Postal Service to cut 40,000 Jobs - Non-Union workers first to be cut

[Againsheila]

Well, that's capitalism for you. Free market gets to determine your salary. Starbucks CEO made $16.1 million in 2006.

These same "free markets" that are providing a $trillion bailout plan??

 

[dilloduck]

These same "free markets" that are providing a $trillion bailout plan??

Man it's all numbers anymore--huge numbers--I defy anyone who says they can keep track of it.

 

[DavidS]

These same "free markets" that are providing a $trillion bailout plan??

You don't want to see America without a GM, or a Ford or a Chrysler. I promise you, you don't want to see it.

If GM shares fall below $1 before Obama is inagurated, we're going to be in serious sh*t.

 

[acludem]

USPS is suffering like every other business because people aren't spending money right now. Folks are drowning in debt, more and more are losing jobs, so fewer and fewer have money to spend. Our economy is in ruins because of unchecked corporate risk-taking brought on by greedy, corrupt executives looking to make a fast buck and knowing even if they screwed up they'd just float to some tropical island on their golden parachute. This is what economic conservatism gets you. When the government isn't exerting some influence over the economy, corporations will run wild. Completely free markets don't work anymore. There are too few corporate entities with too much market control for that to fly.

 

[Navy1960]

Yeah, the economy is bad, but Boeing made record profits and had the nerve to cut retirement and healthcare benefits. This wasn't about a pay raise, this was about take aways. Many people have already put in 20-40 years with Boeing and they've had take aways before so they could have more in their retirement years but now that so many are getting ready to retire, Boeing wants to take those retirement benefits they ALREADY worked for away from them, this at a time when they've made RECORD profits.

Yeah, Unions are terrible, after all, they brought us the 5 day work week, the end of child labor, overtime, sick leave, health benefits, holidays, gee how terrible.

One more thing, Boeing WANTED the strike. They outsourced all those parts for the 787 and when they all came together none of them fit. The strike gave Boeing an excuse for not making on time deliveries and gave them a break financially. IMO, the Union shouldn't have struck, but then if they hadn't Boeing might be going bankrupt, what with all the fines they'd have to pay for late deliveries.

The only people who lost anything in this strike was the workers, who lost the income they would have made during that time.

I don't know what part of my posting left you with the impression that Unions were terrible. What I do think however, is that the Union especially in the Boeing instance went on strike to make a point on outsourcing and at a critical juncture in the 787 program which is already plagued with delays. The 787 is for the most part an all composite commercial aircraft and as this will be the first all composite aircraft for the commercial market Boeing has ever built delays are pretty common. Those record profits your talking about are a direct result of the two things. one is the positive reception of the 787 in the market place and the C-17 and other Military sales. Boeing has for years oursourced the construction of its aircraft. The 777, and the 737 are very good examples of that. If you care to look and being from Wa. you should know this already that China and Australia are very big players in the construction of both of those aircraft. While it may sound good to the lay public that none of the parts fit and only the Union can fix it and deliver the aircraft on time, thats a complete falshood. Boeing did NOT want this strike, why would a company want it's Machinists to strike, right before the first flight of an aircraft that will represent it's ENTIRE commercial aircraft future? The fact is the Machinists and the Boeing Unions went on strike to send a message to Boeing that they did not want any more of the construction of the 787 to go offshore at the expense of the American workers. What this little message strike did though was hurt the workers themselves and Boeing too. Great timing, during an economic crisis don't you think?

Boeing is pleased to have been invited to help Chinese companies develop skills, achieve certification, and join world aviation and supplier networks. China has a sophisticated and expanding part to play in the commercial aviation industry and has a role on all of Boeing commercial airplane models-737, 747, 767, 777 and the newest and most innovative airplane, the 787 Dreamliner. China builds horizontal stabilizers, vertical fins, the aft tail section, doors, wing panels, wire harnesses and other parts on the Next-Generation 737; 747 trailing edge wing ribs; and 747-8 ailerons, spoilers and inboard flaps, and parts of the horizontal stabilizer. China also has an important role on the new 787 Dreamliner airplane, building the rudder, wing-to-body fairing panels, leading edge and panels for the vertical fin, and other composite parts.
Boeing: The Boeing Company and China Home

Boeing says the first flight of the 787 has been delayed to 2009 as a result of the recently settled machinists strike.

