POLL: The GOP and "Socialism"

[Confounding]

Isn't it funny how we always seem to be involved?

No, not funny at all, pal. We fought a war in that region that was pointless, killed a lot more people than Pol Pot did, and we still whine like we were the victims.

"You have made a desert and called it peace"

Rhetorical statements are lost on you I see.

 

[Mac1958]

Yep. I would think that a reasonable person would understand that this all lies along a continuum, that you're not either "socialist" or "not socialist". But it sure does seem like there are a lot of people who can't seem to grasp that.
.

Here Mac... You replied "yes", which implies you agree.

Look at what I quoted. The word "can" is known as a "qualifier". My point was that this stuff exists on a continuum.

Do you agree with that?
.

You can have an interpretation where it doesn't exist on a continuum or one where it does. That is you can say that once country crosses certain threshold it becomes socialist, or that it is x % socialist. Both are valid ways of looking at the world. Since we are talking about definitions of words here and not any actual reality, you can define it either way. But this is so pointless, what is your actual point?

My actual point is that it appears the GOP hasn't figured out that the word doesn't scare people any more.

Outside "the base", I guess.

I thought I made that pretty clear.
.

What does this have to do with continuums?

Yeah, the GOP is abusing the word, just like dems are abusing racism. Now I still don't expect anyone who self declares themselves as a racist or socialist to win.

Great, thanks for the input.

You actually addressed the point there.
.

 

[Confounding]

It's funny that whenever socialism is brought up, social security is also brought up as a glorious example.

Yet, this program is over 20 trillions in debt, because of the Ponzi scheme financing.

And pays much less than you would get in the free market. Glorious success indeed. In fact, it's one of the worst ideas I have ever seen. This just shows that the "socialists" here have no idea what they are talking about.

How about all of the successful social programs in Scandinavia? You know, you happiest nations on Earth. Also I don't hear a lot of Republican politicians advocating for the removal of social security.

 

[Mac1958]

Our conservative posters continue to start thread after thread pertaining to "socialism". And even though their exact definitions are fairly unclear, it's obvious they think that screaming SOCIALISM is, by itself, enough to win a debate.

As most of us can see, more and more people are becoming perfectly comfortable with the word - in part, no doubt, because the Right has completely over-used and diluted it.

How long before the Right realizes the term "socialism" no longer scares people?
.

If it doesn't scare people, it should. Socialism is a race to the bottom, and third world status. There are many books written on what motivates people to work hard and/or excel in their endeavors. Socialism is not a positive factor.

What is your definition of the word, and how does you definition apply to the Democratic Party?
.

 

[EGR one]

I agree completely, but ss is socialist only to those that didn’t pay into it. We that worked, paid for it, and our payments are based on what we were forced to pay into it.

Social security is not socialism. It is our own money we are forced to pay in, rather than invest and make more for ourselves.

How many of those old white conservatives use social security? We already have socialist programs, and they do what they're supposed to. We have to stop using the word socialism. People are too dumb to get over the stigma that has been attached to it by the propaganda machine. It's a buzzword that automatically shuts down the conversation. They hear it and their brains turn off.

It's a socialist program. Socialist programs are the only thing the left is trying to see implemented.

Right, well, either way it's a successful and popular socialist program. Same goes for medicaid/medicare. There are ideas and elements of socialism that can happily coexist with our capitalism and make things better for everybody.

If that were only true. Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid are the prime drivers of our national debt, and will probably drive us into bankruptcy.

 

[forkup]

It makes it so much easier to distinguish between the two major political parties when the crazy democrat left finally quits the smoke and mirrors and comes out of the socialist political closet. Live with it and embrace it while you can lefties because the democrat party ain't likely to be around much longer at this rate.

If you think the Democrats are socialist you're fucking nuts. The Democrats would be right wing in most European countries.

Don't tell me, tell it to hyphen Cortez and Bernie Sanders and the angry crazy democrat leadership who are starting to make the European liberals look sane.

As a European liberal I can say your full of it. Bernie is slightly more to the right of the general Western European citizen. Still waiting for him to say for instance that Election Campaigns should be funded by the government. A perfectly normal and non-controversial thing here. Not only that, look at the better life index. You will find that the US is behind a lot of, so called socialist countries, as they are referred to by the right. What does that tell you?OECD Better Life Index

Bernie mentioned quite a lot that campaigns should be publicly funded. Thank you got backing up my point, though. Bernie is as far as the left goes in America and he'd still be questionable as a leftie in Europe.

