Possible Episcopal Split

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by 5stringJeff, Sep 30, 2003.

  1. 5stringJeff
    Offline

    5stringJeff Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2003
    Messages:
    9,990
    Thanks Received:
    536
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Puyallup, WA
    Ratings:
    +540
    Here's the latest news from the Anglican church:

    --------------------------------
    AP: Episcopal Leader Defends Gay Bishop
    Mon Sep 29, 9:49 PM ET
    By RACHEL ZOLL, AP Religion Writer

    NEW YORK - With two key meetings ahead that could determine whether the Episcopal Church splits over homosexuality, the denomination's leader defended his support Monday for an openly gay bishop in an interview with The Associated Press.

    Presiding Bishop Frank Griswold said he voted at last month's General Convention to confirm Bishop-elect V. Gene Robinson because Episcopalians in New Hampshire had overwhelmingly chosen him in their local election and had the right to make that choice. Griswold also argued that Scripture does not condemn same-sex relationships, a position conservatives vehemently reject.

    Robinson has lived with his male partner for more than 13 years and worked in the Diocese of New Hampshire for about 15 years.

    "I wasn't settling the question of sexuality. I was affirming the choice of a diocese," Griswold said, seated in his midtown Manhattan office.

    Later, he said that in biblical times there was no understanding that homosexuality was a natural orientation and not a choice.

    "Discreet acts of homosexuality" were condemned in the Bible because they were acts of lust instead of the "love, forgiveness, grace" of committed same-sex relationships, he said.

    "Homosexuality, as we understand it as an orientation, is not mentioned in the Bible," he said. "I think the confirmation of the bishop of New Hampshire is acknowledging what is already a reality in the life of the church and the larger society of which we are a part."

    Griswold made the comments at a critical time for his leadership of the 2.3-million member Episcopal Church.

    Next week, the conservative American Anglican Council will gather more than 1,400 lay Episcopalians, bishops and clergy in Dallas to decide whether to break from the denomination over Robinson.

    The following week, on Oct. 15-16, Griswold will join fellow leaders of the world Anglican Communion at an emergency meeting in London to prevent their association from fracturing over the gay bishop and other issues related to homosexuality.

    The Episcopal Church is the U.S. branch of the 77-million-member global Anglican Communion, which represents churches that trace their roots to the Church of England.

    Archbishop of Canterbury Rowan Williams, the communion's spiritual leader, summoned the other 37 church primates to London after several overseas bishops threatened to sever ties with the Americans. Archbishop of Nigeria Peter Akinola called electing Robinson "a satanic attack on God's church."

    U.S. conservatives have asked Williams to consider authorizing a separate Anglican province in North America. Griswold would not say whether he thought the idea would be approved, but said he believed it would require a vote by the American church's General Convention, not a decision by Williams, to authorize it.

    "It would involve our own decision-making processes, our own constitution, so most likely it would require action by the General Convention," he said.

    Asked his reaction to demands from some critics that he be sanctioned personally, Griswold shrugged and said "whatever will be, will be." But he also said he would explain to the other Anglican leaders that, unlike many of them, he does not have the authority to intervene in a diocese.

    Griswold said he has met with about 20 American bishops in New York and in visits to other dioceses since the national convention last month and was "deeply concerned" for those "troubled" by Robinson's confirmation.

    A handful of U.S. dioceses have held special conventions that rejected Robinson's ratification and asked world Anglican leaders to intervene.

    Some bishops and parishes have temporarily withheld payments from the national church and a few clergy have quit their parishes or the denomination altogether.

    But Griswold also said he saw hopeful signs in his talks with other Episcopalians that the church could remain unified.

