Poll: What should we do with guns?

[tjvh]

Banning guns, would severely curtail the number of gun crimes, in time ,and it would have prevented what happened at Sandy Hook.

That being said, I dont think banning guns or banning types of guns, is the answer.

Try making a point rationally. You obviously missed the skyrocketing gun violence in Great Britain after they did just that. Nope... Gun Laws only punish Law abiding citizens, end of story.

 

[Pogo]

Plowshares and pruning hooks!

As long as it doesn't mean I have to eat prunes.

 

[AmyNation]

Banning guns, would severely curtail the number of gun crimes, in time ,and it would have prevented what happened at Sandy Hook.

That being said, I dont think banning guns or banning types of guns, is the answer.

The simple fact that as more guns are purchased, major crimes decline, kind of contradicts your hypothesis.

No, it doesn't, note i said "gun crime" not crime.

The majority of criminals buy their guns from legitimate dealers, who either get duped into selling to them, or who sell knowing its illegal.

No dealers= less guns

It would take time, but in 20 years, gun crime would be way down. Again, crime involving a gun.

 

[AmyNation]

You all do realize that a sick demented mind will just find another way to commit there insane acts don't you? Just for the hell of it I did a web search on how to build a bomb and got 499,000,000 results now if I could find that much on building a bomb don't you think people could use the web to get the gun or guns they wanted? Something to think about.

Very true.

I saw a special not long ago about a machine that builds you anything you program into it out of a type of paper particles, and they theorized it could build a working gun.

 

[Pogo]

You all do realize that a sick demented mind will just find another way to commit there insane acts don't you? Just for the hell of it I did a web search on how to build a bomb and got 499,000,000 results now if I could find that much on building a bomb don't you think people could use the web to get the gun or guns they wanted? Something to think about.

The fallacy here, as with the bad analogies of knives and baseball bats and even cars, is that it presumes the premeditated goal is murder and that that leads to the gun as a tool to do it.
In reality, it's the other way around.

 

[OKTexas]

Banning guns, would severely curtail the number of gun crimes, in time ,and it would have prevented what happened at Sandy Hook.

That being said, I dont think banning guns or banning types of guns, is the answer.

The simple fact that as more guns are purchased, major crimes decline, kind of contradicts your hypothesis.

No, it doesn't, note i said "gun crime" not crime.

The majority of criminals buy their guns from legitimate dealers, who either get duped into selling to them, or who sell knowing its illegal.

No dealers= less guns

It would take time, but in 20 years, gun crime would be way down. Again, crime involving a gun.

It's obvious you've not purchased a gun and jumped through the hoops required by federal law. If I buy a gun from a dealer and inadvertently make a mistake on the paperwork and they don't catch the mistake is can cost them their license. They check and double check everything. Most criminals get guns through private sales or steal them, and they will be doing the same in 20 years.

 

[AmyNation]

The simple fact that as more guns are purchased, major crimes decline, kind of contradicts your hypothesis.

No, it doesn't, note i said "gun crime" not crime.

The majority of criminals buy their guns from legitimate dealers, who either get duped into selling to them, or who sell knowing its illegal.

No dealers= less guns

It would take time, but in 20 years, gun crime would be way down. Again, crime involving a gun.

It's obvious you've not purchased a gun and jumped through the hoops required by federal law. If I buy a gun from a dealer and inadvertently make a mistake on the paperwork and they don't catch the mistake is can cost them their license. They check and double check everything. Most criminals get guns through private sales or steal them, and they will be doing the same in 20 years.

No, i have not. However my husband owns one, and my sister has her own little arsenal. That doesnt change the fact that the majority of illegal guns are purchased from dealers.

frontline: hot guns: "How Criminals Get Guns" | PBS

"In fact, there are a number of sources that allow guns to fall into the wrong hands, with gun thefts at the bottom of the list. Wachtel says one of the most common ways criminals get guns is through straw purchase sales. A straw purchase occurs when someone who may not legally acquire a firearm, or who wants to do so anonymously, has a companion buy it on their behalf. According to a 1994 ATF study on "Sources of Crime Guns in Southern California," many straw purchases are conducted in an openly "suggestive" manner where two people walk into a gun store, one selects a firearm, and then the other uses identification for the purchase and pays for the gun. Or, several underage people walk into a store and an adult with them makes the purchases. Both of these are illegal activities.