Boeing says “given the duration of the IAM work stoppage, first flight of the 787 Dreamliner will not be accomplished in the fourth quarter of 2008. The timeframe for first flight has not been established and will be based on the strike recovery assessment. The program is working to determine a new program schedule that will be announced when it is finalized.”

Adding to the post-strike recovery issues, Boeing also reveals it is dealing with yet more fastener problems having recently discovered that some of these have been incorrectly installed on at least two aircraft in final assembly. Although Boeing was making progress toward completing assembly of the first flight test aircraft, ZA001, before the strike hit, the combined delays have pushed first flight into 2009 and first deliveries likely into 2010.

New Delays Push 787 First Flight Back To 2009 | AVIATION WEEK

Incorrectly installed!!! is a code word for " bad workmanship " . In the Aviation industry bad workmanship kills people, so of course Boeing is right in slowing the delivery to make sure these defects are all taken care of.

Now as you point on Unions, while they of course have a place in workplace. My position has been very simple, a Union should be allowed to represent those workers that wish to be represented by them, however those that do not wish that representation should not be forced to do so and money taken from them for representation they do not wish. While the Union has done from a historical perspective great things for workers, I submit that the the markets today are global and Unions need to get out of the the 1950's mode of representation and recoginze that in order to keep those jobs they need to be flexible enough to support the survival of the companies they work for. It appears at least on the surface that some Unions would rather the companies just die rather than concede one thing in order to insure the survival of the company they work for. So am I anti-union, no, am I anti-forced unionization then YES.

 

[strollingbones]

10 years ago i used the post office to mail all my bills etc..today i do not mail any bills..its all electronic. .. i use to sell on ebay and mail about 10 to 15 packages a week ...ebay fees got too high....i still prefer my bills in the snail mail but i am sure that will end soon with most of the switching to electronic billing. the us post office has simply grown obsolete in todays market.

 

[Navy1960]

10 years ago i used the post office to mail all my bills etc..today i do not mail any bills..its all electronic. .. i use to sell on ebay and mail about 10 to 15 packages a week ...ebay fees got too high....i still prefer my bills in the snail mail but i am sure that will end soon with most of the switching to electronic billing. the us post office has simply grown obsolete in todays market.

I try to avoid the post office at all costs, first of all the way they handle packages makes you want to cringe. I have a postal carrier who thinks it's perfectly okay to toss a computer or cell phone out the window and leave it on the side of the road next to my mail box rather than leave next to my back door. I completely agree on the ebay thing, I no longer use ebay to sell anything as the fee's got way too high. The post office needs to compete in a market place with Fed-X and others and is losing in that market place badly and as I mentioned in a previous post, it is not surprising at all due to this they are now facing lay-offs.

 

[Againsheila]

I don't know what part of my posting left you with the impression that Unions were terrible. What I do think however, is that the Union especially in the Boeing instance went on strike to make a point on outsourcing and at a critical juncture in the 787 program which is already plagued with delays. The 787 is for the most part an all composite commercial aircraft and as this will be the first all composite aircraft for the commercial market Boeing has ever built delays are pretty common. Those record profits your talking about are a direct result of the two things. one is the positive reception of the 787 in the market place and the C-17 and other Military sales. Boeing has for years oursourced the construction of its aircraft. The 777, and the 737 are very good examples of that. If you care to look and being from Wa. you should know this already that China and Australia are very big players in the construction of both of those aircraft. While it may sound good to the lay public that none of the parts fit and only the Union can fix it and deliver the aircraft on time, thats a complete falshood. Boeing did NOT want this strike, why would a company want it's Machinists to strike, right before the first flight of an aircraft that will represent it's ENTIRE commercial aircraft future? The fact is the Machinists and the Boeing Unions went on strike to send a message to Boeing that they did not want any more of the construction of the 787 to go offshore at the expense of the American workers. What this little message strike did though was hurt the workers themselves and Boeing too. Great timing, during an economic crisis don't you think?

Boeing is pleased to have been invited to help Chinese companies develop skills, achieve certification, and join world aviation and supplier networks. China has a sophisticated and expanding part to play in the commercial aviation industry and has a role on all of Boeing commercial airplane models-737, 747, 767, 777 and the newest and most innovative airplane, the 787 Dreamliner. China builds horizontal stabilizers, vertical fins, the aft tail section, doors, wing panels, wire harnesses and other parts on the Next-Generation 737; 747 trailing edge wing ribs; and 747-8 ailerons, spoilers and inboard flaps, and parts of the horizontal stabilizer. China also has an important role on the new 787 Dreamliner airplane, building the rudder, wing-to-body fairing panels, leading edge and panels for the vertical fin, and other composite parts.
Boeing: The Boeing Company and China Home

Boeing says the first flight of the 787 has been delayed to 2009 as a result of the recently settled machinists strike.

