CDZ poll: Will Bergdahl be convicted

[longknife]

With all the delays and appeals, I don't see a final judgment on the case until AFTER Obozo leaves office. That wouldn't stop him from issuing a pardon anyway.

 

[320 Years of History]

Obama is a practicing Christian...

His actions say otherwise.

When, in the main, it becomes clear that the vast majority of Christians -- practicing or not -- adhere to Jesus' instruction to love and treat one's neighbor as one loves and treats oneself, I'll accord, with regard to matters having political and/or social contexts, that it's at all relevant whether one is a Christian. As things stand now, I think saying someone whom one doesn't know personally, and know quite well, is a Christian is irrelevant, for whatever be the reason one bothered to mention it. I say it's irrelevant because daily I see repeated evidence that self-avowed Christians are just jackasses.

Take one simple and, in the scheme of world politics insignificant, example from USMB...go into the other subforums and find the instances of people just outright insulting another member with all manners of vulgar aspersions. I would wager that every time one finds a member who rags on Muslims, they are most likely self-proclaimed Christians. From that point, all one need do is review their posts to see if for all their recriminations about Muslims whether their USMB remarks exhibit the kindness of spirit that Christians supposedly show in all aspects of their daily lives. Will every such member be found wanting in the practice of their Christian values? No, surely not (I hope), but plenty will.

 

[ABikerSailor]

The chances of Bergdahl being pardoned by Obama are zero. He's not going to interfere with the military's decision.

Me personally? I say give him a BCD or DHD, consider his time in captivity as time served and get him sent home with no benefits.

I'm not all that informed on military jurisprudence, so I must ask.

• Wouldn't giving Mr. Bergdahl either of those two types of discharge call for him being given a fair trial, hearing, or something?
• Can the things you suggest be summarily issued at the discretion of some panel or individual?

Actually, the only way to get a BCD or DHD is at a courts martial (which he's already being given).

No, they can't be summarily issued by a panel or individual. There has to be a trial, and depending on the type of courts martial he decides to get, there will either be 1 judge hearing the case and deciding, or he will get a panel of 3 officers who will make the decision. Unlike civilian juries, the judges on a courts martial panel don't have to be unanimous, just have a majority decision. If 2 of the 3 officers found him guilty, it's considered to be a guilty verdict. Don't get the courts martial process confused with how a civilian court operates, because they are much different.

 

[320 Years of History]

The chances of Bergdahl being pardoned by Obama are zero. He's not going to interfere with the military's decision.

Me personally? I say give him a BCD or DHD, consider his time in captivity as time served and get him sent home with no benefits.

I'm not all that informed on military jurisprudence, so I must ask.

• Wouldn't giving Mr. Bergdahl either of those two types of discharge call for him being given a fair trial, hearing, or something?
• Can the things you suggest be summarily issued at the discretion of some panel or individual?

Actually, the only way to get a BCD or DHD is at a courts martial (which he's already being given).

No, they can't be summarily issued by a panel or individual. There has to be a trial, and depending on the type of courts martial he decides to get, there will either be 1 judge hearing the case and deciding, or he will get a panel of 3 officers who will make the decision. Unlike civilian juries, the judges on a courts martial panel don't have to be unanimous, just have a majority decision. If 2 of the 3 officers found him guilty, it's considered to be a guilty verdict. [Don't confuse] the courts martial process confused with how a civilian court operates, because they are much different.

TY for the reply.

Yes, I don't know much about how they work, but I knew that they "work" very differently from civilian courts. That's precisely why I had to ask the question to which you replied. Again, TY for answering it.

FWIW, if you are interested, I'm willing to do so research and figure out what I think about your proposed course of action, but right now, I don't have the first idea what I will think of it. I know what the implications of your proposed course of action are, but I don't know whether (or not) I think any of them is just given the situation and events. If all you really wanted was to share your view and be done, I understand. I'm not by any means begging for a debate on it, but I'm willing to engage if that's what you also sought. (As I said, I know little about courts martial, and it's as possible as not that I agree with your proposal, in which case there won't be much debate at all. LOL)

 

[ABikerSailor]

The chances of Bergdahl being pardoned by Obama are zero. He's not going to interfere with the military's decision.

