Poll: Do All Races Have a Right to Exist?

[bennylava]

Um, I never said I agreed with it, just that there was a cause and effect relationship.
Personally I think that we should try to
1. Prevent unwanted pregnancies
2. Help poor women who choose to keep their children by ensuring a higher standard of living and a degree of independence
3. Make the adoption process easier

My reason for supporting the right of women to have an abortion legally has nothing to do with crime. It is possible to talk about something without agreeing with it, is it not?

Overall there are average differences between groups seen as separate races, but if you had to make strick lines and genetic definitions of who is in what group, the distinctions are not so clear. Just because someone looks white/caucasian/european doesn't meant that they don't have genes from multiple other races in their DNA.

 

[AllieBaba]

Sure, you can talk about it without agreeing with it, but that's not what you're doing.

You obviously agree with it, you're justifying it. So why are you pretending you're objective when your own comments put the lie to it?

 

[CharlestonChad]

I'm actually a fan of just one race. I think the others should be exterminated by a governing body. The other races just waste the time of the only true race, and I think we can all agree that the world would be better with just one supreme race.

 

[Gunny]

Sure, you can talk about it without agreeing with it, but that's not what you're doing.

You obviously agree with it, you're justifying it. So why are you pretending you're objective when your own comments put the lie to it?

I'd say she meant you two persons could talk about an issue without agreeing with one another, not that she disagreed with what she was talking about.

 

[Taomon]

All races, yes.

Political and religious ideologies, no. In saying that, you're saying nazis have the right to practice their ideology peacefully, or groups who believe in ethnic cleansing, or child molesters.

What a wacko thing to say.

child molesters and ethnic cleansing are not religious or political ideologies. Where do you come up with this crap?

And so long as a group practices peacefully, they have that right.

I find Nazis to be appalling, but one of the catches to being in a free society is that even they have the right to express their views. Maybe you don't want to live in a free society. Maybe you want to oppress anyone who dares to think differently than you.

But I want to be free. So long as a group is peaceful and does not cause harm to another person, they are free to express their views.

 

[Gunny]

child molesters and ethnic cleansing are not religious or political ideologies. Where do you come up with this crap?

And so long as a group practices peacefully, they have that right.

I find Nazis to be appalling, but one of the catches to being in a free society is that even they have the right to express their views. Maybe you don't want to live in a free society. Maybe you want to oppress anyone who dares to think differently than you.

But I want to be free. So long as a group is peaceful and does not cause harm to another person, they are free to express their views.

Child molesting and ethnic cleansing both can be religious or societal ideologies. Ethnic cleansing was in fact part of the Nazi political ideology, and probably still is.

I agree that people should be able to practice whatever ideology they choose so long as it does not infringe on the rights of others.

 

[William Joyce]

I'm just wondering why anyone pays a mind to such a pathetic question.

So I'll mark you down as not believing in a right of the Jews to exist.

 

[eots]

Sure thing. Nothing quite like being an automaton existing with no real purpose until you stop breathing.

Your purpose is "the good of the whole"..we will assimilate you ....Resistance is.... futile

 

[jillian]

So I'll mark you down as not believing in a right of the Jews to exist.

S'matter haw haw? I ruin your little race-baiting thread? Poor baby...

 

[Dr Grump]

So I'll mark you down as not believing in a right of the Jews to exist.

No, you can put her down as "what sort of ijit would start a thread like this?"...

Do you think if you had the nads to put your real name up you'd be disbarred?

 

[William Joyce]

Do you think if you had the nads to put your real name up you'd be disbarred?

There's something wrong with taunts about anonymity coming from someone named "Dr Grump". Post your full name, address, telephone and employer name, address and telephone, and then we'll be getting somewhere. Needless to say, you won't, so we need not tarry over that one.

And, for what it's worth, my real name does appear, proximate to the issues I care about, in places accessible to anyone. What do you think of that?

Any disbarrment proceeding against someone for their political beliefs would be one hell of a fun Constitutional fight. When Matt Hale was having his troubles, Alan Dershowitz (with his own curveball handy) volunteered to go to bat for him against the Illinois bar.

My employer surely would not be pleased, and, like many employers, would probably fire me. Though I have some thoughts on fighting that one, too: there is a public policy exception to the at-will doctrine, and I think it would be good to poke at it with a lawsuit. Like my views or don't, I've got a First Amendment right to express them as against government. As a lawyer, I've even got a duty to be an advocate for unpopular causes, and mine sure as hell is unpopular. Under the civil rights laws, you cannot fire one on account of race. I would argue for expansion of that to include racial advocacy. If a black attorney were fired by his employer for writing for the NAACP journal, you can bet your ass he'd have the biggest legal guns in America lining up alongside him. Even in the event the whole thing were lost, the publicity alone would give attention to a cause that I believe to be very important: the cause of whites as a future minority in America.