The next biggest source of illegal gun transactions where criminals get guns are sales made by legally licensed but corrupt at-home and commercial gun dealers. Several recent reports back up Wachtel's own studies about this, and make the case that illegal activity by those licensed to sell guns, known as Federal Firearms Licensees (FFLs), is a huge source of crime guns and greatly surpasses the sale of guns stolen from John Q. Citizen. Like bank robbers, who are interested in banks, gun traffickers are interested in FFLs because that's where the guns are. This is why FFLs are a large source of illegal guns for traffickers, who ultimately wind up selling the guns on the street."

 

[OKTexas]

No, it doesn't, note i said "gun crime" not crime.

The majority of criminals buy their guns from legitimate dealers, who either get duped into selling to them, or who sell knowing its illegal.

No dealers= less guns

It would take time, but in 20 years, gun crime would be way down. Again, crime involving a gun.

It's obvious you've not purchased a gun and jumped through the hoops required by federal law. If I buy a gun from a dealer and inadvertently make a mistake on the paperwork and they don't catch the mistake is can cost them their license. They check and double check everything. Most criminals get guns through private sales or steal them, and they will be doing the same in 20 years.

No, i have not. However my husband owns one, and my sister has her own little arsenal. That doesnt change the fact that the majority of illegal guns are purchased from dealers.

frontline: hot guns: "How Criminals Get Guns" | PBS

"In fact, there are a number of sources that allow guns to fall into the wrong hands, with gun thefts at the bottom of the list. Wachtel says one of the most common ways criminals get guns is through straw purchase sales. A straw purchase occurs when someone who may not legally acquire a firearm, or who wants to do so anonymously, has a companion buy it on their behalf. According to a 1994 ATF study on "Sources of Crime Guns in Southern California," many straw purchases are conducted in an openly "suggestive" manner where two people walk into a gun store, one selects a firearm, and then the other uses identification for the purchase and pays for the gun. Or, several underage people walk into a store and an adult with them makes the purchases. Both of these are illegal activities.

The next biggest source of illegal gun transactions where criminals get guns are sales made by legally licensed but corrupt at-home and commercial gun dealers. Several recent reports back up Wachtel's own studies about this, and make the case that illegal activity by those licensed to sell guns, known as Federal Firearms Licensees (FFLs), is a huge source of crime guns and greatly surpasses the sale of guns stolen from John Q. Citizen. Like bank robbers, who are interested in banks, gun traffickers are interested in FFLs because that's where the guns are. This is why FFLs are a large source of illegal guns for traffickers, who ultimately wind up selling the guns on the street."

Did ya hear Maobamas hero Chaves is opening a factory or two to produce AK's, first one to be built out side of Russia, where do you think the bad guys will get their weapons if they shut down legal dealers, criminals will smuggle them and the law abiding will be naked, do you really want that? If Sandy Hook proved anything it's the cops are only the clean up team.

 

[9thIDdoc]

Banning guns, would severely curtail the number of gun crimes, in time ,and it would have prevented what happened at Sandy Hook.

That being said, I dont think banning guns or banning types of guns, is the answer.

The simple fact that as more guns are purchased, major crimes decline, kind of contradicts your hypothesis.

No, it doesn't, note i said "gun crime" not crime.

The majority of criminals buy their guns from legitimate dealers, who either get duped into selling to them, or who sell knowing its illegal.

No dealers= less guns

It would take time, but in 20 years, gun crime would be way down. Again, crime involving a gun.

...and it would have prevented what happened at Sandy Hook.

Guns were banned at Sandy Hook and it didn't prevent anything. Just more evidence that gun control laws don't prevent crime and may even encourage it. There are far too many firearms already here, and they are far too durable, for a ban to reduce access seriously without removing the ones people already own which would:
1. Be impossible
2. Start a bloodbath

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Banning guns, would severely curtail the number of gun crimes, in time ,and it would have prevented what happened at Sandy Hook.

That being said, I dont think banning guns or banning types of guns, is the answer.

The simple fact that as more guns are purchased, major crimes decline, kind of contradicts your hypothesis.

No, it doesn't, note i said "gun crime" not crime.

The majority of criminals buy their guns from legitimate dealers, who either get duped into selling to them, or who sell knowing its illegal.

No dealers= less guns

It would take time, but in 20 years, gun crime would be way down. Again, crime involving a gun.

Do you have anything to back that up, or are we just supposed to believe it because Vela is always right?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

You all do realize that a sick demented mind will just find another way to commit there insane acts don't you? Just for the hell of it I did a web search on how to build a bomb and got 499,000,000 results now if I could find that much on building a bomb don't you think people could use the web to get the gun or guns they wanted? Something to think about.

The fallacy here, as with the bad analogies of knives and baseball bats and even cars, is that it presumes the premeditated goal is murder and that that leads to the gun as a tool to do it.
In reality, it's the other way around.