I stand corrected. He is on par with most Europeans. By the way, my wife is American. We live in Belgium over America for a reason. My kid has opportunities here which would be pretty hard to accomplish if we'd decide to move to the US. Like guaranteed access to healthcare, an assured income, near free schooling etc. I've always found it odd to use socialism as a derogative term. Communism I'd get but Socialism seems relatively benign. The same goes for liberal by the way.

 

[Confounding]

I agree completely, but ss is socialist only to those that didn’t pay into it. We that worked, paid for it, and our payments are based on what we were forced to pay into it.

Social security is not socialism. It is our own money we are forced to pay in, rather than invest and make more for ourselves.

How many of those old white conservatives use social security? We already have socialist programs, and they do what they're supposed to. We have to stop using the word socialism. People are too dumb to get over the stigma that has been attached to it by the propaganda machine. It's a buzzword that automatically shuts down the conversation. They hear it and their brains turn off.

It's a socialist program. Socialist programs are the only thing the left is trying to see implemented.

Right, well, either way it's a successful and popular socialist program. Same goes for medicaid/medicare. There are ideas and elements of socialism that can happily coexist with our capitalism and make things better for everybody.

If that were only true. Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid are the prime drivers of our national debt, and will probably drive us into bankruptcy.

Actually social security only has money issues because every president borrows from it to finance government spending. In truth it's quite successful.

 

[Confounding]

It makes it so much easier to distinguish between the two major political parties when the crazy democrat left finally quits the smoke and mirrors and comes out of the socialist political closet. Live with it and embrace it while you can lefties because the democrat party ain't likely to be around much longer at this rate.

If you think the Democrats are socialist you're fucking nuts. The Democrats would be right wing in most European countries.

Don't tell me, tell it to hyphen Cortez and Bernie Sanders and the angry crazy democrat leadership who are starting to make the European liberals look sane.

As a European liberal I can say your full of it. Bernie is slightly more to the right of the general Western European citizen. Still waiting for him to say for instance that Election Campaigns should be funded by the government. A perfectly normal and non-controversial thing here. Not only that, look at the better life index. You will find that the US is behind a lot of, so called socialist countries, as they are referred to by the right. What does that tell you?OECD Better Life Index

Bernie mentioned quite a lot that campaigns should be publicly funded. Thank you got backing up my point, though. Bernie is as far as the left goes in America and he'd still be questionable as a leftie in Europe.

I stand corrected. He is on par with most Europeans. By the way, my wife is American. We live in Belgium over America for a reason. My kid has opportunities here which would be pretty hard to accomplish if we'd decide to move to the US. Like guaranteed access to healthcare, an assured income, near free schooling etc. I've always found it odd to use socialism as a derogative term. Communism I'd get but Socialism seems relatively benign. The same goes for liberal by the way.

They think communism and socialist programs are the same thing.

 

[EGR one]

Our conservative posters continue to start thread after thread pertaining to "socialism". And even though their exact definitions are fairly unclear, it's obvious they think that screaming SOCIALISM is, by itself, enough to win a debate.

As most of us can see, more and more people are becoming perfectly comfortable with the word - in part, no doubt, because the Right has completely over-used and diluted it.

How long before the Right realizes the term "socialism" no longer scares people?
.

If it doesn't scare people, it should. Socialism is a race to the bottom, and third world status. There are many books written on what motivates people to work hard and/or excel in their endeavors. Socialism is not a positive factor.

What is your definition of the word, and how does you definition apply to the Democratic Party?
.

Many books have been published on the various forms that socialism takes, and none lend themselves to a short definition on a message board. Socialism, as it applies to the current Democrat Party, can better be defined as redistribution of wealth from those who work for a living to those that do not. Free college, free healthcare, free housing, and free food. Those who work and pay taxes get the privilege of footing the bill. I call it buying votes.

 

[Camp]

It's funny that whenever socialism is brought up, social security is also brought up as a glorious example.

Yet, this program is over 20 trillions in debt, because of the Ponzi scheme financing.

And pays much less than you would get in the free market. Glorious success indeed. In fact, it's one of the worst ideas I have ever seen. This just shows that the "socialists" here have no idea what they are talking about.

Nonsense and misinformation.

Apparently the misinformation is impossible to be pointed out?

