Police State

[RodISHI]

Par for the course from what I have seen in different situations of abuse of authority.

ACLU challenges Illinois eavesdropping act - Chicago Breaking News


"It's not unusual or illegal for police officers to flip on a camera as they get out of their squad car to talk to a driver they've pulled over.

But in Illinois, a civilian trying to make an audio recording of police in action is breaking the law."





Adrian and Fanon Perteet were passengers in a car at a DeKalb McDonald's drive-through in November when police moved in. Officers suspected that the car's driver was under the influence, according to the brothers.

Fanon Perteet, 23, said he was scared. Past experiences with police had left him suspicious of the officer's motives, he said. So he pulled out his cell phone and turned on the video camera, which also records sound.

"I felt obligated to record so nothing happened," said Perteet, an event planner.

"When the officers realized they were being taped, Perteet was arrested and taken to a squad car. Adrian Perteet, 21, a student at Northern Illinois University, then took out his cell phone and started recording his brother's arrest.

Both brothers were charged with violating the eavesdropping act, a felony, their lawyer Bruce Steinberg said. They pleaded guilty in April to attempted eavesdropping, a misdemeanor, to avoid felony convictions, Steinberg said.

The Perteets were ordered to apologize to the officers. They were given back their cell phones, which had been seized by police, but told to delete the recordings. If they complete the terms of the sentence and stay out of trouble, the charges will be dismissed, Steinberg said."

 

[editec]

Oh yeah...this is police state tactics for sure.

 

[Skull Pilot]

How can one eavesdrop on a cop while the cop is talking to them?

Seems to me a constitutional violation has been perpetrated.

 

[sparky]

but one man's police state is another's paradise, right?

 

[Mr.Nick]

Yeah, and my dad was beaten and tased by the police in his own home, he had outside and inside footage of the incident and the state justified the incident by asserting my dad was acting "unruley" outside, the video shows a completely different story, however at trial my father was unable to introduce the video (which contradicts absolutely everything the cops asserted) because the DA would have charged him with a felony for videotaping the police in a "public place" despite the fact they were at his front door.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lupF3XCtFzk]‪Tased Execution Style at Home... (Full Video)‬‏ - YouTube[/ame]

 

[RodISHI]

How can one eavesdrop on a cop while the cop is talking to them?

Seems to me a constitutional violation has been perpetrated.

Apparently one does not have the right to defend themselves with evidence obtain without getting permission from the abuser first.

 

[Moonglow]

but the police(pigs) are only protecting us from ourselves.

 

[Mr. H.]

Note to self: don't "pull out your cell phone". Why can't people sit still and shut up these days?

Sit still and shut the fuck up. Yeah, scared but obligated. My ass.

 

[MikeK]

Most disturbing is how many ordinary citizens will object to any criticism of police and are oblivious to the rise of the American police state which was initiated by Reagan's escalation of the drug war.

An insidious element of this rise is the increasingly common practice of paramilitary SWAT teams breaking into private residences via "no knock" raids. This is going on all over America, many times each day, and all-too-often they break into the wrong residence, humiliating, brutalizing -- sometimes even killing innocent occupants.

Go here for more info: Botched Paramilitary Police Raids

 

[Mr.Nick]

What is most disturbing is how many ordinary citizens will object to any criticism of police and are oblivious to the rise of the American police state which was initiated by Reagan's escalation of the drug war.

An insidious element of this rise is the increasingly common practice of paramilitary SWAT teams breaking into private residences via "no knock" raids. This is going on all over America, many times each day, and all-too-often they break into the wrong residence, humiliating, brutalizing -- sometimes even killing innocent occupants.

Go here for more info: Botched Paramilitary Police Raids

The police state is the result of assclowns and their love of government...

You really believe you can have your cake and eat it???

 

[LAfrique]

I just hope you are not attempting to put blame on Barack Obama. The US officially became a police state long ago under watch of George W. Bush through the signing of MEHPA and the Patriot Act II.

 

[frazzledgear]

How can one eavesdrop on a cop while the cop is talking to them?

Seems to me a constitutional violation has been perpetrated.