Guns cause people to commit murders, so, if we get rid of guns, there will be no murders?

Is that seriously what you want us to believe?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

No, it doesn't, note i said "gun crime" not crime.

The majority of criminals buy their guns from legitimate dealers, who either get duped into selling to them, or who sell knowing its illegal.

No dealers= less guns

It would take time, but in 20 years, gun crime would be way down. Again, crime involving a gun.

It's obvious you've not purchased a gun and jumped through the hoops required by federal law. If I buy a gun from a dealer and inadvertently make a mistake on the paperwork and they don't catch the mistake is can cost them their license. They check and double check everything. Most criminals get guns through private sales or steal them, and they will be doing the same in 20 years.

No, i have not. However my husband owns one, and my sister has her own little arsenal. That doesnt change the fact that the majority of illegal guns are purchased from dealers.

frontline: hot guns: "How Criminals Get Guns" | PBS

"In fact, there are a number of sources that allow guns to fall into the wrong hands, with gun thefts at the bottom of the list. Wachtel says one of the most common ways criminals get guns is through straw purchase sales. A straw purchase occurs when someone who may not legally acquire a firearm, or who wants to do so anonymously, has a companion buy it on their behalf. According to a 1994 ATF study on "Sources of Crime Guns in Southern California," many straw purchases are conducted in an openly "suggestive" manner where two people walk into a gun store, one selects a firearm, and then the other uses identification for the purchase and pays for the gun. Or, several underage people walk into a store and an adult with them makes the purchases. Both of these are illegal activities.

The next biggest source of illegal gun transactions where criminals get guns are sales made by legally licensed but corrupt at-home and commercial gun dealers. Several recent reports back up Wachtel's own studies about this, and make the case that illegal activity by those licensed to sell guns, known as Federal Firearms Licensees (FFLs), is a huge source of crime guns and greatly surpasses the sale of guns stolen from John Q. Citizen. Like bank robbers, who are interested in banks, gun traffickers are interested in FFLs because that's where the guns are. This is why FFLs are a large source of illegal guns for traffickers, who ultimately wind up selling the guns on the street."

Your own link proves you wrong.

ATF officials say that only about 8% of the nation's 124,000 retail gun dealers sell the majority of handguns that are used in crimes. They conclude that these licensed retailers are part of a block of rogue entrepreneurs tempted by the big profits of gun trafficking.

 

[BallsBrunswick]

Leave gun laws alone. At most perhaps put in screening for potential disturbed family members of gun owners but even that is going pretty far.

Also, this country's mental help programs and regulation needs significant improvement. However, everyone's going to fuck off and not do anything tangible or helpful once they get their partisan bullshit out of the way and get bored.

 

[sfcalifornia]

Banning guns, would severely curtail the number of gun crimes, in time ,and it would have prevented what happened at Sandy Hook.

That being said, I dont think banning guns or banning types of guns, is the answer.

The simple fact that as more guns are purchased, major crimes decline, kind of contradicts your hypothesis.

Nope.


1. America is an unusually violent country. But we’re not as violent as we used to be.
3. Gun ownership in the United States is declining overall.
Six facts about guns, violence, and gun control


Crime is down -- and so is gun ownership - Los Angeles Times

Chart of the Day: Gun Ownership is on a 30-Year Decline | Mother Jones


However, within its own borders, the U.S. gun owning population is on the decline and those gun owners are stockpiling more firearms.
The Violence Policy Center's analysis of the General Social Survey data also found that part of the reason the gun owning population is declining is because those weapons are largely owned by white males, a group whose population is aging.
Analysis: Fewer U.S. gun owners own more guns - CNN.com

First, we are a less violent nation now than we’ve been in over forty years. In 2010, violent crime rates hit a low not seen since 1972;
Second, for all the attention given to America’s culture of guns, ownership of firearms is at or near all-time lows.
The Declining Culture of Guns and Violence in the United States ? The Monkey Cage

Gun ownership on the decline - but just as many guns as ever - Lean Forward

 

[9thIDdoc]

Banning guns, would severely curtail the number of gun crimes, in time ,and it would have prevented what happened at Sandy Hook.

That being said, I dont think banning guns or banning types of guns, is the answer.

The simple fact that as more guns are purchased, major crimes decline, kind of contradicts your hypothesis.

Nope.