But I guess the really scary thing is that you'd deny me employement for my views. I hear all the time from people on this board that they're going to kill me, rape my daughter, hope the JDL kills me, laugh while blacks drag me behind a truck, etc. Few ever seem interested in arguing on the merits with me. But this in turn is instructive. What it tells me isn't that I'm wrong. What it tells me is that I've tapped into something so fundamental that people can't even deal with it with a level head. I actually think this is somewhat of a problem, and demonstrates the difficulty of addressing these issues in a rational and humane way. That is to say, I can't really bring all this up around the water cooler, true. "So, Fred, how about those Giants?" "I don't know Bill, how about what's happening to the white race?" Yeah, I get that. I speak pretty freely about how I won't, but the funny thing is, I don't really get credit for that --- most just say, we'll, you're scared. I have to laugh. I imagine so many other posters as pretty quiet people in their own lives. If you can afford to spout at work what you say here, well, great. I can't. But again, I don't see that as the equivalent of issue illegitimacy. To the contrary.

One poster commented in private to me that I was never going to convince anyone of my views, because they all just hear "kill anyone who isn't white" and nothing else. That's sadly true. But that narrative must, must, must change. Whites are human beings. They are a unique group, at least as against other groups. We have a right to peace and progress. We can no longer hold on to the narrative that has us as the bad guys and blacks, Jews, etc. as the perpetual good guys. That HAS to change. Racial separation as a solution? Impractical, but worth at least considering, and in the meantime, we desperately need a change of thinking about race. Would anyone stop to consider the human misery among all caused by failing to acknowledge racial differences? That is, the opposite extreme of a Hitler? The writer Peter Brimelow called this "Hitler's Revenge," and it's coming down, boy.

 

[Dr Grump]

There's something wrong with taunts about anonymity coming from someone named "Dr Grump". Post your full name, address, telephone and employer name, address and telephone, and then we'll be getting somewhere. Needless to say, you won't, so we need not tarry over that one.

And, for what it's worth, my real name does appear, proximate to the issues I care about, in places accessible to anyone. What do you think of that?

Any disbarrment proceeding against someone for their political beliefs would be one hell of a fun Constitutional fight. When Matt Hale was having his troubles, Alan Dershowitz (with his own curveball handy) volunteered to go to bat for him against the Illinois bar.

My employer surely would not be pleased, and, like many employers, would probably fire me. Though I have some thoughts on fighting that one, too: there is a public policy exception to the at-will doctrine, and I think it would be good to poke at it with a lawsuit. Like my views or don't, I've got a First Amendment right to express them as against government. As a lawyer, I've even got a duty to be an advocate for unpopular causes, and mine sure as hell is unpopular. Under the civil rights laws, you cannot fire one on account of race. I would argue for expansion of that to include racial advocacy. If a black attorney were fired by his employer for writing for the NAACP journal, you can bet your ass he'd have the biggest legal guns in America lining up alongside him. Even in the event the whole thing were lost, the publicity alone would give attention to a cause that I believe to be very important: the cause of whites as a future minority in America.

But I guess the really scary thing is that you'd deny me employement for my views. I hear all the time from people on this board that they're going to kill me, rape my daughter, hope the JDL kills me, laugh while blacks drag me behind a truck, etc. Few ever seem interested in arguing on the merits with me. But this in turn is instructive. What it tells me isn't that I'm wrong. What it tells me is that I've tapped into something so fundamental that people can't even deal with it with a level head. I actually think this is somewhat of a problem, and demonstrates the difficulty of addressing these issues in a rational and humane way. That is to say, I can't really bring all this up around the water cooler, true. "So, Fred, how about those Giants?" "I don't know Bill, how about what's happening to the white race?" Yeah, I get that. I speak pretty freely about how I won't, but the funny thing is, I don't really get credit for that --- most just say, we'll, you're scared. I have to laugh. I imagine so many other posters as pretty quiet people in their own lives. If you can afford to spout at work what you say here, well, great. I can't. But again, I don't see that as the equivalent of issue illegitimacy. To the contrary.

One poster commented in private to me that I was never going to convince anyone of my views, because they all just hear "kill anyone who isn't white" and nothing else. That's sadly true. But that narrative must, must, must change. Whites are human beings. They are a unique group, at least as against other groups. We have a right to peace and progress. We can no longer hold on to the narrative that has us as the bad guys and blacks, Jews, etc. as the perpetual good guys. That HAS to change. Racial separation as a solution? Impractical, but worth at least considering, and in the meantime, we desperately need a change of thinking about race. Would anyone stop to consider the human misery among all caused by failing to acknowledge racial differences? That is, the opposite extreme of a Hitler? The writer Peter Brimelow called this "Hitler's Revenge," and it's coming down, boy.

