POLL: What should the punishment be for protesting football players?

[Fort Fun Indiana]

The Vikings chose as a team to stand.
View attachment 151325
Class and respect. I respect them a little more now.
Freedom also comes with respect for others. There is a time and place for disagreements. These guys set a REAL example.

But but but...they didn't cover their hearts! Purity test: failed. Brown skinned communists: confirmed

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

Okay, yes, another thread on this, sue me.

Let's get specific on what should not be done to players who kneel or sit or dance or sleep or do yoga during the national anthem. Please pick and explain.

My answer was "No punishment". If the team is okay with it, so am I.
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If I owned a team they would be fired. I don't own a team so it isn't my problem. If my employees pulled a stunt like this on my jobs they would be fired INSTANTLY.

NO POLITICS OR RELIGION ON THE JOB. PERIOD

 

[Darkwind]

Alienating your customers is not the best business strategy.

The problem for the owners is, whatever their public pronouncements may be, who knows what they REALLY think of all this. They have to find a way to walk the fine line between the paying fans and pissing off their players and the press.

I don't see much of a win for them here.
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No, there is an easy solution. The players have every right to, on their own time, advocate for a just and color-blind society, and the fans can enjoy a game free from the agenda of offending people to get a voice heard.

No one of any common sense is advocating that the players be punished by the NFL. They are saying, however; that they want a well-earned respect by those who fought and died for this country actually respected. That is done by honoring the flag and anthem. If you cannot respect our country and the people who sacrificed for it, you are undeserving of our respect and our hard earned money.

The fans to have a right to a voice and a protest. By boycotting the NFL, and specifically, the merchandise of those who disrespect those who fought and sacrificed for us, we can send a clear message. Leave your agenda in the locker room or on the street where it belongs.

 

[Little-Acorn]

Why bother wondering what the punishment "should" be?

It's already covered in the NFL Rules Manual. Yes, kneeling or sitting during the National Anthem at an NFL game, is already a major violation of NFL rules that have been in effect for years.

Apparently someone needs to point this out of NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell. He fined Tom Brady and suspended him for footballs not having enough air --- and Brady wasn't even the one who filled them up. But Goodell seems fine when literally hundreds of other players deliberately ignore and violate equally important NFL rules, en masse. Not a peep from him, except to say he was "Proud of or players", even when the rules call for fines or suspensions.

From pages A62-63 of the NFL game operations manual:

The National Anthem must be played prior to every NFL game, and all players must be on the sideline for the National Anthem.

During the National Anthem, players on the field and bench area should stand at attention, face the flag, hold helmets in their left hand, and refrain from talking. The home team should ensure that the American flag is in good condition.

It should be pointed out to players and coaches that we continue to be judged by the public in this area of respect for the flag and our country. Failure to be on the field by the start of the National Anthem may result in discipline, such as fines, suspensions, and/or the forfeiture of draft choice(s) for violations of the above, including first offenses.

 

[ABikerSailor]

Why bother wondering what the punishment "should" be?

It's already covered in the NFL Rules Manual. Yes, kneeling or sitting during the National Anthem at an NFL game, is already a major violation of NFL rules that have been in effect for years.

Apparently someone needs to point this out of NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell. He fined Tom Brady and suspended him for footballs not having enough air --- and Brady wasn't even the one who filled them up. But he seems fine when literally hundreds of other players deliberately ignore and violate equally important NFL rules, en masse.

From pages A62-63 of the NFL game operations manual:

The National Anthem must be played prior to every NFL game, and all players must be on the sideline for the National Anthem.
During the National Anthem, players on the field and bench area should stand at attention, face the flag, hold helmets in their left hand, and refrain from talking. The home team should ensure that the American flag is in good condition.

It should be pointed out to players and coaches that we continue to be judged by the public in this area of respect for the flag and our country. Failure to be on the field by the start of the National Anthem may result in discipline, such as fines, suspensions, and/or the forfeiture of draft choice(s) for violations of the above, including first offenses.

That "news" article has already been proven to be false. Post something from the actual NFL rulebook.

 

[Harry Dresden]

Okay, yes, another thread on this, sue me.

Let's get specific on what should not be done to players who kneel or sit or dance or sleep or do yoga during the national anthem. Please pick and explain.

My answer was "No punishment". If the team is okay with it, so am I.
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I say give them raises

yea eddie ill vote to give a guy making 15 million a year a raise......geezus ed i hope you were being a wise ass....

 

[Kondor3]

Punishment for exercising one's 1st Amendment rights? This IS America, is it not?

No employee has a right to do things that bring disrepute or controversy upon the head of his employer.

Try that $hit in most work-places and you'll be out on your a$$ faster than you can blink.

 

[Kondor3]

"You're fired!"

You have brought controversy and economic hardship upon this football club.

People come-to and watch and listen-to our games to get away from their troubles, not to listen to someone whining about the troubles of others.

People are not getting what they paid for... they don't want to have to listen-to or watch your antics on the field...

You're an entertainer... and you've stopped entertaining, in the manner agreed to, and you've begun pi$$ing off a huge percentage of our bread-and-butter clientele...