    "Yes, we are dealing with something that is difficult and problematic and the end is not in sight and the consequences are not fully revealed," he said. "However, on balance there are many faithful Episcopalians, priests and bishops going about the ministry of reconciliation with gusto."
    -----------------------

    My thoughts:

    1. The Episcopalian church in America will split over this issue if it comes to a head. I don't know what the split will be, but I would guess that anywhere from 30-60% of the church would leave the denomination to form a separate, more Bible-based Anglican denomination. This new denomination, in turn, would probably be accepted by the worldwide Anglican church as the American branch of the Anglicans, since churches in Asia and Africa are much more scripturally based.

    2. It's really a shame that this would happen in the first palce. the Bible is pretty clear that homosexuality is a sin, whether you call it a 'lifestyle,' an 'orientation,' or whatever. I sincerely hope that Bishop Robinson is convicted in his heart about his sin and decides to repent of it.

    3. I really wish that other Christians would not be so judgmental towards homosexuals. It is one thing to call homosexuality a sin - and the Bible teaches us to warn one another if we are falling into sin. However, many Christians consider homosexuality to be sone kind of unforgivable sin, which is absolutely not true. I have seen the "Gods hates fags" signs and heard of people pretending to roast marshmellows over people in a gay pride march (symbolizing the gays roasting in hell). In my opinion, people like that have no conception of God's love, and do more to combat Christianity than anything else.

    Sorry to be on a soapbox... I just hate seeing the Church break apart under internal pressure like this.

    Jeff
     
  2. 5stringJeff
    Offline

    5stringJeff Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2003
    Messages:
    9,990
    Thanks Received:
    536
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Puyallup, WA
    Ratings:
    +540
    It's looking more and more official every day...

    --------------------------------------

    DALLAS - Conservative Episcopalians overwhelmingly backed a declaration Thursday that repudiates their denomination for becoming more accepting of gays and calls on a meeting of world Anglican leaders "to intervene in the Episcopal Church."

    By confirming the election of an openly gay bishop this summer and acknowledging that some bishops are allowing blessings of same-sex unions, the denomination's General Convention has "broken fellowship with the larger body of Christ," the statement said.

    The declaration also demands that the leadership of the Episcopal Church "repent of and reverse the unbiblical and schismatic" actions.

    It asks Anglican leaders to discipline Episcopal bishops who "have departed from biblical faith and order" and "guide the realignment of Anglicanism in North America." The Episcopal Church is the U.S. branch of the worldwide Anglican Communion.

    The statement was approved on the last day of an emotional gathering of about 2,700 Episcopal conservatives upset about the church's latest actions. Those who agreed with the statement were asked to stand — virtually everyone did.

    The possibility of a schism between the conservatives, who admit they're a minority in the U.S. denomination, and the rest of the church is looming ahead of an Anglican leaders' meeting next week in London.

    The primates of the Anglican Communion's 38 branches will discuss the American split and a similar dispute in Canada over homosexuality. The majority of the world's Anglican leaders favor the conservative position that there is a biblical prohibition on gay sex.

    Diane Knippers, a layperson from Fairfax, Va., said the meeting's message to Anglican leaders was that "we are begging you to act quickly and decisvely."

    Frank Griswold, presiding bishop of the Episcopal Church, responded with a statement Thursday reaching out to conservatives.

    "Regardless of what has been said or concluded, those gathered in Dallas are our brothers and sisters in Christ," Griswold wrote. "We must take seriously their grief and anger and seek as best we can to stand with them."

    But he also expressed concern about inflammatory rhetoric. "In such a climate, mutual pursuit of ways to build up rather than tear down is made more difficult," he said.

    The conservatives' statement also asks "orthodox bishops" to take like-mined congregations under their care — even if that means crossing diocesan boundaries. Such a move would be sure to anger the local Episcopal bishop.

    The statement also says conservative Episcopalians should redirect their financial giving "to the fullest extent possible" toward conservative ministries and away from the national denomination and other agencies that support its policies.

    After approving the declaration, people at the conference were asked to sign their copies of the document, which were then collected.
     