Well, tell me your real name via PM then. I'll do the same, and we'll get into some real discussions. YOu won' though, because you are, at heart, a coward. And the great thing about cowards is they rarely get what they want.

I would never deny you your employment for your views! What I would do though, is let everybody know your point of view on subjects and let them decide whether they want to employ you. Sounds fair, no?

What is wrong with being called Dr Grump? And what is wrong with my taunts? You are nothing but a racist scumbag, whereas I am tolerant. You don't see the difference? Of course not.

You try to justify your hatred by quoting well-known and unprovable racist writings that are nothing more than inciteful and unproven. You try to equate us. Thing is, I'm not posting hateful claptrap. You are. And there lies the difference. That's like saying "My name is Bob Smith and I believe all people are created equal"...and then somebody else says "my name is Steve Jones and all *******, spics, slant eyes and wogs are arseholes, but Bob Smith and I are the same". At its most basic William Lord Haw Haw Joyce we are not. You are a racist piece of shit, I am tolerant of most religions and races even if I disagree with the religous aspects.

You hide behind the keyboard as some sort of Purist Warrior, when all you are - put simply - is a racist. I'd hope like hell your employer would sack you! Why wouldn't they? You think it is OK to hate people due to their culture or race? Welcome to Germany circa 1933. You think that is a good thing?

So Willy, what are you unpopular choices? Who have you defended lately? David Duke? The Grand Wizard of Georgia? Surely, if you truely believe in what you do you'd be more than happy to let everybody know how you feel?

Why do I need to post my name, address, occupation etc? I'm not the controversial one. In all seriousness, if I knew everybody on his board - in a one-on-one basis, I would have no problem telling them all my details. For a start, I'm self-employed. Secondly, I hold no racist views. Thirdly, I'm hardly controversial. The only reason I wouldn't be stupid enough to post my details, is for all I know you could be posting from San Quentin or Rikers......But outsida that, nobody would fire me because I'm your average, reasonable guy. You are not. You are hateful racist piece of shit who reminds me of the dude in Gladiator who is partnered with the Hardcore Dude in the first Gladiator sence who pisses himself and gets his armed chopped off because he is such a whiney, weasly wimp....and people like that hardly deserve respect.............welcome to your real world.........

 

[William Joyce]

Well, tell me your real name via PM then. I'll do the same, and we'll get into some real discussions. YOu won' though, because you are, at heart, a coward. And the great thing about cowards is they rarely get what they want.

I would never deny you your employment for your views! What I would do though, is let everybody know your point of view on subjects and let them decide whether they want to employ you. Sounds fair, no?

What is wrong with being called Dr Grump? And what is wrong with my taunts? You are nothing but a racist scumbag, whereas I am tolerant. You don't see the difference? Of course not.

You try to justify your hatred by quoting well-known and unprovable racist writings that are nothing more than inciteful and unproven. You try to equate us. Thing is, I'm not posting hateful claptrap. You are. And there lies the difference. That's like saying "My name is Bob Smith and I believe all people are created equal"...and then somebody else says "my name is Steve Jones and all *******, spics, slant eyes and wogs are arseholes, but Bob Smith and I are the same". At its most basic William Lord Haw Haw Joyce we are not. You are a racist piece of shit, I am tolerant of most religions and races even if I disagree with the religous aspects.

You hide behind the keyboard as some sort of Purist Warrior, when all you are - put simply - is a racist. I'd hope like hell your employer would sack you! Why wouldn't they? You think it is OK to hate people due to their culture or race? Welcome to Germany circa 1933. You think that is a good thing?

So Willy, what are you unpopular choices? Who have you defended lately? David Duke? The Grand Wizard of Georgia? Surely, if you truely believe in what you do you'd be more than happy to let everybody know how you feel?

Why do I need to post my name, address, occupation etc? I'm not the controversial one. In all seriousness, if I knew everybody on his board - in a one-on-one basis, I would have no problem telling them all my details. For a start, I'm self-employed. Secondly, I hold no racist views. Thirdly, I'm hardly controversial. The only reason I wouldn't be stupid enough to post my details, is for all I know you could be posting from San Quentin or Rikers......But outsida that, nobody would fire me because I'm your average, reasonable guy. You are not. You are hateful racist piece of shit who reminds me of the dude in Gladiator who is partnered with the Hardcore Dude in the first Gladiator sence who pisses himself and gets his armed chopped off because he is such a whiney, weasly wimp....and people like that hardly deserve respect.............welcome to your real world.........

I think you just proved my point better than I ever could have.

 

[Dr Grump]

I think you just proved my point better than I ever could have.

Au contraire...you have proved nothing other than you ability to weasel your way out of a considered reply. That's fine. I expected nothing less. Still awaiting your PM about who you really are and where you live. Better yet, post it on this board and I'll do the same.Carry on!