Pack up your $hit, leave your key at the club-house, get the phukk out, and don't come back... we'll send your last check... and a summons on a lawsuit for breach of contract.

Don't like that? Tough. Eat $hit and die. Get out... before we call the cops. You can piss and moan all you like, to your pu$$y Leftist media outlets... outside the gate.

 

[dblack]

I haven't watched football in years, but I think I might have to go to a game or two this year. To support the "troops".

 

[playtime]

all you yahoos are upset because some brothers aren't standing for 'our' national anthem??? did you know it was derived from an old british drinking song & not at all original?

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

First Amendment rights of free speech don't apply at a work place and on private property. Employees represent their company and if they say or do things that reflect badly on their employer, that company has the right to fire them.

Haven't seen any employers complaining yet.
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If they are fine with it, then that is telling all the fans that is how they feel. It certainly is their right to do so. The fans will return the favor by boycotting them if they feel insulted by the message being sent by team owners and the NFL.

A long, long, time ago the NFL went on strike and the season didn't start until way late. The fans were absolutely FURIOUS. (That was pre-internet) After a time, they got over it though. Same here, so long as the media doesn't keep stirring the pot.

If Trump would quit tweeting about the NFL, the furor would go down a lot quicker. He keeps stirring up his base with distractions like this, and his followers eat it up hook line and sinker.

Wonder how many people today know that N. Korea has taken what some of Trumps tweets were about them and are calling it a declaration of war?

North Korea says Trump’s tweet is a declaration of war

So that just proves that North Korea and these protesters both hate America!

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Specific? For each kneel you dig a grave for a fallen vet with a hand trough.

A fallen vet who fought and died for our right to express ourselves freely?
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They seem to believe that our military fights and dies for their right to FORCE people to stand with their hand over their heart for the Nat'l Anthem. What else do they believe having our military fight and die allows them to FORCE people to do?

You were a trash hauler. The closest you came to fighting and dying for your country was probably catching a social disease from a hooker!

 

[Montrovant]

It's more than just a social media meme. It's been reported by at least somewhat legitimate sources, such as the Time article I linked in my last post. Here's another link, from the Chicago Tribune, which says that the NFL game operations manual states that players must be on the sidelines for the anthem: No discipline for anthem-skipping teams as NFL fires back at Donald Trump
The NFL is not levying punishment for the teams that did not come out this week, though.

There's no evidence that such "operations manual" exists either. We did that too.

I'll post the link.

Yes, there is. League Governance | NFL Football Operations

The NFL Football Operations “bible” is the Game Operations Manual — nearly 200 pages of procedures and policy for regular season games alone.

Good work. First one to find it.

But it doesn't seem to say anything about standing for a national anthem. Doesn't mention "anthem" at all except in the setting "the national anthem has been played and....".. Doesn't mention "standing" either. And it's not the rule book. Matter of fact it looks like an external PR document, not an internal one.

Here's the post where I took Mudwhistle's last ball. The actual rulebook is linked there too.

The actual game operation manual is not available. It is a different document than the rulebook.

The Game Operations Manual is one of the league’s three comprehensive policy manuals for member clubs — the other two are for administrative and business operations, and media and public relations — and, by necessity, it is often military-like in its precision and astonishing in its thoroughness.

The league’s Game Operations Department uses the manual to govern the conduct of home clubs, to ensure they protect players and provide the conditions for a fair and fan-friendly contest. Clubs face warnings and other penalties for noncompliance.

I'm not sure if the GOM would be the one to find any possible rules about the anthem, or if that would be more likely to be in the media and public relations manual. However, it's certainly possible that the quotes which have been reported are real.

It does not appear to be likely that they are real. Again -- Mudwhistle brought this fake meme up this morning, and it specifies sections where this language supposedly resides in the rule book -- the same passage that the Tribune attributes to this mysterious "GOM". Yet a simple check of the rule book in those sections says absolutely nothing even close -- it's about foul penalites. So clearly someone was engaging in creative writing. It was debunked easily.

Beyond that --- how could the NFL, or any operation, run itself with TWO rule books?

The rule book we do know about -- the real one--- is very specific about what players can't do. And it makes no mention of a national anthem at all.

The game operations manual is not the same thing as the rulebook. The evidence that the GOM exists would be the NFL declaring that it does, which they did in the link I provided to you for NFL operations. Why you would question the existence of the manual is beyond me.

I'm not trying to defend Mudwhistle, but you are ignoring information. According to the Time article I posted earlier, this is what an NFL spokesperson had to say is in the game manual:

The National Anthem must be played prior to every NFL game, and all players must be on the sideline for the National Anthem.

During the National Anthem, players on the field and bench area should stand at attention, face the flag, hold helmets in their left hand, and refrain from talking. The home team should ensure that the American flag is in good condition. It should be pointed out to players and coaches that we continue to be judged by the public in this area of respect for the flag and our country. Failure to be on the field by the start of the National Anthem may result in discipline, such as fines, suspensions, and/or the forfeiture of draft choice(s) for violations of the above, including first offenses.

