot fathom how a jury would return a guilty verdict for murder. If that’s right, what could justify bringing a murder charge? Certainly, the idea of charging high with the hope of inducing a plea could explain bringing a murder charge as a matter of tactics. But it would not be a justified basis for bringing a murder charge. To my mind, it would be repugnant to bring a high charge if the prosecutor herself does not readily believe in it, and if it is not readily provable beyond a reasonable doubt. Some jurisdictions or prosecutors’ offices might say: this is complicated stuff, we have an adversary system, let the jury sort it out. That’s a cop-out. Prosecutors are not partisans or advocates; they’re agents of public justice. I have no special insight into Corey’s evidence files but I sure hope she knows more than we do. Otherwise, a murder charge seems like a terrific injustice, and one that happens so frequently that it’s become difficult to see in plain sight.

Yeah, I hope it isn't just political posturing. We'll see when the evidence comes out.

 

[blastoff]

That was an interesting read. How right or wrong they are we'll find out down the road.

 

[catzmeow]

Our justice system isn't fair, but it's the fairest one in the world. I don't buy the bull shit that Martin would have been in jail if the situation was reversed.

Actually, I would say that there are countries out there that are more effective at criminal justice than we are. And, I don't care what you buy. I work in the system. I suspect our experiences on a daily basis are vastly different.

Yeah, I hope it isn't just political posturing. We'll see when the evidence comes out.

Yes, we will. Something clearly happened, but it's far from definitive exactly what that something was.

 

[Ariux]

If Martin was accused of shooting Zimmerman, I don't doubt he'd have been in a jail cell on the evening of the incident.

I guess I'm not as ignorant and as prejudiced as you. Every day, there are blacks who shoot in self defense and are not locked up. Do you think if the races were reversed, there'd be some public criticism of the white guy for assaulting the African?

I watched with surprise at the unfolding decision by state attorney Corey to file second degree murder against Zimmerman.

I was surprised, given that there's no evidence against Zimmerman. But, if I had known/considered that the state prosecutor is an elected female, I would have expected charges. Refusing to charge Zimmerman would probably have cost her the next election (but, if the races were reversed, she'd be free to do the right thing).

For all I know, she and her colleagues have all sorts of evidence that hasn’t yet been leaked and that would support a murder charge beyond a reasonable doubt.

Anything not leaked, like Trayvon's toxicology results, will only support Zimmerman.

 

[catzmeow]

I was surprised, given that there's no evidence against Zimmerman.

The evidence hasn't been released, pillow biter.

Anything not leaked, like Trayvon's toxicology results, will only support Zimmerman.

More thread fail. I predict your stay here will be painful.

 

[Ariux]

More thread fail. I predict your stay here will be painful.

In your dreams. My track record here is one of dishing out pain, while your side is unable to touch me. You're betting foolishly against the mountain of evidence that we already have.

 

[catzmeow]

More thread fail. I predict your stay here will be painful.

In your dreams. My track record here is one of dishing out pain, while your side is unable to touch me. You're betting foolishly against the mountain of evidence that we already have.

Yes, that explains the massive pile of public support you've accumulated.

 

[Ariux]

Yes, that explains the massive pile of public support you've accumulated.

My goal in life isn't to win popularity contests, or to win the approval of idiots and a-holes. Besides, surrounding yourself with low-quality people keeps you away from high-quality people.

 

[Liability]

First, a quibble, but a kind of a big one:

There is NO indictment.

The special prosecutor chose NOT to put the case before a Grand jury. A Grand Jury may indict,. A special prosecutor does not. She merely prefers charges via an "information."

We should not give the kind of dignity to a prosecutor's mere information that we would grant to the action of a Grand Jury.

Second point; with but a few (fairly minor) exceptions, none of us has SEEN any actual evidence. Taht being the case, I cannot imagine that any guesswork as to the ultimate outcome by any of us -- at least at this early juncture -- is worth diddly.

 

[Ariux]

with but a few (fairly minor) exceptions, none of us has SEEN any actual evidence.

Did some African smash your head on the concrete, causing permanent brain damage? We've seen a lot of evidence. We've heard the 911 calls. We've seen the police report and the charging affidavit. We know Trayvon is black. What could possible trump what we already know?

 

[Liability]

with but a few (fairly minor) exceptions, none of us has SEEN any actual evidence.

Did some African smash your head on the concrete, causing permanent brain damage? We've seen a lot of evidence. We've heard the 911 calls. We've seen the police report and the charging affidavit. We know Trayvon is black. What could possible trump what we already know?

When I want to discuss something with a racist asshole nitwit piece of shit, I'll keep you in mind.

Until then, fuck off shit head.

As I was saying (correctly) to the intelligent people (this clearly excludes you Ariyuucchs), we have not seen the evidence.

We all know that Trayvon got shot, but even the racist shit-suckers like you couldn't tell us WHERE on his body the bullet's point of entry was.