Me personally? I say give him a BCD or DHD, consider his time in captivity as time served and get him sent home with no benefits.

I'm not all that informed on military jurisprudence, so I must ask.

• Wouldn't giving Mr. Bergdahl either of those two types of discharge call for him being given a fair trial, hearing, or something?
• Can the things you suggest be summarily issued at the discretion of some panel or individual?

Actually, the only way to get a BCD or DHD is at a courts martial (which he's already being given).

No, they can't be summarily issued by a panel or individual. There has to be a trial, and depending on the type of courts martial he decides to get, there will either be 1 judge hearing the case and deciding, or he will get a panel of 3 officers who will make the decision. Unlike civilian juries, the judges on a courts martial panel don't have to be unanimous, just have a majority decision. If 2 of the 3 officers found him guilty, it's considered to be a guilty verdict. [Don't confuse] the courts martial process confused with how a civilian court operates, because they are much different.

TY for the reply.

Yes, I don't know much about how they work, but I knew that they "work" very differently from civilian courts. That's precisely why I had to ask the question to which you replied. Again, TY for answering it.

FWIW, if you are interested, I'm willing to do so research and figure out what I think about your proposed course of action, but right now, I don't have the first idea what I will think of it. I know what the implications of your proposed course of action are, but I don't know whether (or not) I think any of them is just given the situation and events. If all you really wanted was to share your view and be done, I understand. I'm not by any means begging for a debate on it, but I'm willing to engage if that's what you also sought. (As I said, I know little about courts martial, and it's as possible as not that I agree with your proposal, in which case there won't be much debate at all. LOL)

If you want to research it, then Google "UCMJ" and "Courts Martial Procedures", and you can get just about all the information you need.

At what is called (in the Navy at least) Captian's Mast, it is where the Commanding Officer hears the case, listens to the information presented by the defendant and the command, and makes his decision all by himself. At Captians Mast, the maximum sentence that a person can receive is 45 days extra duty, 45 days restriction, or, 60 days restriction, no extra duty, 1/2 month's pay for 2 months, and Reduction in Rate (RIR), also known as being busted down a rank.

Discharges can be recommended as well, but those still have to run up the chain of command all the way to Bureau of Naval Personnel (BUPERS).

At a general or summary courts martial (one has one judge, the other has a panel of 3 officers to hear and decide the case), jail time, as well as BCD and DHD discharges can be sentenced. Considering the type of case it is, and considering the crime committed, the courts martial route is how the military would proceed. So, yeah, they could discharge him, as well as order jail time. Me? I think that being a Taliban captive for 5 years should be considered time served. Let him have his courts martial, and discharge him after that.

 

[320 Years of History]

The chances of Bergdahl being pardoned by Obama are zero. He's not going to interfere with the military's decision.

Me personally? I say give him a BCD or DHD, consider his time in captivity as time served and get him sent home with no benefits.

I'm not all that informed on military jurisprudence, so I must ask.

• Wouldn't giving Mr. Bergdahl either of those two types of discharge call for him being given a fair trial, hearing, or something?
• Can the things you suggest be summarily issued at the discretion of some panel or individual?

Actually, the only way to get a BCD or DHD is at a courts martial (which he's already being given).

No, they can't be summarily issued by a panel or individual. There has to be a trial, and depending on the type of courts martial he decides to get, there will either be 1 judge hearing the case and deciding, or he will get a panel of 3 officers who will make the decision. Unlike civilian juries, the judges on a courts martial panel don't have to be unanimous, just have a majority decision. If 2 of the 3 officers found him guilty, it's considered to be a guilty verdict. [Don't confuse] the courts martial process confused with how a civilian court operates, because they are much different.

TY for the reply.

Yes, I don't know much about how they work, but I knew that they "work" very differently from civilian courts. That's precisely why I had to ask the question to which you replied. Again, TY for answering it.