Here's another link, to the Kansas City Star, discussing the issue. There is a false rumor about the national anthem in the NFL rulebook According to this, the NFL's vice president of communication confirmed the existence of the GOM, and seemingly confirmed the relevant passage from the manual as well.

In an email, Brian McCarthy, the NFL’s vice president of communications, shared the portion of the manual that addresses the anthem, and that language is what has been shared on social media but mistakenly attributed to the rulebook.

McCarthy stressed that passage about the national anthem is a guideline and not a requirement. The key words in the operations manual are “should” and “may” and not “must.” No player is required to stand at attention.

That’s why the league has never issued a punishment for a player who didn’t follow the recommendation.

“There is no discipline being considered for any action yesterday,” McCarthy said Monday.


Read more here: There is a false rumor about the national anthem in the NFL rulebook

According to the NFL operations website, they use at least 4 books to run things. However, there is a difference between the rules on the field, and rules of player conduct, and rules of equipment, etc. There is no reason any company has to limit itself to one book of rules.

Nothing was debunked. The NFL rulebook is not the same thing as the Game Operations Manual, which I have now said at least 3 times, and have provided links for from the NFL itself. You can look at the operations website for the NFL and see clearly that the GOM and rulebook are in different sections and of different sizes.

For someone who has said he doesn't watch or pay attention to football, you seem very quick to make statements about the NFL as though they are undisputed fact.

 

[Montrovant]

I can't imagine either a team or the league would fire a guy over this. First, the player's union would take them to court. But probably more importantly, one hell of a lot of players wouldn't want to play for them or be drafted by them. The team would be toxic for the most part.

It's very possible that the NFL might fine or suspend, though, given enough motivation. That's obviously not there at this point, but that could change.

On what basis could they 'fine or suspend' if there's no violation of its rules or player agreements?

Who said there is no violation of rules or agreements? Even if this particular portion of the Game Operations Manual isn't real or isn't relevant, the NFL has a player code of conduct policy. That might cover sitting or kneeling during the anthem.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

Okay, yes, another thread on this, sue me.

Let's get specific on what should not be done to players who kneel or sit or dance or sleep or do yoga during the national anthem. Please pick and explain.

My answer was "No punishment". If the team is okay with it, so am I.
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"If the team is okay with it, so am I."

I disagree.

If the US Constitution is okay with it, so am I.


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[Coyote]

Okay, yes, another thread on this, sue me.

Let's get specific on what should not be done to players who kneel or sit or dance or sleep or do yoga during the national anthem. Please pick and explain.

My answer was "No punishment". If the team is okay with it, so am I.
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I had to answer mango.

 

[Montrovant]

Why bother wondering what the punishment "should" be?

It's already covered in the NFL Rules Manual. Yes, kneeling or sitting during the National Anthem at an NFL game, is already a major violation of NFL rules that have been in effect for years.

Apparently someone needs to point this out of NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell. He fined Tom Brady and suspended him for footballs not having enough air --- and Brady wasn't even the one who filled them up. But he seems fine when literally hundreds of other players deliberately ignore and violate equally important NFL rules, en masse.

From pages A62-63 of the NFL game operations manual:

The National Anthem must be played prior to every NFL game, and all players must be on the sideline for the National Anthem.
During the National Anthem, players on the field and bench area should stand at attention, face the flag, hold helmets in their left hand, and refrain from talking. The home team should ensure that the American flag is in good condition.

It should be pointed out to players and coaches that we continue to be judged by the public in this area of respect for the flag and our country. Failure to be on the field by the start of the National Anthem may result in discipline, such as fines, suspensions, and/or the forfeiture of draft choice(s) for violations of the above, including first offenses.

That "news" article has already been proven to be false. Post something from the actual NFL rulebook.

I have yet to see that "proven to be false." As I've repeatedly said, and provided evidence of, the NFL rulebook is not the same thing as the NFL Game Operations Manual. However, the wording of the passage, that players "should" stand rather than "must," means that players are not required to do so.

There is a Game Operation Manual for the NFL. It seems likely to me that the quoted section does exist in that manual. However, that section does not make standing during the anthem a requirement, only that players be on the field by the start of the anthem. Even that, apparently, is discretionary, as the teams who stayed in the locker room this weekend are not being punished.

Here's yet another link which describes the situation, including the existence of the manual and the quoted passage: A short history of the national anthem, protests and the NFL

 

[Montrovant]

Okay, yes, another thread on this, sue me.

Let's get specific on what should not be done to players who kneel or sit or dance or sleep or do yoga during the national anthem. Please pick and explain.

My answer was "No punishment". If the team is okay with it, so am I.
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I had to answer mango.

Mango pollers unite!

 

[JOSweetHeart]

Because a stand is made no matter what a person does or doesn't do, I voted for no punishment.

God bless you always!!!

Holly

P.S. However, if people choose not to watch the game/award show/TV special, etc. because of whatever their feelings are for any controversy that may be in the center, that is just how the cards happen to fall.

 

[WillowTree]

Okay, yes, another thread on this, sue me.

Let's get specific on what should not be done to players who kneel or sit or dance or sleep or do yoga during the national anthem. Please pick and explain.

My answer was "No punishment". If the team is okay with it, so am I.
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My option would be to bench them.