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The manageability of a classroom can certainly be profoundly affected by the nature of the cultural upbringing of the children, as it relates to such things as discipline, attitude, desire to learn, etc., etc.
I'm suggesting that 35 Japanese kids might be as easily taught in a class as 25 American kids, just because of cultural differences.
so, why hasn't this paradigm ever been as obvious?
"As obvious" as.........what?
The fact is that homogeneous cultures are much easier to manage (govern), in both a microcosim (classroom) and macrocosm (nation), than heterogeneous cultures: E.g. What language shall we speak in school? Do the Koreans, or Finns struggle to teach Vietnamese, Mexican, and Somalis in their own languages?
No.
I said in "metropolitan" areas. Perhaps I should have been more specific, i.e., inner city public schools.
Facebook's Mark Zuckerberg to give $100m to Newark's crumbling schools | Richard Adams | World news | guardian.co.uk
how does this apply to waiting for superman?
Not having seen the movie yet, I don't know if there's any reference to student:teacher ratio or not. But suffice it to say, I've seen it a LOT, where classrooms are filled to overflowing with 30 or more students and one teacher trying to teach, say, math to a bunch of adolescents more interested in goofing off with each other. I'd like to see anyone here try to do it and control the class at the same time.
, to be meaningful?
Friday we are having dinner with five teachers, I will ask them what they think of this film or idea.
Our son taught math in HS in a middle to upper middle class public school. He loved his bright students, his stupid students, which were the majority, caused a career change into respect and lots more money. It is America folks, not unions, not teachers, not all America but American culture. My wife has taught math for over twenty years. The rich do not go to these schools, ever wonder why? Has nothing to do with teachers, has lots to do with teacher pay and other perks money brings. Check out cost in private schools. And if unions disappeared this would be the same, probably worse in the poor areas.
"Here's what you see in Waiting for Superman, the new documentary that celebrates the charter school movement while blaming teachers unions for much of what ails American education: working- and middle-class parents desperate to get their charming, healthy, well-behaved children into successful public charter schools.
Here's what you don't see: the four out of five charters that are no better, on average, than traditional neighborhood public schools (and are sometimes much worse); charter school teachers, like those at the Green Dot schools in Los Angeles, who are unionized and like it that way; and noncharter neighborhood public schools, like PS 83 in East Harlem and the George Hall Elementary School in Mobile, Alabama, that are nationally recognized for successfully educating poor children." Grading 'Waiting for Superman' | The Nation
to bad they ( the nation and it sounds like those teachers) didn't see the movie , or if they did and thats all they got out of it, I wouldn't want my kids in their classroom.
The manageability of a classroom can certainly be profoundly affected by the nature of the cultural upbringing of the children, as it relates to such things as discipline, attitude, desire to learn, etc., etc.
I'm suggesting that 35 Japanese kids might be as easily taught in a class as 25 American kids, just because of cultural differences.
so, why hasn't this paradigm ever been as obvious?
"As obvious" as.........what?
The fact is that homogeneous cultures are much easier to manage (govern), in both a microcosim (classroom) and macrocosm (nation), than heterogeneous cultures: E.g. What language shall we speak in school? Do the Koreans, or Finns struggle to teach Vietnamese, Mexican, and Somalis in their own languages?
No.
how does this apply to waiting for superman?
Not having seen the movie yet, I don't know if there's any reference to student:teacher ratio or not. But suffice it to say, I've seen it a LOT, where classrooms are filled to overflowing with 30 or more students and one teacher trying to teach, say, math to a bunch of adolescents more interested in goofing off with each other. I'd like to see anyone here try to do it and control the class at the same time.
they do it in parochial schools all the time.
and I am till curious why you find the zuckerman guilt award
Mooshy-Mooshy"Hey, I remember that movie. I had Raisinets."
Dang, nobody here O L D enough to appreciate a killer Barney Miller reference.
I didn't see it till now wojo.
Friday we are having dinner with five teachers, I will ask them what they think of this film or idea.
Our son taught math in HS in a middle to upper middle class public school. He loved his bright students, his stupid students, which were the majority, caused a career change into respect and lots more money. It is America folks, not unions, not teachers, not all America but American culture. My wife has taught math for over twenty years. The rich do not go to these schools, ever wonder why? Has nothing to do with teachers, has lots to do with teacher pay and other perks money brings. Check out cost in private schools. And if unions disappeared this would be the same, probably worse in the poor areas.