Boeing says “given the duration of the IAM work stoppage, first flight of the 787 Dreamliner will not be accomplished in the fourth quarter of 2008. The timeframe for first flight has not been established and will be based on the strike recovery assessment. The program is working to determine a new program schedule that will be announced when it is finalized.”

Adding to the post-strike recovery issues, Boeing also reveals it is dealing with yet more fastener problems having recently discovered that some of these have been incorrectly installed on at least two aircraft in final assembly. Although Boeing was making progress toward completing assembly of the first flight test aircraft, ZA001, before the strike hit, the combined delays have pushed first flight into 2009 and first deliveries likely into 2010.

New Delays Push 787 First Flight Back To 2009 | AVIATION WEEK

Incorrectly installed!!! is a code word for " bad workmanship " . In the Aviation industry bad workmanship kills people, so of course Boeing is right in slowing the delivery to make sure these defects are all taken care of.

Now as you point on Unions, while they of course have a place in workplace. My position has been very simple, a Union should be allowed to represent those workers that wish to be represented by them, however those that do not wish that representation should not be forced to do so and money taken from them for representation they do not wish. While the Union has done from a historical perspective great things for workers, I submit that the the markets today are global and Unions need to get out of the the 1950's mode of representation and recoginze that in order to keep those jobs they need to be flexible enough to support the survival of the companies they work for. It appears at least on the surface that some Unions would rather the companies just die rather than concede one thing in order to insure the survival of the company they work for. So am I anti-union, no, am I anti-forced unionization then YES.

Okay, first of all, Boeing wanted the strike because it gave them an excuse for delaying delivery without having to pay fines.

As for forced union representation, I don't think anyone should be forced to join a union but I don't think they should benefit from the union either. They shouldn't get the same pay and benefits that the union members fought for.

Hmm, let's see, that means they're back to working 6 days a week 10 hours a day with no overtime, no holidays and very little pay.

 

[Againsheila]

You don't want to see America without a GM, or a Ford or a Chrysler. I promise you, you don't want to see it.

If GM shares fall below $1 before Obama is inagurated, we're going to be in serious sh*t.

So it's capitalism for the working man, but socialism for the corporations that are responsible for this mess in the first place?

 

[Navy1960]

Okay, first of all, Boeing wanted the strike because it gave them an excuse for delaying delivery without having to pay fines.

As for forced union representation, I don't think anyone should be forced to join a union but I don't think they should benefit from the union either. They shouldn't get the same pay and benefits that the union members fought for.

Hmm, let's see, that means they're back to working 6 days a week 10 hours a day with no overtime, no holidays and very little pay.

Respectfully Sheila , Boeing has delayed delivery for this aircraft several times due to issues with suppliers, poor workmanship during assembly, and the fact this is an all new aircraft type. So if the fact that Boeing wanted a strike to lose billions in order to avoid paying scheduled penalties to purchasers which I might add have been waived in over 96% of the cases is weak at best. Further Boeing, has delayed the the entry of this aircraft into the market at least 4 times prior to the strike, so again your assertion that they did so to avoid fines is not supported.

I am glad you agree with me on the Union issue as it relates to those that do not wish to members. However, if a person does the same job man , woman, Union, or non-Uinion in any compnay they should recieve the same pay and benefits. If the company and the key word here is company, decides to pay it's employee's a salary then Uion membership should not be a requirement as to what that salary should be. What is lost here is that fact that Unions believe that salary is something that they set, when in fact it is the company that does. A person Chooses to work at Boeing or any other company, Boeing does not force them to work there, and by doing so, they should be willing to accept the rules that Boeing sets down in exchange for a salary and the benefits that go along with that.

"While significant progress has been made assembling Airplane Number 1, first flight is being rescheduled due to slower than expected completion of work that traveled from supplier facilities into Boeing's final assembly line, unanticipated rework, and the addition of margin into the testing schedule," the company said in a statement.



Boeing Confirms Fourth 787 Delay | Aviation