You racist goons cannot account for the LACK of the physical appearance on Zimmerman of any (discernible) hint of a broken nose on the videotape taken that same day at the police precinct.

We have not seen ANY autopsy reports, photographs or sketches.

We have exactly ZERO forensic evidence of GSR or blood spatter etc.

The conclusion any intelligent objective person would reach AT THIS MOMENT is that we are not in a proper position to gauge whether or not Zimmerman's conduct was justified.

Oh, and Ariyuuuchs: fuck yourself, pin dick.

 

[catzmeow]

with but a few (fairly minor) exceptions, none of us has SEEN any actual evidence.

Did some African smash your head on the concrete, causing permanent brain damage? We've seen a lot of evidence. We've heard the 911 calls. We've seen the police report and the charging affidavit. We know Trayvon is black. What could possible trump what we already know?

When I want to discuss something with a racist asshole nitwit piece of shit, I'll keep you in mind.

Until then, fuck off shit head.

As I was saying (correctly) to the intelligent people (this clearly excludes you Ariyuucchs), we have not seen the evidence.

We all know that Trayvon got shot, but even the racist shit-suckers like you couldn't tell us WHERE on his body the bullet's point of entry was.

You racist goons cannot account for the LACK of the physical appearance on Zimmerman of any (discernible) hint of a broken nose on the videotape taken that same day at the police precinct.

We have not seen ANY autopsy reports, photographs or sketches.

We have exactly ZERO forensic evidence of GSR or blood spatter etc.

The conclusion any intelligent objective person would reach AT THIS MOMENT is that we are not in a proper position to gauge whether or not Zimmerman's conduct was justified.

Oh, and Ariyuuuchs: fuck yourself, pin dick.

Ifly. I even had a little tear.

 

[catzmeow]

First, a quibble, but a kind of a big one:

There is NO indictment.

The special prosecutor chose NOT to put the case before a Grand jury. A Grand Jury may indict,. A special prosecutor does not. She merely prefers charges via an "information."

We should not give the kind of dignity to a prosecutor's mere information that we would grant to the action of a Grand Jury.

Second point; with but a few (fairly minor) exceptions, none of us has SEEN any actual evidence. Taht being the case, I cannot imagine that any guesswork as to the ultimate outcome by any of us -- at least at this early juncture -- is worth diddly.

True. It keeps being referred to in online sources as an indictment, but it clearly isn't. It's merely a document containing her reasons for charging Zimmerman. And, a pretty thin document, at that.

 

[Ariux]

When I want to discuss something with a racist asshole nitwit piece of shit, I'll keep you in mind.

Why? Do you think I can direct you to someone like Al Sharpton or the Martin family?

We all know that Trayvon got shot, but even the racist shit-suckers like you couldn't tell us WHERE on his body the bullet's point of entry was.

Trayvon was shot in the chest. We already have three sources of this information (the police report, the autopsy as reported by the Prosecutor, and the African embalmer of the corpse).

You racist goons cannot account for the LACK of the physical appearance on Zimmerman of any (discernible) hint of a broken nose on the videotape taken that same day at the police precinct.

We already know from the police report that Zimmerman was bleeding from the nose and was treated by paramedics. Witnesses say was was wearing a bandage on his nose the next day. That nose bleed didn't happen from the high altitude.

We have not seen ANY autopsy reports, photographs or sketches.

If the autopsy supported Trayvon, it would have been released. And, per my earlier question, what new detail do you think can possible trump what we already know? If it turns out Trayvon was high on crack? We know his only wound is the gunshot.

We have exactly ZERO forensic evidence of GSR or blood spatter etc.

Seriously, what, in your diarrhea-filled skull, do you think could possibly help Trayvon? Hypothetically.

The conclusion any intelligent objective person would reach AT THIS MOMENT is that we are not in a proper position to gauge whether or not Zimmerman's conduct was justified.

You are not an intelligent person. You are in no position to know what an intelligent person would conclude, not unless you can put aside your bigotry and accept what I'm telling you.

 

[Liability]

* * * *

About as far into your post as I was willing to read.

As I said, Ariyuuuuchs. Fuck off, pin dick.

 

[Ariux]

* * * *

About as far into your post as I was willing to read.

As I said, Ariyuuuuchs. Fuck off, pin dick.

You don't take being pwned very well.

 

[Liability]

* * * *

About as far into your post as I was willing to read.

As I said, Ariyuuuuchs. Fuck off, pin dick.

You don't take being pwned very well.

Shitforbrain nothings like you will never know.

 

[catzmeow]

* * * *

About as far into your post as I was willing to read.

As I said, Ariyuuuuchs. Fuck off, pin dick.

You don't take being pwned very well.

In your sad little neo-nazi world, does pwnage occur when you bend over, grasp your ankles and ask someone to drive a dump truck up your rectum?

If so, yes, you've been pwned. Hard.