Police State USA

[dilloduck]

As they should, to some degree at least.

ahhhh but there's a difference between are government and the people who get paid to run it.

 

[HGROKIT]

ahhhh but there's a difference between are government and the people who get paid to run it.

Not exactly Dillo. Those that get paid to run it for the most part are those we put in there. And right now, those that we have put in there are giving me pleanty reason to be fearful at times.

now, those damned appointed judges - that legislate from the bench AND are allowed to - are another story all together.

 

[dilloduck]

Not exactly Dillo. Those that get paid to run it for the most part are those we put in there. And right now, those that we have put in there are giving me pleanty reason to be fearful at times.

now, those damned appointed judges - that legislate from the bench AND are allowed to - are another story all together.

Elected-paid-----all the same now----combine most money with best propaganda and you've got a winner every time . I agree with appointees---we're screwed daily by them. I only feel safer from our govt. becuase they are a bit more visable and the press has better access to them.

 

[tpahl]

depends on who you fear the most--libertarians seem to think it is our own govt. right now.

That is not true. We simply have a different solution for dealing with islamic terrorist. Rather than trying to take away our freedoms to hopeful prevent a terrorist from entering the country, libertarians believe it is far more effective to stop provoking terrorists attacks.

The drug war is a good example to look at in terms of the new terror war. We have spent billions on the war on drugs. We have spent billions on trying to stop drugs from entering our country. thousands of americans (including my father in law) do nothing for a living but try and stop these illegal drugs from entering our country. Has it worked yet? no. Nor will it ever. the more successful we are capturing the drugs, the more profitable it becomes to smuggle drugs attracting new desperate people as well as high tech solutions to getting around our governments barricades. We will NEVER be able to stop even a 50% of the drugs coming into our country no matter what we spend.

All a terrorists would need to do to get into this country is hide inside a shipment of cocaine or herion. odds are they will make it in undetected be brought right into an inner city and be able to go about his business.

In the meantime our governemtn will continue to erode our freedoms in the name of stopping drugs, or terrorists, or whatever is the current excuse to grant government power and erode our freedoms. The drugs will keep coming, the terrorists will keep coming and the government will keep calling for more security measures (read less freedoms).

The solution? Stop terrorists from wanting to come attack us (end military occupatio of mid east countries, embargoes against mid east countries, and aid to islamic enemies) Stop drug smugglers from wantings to bring drugs to our country (remove the profit). In other words get a less intrusive, less interventionist government. Not just because such governments are a threat themselves but because they create other more immediate threats.

Travis

 

[tpahl]

As they should, to some degree at least.

looking at the last 100 years of history in the world governments have killed far more of their own citizens than other citizens. Look at Mao, Stalin, & Hitler. All of them either consolidated government power and removed citizens freedoms in the name of security or their predecessors did it.

Travis

 

[tpahl]

Elected-paid-----all the same now----combine most money with best propaganda and you've got a winner every time . I agree with appointees---we're screwed daily by them. I only feel safer from our govt. becuase they are a bit more visable and the press has better access to them.

The incumbent re-election rate is downright scary.

Travis

 

[HGROKIT]

looking at the last 100 years of history in the world governments have killed far more of their own citizens than other citizens. Look at Mao, Stalin, & Hitler. All of them either consolidated government power and removed citizens freedoms in the name of security or their predecessors did it.

Travis

You are scary.

 

[Annie]

You are scary.

I agree. There is appeal to the conservative ideals of less government and basic rights, until you recognize that it comes down to the idea of, "It's all the US fault," and isolationism. Most of us learned that lesson in school with WWI.

 

[tpahl]

I agree. There is appeal to the conservative ideals of less government and basic rights, until you recognize that it comes down to the idea of, "It's all the US fault," and isolationism. Most of us learned that lesson in school with WWI.

I am tired of you claiming that i am saying it is all the US fault. I am not and have not made that claim. In fact in this particular case i was talking about other governments killing their own citizens.

Travis

 

[HGROKIT]

I agree. There is appeal to the conservative ideals of less government and basic rights, until you recognize that it comes down to the idea of, "It's all the US fault," and isolationism. Most of us learned that lesson in school with WWI.

