Possible Good news for Captive Marine...

[NewGuy]

Originally posted by OCA
Everybody believe what you want, this asshole was AWOL and running to his brother Muslims.

The Marine?

-Or Patriot54?

 

[Patriot54]

Originally posted by NewGuy
As I said, you have just invalidated the argument.

Next?

It wasn't a complicated question - if you can't answer a simple yes or no, then don't try and talk so tough.

 

[NewGuy]

Originally posted by Patriot54
It wasn't a complicated question - if you can't answer a simple yes or no, then don't try and talk so tough.

-And to think that if you cannot figure out you speak to myself and yourself both, yet claim to actually KNOW something, you have issues.

Oh, yeah......KERRY 2004!!!

Duh.

 

[OCA]

Originally posted by NewGuy
The Marine?

-Or Patriot54?

The Marine was running to the Muslims, Patriot is running to his socialist brother Kerry.

 

[NewGuy]

Originally posted by OCA
The Marine was running to the Muslims, Patriot is running to his socialist brother Kerry.

:cof:

 

[Patriot54]

Originally posted by NewGuy
-And to think that if you cannot figure out you speak to myself and yourself both, yet claim to actually KNOW something, you have issues.

I never claimed to know much about it - I was being as honest as I could based on what I do know. And what I do know for a fact is that I would pretty damn scared with a knife to my throat or a gun to my head.

I'm forced to take your avoidance of my question as a "no". If you had ever been enlisted, you probably would have just come out and said so. If I'm right, then you're in the same boat as I am, you're entitled to your opinions but they're not based on firsthand experience. That is why I asked freeandfun what the protocol was - he would probably know and we wouldn't. Maybe I was also talking tough, I wouldn't know unless it happened to me.

 

[Annie]

Patriot, your response to New Guy, whether correct or not, is the first logical argument I've seen you make today. You're thinking instead of mimicking or 'feeling'. Good show!

 

[NewGuy]

I thought it would never happen!

:

My point was that when raising a point about the military and bringing up your view, you must consider the experience of others.

You immediately raised issue of wether or not I had experience being captured and proceeded to condemn my view.

Where you went wrong is the assumption that when neither of us had ever been captured, your point was anymore valid than mine.

This was the issue.

My avoidance was to get you to use logic and facts in the discussion.

In the end, you made logical deductions and a resonable point surfaces.

 

[MtnBiker]

In all fairness, there already is a member by the username Patriot. This member could be referred as 54.

 

[Annie]

Originally posted by MtnBiker
In all fairness, there already is a member by the username Patriot. This member could be referred as 54.

Good point. Today we also got a 'merlin' arrggg. So we'll have to include the original's number or just call him by number!

 

[freeandfun1]

Originally posted by Patriot54
That is fair enough, but I disagree with the last part. How did we get from "Possible good news for captured Marine" to "tried as a deserter and the maximum penalty is death". That doesn't sound like good news to me.

But since you have been in the military, tell us what soldiers are supposed to do if captured. I'm not saying that in a condescending or sarcastic way - I seriously would like to know. (I may have a problem with some people in our government, but have 100% respect for our troops and their service) I tried to do a search about protocol for captured soldiers, but I couldn't find anything about it.

I cannot speak for the Marine Corps, but in the Army we have the Soldier's Creed and the Soldiers Code. The Soldier's Code states:

The Soldier's Code

I am an American soldier - a protector of the greatest nation on earth - sworn to uphold the Constitution of the United States.

I will treat others with dignity and respect and expect others to do the same.

I will honor my Country, the Army, my unit and my fellow soldiers by living the Army Values.

No matter what situation I am in, I will never do anything for pleasure, profit, or personal safety which will disgrace my uniform, my unit, or my Country.

Lastly, I am proud of my Country and its flag. I want to look back and say that I am proud to have served my Country as a soldier.

The Soldier's Creed states:

Soldier’s Creed

I am an American Soldier.

I am a Warrior and a member of a team. I serve the people of the United States and live the Army Values.

I will always place the mission first.
I will never accept defeat.
I will never quit.
I will never leave a fallen comrade.

I am disciplined, physically and mentally tough, trained and proficient in my warrior tasks and drills. I always maintain my arms, my equipment and myself.

I am an expert and I am a professional.

I stand ready to deploy, engage, and destroy the enemies of the United States of America in close combat.

I am a guardian of freedom and the American way of life.

I am an American Soldier.

The Code of Conduct of the United States Army states:

Code of Conduct of the United States Army

1. I am an American, fighting in the forces which guard my country and our way of life. I am prepared to give my life in their defense.

2. I will never surrender of my own free will. If in command, I will never surrender the members of my command while they still have the means to resist.

3. If I am captured, I will continue to resist by all means available. I will make every effort to escape and aid others to escape. I will accept neither parole nor special favors from the enemy.