Because there is no misinformation, only facts and my opinion regarding the program, shared by all reasonables.

Nonsense because SS operates on a surplus and will continue to do so for another year. Nonsense because of your claim you can do better on your own because SS has a life insurance policy included in it as well as a disability insurance program included in it. Nonsense because of SS does not have the key elements of a Ponzi scheme.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Social security is not socialism. It is our own money we are forced to pay in, rather than invest and make more for ourselves.

How many of those old white conservatives use social security? We already have socialist programs, and they do what they're supposed to. We have to stop using the word socialism. People are too dumb to get over the stigma that has been attached to it by the propaganda machine. It's a buzzword that automatically shuts down the conversation. They hear it and their brains turn off.

Because investing can often lead to people losing everything. Social Security is supposed to be SECURE.

Is it Socialism? Well, yes. It's government control over something that could be done privately.

Same for the armed forces.

 

[forkup]

If you think the Democrats are socialist you're fucking nuts. The Democrats would be right wing in most European countries.

Don't tell me, tell it to hyphen Cortez and Bernie Sanders and the angry crazy democrat leadership who are starting to make the European liberals look sane.

As a European liberal I can say your full of it. Bernie is slightly more to the right of the general Western European citizen. Still waiting for him to say for instance that Election Campaigns should be funded by the government. A perfectly normal and non-controversial thing here. Not only that, look at the better life index. You will find that the US is behind a lot of, so called socialist countries, as they are referred to by the right. What does that tell you?OECD Better Life Index

Bernie mentioned quite a lot that campaigns should be publicly funded. Thank you got backing up my point, though. Bernie is as far as the left goes in America and he'd still be questionable as a leftie in Europe.

I stand corrected. He is on par with most Europeans. By the way, my wife is American. We live in Belgium over America for a reason. My kid has opportunities here which would be pretty hard to accomplish if we'd decide to move to the US. Like guaranteed access to healthcare, an assured income, near free schooling etc. I've always found it odd to use socialism as a derogative term. Communism I'd get but Socialism seems relatively benign. The same goes for liberal by the way.

They think communism and socialist programs are the same thing.

Seems a pretty strong indictment of the US education system in my opinion.

 

[EGR one]

I agree completely, but ss is socialist only to those that didn’t pay into it. We that worked, paid for it, and our payments are based on what we were forced to pay into it.

Social security is not socialism. It is our own money we are forced to pay in, rather than invest and make more for ourselves.

It's a socialist program. Socialist programs are the only thing the left is trying to see implemented.

Right, well, either way it's a successful and popular socialist program. Same goes for medicaid/medicare. There are ideas and elements of socialism that can happily coexist with our capitalism and make things better for everybody.

If that were only true. Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid are the prime drivers of our national debt, and will probably drive us into bankruptcy.

Actually social security only has money issues because every president borrows from it to finance government spending. In truth it's quite successful.

No president has ever borrowed from social security to finance government. Funds collected are first used to pay current benefits, and any remaining funds are automatically deposited in the general account and spent by congress. It has been that way since the program was established. The only thing that the social security fund has ever held has been IOU's from the congress.

 

[Mac1958]

Our conservative posters continue to start thread after thread pertaining to "socialism". And even though their exact definitions are fairly unclear, it's obvious they think that screaming SOCIALISM is, by itself, enough to win a debate.

As most of us can see, more and more people are becoming perfectly comfortable with the word - in part, no doubt, because the Right has completely over-used and diluted it.

How long before the Right realizes the term "socialism" no longer scares people?
.

If it doesn't scare people, it should. Socialism is a race to the bottom, and third world status. There are many books written on what motivates people to work hard and/or excel in their endeavors. Socialism is not a positive factor.

What is your definition of the word, and how does you definition apply to the Democratic Party?
.

Many books have been published on the various forms that socialism takes, and none lend themselves to a short definition on a message board. Socialism, as it applies to the current Democrat Party, can better be defined as redistribution of wealth from those who work for a living to those that do not. Free college, free healthcare, free housing, and free food. Those who work and pay taxes get the privilege of footing the bill. I call it buying votes.

Well, that's quite different from the traditional definition of socialism, which is government ownership of production and distribution, little if any private property.

Do you know that the Democrats' models are the Nordic countries, and France & Germany? Do you consider those countries "socialist" because they redistribute more than we do?
.