FWIW, if you are interested, I'm willing to do so research and figure out what I think about your proposed course of action, but right now, I don't have the first idea what I will think of it. I know what the implications of your proposed course of action are, but I don't know whether (or not) I think any of them is just given the situation and events. If all you really wanted was to share your view and be done, I understand. I'm not by any means begging for a debate on it, but I'm willing to engage if that's what you also sought. (As I said, I know little about courts martial, and it's as possible as not that I agree with your proposal, in which case there won't be much debate at all. LOL)

If you want to research it, then Google "UCMJ" and "Courts Martial Procedures", and you can get just about all the information you need.

At what is called (in the Navy at least) Captian's Mast, it is where the Commanding Officer hears the case, listens to the information presented by the defendant and the command, and makes his decision all by himself. At Captians Mast, the maximum sentence that a person can receive is 45 days extra duty, 45 days restriction, or, 60 days restriction, no extra duty, 1/2 month's pay for 2 months, and Reduction in Rate (RIR), also known as being busted down a rank.

Discharges can be recommended as well, but those still have to run up the chain of command all the way to Bureau of Naval Personnel (BUPERS).

At a general or summary courts martial (one has one judge, the other has a panel of 3 officers to hear and decide the case), jail time, as well as BCD and DHD discharges can be sentenced. Considering the type of case it is, and considering the crime committed, the courts martial route is how the military would proceed. So, yeah, they could discharge him, as well as order jail time. Me? I think that being a Taliban captive for 5 years should be considered time served. Let him have his courts martial, and discharge him after that.

LOL Yes. five years held by the Taliban does strike me as being at least an equivalent to doing time in U.S. prison (military or otherwise). I suspect that more likely it was worse, but I don't know that for sure.

I'll begin reading where you suggested. At the very least, I'll learn something new...that's never a bad thing, even if I don't like what I learn. <winks>

 

[ABikerSailor]

The chances of Bergdahl being pardoned by Obama are zero. He's not going to interfere with the military's decision.

Me personally? I say give him a BCD or DHD, consider his time in captivity as time served and get him sent home with no benefits.

I'm not all that informed on military jurisprudence, so I must ask.

• Wouldn't giving Mr. Bergdahl either of those two types of discharge call for him being given a fair trial, hearing, or something?
• Can the things you suggest be summarily issued at the discretion of some panel or individual?

Actually, the only way to get a BCD or DHD is at a courts martial (which he's already being given).

No, they can't be summarily issued by a panel or individual. There has to be a trial, and depending on the type of courts martial he decides to get, there will either be 1 judge hearing the case and deciding, or he will get a panel of 3 officers who will make the decision. Unlike civilian juries, the judges on a courts martial panel don't have to be unanimous, just have a majority decision. If 2 of the 3 officers found him guilty, it's considered to be a guilty verdict. [Don't confuse] the courts martial process confused with how a civilian court operates, because they are much different.

TY for the reply.

Yes, I don't know much about how they work, but I knew that they "work" very differently from civilian courts. That's precisely why I had to ask the question to which you replied. Again, TY for answering it.

FWIW, if you are interested, I'm willing to do so research and figure out what I think about your proposed course of action, but right now, I don't have the first idea what I will think of it. I know what the implications of your proposed course of action are, but I don't know whether (or not) I think any of them is just given the situation and events. If all you really wanted was to share your view and be done, I understand. I'm not by any means begging for a debate on it, but I'm willing to engage if that's what you also sought. (As I said, I know little about courts martial, and it's as possible as not that I agree with your proposal, in which case there won't be much debate at all. LOL)

If you want to research it, then Google "UCMJ" and "Courts Martial Procedures", and you can get just about all the information you need.

At what is called (in the Navy at least) Captian's Mast, it is where the Commanding Officer hears the case, listens to the information presented by the defendant and the command, and makes his decision all by himself. At Captians Mast, the maximum sentence that a person can receive is 45 days extra duty, 45 days restriction, or, 60 days restriction, no extra duty, 1/2 month's pay for 2 months, and Reduction in Rate (RIR), also known as being busted down a rank.

Discharges can be recommended as well, but those still have to run up the chain of command all the way to Bureau of Naval Personnel (BUPERS).