"Here's what you see in Waiting for Superman, the new documentary that celebrates the charter school movement while blaming teachers unions for much of what ails American education: working- and middle-class parents desperate to get their charming, healthy, well-behaved children into successful public charter schools.
Here's what you don't see: the four out of five charters that are no better, on average, than traditional neighborhood public schools (and are sometimes much worse); charter school teachers, like those at the Green Dot schools in Los Angeles, who are unionized and like it that way; and noncharter neighborhood public schools, like PS 83 in East Harlem and the George Hall Elementary School in Mobile, Alabama, that are nationally recognized for successfully educating poor children." Grading 'Waiting for Superman' | The Nation
to bad they ( the nation and it sounds like those teachers) didn't see the movie , or if they did and thats all they got out of it, I wouldn't want my kids in their classroom.
Maybe there's something in the rest of the article that would appeal to you. Teachers MUST BE paid on merit, and not tenure, that's a given. But teachers likewise should be PAID the money they deserve for the most under-appreciated job in the world. There was a time when a "teacher" was a parent-figure, respected as the adult in the room while attending classes. Back then, a dedicated teacher didn't care quite as much that his/her pay was less than could be made in another vocation because the results of the effort were worth it. But why should a young person going to college in order to get a teacher's degree be subjected to a base salary just above the poverty line to teach a bunch of rowdy kids who don't really want to be taught? That's why so many GOOD teachers leave the profession.
Not having seen the movie yet, I don't know if there's any reference to student:teacher ratio or not. But suffice it to say, I've seen it a LOT, where classrooms are filled to overflowing with 30 or more students and one teacher trying to teach, say, math to a bunch of adolescents more interested in goofing off with each other. I'd like to see anyone here try to do it and control the class at the same time.
they do it in parochial schools all the time.
and I am till curious why you find the zuckerman guilt award
The NJ school was just an example. But your point about parochial schools is right-on. Also, charter schools succeed on so many levels because their classroom sizes are generally smaller, even further making my point.
they do it in parochial schools all the time.
and I am till curious why you find the zuckerman guilt award
The NJ school was just an example. But your point about parochial schools is right-on. Also, charter schools succeed on so many levels because their classroom sizes are generally smaller, even further making my point.
so size doesn't really matter..
I said in "metropolitan" areas. Perhaps I should have been more specific, i.e., inner city public schools.
Facebook's Mark Zuckerberg to give $100m to Newark's crumbling schools | Richard Adams | World news | guardian.co.uk
You think they omitted the metropolitan areas in Japan and Korea?
Why are you persisting with this argument? Japan and Korea are much more disciplined people in general. It therefore follows their instructors and students (and class rooms) will also be much more disciplined than can commonly be found today in typical unruly classrooms in the United States. This is a fucking nobrainer, and it does make me wonder if you are really a "teacher" at all, as you claim to be.
The NJ school was just an example. But your point about parochial schools is right-on. Also, charter schools succeed on so many levels because their classroom sizes are generally smaller, even further making my point.
so size doesn't really matter..
Huh? Of course it does. And your point about religious schools is correct. They have smaller classrooms, just as most charter schools, and therefore "control of the classroom" is much easier.
Catholicdiocesan schools tended to have relatively large class sizes. The average class size was 25 or more in 54 percent of Catholicdiocesan schools;
You think they omitted the metropolitan areas in Japan and Korea?
Why are you persisting with this argument? Japan and Korea are much more disciplined people in general. It therefore follows their instructors and students (and class rooms) will also be much more disciplined than can commonly be found today in typical unruly classrooms in the United States. This is a fucking nobrainer, and it does make me wonder if you are really a "teacher" at all, as you claim to be.
Speaking of no-brainer, I think you've finally got it:
It is NOT the class size that makes a difference in successful learning enviromnoents (urban or otherwise), but instead differences between, "people in general" or, what educated individuals know as differences in culture.
Glad the light finally came on for your dim-bulb.
The NJ school was just an example. But your point about parochial schools is right-on. Also, charter schools succeed on so many levels because their classroom sizes are generally smaller, even further making my point.
so size doesn't really matter..
Huh? Of course it does. And your point about religious schools is correct. They have smaller classrooms, just as most charter schools, and therefore "control of the classroom" is much easier.
so size doesn't really matter..
Huh? Of course it does. And your point about religious schools is correct. They have smaller classrooms, just as most charter schools, and therefore "control of the classroom" is much easier.