Let me get this straight -this law says if a cop stops and talks to YOU, it isn't eavesdropping on the cops because clearly you are being directly addressed by that cop and part of that conversation. Got that part down ok. BUT if during the course of the conversation you are having with the cop you videotape him while talking to him and he is talking to you -THEN you are "eavesdropping"? What a joke. Someone needs a dictionary -and a better lawyer! Similar laws have been successfully challenged in other states as a violation of first amendment rights. How can you EAVESDROP on PUBLIC servants doing their jobs...IN PUBLIC! The same people taping this were the ones being TALKED to by these cops -they weren't eavesdropping on a conversation THEY were part of -it is impossible to be eavesdropping on your OWN conversation! There is NO reasonable expectation of PRIVACY here and in this day and age for anyone out in public that is true, not just cops. How is it "eavesdropping" for them -but fine and dandy when I end up on numerous security cameras without MY knowledge? Oh, no reasonable expectation of privacy for ME in public -but there is for a PUBLIC SERVANT doing his job...IN PUBLIC?? Someone whose salary comes out of OUR pockets has "rights" we don't have? Exactly when did THAT happen that public servants were given "rights" that are reserved to them alone but entirely OFF LIMITS to everyone else? They have the authority to arrest me and order me to do as they tell me -but they don't have "privacy" rights that go above and beyond those of the rest of us.

I hope someone challenges Illinois' fucked up law which was born out of corruption -which is par for the course in Illinois, one of the three most revoltingly corrupt states in the Union. That is a law intended to give cops some cover if and when they abuse their authority so they only need to worry about "losing" their own videotape if they cross the line -you know, one of those "oh the video camera wasn't working that night and you have to take my word for it he was trying to grab my gun and resisting arrest which is why I had to beat him into a coma" type thing - and not worry about those made by someone else that may slip their notice. This was pushed by the police union in the first place after several cops were videotaped by bystanders abusing their authority.

This is just one more example of what happens when corruption is not just allowed to fester but is carefully cultivated as it is in Illinois. A filthy, blatantly corrupt system that exists for the benefit of those who are part of the power structure -NOT private citizens who become increasingly helpless to stop it. The time to have stopped it in Illinois was decades ago -now its so entrenched it is resistant to being cleaned up no matter who gets elected and no matter which party happens to be in power. The idea that private citizens who feared being abused by cops in the first place being charged with a crime and then force to APOLOGIZE to them for taping them during the course of this stop -is beyond obscene.

THIS is why it is necessary to videotape cops as they perform their duties in public: 15 Years in Prison For Taping the Cops? How Eavesdropping Laws Are Taking Away Our Best Defense Against Police Brutality | Missing Pieces

And in spite of successful challenges to these laws -it doesn't stop the arrests and only encourages police intimidation and greater abuses of power. http://blogs.miaminewtimes.com/riptide/2011/06/raymond_herisse_ided_as_man_sh.php

 

[frazzledgear]

I just hope you are not attempting to put blame on Barack Obama. The US officially became a police state long ago under watch of George W. Bush through the signing of MEHPA and the Patriot Act II.

And let me see.... when Democrats had full control of both houses of Congress and the Presidency they did what? RENEWED IT unchanged. Funny the left isn't screeching about the government wiretapping known terrorists in other countries when they call up someone in this country any more. Apparently they only find this worth hyperventilating about if a Republican is sitting in the White House during which they accused Bush of being Hitler! Oh but if a Democrat is in the White House during the exact same practices, why that is totally different!

Actually the Patriot Act did NOT result in an increase in police brutality for several reasons. The most important of which is that the bulk of the Patriot Act was actually existing law used to fight organized crime and was simply bundled and expanded to include terrorism -which is also organized crime but did not specifically fall under the definition as originally written. Its why Democrats kept it intact -they support treating terrorism like its just another crime anyway like shoplifting. It didn't give cops any new authority or powers and most important of all - it actually doesn't even apply to state and local police departments ANYWAY! It expanded FEDERAL INTELLIGENCE GATHERING powers, only slightly modified federal law enforcement powers to include terrorism as in violation of organized crimes but did not expand law enforcement powers for local or state police. And this thread is about a law regarding state and local cops -in case you didn't know that.