At a general or summary courts martial (one has one judge, the other has a panel of 3 officers to hear and decide the case), jail time, as well as BCD and DHD discharges can be sentenced. Considering the type of case it is, and considering the crime committed, the courts martial route is how the military would proceed. So, yeah, they could discharge him, as well as order jail time. Me? I think that being a Taliban captive for 5 years should be considered time served. Let him have his courts martial, and discharge him after that.

LOL Yes. five years held by the Taliban does strike me as being at least an equivalent to doing time in U.S. prison (military or otherwise). I suspect that more likely it was worse, but I don't know that for sure.

I'll begin reading where you suggested. At the very least, I'll learn something new...that's never a bad thing, even if I don't like what I learn. <winks>

Hey, at least in a military prison you can get a shower, are fed 3 times a day and are given an actual bed to sleep in, as well as certain military drills to keep you busy. None of that exists when you're a POW. Maybe he was fed once a day, and might have gotten a shower once every couple of weeks.

BTW............speaking of learning new things that you might not like, did you know that you can be tried twice for the same crime in the military? The concept of double jeopardy doesn't apply for military like it does for civilians, because after the civilian court gets finished with you for doing a crime in the civilian community, it is then the military gets to have at you for the same crime. Saw it happen a couple of times over my 20 years in the Navy.

 

[320 Years of History]

Hey, at least in a military prison you can get a shower, are fed 3 times a day and are given an actual bed to sleep in, as well as certain military drills to keep you busy. None of that exists when you're a POW. Maybe he was fed once a day, and might have gotten a shower once every couple of weeks.

BTW............speaking of learning new things that you might not like, did you know that you can be tried twice for the same crime in the military? The concept of double jeopardy doesn't apply for military like it does for civilians, because after the civilian court gets finished with you for doing a crime in the civilian community, it is then the military gets to have at you for the same crime. Saw it happen a couple of times over my 20 years in the Navy.

Prior to joining the military, is one informed of that? If so, I certainly don't have an issue with it happening. That's about how I am about most (if not all) deliberate/willful choices adults make. If before making the choice one has either (1) oneself bothered to determine what are the consequences and implications of making them, or (2) had the consequences and implications identified prior to being asked to make the decision, whatever consequences and implications materialize are what they are. At that point, I am a "you made your bed; now you lie in it" person.

In all cases, however, I tend to form my opinions by applying general principles, theories, and concepts to specific situations and whatever extenuating circumstances pertain to the specific event(s)/person in question. As I read up on military jurisprudence, I'll initially be looking for input on, among other things:

• Were there one or more orders Mr. Bergdahl (BB) could have and was rightly expected to follow with regard to remaining in the (rough) location from which he absconded?
• Were there extenuating circumstances that militated for him to have withdrawn from that location?
• What was the nature and extent of discretion BB was within his authority to exercise in the situation he found himself in?
• What exactly were the circumstances?
• Are the principles in play that hold larger implications that, if by absolving or convicting BB, would set an unsuitable precedent? Untenable as goes military order? Untenable as goes American values? Untenable with regard to something else larger and more important than either BB or the military?

As I said, I don't now know what I think or will find regarding any of those questions. I don't even know if those will be the only questions I find myself asking. They are only the ones I can predict now as questions for which I'll seek information that will guide how and what I decide is my answer to them.

 

[longknife]

Hey, at least in a military prison you can get a shower, are fed 3 times a day and are given an actual bed to sleep in, as well as certain military drills to keep you busy. None of that exists when you're a POW. Maybe he was fed once a day, and might have gotten a shower once every couple of weeks.

BTW............speaking of learning new things that you might not like, did you know that you can be tried twice for the same crime in the military? The concept of double jeopardy doesn't apply for military like it does for civilians, because after the civilian court gets finished with you for doing a crime in the civilian community, it is then the military gets to have at you for the same crime. Saw it happen a couple of times over my 20 years in the Navy.