 

[jillian]

I think you just proved my point better than I ever could have.

what point is that? that you're a racist piece of garbage?

he did, but you prove it yourself every time you post.

 

[Dr Grump]

what point is that? that you're a racist piece of garbage?

he did, but you prove it yourself every time you post.

The guy's a pussy. Honestly? If I truely believed what he believed, I wouldn't hide behind a messageboard, I'd be up front and honest. That would be the right thing to do. WJ is nothing more than a racist coward. (shrug)... Imagine being his children....having a piss-weak father...

 

[William Joyce]

Well, tell me your real name via PM then. I'll do the same, and we'll get into some real discussions. YOu won' though, because you are, at heart, a coward. And the great thing about cowards is they rarely get what they want.

Uh huh. Word to the wise: in a dare over who's going to get naked first, you should never go first.

I would never deny you your employment for your views! What I would do though, is let everybody know your point of view on subjects and let them decide whether they want to employ you. Sounds fair, no?

You just contradicted yourself about as plainly if you'd said, Up is up, Up is down.

What is wrong with being called Dr Grump? And what is wrong with my taunts? You are nothing but a racist scumbag, whereas I am tolerant.

See above.

You try to justify your hatred by quoting well-known and unprovable racist writings that are nothing more than inciteful and unproven. You try to equate us. Thing is, I'm not posting hateful claptrap. You are. And there lies the difference.

What source of mine do you consider unprovable? You couldn't name one source of mine because you wouldn't/don't bother looking at them. Hey! Sounds kinda like... prejudice!

You are a racist piece of shit, I am tolerant

That settles that, then!

nobody would fire me because I'm your average, reasonable guy. You are not. You are hateful racist piece of shit

And once again! My goodness gracious. I nominate you for the Congressional Medal of Honor.

what point is that? that you're a racist piece of garbage?

Ow! Your Oxfordian debate skills are killing me!

The guy's a pussy.....having a piss-weak father...

Again, keeping it on the issues and not getting personal. Way to go!

 

[Gunny]

Interestly enough, on the slant this particular argument has taken, I agree with WJ in principle.

I NEVER see anyone argue his claims on merit. Calling someone a "racist piece of shit" and attacking the person rather than views is hardly winning an argument. It isn't even addressing the argument. It's attempting to dismiss a valid topic by hurling the "R" word.

I see the claim of tolerance, subsequently contradicted by a stream of dismissive insults.

If WJ was black/hispanic/other racial minority and advocating the exact same things for their exclusivity, I daresay he would be received in a different light and anyone attacking his views would be labelled "racist." At the very least he would be considered an overzealous advocate for a righteous cause.

I don't agree with most of WJ's views on race, but one I DO agree with is whites are definitely held to a higher, almost if not actually impossible standard.

 

[Dr Grump]

Interestly enough, on the slant this particular argument has taken, I agree with WJ in principle.

I NEVER see anyone argue his claims on merit. Calling someone a "racist piece of shit" and attacking the person rather than views is hardly winning an argument. It isn't even addressing the argument. It's attempting to dismiss a valid topic by hurling the "R" word.

I see the claim of tolerance, subsequently contradicted by a stream of dismissive insults.

If WJ was black/hispanic/other racial minority and advocating the exact same things for their exclusivity, I daresay he would be received in a different light and anyone attacking his views would be labelled "racist." At the very least he would be considered an overzealous advocate for a righteous cause.

I don't agree with most of WJ's views on race, but one I DO agree with is whites are definitely held to a higher, almost if not actually impossible standard.

Gunny, I've read too many of his posts to know that he is a racist. I have argued the point with him many times. If it looks, walks and quacks like a duck chances are it's a duck. He is right to a degree. I think whities are held to a higher standard. That doesn't make it OK to be a racist. And last time I looked 95% of Jews are white and we know WJ's POV on that subject. People like him need to be held up to ridicule for the pieces of garbage they are. You can put Al Sharpton and Louis Farrakan in the same camp too..

 

[Gunny]

Gunny, I've read too many of his posts to know that he is a racist. I have argued the point with him many times. If it looks, walks and quacks like a duck chances are it's a duck. He is right to a degree. I think whities are held to a higher standard. That doesn't make it OK to be a racist. And last time I looked 95% of Jews are white and we know WJ's POV on that subject. People like him need to be held up to ridicule for the pieces of garbage they are. You can put Al Sharpton and Louis Farrakan in the same camp too..

My argument is not whether or not he is a racist. Been reading his posts for years. My argument is that I have never seen him initiate hostility with another member on this board, and he at least does usually try to make a well-articulated argument. That would make him a polite, well-educated racist.

That, in and of itself does not negate his arguments. Facts do. That was the only point I was trying to make.