Source?
Parochial schools usually have LARGER classes.
Catholicdiocesan schools tended to have relatively large class sizes. The average class size was 25 or more in 54 percent of Catholicdiocesan schools;
Geez you really haven't a fucking clue about this subject.
Huh? Of course it does. And your point about religious schools is correct. They have smaller classrooms, just as most charter schools, and therefore "control of the classroom" is much easier.
Source?
Parochial schools usually have LARGER classes.
Catholicdiocesan schools tended to have relatively large class sizes. The average class size was 25 or more in 54 percent of Catholicdiocesan schools;
Geez you really haven't a fucking clue about this subject.
Oh brother, 1993-1994??? How about pulling some current information? After all, you're a teacher, right?
National Catholic Educational Association
U.S. Catholic Education Snapshot
2008-09 School Year
Catholic Schools
Total Catholic school enrollment: 2,192,531
Elementary school enrollment: 1,568,016
Secondary school enrollment: 624,515
Minority students: 643,173 29.3%
Non-Catholic: 325,835 14.9%
Total number of schools: 7,248
Elementary schools: 6,028
Secondary schools: 1,220
Co-educational: 93.6%
Single sex male: 2.6%
Single sex female: 3.8%
New schools in 2009/9: 31
New schools in last 5 years: 184
Schools with waiting lists for admission:
(29.2%) 2,114
Full-time professional staff: 157,615
Laity: 96.0%
Religious/clergy: 4.0%
Student/teacher ratio: 14:1
Average Tuition
Elementary: $3,159
Secondary: $8,182
so size doesn't really matter..
Huh? Of course it does. And your point about religious schools is correct. They have smaller classrooms, just as most charter schools, and therefore "control of the classroom" is much easier.
uhm no that wasn't my point parochial schools don't necessarily have smaller class they have DISCIPLINE among other values.
Why are you persisting with this argument? Japan and Korea are much more disciplined people in general. It therefore follows their instructors and students (and class rooms) will also be much more disciplined than can commonly be found today in typical unruly classrooms in the United States. This is a fucking nobrainer, and it does make me wonder if you are really a "teacher" at all, as you claim to be.
Speaking of no-brainer, I think you've finally got it:
It is NOT the class size that makes a difference in successful learning enviromnoents (urban or otherwise), but instead differences between, "people in general" or, what educated individuals know as differences in culture.
Glad the light finally came on for your dim-bulb.
Except that it would have been nice if you had made that opinion ALONG WITH the chart you posted. But failing that, it appeared to this bright bulb that you simply were eager to pick (another) fight with me.
You are so petty. I pity your students, if any.
Huh? Of course it does. And your point about religious schools is correct. They have smaller classrooms, just as most charter schools, and therefore "control of the classroom" is much easier.
Source?
Parochial schools usually have LARGER classes.
Catholicdiocesan schools tended to have relatively large class sizes. The average class size was 25 or more in 54 percent of Catholicdiocesan schools;
Geez you really haven't a fucking clue about this subject.
Oh brother, 1993-1994??? How about pulling some current information? After all, you're a teacher, right?
National Catholic Educational Association
U.S. Catholic Education Snapshot
2008-09 School Year
Catholic Schools
Total Catholic school enrollment: 2,192,531
Elementary school enrollment: 1,568,016
Secondary school enrollment: 624,515
Minority students: 643,173 29.3%
Non-Catholic: 325,835 14.9%
Total number of schools: 7,248
Elementary schools: 6,028
Secondary schools: 1,220
Co-educational: 93.6%
Single sex male: 2.6%
Single sex female: 3.8%
New schools in 2009/9: 31
New schools in last 5 years: 184
Schools with waiting lists for admission:
(29.2%) 2,114
Full-time professional staff: 157,615
Laity: 96.0%
Religious/clergy: 4.0%
Student/teacher ratio: 14:1
Average Tuition
Elementary: $3,159
Secondary: $8,182
Huh? Of course it does. And your point about religious schools is correct. They have smaller classrooms, just as most charter schools, and therefore "control of the classroom" is much easier.
uhm no that wasn't my point parochial schools don't necessarily have smaller class they have DISCIPLINE among other values.
Exactly.
Poor Maggie, despite the point a top her head, even the simplest concepts seem to go over it: Class size it irrelevant if you have disciplined students.
Obviously, Maggie has never attended one of the many colleges where HUNDREDS of Freshman are in one room.