Prior to joining the military, is one informed of that? If so, I certainly don't have an issue with it happening. That's about how I am about most (if not all) deliberate/willful choices adults make. If before making the choice one has either (1) oneself bothered to determine what are the consequences and implications of making them, or (2) had the consequences and implications identified prior to being asked to make the decision, whatever consequences and implications materialize are what they are. At that point, I am a "you made your bed; now you lie in it" person.

In all cases, however, I tend to form my opinions by applying general principles, theories, and concepts to specific situations and whatever extenuating circumstances pertain to the specific event(s)/person in question. As I read up on military jurisprudence, I'll initially be looking for input on, among other things:

• Were there one or more orders Mr. Bergdahl (BB) could have and was rightly expected to follow with regard to remaining in the (rough) location from which he absconded?
• Were there extenuating circumstances that militated for him to have withdrawn from that location?
• What was the nature and extent of discretion BB was within his authority to exercise in the situation he found himself in?
• What exactly were the circumstances?
• Are the principles in play that hold larger implications that, if by absolving or convicting BB, would set an unsuitable precedent? Untenable as goes military order? Untenable as goes American values? Untenable with regard to something else larger and more important than either BB or the military?

As I said, I don't now know what I think or will find regarding any of those questions. I don't even know if those will be the only questions I find myself asking. They are only the ones I can predict now as questions for which I'll seek information that will guide how and what I decide is my answer to them.

Most recruiters inform prospective enlistees of the difference between military and civilian justice.

Then, during the very first week of indoctrination - before basic training - recruits are given several classes on the UCMJ and what it means.

And, during Basic/Boot, classes are also conducted on the same.

 

[ABikerSailor]

Hey, at least in a military prison you can get a shower, are fed 3 times a day and are given an actual bed to sleep in, as well as certain military drills to keep you busy. None of that exists when you're a POW. Maybe he was fed once a day, and might have gotten a shower once every couple of weeks.

BTW............speaking of learning new things that you might not like, did you know that you can be tried twice for the same crime in the military? The concept of double jeopardy doesn't apply for military like it does for civilians, because after the civilian court gets finished with you for doing a crime in the civilian community, it is then the military gets to have at you for the same crime. Saw it happen a couple of times over my 20 years in the Navy.

Prior to joining the military, is one informed of that? If so, I certainly don't have an issue with it happening. That's about how I am about most (if not all) deliberate/willful choices adults make. If before making the choice one has either (1) oneself bothered to determine what are the consequences and implications of making them, or (2) had the consequences and implications identified prior to being asked to make the decision, whatever consequences and implications materialize are what they are. At that point, I am a "you made your bed; now you lie in it" person.

In all cases, however, I tend to form my opinions by applying general principles, theories, and concepts to specific situations and whatever extenuating circumstances pertain to the specific event(s)/person in question. As I read up on military jurisprudence, I'll initially be looking for input on, among other things:

• Were there one or more orders Mr. Bergdahl (BB) could have and was rightly expected to follow with regard to remaining in the (rough) location from which he absconded?
• Were there extenuating circumstances that militated for him to have withdrawn from that location?
• What was the nature and extent of discretion BB was within his authority to exercise in the situation he found himself in?
• What exactly were the circumstances?
• Are the principles in play that hold larger implications that, if by absolving or convicting BB, would set an unsuitable precedent? Untenable as goes military order? Untenable as goes American values? Untenable with regard to something else larger and more important than either BB or the military?

As I said, I don't now know what I think or will find regarding any of those questions. I don't even know if those will be the only questions I find myself asking. They are only the ones I can predict now as questions for which I'll seek information that will guide how and what I decide is my answer to them.

Most recruiters inform prospective enlistees of the difference between military and civilian justice.

Then, during the very first week of indoctrination - before basic training - recruits are given several classes on the UCMJ and what it means.

And, during Basic/Boot, classes are also conducted on the same.

Yeah...........I remember at intake being told that I'd just given up about 75 percent of the rights that I had as a civilian, because I now belonged to the US Government and the Navy. Even so, I still think that my career in the Navy was the best decision I ever made. There's a bit of security knowing that you have a steady check for the rest of your life as well as healthcare. Because of that, I managed to come through the recession a bit better off than some others.

 

[Hossfly]

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