 

[BlackSand]

.​

Socialism ... The relentless passion to achieve mediocrity ... ​

.​

 

[forkup]

I agree completely, but ss is socialist only to those that didn’t pay into it. We that worked, paid for it, and our payments are based on what we were forced to pay into it.

Social security is not socialism. It is our own money we are forced to pay in, rather than invest and make more for ourselves.

How many of those old white conservatives use social security? We already have socialist programs, and they do what they're supposed to. We have to stop using the word socialism. People are too dumb to get over the stigma that has been attached to it by the propaganda machine. It's a buzzword that automatically shuts down the conversation. They hear it and their brains turn off.

It's a socialist program. Socialist programs are the only thing the left is trying to see implemented.

Right, well, either way it's a successful and popular socialist program. Same goes for medicaid/medicare. There are ideas and elements of socialism that can happily coexist with our capitalism and make things better for everybody.

If that were only true. Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid are the prime drivers of our national debt, and will probably drive us into bankruptcy.

I suggest you look up most single payer countries expenditure on for instance healthcare. Interestingly enough almost all those countries spend less on healthcare, most of those countries also have a higher average lifespan. So if it's so unsuccessful how do you explain that?List of countries by total health expenditure per capita - Wikipedia
List of countries by life expectancy - Wikipedia

 

[Camp]

Our conservative posters continue to start thread after thread pertaining to "socialism". And even though their exact definitions are fairly unclear, it's obvious they think that screaming SOCIALISM is, by itself, enough to win a debate.

As most of us can see, more and more people are becoming perfectly comfortable with the word - in part, no doubt, because the Right has completely over-used and diluted it.

How long before the Right realizes the term "socialism" no longer scares people?
.

If it doesn't scare people, it should. Socialism is a race to the bottom, and third world status. There are many books written on what motivates people to work hard and/or excel in their endeavors. Socialism is not a positive factor.

What is your definition of the word, and how does you definition apply to the Democratic Party?
.

Many books have been published on the various forms that socialism takes, and none lend themselves to a short definition on a message board. Socialism, as it applies to the current Democrat Party, can better be defined as redistribution of wealth from those who work for a living to those that do not. Free college, free healthcare, free housing, and free food. Those who work and pay taxes get the privilege of footing the bill. I call it buying votes.

Your definitions are grossly distorted. Beneficiaries of socialist type programs are mostly working people Redistribution of wealth does not mean all monies earned by workers go to non-workers for freebie handouts. That is only the rhetoric and propaganda of the obscenely rich.

 

[forkup]

.​

Socialism ... The relentless passion to achieve mediocrity ... ​

.​

I suggest you look up most single payer countries expenditure on for instance healthcare. Interestingly enough almost all those countries spend less on healthcare, most of those countries also have a higher average lifespan. So if it's so mediocre how do you explain that?List of countries by total health expenditure per capita - Wikipedia
List of countries by life expectancy - Wikipedia

Changed a word, makes the quote fit

 

[DustyInfinity]

When you take away the incentive for people to improve themselves, learn marketable skills, and want to work to attain things then the end is near. Socialism/Communism is against human nature, and always evolves in a Totalitarian Regime where only the few, elites benefit.

This might be the best summary of socialism I have ever read. When you get past the murder, corruption, and authoritarianism, you get the more subtle threat. I have never heard a democrat give a response to the outright destruction of a person's incentive to learn and improve themselves. Socialism is like a spiritual death that leaves you hollow. That scares the crap out of me.

 

[Confounding]

I agree completely, but ss is socialist only to those that didn’t pay into it. We that worked, paid for it, and our payments are based on what we were forced to pay into it.

It's a socialist program. Socialist programs are the only thing the left is trying to see implemented.

Right, well, either way it's a successful and popular socialist program. Same goes for medicaid/medicare. There are ideas and elements of socialism that can happily coexist with our capitalism and make things better for everybody.

If that were only true. Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid are the prime drivers of our national debt, and will probably drive us into bankruptcy.

Actually social security only has money issues because every president borrows from it to finance government spending. In truth it's quite successful.

No president has ever borrowed from social security to finance government. Funds collected are first used to pay current benefits, and any remaining funds are automatically deposited in the general account and spent by congress. It has been that way since the program was established. The only thing that the social security fund has ever held has been IOU's from the congress.

My bad. The saved money is borrowed by congress. The point is the program is entirely self sustaining and is not making our debt worse.