1. America is an unusually violent country. But we’re not as violent as we used to be.
3. Gun ownership in the United States is declining overall.
Six facts about guns, violence, and gun control


Crime is down -- and so is gun ownership - Los Angeles Times

Chart of the Day: Gun Ownership is on a 30-Year Decline | Mother Jones


However, within its own borders, the U.S. gun owning population is on the decline and those gun owners are stockpiling more firearms.
The Violence Policy Center's analysis of the General Social Survey data also found that part of the reason the gun owning population is declining is because those weapons are largely owned by white males, a group whose population is aging.
Analysis: Fewer U.S. gun owners own more guns - CNN.com

First, we are a less violent nation now than we’ve been in over forty years. In 2010, violent crime rates hit a low not seen since 1972;
Second, for all the attention given to America’s culture of guns, ownership of firearms is at or near all-time lows.
The Declining Culture of Guns and Violence in the United States ? The Monkey Cage

Gun ownership on the decline - but just as many guns as ever - Lean Forward

If you are going to discuss numbers, chages in population were considerable between 1970 and 2010 and must be part of determining the actual numbers. Percentages don't mean much unless you know what it's a precentage of.

 

[Lumpy 1]

I can see how many a liberal Democrats would rather submit one of their and everyone elses top expressions of individual freedom, gun ownership, to their all giving God.. The State.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

regulate all public firearms - lever / bolt action, 6 round maximum, chamber fed.

OK...Limit people protecting the prez to those weapons as well.

Fair is fair.

True is true.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Banning guns, would severely curtail the number of gun crimes, in time ,and it would have prevented what happened at Sandy Hook.

That being said, I dont think banning guns or banning types of guns, is the answer.

School shootings during Clintons gun ban

1993–1994 (42 Homicides and 51 Deaths resulting from school shootings in the U.S.)
1994–1995 (17 Homicides and 20 Deaths resulting from school shootings in the U.S.)
1995–1996 (29 Homicides and 35 Deaths resulting from school shootings in the U.S.)
1996–1997 (23 Homicides and 25 Deaths resulting from school shootings in the U.S.)
1997–1998 (35 Homicides and 40 Deaths resulting from school shootings in the U.S.)
1998–1999 (25 Homicides from school shootings in the U.S.)
1999–2000 (25 Homicides from school shootings in the U.S.)
According to the U.S. Department of Education, in the 1998-1999 School Year, 3,523 students (57% High School, 33% Junior High, 10% Elementary) were expelled for bringing a firearm to school.[40]
The late 1990s started to see a major reduction in gun related school violence, but was still plagued with multiple victim shootings including;
January 12, 1995: Seattle Washington A student left school during the day and returned with his grandfather's 9mm. He wounded two students. The incident is portrayed in the documentary Cease Fire.
October 12, 1995: Blackville, South Carolina A suspended student shot two math teachers with a .32 caliber revolver.
November 15, 1995: Lynnville, Tennessee A 17-year-old boy shot and killed a student and teacher with a .22 rifle.
February 2, 1996: Moses Lake, Washington Two students and one teacher killed, one other wounded when 14-year-old Barry Loukaitis opened fire on his algebra class.[41]
February 19, 1997: Bethel, Alaska Principal and one student killed, two others wounded by Evan Ramsey, 16.[41]
October 1, 1997: Pearl, Mississippi Two students killed and seven wounded by Luke Woodham, 16, who was also accused of killing his mother. He and his friends were said to be outcasts who worshiped Satan.[41]
November 27, 1997: West Palm Beach, Florida Conniston Middle School 14-year-old John Kamel was fatally shot in the chest at 8:40 a.m. outside school on a sidewalk by 14-year-old Tronneal Mangum after an argument over an Adidas watch that Mangum had taken from Kamel.
December 1, 1997: West Paducah, Kentucky Three students killed, five wounded by Michael Carneal, 14, as they participated in a prayer circle at Heath High School.[41]
December 15, 1997: Stamps, Arkansas Two students wounded. Colt Todd, 14, was hiding in the woods when he shot the students as they stood in the parking lot[41]
March 24, 1998: Jonesboro, Arkansas Four students and one teacher killed, ten others wounded outside as Westside Middle School emptied during a false fire alarm. Mitchell Johnson, 13, and Andrew Golden, 11, shot at their classmates and teachers from the woods[41]
April 24, 1998: Edinboro, Pennsylvania One teacher, John Gillette, was killed and two students wounded at a dance at James W. Parker Middle School. Andrew Wurst, 14, was charged.[41]
May 21, 1998: Springfield, Oregon Two students killed, 22 others wounded in the cafeteria at Thurston High School by 15-year-old Kip Kinkel. Kinkel had been arrested and released a day earlier for bringing a gun to school. His parents were later found dead at home, shot to death by their son[41]
June 15, 1998: Richmond, Virginia One teacher and one guidance counselor wounded by a 14-year-old boy in the school hallway[41]
May 19, 1998: Fayetteville, Tennessee High School Senior Jacob Davis shot and killed eighteen year-old Robert "Nick" Creson in a dispute over a girl. He then lay down his rifle and waited with his head in his hands for the police to come. He was convicted of First Degree Murder and is serving life in prison.[42]
December 10, 1998: Detroit, Michigan One professor killed by a graduate student.[43]
April 20, 1999: Columbine, Colorado 14 students (including 2 shooters) and one teacher killed, 27 others wounded at Columbine High School. Eric Harris, 18, and Dylan Klebold, 17, had plotted for a year to kill at least 500 and blow up their school. At the end of their hour-long rampage, they turned their guns on themselves.[41]
May 20, 1999: Conyers, Georgia Six students injured at Heritage High School by Thomas Solomon, 15, who was reportedly depressed after breaking up with his girlfriend[41]
November 19, 1999: Deming, New Mexico One student killed at Deming Middle School by Victor Cordova Jr., 13.[44]
[edit]2000s
Main articles: Virginia Tech massacre, Red Lake massacre, Amish school shooting, and Northern Illinois University Shooting
February 29, 2000: Buell Elementary School, Flint, Michigan; 6-year-old Dedrick Owens, youngest-ever school shooter. Kayla Rolland was the single fatality.[45]
May 26, 2000: Lake Worth, Florida Lake Worth Middle School Florida teacher Barry Grunow was fatally shot by his student, 13-year-old Nathaniel Brazill, who had returned to school after being sent home at 1 p.m. by the assistant principal for throwing water balloons. Brazill returned to school on his bike with a 5 inch Raven and four bullets stolen from his grandfather the week before. Brazill was an honor student. Grunow was a popular teacher and Brazill's favorite.[45]
August 28, 2000: University of Arkansas shooting at Fayetteville, Arkansas At approximately 12:14 pm, Dr. John R. Locke, 67, Director of the Comparative Literature Program was shot and killed in his office by James E. Kelly, 36, a Comparative Literature PhD candidate who had recently been dismissed from the program for lack of progress towards his degree. Kelly shot Dr. Locke three times before taking his own life in Dr. Locke's office after it was cordoned off by campus police.[46][47][48]
September 26, 2000: Darrel Johnson, 13, offender in Louisiana school shooting with 1 student fatality.[45]
March 5, 2001: Charles Andrew William, age 15, offender in California school shooting at Santana High School, 15 wounded 2 of which died.[45]
March 30, 2001: Donald R. Burt Jr., age 18, offender in Indiana school shooting with 1 student fatality.[45]
September 24, 2003: John Jason McLaughlin, age 15, offender in Minnesota school shooting with 2 student fatalities.[45]
February 2, 2004: Unidentified offender in Washington, DC school shooting with 1 student fatality.[45]
May 7, 2004: Unidentified 17 year old offender in Maryland school shooting with 1 student fatality.[45]
School Shootings During The Clinton Gun Ban - No Holds Barred Political Forum - America's Political Chat Room
List of school shootings in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[FA_Q2]