Police brutality has ALWAYS waxed and waned throughout our history as citizens struggled for a balance between giving police too much power and giving criminals too much leeway to get away. Do you think cops in the late 1800s and early 1900s were "kinder and gentler" and did their job more conscientiously than cops today? REALLY? How about during Prohibition?

We must have a police authority but it will ALWAYS require a vigilant citizenry against the constant tug of war between police abuse and police impotence -neither of which provides for the public good. Just like in many states they put an end to police chases after it resulted in crashes that killed innocent people -only to turn around and reinstate them when it was people suspected of violent crimes fleeing police knowing they could not be chased and were literally getting away with everything from armed robbery to murder. Laws forbidding private citizens from videotaping cops who are public servants as they perform their duties in public -must be challenged until every state with them is forced to rescind them -they serve NO purpose but to give bad cops extra cover and constitutional lawyers insist it is a violation of our first amendment rights.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Cops are public servants and we should have every right to document their behavior via video and audio tape.

 

[George Costanza]

I hope someone challenges Illinois' fucked up law

To where - the United States Supreme Court?

Lots of luck.

 

[Divine Wind]

Cops are public servants and we should have every right to document their behavior via video and audio tape.

Agreed. "We, the People" are the guardians of our own democracy.

It's one thing to try to take the photos of undercover cops and put their lives in jeopardy by revealing their identities or to otherwise engage in deliberately subverting and undermining the law. It's a completely different thing to document our police at work to make sure they are following the law.

 

[RodISHI]

Cops are public servants and we should have every right to document their behavior via video and audio tape.

Agreed. "We, the People" are the guardians of our own democracy. It's one thing to try to take the photos of undercover cops and put their lives in jeopardy by revealing their identities or to otherwise engage in deliberately subverting and undermining the law. It's a completely different thing to document our police at work to make sure they are following the law.

From what I have seen in the last fifteen years, "We the people" are doing a real shitty job at being guardians for the moment.

Being arrested or charged for using a video or a tape on a public official of any kind is as bad as being threatened with arrest for trespassing in a courthouse. Been there.

 

[PattGarrett]

Cops are public servants and we should have every right to document their behavior via video and audio tape.

Agreed. "We, the People" are the guardians of our own democracy. It's one thing to try to take the photos of undercover cops and put their lives in jeopardy by revealing their identities or to otherwise engage in deliberately subverting and undermining the law. It's a completely different thing to document our police at work to make sure they are following the law.

From what I have seen in the last fifteen years, "We the people" are doing a real shitty job at being guardians for the moment.

Being arrested or charged for using a video or a tape on a public official of any kind is as bad as being threatened with arrest for trespassing in a courthouse. Been there.

"I know of no safe depository of the ultimate powers of the society but the people themselves; and if we think them not enlightened enough to exercise their control with a wholesome discretion, the remedy is not to take it from them but to inform their discretion."~Thomas Jefferson

We have been taught through school that the government is a federal entity that is omnipowerful and that the people are to serve the government. Remember Kennedy's famaous "Ask not" speech? That was the beginning of the indoctrination of society that they tell us, not we tell them. Now we are witnessing the result of 40 years of constantly expanding, increasingly powerful, out of control government. We have lost our ability as well as, for the vast majority of society, the desire to govern the government.

I would say that the police state actually began during the Clinton years, thats when we were hit with the Brady Bill, and the assualt weapons ban. That is also when we adopted the U.N. drup enforcement program and hyper-expanded the war on drugs and began passing hundreds of new drug laws. Now we have law enforcement agencies across the country that are less law enforcement and more para-military. As a result we are seeing police dept.s across the country serving "no-knock" warrantless searches and trampling the liberties of those whom they are commissioned to protect.

I think that this law is a result of the high profile cases of the last couple of years in which law enforcement had went to wrong addresses and in some cases killed innocent people. They have absolutely forgotten the protect and serve idea and in many cases have adopted the harrass and intimidate mentality.

Madison wrote in the Federalist Papers that it is the duty of the people to be the governors of the government, and Jefferson said that when a man assumes a public trust he should consider himself a public property. However, our government sees us as government property and most states have enacted sovereign immunity laws covering public and government employees. It really worries me as to what the end result really is going to be for us as a society if we do not gain public control back from our government.

