Police State USA

[Mr. P]

the right to due process has been removed upon two words. 'enemy combatant'.

A little more detail would be nice. Got ref for that? A link?

 

[rtwngAvngr]

The Libertarian Party has apparently been taken over by a bunch of antiamerican radicals, trying to convince americans to abandon their own security with odd appeals to conservatism, if tpahl is representative.

Do not be fooled, people.

To say that extra security measures are ONLY a charade to erode our freedoms implies one believes the war on terror must not be real. It obviously is.

Thinking we can just "stop making the terrorsists mad" and they will end their jihad is a naivete of the most dangerous sort which must not go unchallenged in public discourse. Luckily I'm here.

Kathianne, I'm glad someone else can see through this pucky.

 

[DKSuddeth]

A little more detail would be nice. Got ref for that? A link?

If you are unaware of the patriot act and the fact that by declaring someone an 'enemy combatant', one can be held indefinitely, without charge or counsel, and you actually require me to post a link despite the fact that this has been argued for the last 3 years, I have to ask where the hell have you been?

 

[DKSuddeth]

The Libertarian Party has apparently been taken over by a bunch of antiamerican radicals, trying to convince americans to abandon their own security with odd appeals to conservatism, if tpahl is representative.

Do not be fooled, people.

To say that extra security measures are ONLY a charade to erode our freedoms implies one believes the war on terror must not be real. It obviously is.

Thinking we can just "stop making the terrorsists mad" and they will end their jihad is a naivete of the most dangerous sort which must not go unchallenged in public discourse. Luckily I'm here.

Kathianne, I'm glad someone else can see through this pucky.

why do you support opression for security over civil rights for all americans?

 

[Mr. P]

Don't get me wrong folks I have concerns for the Country too.
Your fears are normal and that's a good thing. We are driving over a bumpy
road right now for sure. But being a bit of a seasoned citizen I have to tell
you this. If some of you folks had been around in the 60's you'd just shrug your shoulders
and keep your eyes open. What we are seeing now is nothing in comparison to the turmoil then.
GAWD I sound like an ole Fart!

DK.......I knew the PA was your drum...Please explain how that effects me.
Are they just coming to take me away in the night? For what? Because the PA
says they can...NOT. It doesn't work that way.

Hey the good news is we survived it then, I think we will this time too.

 

[Flying Duck]

If you are unaware of the patriot act and the fact that by declaring someone an 'enemy combatant', one can be held indefinitely, without charge or counsel, and you actually require me to post a link despite the fact that this has been argued for the last 3 years, I have to ask where the hell have you been?

To which SPECIFIC sections of The Patriot Act are you referring? Cite them.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

why do you support opression for security over civil rights for all americans?

why do I who what where?

Our civil rights won't matter if we're all nuked because we're too politically correct to take the measures necessary to stop terrorists using our freedoms to destroy the government which maintains those freedoms. also, read my sig.

 

[ken]

DKS, sorry to abbr,


Can you give a personal example where your rights have been violated by the Patriot Act, or any other recent measure by law enforcement or security personnel??




KEN

 

[HGROKIT]

why do I who what where?

Our civil rights won't matter if we're all nuked because we're too politically correct to take the measures necessary to stop terrorists using our freedoms to destroy the government which maintains those freedoms. also, read my sig.

So according to your logic, that would also mean at the loss of our freedoms. yeah - that makes sense.

 

[Mr. P]

To which SPECIFIC sections of The Patriot Act are you referring? Cite them.

Thanks Duck...I always hope that people
know that is required.
when making such claims..Nope..guess not.

 

[DKSuddeth]

DK.......I knew the PA was your drum...Please explain how that effects me.
Are they just coming to take me away in the night? For what? Because the PA
says they can...NOT. It doesn't work that way.

Hey the good news is we survived it then, I think we will this time too.

the point of the matter is will it stop there? what happens if an administration you DON'T trust has the power to use it? and just because something doesn't affect you DIRECTLY, does not mean it doesn't have the ability to.

 

[DKSuddeth]

why do I who what where?

Our civil rights won't matter if we're all nuked because we're too politically correct to take the measures necessary to stop terrorists using our freedoms to destroy the government which maintains those freedoms. also, read my sig.

so you support the removal of all civil rights and liberties as long as we don't get nuked?

 

[DKSuddeth]

DKS, sorry to abbr,


Can you give a personal example where your rights have been violated by the Patriot Act, or any other recent measure by law enforcement or security personnel??

KEN

If ONE person is affected, we all are. The fallacy of an action not DIRECTLY affecting you is ridiculous at best. Its all about the possibility.

 

[DKSuddeth]

Thanks Duck...I always hope that people
know that is required.
when making such claims..Nope..guess not.

and blah blah blah, cite the EXACT blah blah blah. As I stated before, we've had numerous threads in the past about this, have even posted the PA somewhere on here. If you came into the world a bit late, thats not my issue.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

so you support the removal of all civil rights and liberties as long as we don't get nuked?

DId I say that? Simmer down, mr.

 

[Annie]

so you support the removal of all civil rights and liberties as long as we don't get nuked?

I am all for as much personal rights as possible, from freedom of speech to religion, to property. However, when the public safety is at risk, which I think is a logical concern in NYC during the convention, I don't think that protestors, that have an agenda of anarchy, http://www.rncnotwelcome.org/fighttheman.html

should have free reign. If that is curtailing of rights, well slap me silly. (I know you will!) I also believe that rational use of profiling should be allowed at airports, etc. That doesn't mean, 'round up the Muslims' but does mean that they shouldn't be pulling over X number of grandmas/grandpas and toddlers. While it's possible these are suicide bombers, less likely than 25 year old, Saudi, name Ali.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

So according to your logic, that would also mean at the loss of our freedoms. yeah - that makes sense.

I didn't say that. I'm saying right now I haven't seen anything too alarming. I've seen nothing so far that seems unjustified in the context of the war on terror. You'll find many feel as I do.

 

[Mr. P]

the point of the matter is will it stop there? what happens if an administration you DON'T trust has the power to use it? and just because something doesn't affect you DIRECTLY, does not mean it doesn't have the ability to.

Sorry DK..but I think "your" point was we lost freedom, due to
the PA, not the potential of lost freedom. Ya still gotta show me that.

 

[freeandfun1]

I have to agree with Mr. P. There is nothing wrong with our paranoia, but we need to temper it by reacting to what is really happening and not just reacting to what we think is happening or are AFRAID of happening.

I understand "pre-emption" in this case means pre-empting the abuse that could happen under the PA. Well, to do that, you have to vote. You also have to stay vigilant and make sure you don't put yourself in a position to be "questionable". Sure, just like any other law, "creep" could allow the PA to be abused. But under the current circumstances, I am willing to watch, wait and then see what really happens under it. Being paranoid is good, as it keeps you on your toes, but it also can be dangerous as it could cause you to put yourself in a more dangerous position (i.e. letting your worries over something that ISN'T happening prevent actions that could prevent a terrorist attack).

 

[DKSuddeth]

DId I say that? Simmer down, mr.

:dev1: flames, seething, fire, heat. woohoo.