I think the isolationism idea is a bit overblown from a "bad" standpoint.

Meaning, I do not feel that we have to participate in everyone else's problems. If someone has a problem, we should first ask ourselves - how does their problem affect us. If it does, how should we help in such a way as it takes us out of the loop and then get out!

There is another thread that just started that talke about the EU and UN not having any balls and pointing out that becasue of it, things always fall to the US and then we alwasy come out on the shitty end of the sitck. Well, screw that!

 

[freeandfun1]

If someone has a problem, we should first ask ourselves - how does their problem affect us. If it does, how should we help in such a way as it takes us out of the loop and then get out!

That's how it started out, but mission creep has taken over.

 

[HGROKIT]

That's how it started out, but mission creep has taken over.

Yeah I know Viet Nam is when that phrase got coined.

Love your bitch slap sig. Used to have that same sticker on my helmet.

 

[tpahl]

That's how it started out, but mission creep has taken over.

That is not how it started. If they had asked that question we would have never sent troops on any mission to begin with.

Travis

 

[freeandfun1]

That is not how it started. If they had asked that question we would have never sent troops on any mission to begin with.

Travis

Not true. We went after Tripoli because of Pirates. Since the beginning of our nation we have gone into areas where we thought we must to protect our interests. IN the beginning though, we didn't get involved in wars or situations that did not have a direct influence on the USA.

Tripoli
1805 - Marines assemble a fleet to Derna, Tripoli to put down Barbary Coast pirates taking a toll on American merchant ships in the Mediterranean. Lieutenant Presley O'Bannon and his Marines marched across 600 miles of North Africa's Libyan Desert to successfully storm the fortified Tripolitan City of Derna. Marines today sing about the victory in the second line of their hymn: "to the shores of Tripoli." The Marine Corps officer sword, adopted in 1826 and used today, is modeled after the Mameluke scimitar given to O'Bannon in appreciation.

 

[Mr. P]

Lots of talk about loss of rights/freedom in this thread.
I haven't noticed any myself..can one of you give some specifics?
Not claims of loss, but hard cold...you had this now you don't...specifics.

 

[DKSuddeth]

Lots of talk about loss of rights/freedom in this thread.
I haven't noticed any myself..can one of you give some specifics?
Not claims of loss, but hard cold...you had this now you don't...specifics.

the right to due process has been removed upon two words. 'enemy combatant'.

 

[Annie]

Lots of talk about lose of rights/freedom in this thread.
I haven't noticed any myself..can one of you give some specifics?
Not claims of lose, but hard cold...you had this now you don't...specifics.

Mr P, thank you! I was beginning to think I was missing something here. Other than getting to the airport much earlier than in the past and having surveillance cameras all over the place, nothing has changed in my life. I know I'm not ready for a revolution. There are things I'd like to change, but feel they can be dealt with by voting and involvement.

 

[freeandfun1]

Lots of talk about loss of rights/freedom in this thread.
I haven't noticed any myself..can one of you give some specifics?
Not claims of loss, but hard cold...you had this now you don't...specifics.

For me, it is not what we have lost, but it is about what we are going to lose if things DO NOT change!

Freedom of speech is being squashed every day. Just visit a University and try to say anything about anybody that is not a christian. christians are free game.

 

[freeandfun1]

Mr P, thank you! I was beginning to think I was missing something here. Other than getting to the airport much earlier than in the past and having surveillance cameras all over the place, nothing has changed in my life. I know I'm not ready for a revolution. There are things I'd like to change, but feel they can be dealt with by voting and involvement.

I think this election will be a big test. If the dems try "winning" through the courts, then I think we are headed down a slippery slope.

I hope I am wrong and just being paranoid, but for the first time in my life, I am truly concerned about where this country is headed as a whole.

 

[Annie]

For me, it is not what we have lost, but it is about what we are going to lose if things DO NOT change!

Freedom of speech is being squashed every day. Just visit a University and try to say anything about anybody that is not a christian. christians are free game.

Free, it was that way back in the 70's. If the student stands up for their rights, they will be honored, nothing is more wishy washy than university administrations.