http://www.usmessageboard.com/clean-debate-zone/268421-guns-gave-us-a-civilized-society-7.html
See the first post on that page.

Gun bans do absolutely nothing to decrease the overall homicide rate. As far as gun crimes go, that statistic is utterly meaningless. If your goal is to ensure that the murder rate goes up but just with less guns then you are crazy. The entire point of gun control laws is to stop some murders. Every argument for them hinges on this concept. The reality is that gun bans do nothing and you have absolutely zero evidence otherwise.


As far as the poll goes, there is no answer I can select. While I completely disagree with further gun controls, the option that seems to reflect this does not say anything about current law. IOW, shoulder fired SAM rockets would technically be an 'arm' and I do not really want to see those on open sale....

 

[007]

Leave the second amendment alone. We have sufficient gun laws on the books now.

Start banning these HIGH DEFINITION, hyper realistic, blood bath video games where kids can RAPE, STEAL and KILL everything in the game, INCLUDING CHILDREN AND POLICE, and get a handle on all the KILLING and culture of VIOLENT movies DRAMATIZING KILLING coming out of hollyweird. When was the last time these sick fuckers made a WHOLESOME movie that you could take the whole family to? When was the last movie that didn't have the word FUCK in it or some QUEER?

The problem is NOT gun ownership. The problem is the person WIELDING the gun and what has made them what they are. THAT is where the problem with this NEW culture of YOUNG KILLER gun violence is coming from. It's got NOTHING to do with the firearms or the laws governing them.