  3. Aquarian
    Offline

    Aquarian Member

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2003
    Messages:
    440
    Thanks Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Ratings:
    +1
    It's really nice to hear this kind of talk. Whatever my personal views, that attitude always strikes me as being more in line with the actual teachings of christ as presented in the bible that so many say the believe in but don't come close to living by.
     
  4. 5stringJeff
    Offline

    5stringJeff Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2003
    Messages:
    9,990
    Thanks Received:
    536
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Puyallup, WA
    Ratings:
    +540
    Here's the latest on the Episcopal Church. It looks like this is the first step in a formal split in the denomination, though the new network is denying that this is the case.

    ---------------
    PITTSBURGH - Thirteen bishops have agreed to form a network of dioceses and congregations that disapprove of the Episcopal Church's consecration of an openly gay bishop.

    Pittsburgh Bishop Robert W. Duncan will be the moderator of the new Network of Anglican Communion Dioceses and Parishes, which he said is not breaking with the Episcopal Church, the U.S. branch of the global Anglican Communion.

    Dioceses joining the network are Duncan's see in Pittsburgh and those based in Albany, N.Y.; Fresno, Calif.; Charleston, S.C.; Jacksonville, Fla.; Orlando, Fla.; Parrish, Fla.; Dallas; Fort Worth; Peoria, Ill.; Springfield, Ill.; Salina, Kan.; and Albuquerque, N.M.

    The purposes of the network is "to tell the truth to America that the Episcopal Church is telling a lie with the things they approved this summer," Duncan told The Associated Press Wednesday.
     
  5. Johnney
    Offline

    Johnney Senior Member

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2003
    Messages:
    4,330
    Thanks Received:
    141
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    IOWA
    Ratings:
    +141
    or so the bible says i think. according to my mom. shes a serious bible thumper. something about when the churches start pulling away from each other or something like that. Looks like the end of the world is coming...lol


    :cof:
     
  6. acludem
    Offline

    acludem VIP Member

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2003
    Messages:
    1,500
    Thanks Received:
    49
    Trophy Points:
    71
    Location:
    Missouri
    Ratings:
    +69
    Stories like this...well. I find it hard to understand why so many will take certain parts of the bible absolutely literally and then ignore other parts. The same area that states the "a man shall not lie with a man as with a woman" also states that children who disobey their parents are to be stoned. Fortune tellers are to be burned, and parents and children should never see each other naked. I haven't yet met a Christian that has stoned their child for disobeying, or one that would've supported the death penalty for Miss Cleo or one that has never seen their child naked. But boy that part about homosexuality, we have to follow that to the letter. I have Christian friends on both sides of this issue. Either follow all of it, or none of it. You can't pick and choose. I applaud those brave Episcopalians who are supporting this gay bishop.

    acludem
     
  7. Johnney
    Offline

    Johnney Senior Member

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2003
    Messages:
    4,330
    Thanks Received:
    141
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    IOWA
    Ratings:
    +141
    shit it hink my nephew took that one literally...little bastards always stoned...lol

    ewwwwwwwwwww...i have no desire to see my parents nekkid... let alone parade my chubby ass around in front of them

    the thing that gets me about this one is why they keep sending me emails!! if they are really pschic they should already know the answer before they send that shit
     
  8. 5stringJeff
    Offline

    5stringJeff Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2003
    Messages:
    9,990
    Thanks Received:
    536
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Puyallup, WA
    Ratings:
    +540
    acludem,

    I assume that you are referring to the Old Testament Law. If you read the whole Bible, you will find a few things. First, homosexuality is condemned in both the Old and New Testaments. Second, you will find that while the moral law of God never changes, the OT Law dictating punishments for breaking the Law (i.e. stoning kids for disobeying, death to fortune tellers) has now been superceded by God's grace towards us. In other words, it is still wrong (and a breach of God's moral law) to disobey your parents, or to engage in psychic activities, or to see your parents naked (gross!) or to engage in homosexual conduct. However, the punishment for those sins is atoned for through Jesus Christ and His redeeming death and resurrection.
     

Share This Page