In Fl where I live it is a felony to videotape, photograph, or audio record any law enforcement officer or state park ranger. I learned this after following and videoing a speeding motorcycle cop after he flew past me weeving in and out of traffic doing 70 in a 40 mph zone. He was stopping at all red lights and had no lights on and eventually about 5 miles down the road he was pulling into his garage.

I called the sheriff's dept with his tag number and gave the location. They didn't seem too interested in the matter and when I said I was recording him they told me it was illegal and I could go to jail. Of course they then had zero concern for the speeding motorbike cop and even had the nerve to ask me what I was doing speeding behind him.

When I replied by saying that as public servants we the citizenry are their bosses, and that they have to obey the laws just like us, the dispatcher became really nasty with me so I decided it was time to just end the conversation. I did get a call from the patrol supervisor and I told him that in the process of calling them I had not saved the video. He didn't show much concern over the speeding officer either.

This law has been challenged up to the Fl. Supreme Court and upheld, as well as our "stop and frisk" law. The SaF law here says that they can approach you for no reason on the street and frisk you, without a warrant.

 

[LAfrique]

I just hope you are not attempting to put blame on Barack Obama. The US officially became a police state long ago under watch of George W. Bush through the signing of MEHPA and the Patriot Act II.

And let me see.... when Democrats had full control of both houses of Congress and the Presidency they did what? RENEWED IT unchanged. Funny the left isn't screeching about the government wiretapping known terrorists in other countries when they call up someone in this country any more. Apparently they only find this worth hyperventilating about if a Republican is sitting in the White House during which they accused Bush of being Hitler! Oh but if a Democrat is in the White House during the exact same practices, why that is totally different!

Actually the Patriot Act did NOT result in an increase in police brutality for several reasons. The most important of which is that the bulk of the Patriot Act was actually existing law used to fight organized crime and was simply bundled and expanded to include terrorism -which is also organized crime but did not specifically fall under the definition as originally written. Its why Democrats kept it intact -they support treating terrorism like its just another crime anyway like shoplifting. It didn't give cops any new authority or powers and most important of all - it actually doesn't even apply to state and local police departments ANYWAY! It expanded FEDERAL INTELLIGENCE GATHERING powers, only slightly modified federal law enforcement powers to include terrorism as in violation of organized crimes but did not expand law enforcement powers for local or state police. And this thread is about a law regarding state and local cops -in case you didn't know that.

Police brutality has ALWAYS waxed and waned throughout our history as citizens struggled for a balance between giving police too much power and giving criminals too much leeway to get away. Do you think cops in the late 1800s and early 1900s were "kinder and gentler" and did their job more conscientiously than cops today? REALLY? How about during Prohibition?

We must have a police authority but it will ALWAYS require a vigilant citizenry against the constant tug of war between police abuse and police impotence - neither of which provides for the public good. Just like in many states they put an end to police chases after it resulted in crashes that killed innocent people - only to turn around and reinstate them when it was people suspected of violent crimes fleeing police knowing they could not be chased and were literally getting away with everything from armed robbery to murder. Laws forbidding private citizens from videotaping cops who are public servants as they perform their duties in public - must be challenged until every state with them is forced to rescind them -they serve NO purpose but to give bad cops extra cover and constitutional lawyers insist it is a violation of our first amendment rights.

Frazzledgear, I am with you: I only sought to remind you that these civil rights violation did not just begin under Barack Obama, as some republicans would like to allege. Official misconduct in the US dates back to the founding of the US government. And as you mentioned, it is sad that while the people resents such treatment, the unconstitutional acts however continue because we tend to turn a blind eye when laws clearly violating our civil rights are passed by politicians we affiliate with. Long and short of matter: We help create these situations by cowardly catering to party politics.

 

[Bones]

The first thing we have to do is to stop having faith in the supreme court and our "representatives". The constitution means fuck all to a double-digit IQed donut chomper and it never will. People can site the constitution all they want while they are getting tazed, illegally searched, raided or arrested. It won't do you much good.