4. If I become a prisoner of war, I will keep faith in my fellow prisoners. I will give no information or take part in any action which might be harmful to my comrades. If I am senior, I will take command. If not, I will obey the lawful orders of those appointed over me and back them up in every way.

5. When questioned, should I become a prisoner of war, I am required to give name, rank, service number, and date of birth. I will evade answering further questions to the utmost of my ability. I will make no oral or written statements disloyal to my country and its allies or harmful to their cause.

6. I will never forget that I am an American, fighting for freedom, responsible for my actions, and dedicated to the principles which made my country free. I will trust in my God and the United States of America.

I am sure the Marine Code of Conduct is very similar.

 

[Patriot54]

Originally posted by Kathianne
Patriot, your response to New Guy, whether correct or not, is the first logical argument I've seen you make today. You're thinking instead of mimicking or 'feeling'. Good show!

Thank you, but it's not really about logic. I know most of you guys are going to disagree with me on most topics, but I'd rather be here talking with all of you than on a totally left wing board where everyone would agree with me - that wouldn't really accomplish anything. I'm open to the idea that I might even see something in a new light being here and (believe it or not) some of you might see some things differently too. Anything's possible, I guess.

I don't understand why some people in this thread are so against what I said. Was it insensitive or something? I didn't think so. So maybe it was irrelevant to even speculate what I might do, because I will most likely never have to make that decision. That is why I asked for the opinion of someone who has been there.

 

[Annie]

Originally posted by Patriot54 I don't understand why some people in this thread are so against what I said. Was it insensitive or something? I didn't think so.

Only because you didn't take time to get the 'lay of the land.' You thought, and I do apologize for repeating myself here, that we needed 'enlightenment' and damn, you were going to give it to us. As I said earlier, I for one, but not alone by any means, do read all spectrum of news sources. I watch PBS and the written sources I explained before. YOU are prejudiced, thinking that conservatives only want to hear echos.

Open you mind a bit, and you will be heard.

 

[Patriot54]

Originally posted by NewGuy
My point was that when raising a point about the military and bringing up your view, you must consider the experience of others.

You immediately raised issue of wether or not I had experience being captured and proceeded to condemn my view.

Where you went wrong is the assumption that when neither of us had ever been captured, your point was anymore valid than mine.

This was the issue.

My avoidance was to get you to use logic and facts in the discussion.

In the end, you made logical deductions and a resonable point surfaces.

That is fair and I respect it - I just get a little defensive when people respond with insults. I did take the long way around before I got down to the point, but you didn't have to go through all that. Just come out with what you want to say - I'm either going to agree or disagree no matter how you say it. I'll try to avoid the "what ifs" from now on, but I was just being honest. If that makes me a coward, so be it. All I know is that I would try to do my best, just like my grandfather, uncles and brother did when they fought for our great country.

How about a truce? We can agree to disagree without letting it get personal, ok?

Freeandfun - thanks for the info. It's getting late, but if I don't read it all tonight, I will finish it next time.

 

[NewGuy]

Originally posted by Patriot54
That is fair and I respect it - I just get a little defensive when people respond with insults. I did take the long way around before I got down to the point, but you didn't have to go through all that. Just come out with what you want to say - I'm either going to agree or disagree no matter how you say it. I'll try to avoid the "what ifs" from now on, but I was just being honest. If that makes me a coward, so be it. All I know is that I would try to do my best, just like my grandfather, uncles and brother did when they fought for our great country.

How about a truce? We can agree to disagree without letting it get personal, ok?

Hey, no prob.

Just a note--

Most people of the Kerry persuasion only get down to brass tacks with logic (if they use it) when they get emotional.

Of that percentage, a single digit percent actually revert to logic. The rest get huffy, loose their cool, and show they had no clue but instead just an emotional response.

If you maintain logic to your argument, you will get much more respect in the conversations.

 

[Annie]

Well said New Guy. Surprisingly with fewer words than I!

:clap1:

 

[freeandfun1]

You're welcome. And don't forget, when soldiers sign up, they are taught during basic what the military is all about. If they don't want to go forward, they can quit at any time. This guy made a conscious decision to trade his duty and oath to his country for his life. He surrendered himself to the enemy. I am just glad that he is only a bad apple and the whole bunch ain't like him. If he is recaptured by the US, his punishment should be swift and it needs to set an example.

 

[NewGuy]

Originally posted by Kathianne
Well said New Guy. Surprisingly with fewer words than I!

:clap1:

I am sitting in a room with no ac and near 100 degrees.

It wears on your patience and makes you want to get to the bottom line!

 

[Annie]

Originally posted by NewGuy
I am sitting in a room with no ac and near 100 degrees.

It wears on your patience and makes you want to get to the bottom line!

2nd time today I hit the monitor with coffee! :

 

[NewGuy]

Originally posted by Kathianne
2nd time today I hit the monitor with coffee! :

"Just doin' m' job maam."

:cof: