Police State: Police Officer Slays Marine Sergeant In School Parking Lot...

[Annie]

Most police are very poorly trained. BART cops in the SF Bay area are notoriously poorly trained. So much so that officers will never call them as back up. This Sgt. has changed his story and that is never good. He either royally screwed up and is trying to cover it up ala Mehserle, or he is having second thoughts about the shooting and changing his story to try and make himself sound better. Either way it is a telling change in his story.

I don't know about 'most' police. I know about those around me. Here they hold a BS in police science or they were MP's in military. The departments spend about $100k in training each for first 2 years and they are never alone during that time. So yeah, there are some that are let go, but I'm fairly confident with those on the street.

With that said, if any of them were making a call and shooting their gun, much less killing someone, there would be a very detailed report. Hopefully we'll get a better picture down the line.

They are taught how to be cops which emphasizes paper work. I am talking about tactical and situational awareness. That takes extensive training that is not taught (other than a one day tactics class for the vast majority) to police officers.

The kind of training I am talking about is put on by Gunsite, Thunder Ranch and a whole host of other specialised training facilities. Police officers will rarely be reimbursed for taking that type of training.

Most cops look at the gun as just a simple tool on their belt. It isn't. It is the most powerful tool they carry, and its misuse leads to pain, anguish and death. They are not trained in its proper use no matter how many will say they are.

I feel that ALL police officers should be required to take at least one of those classes a year and yes, I would happily pay more in taxes to cover that expense. It will pay for itself quickly in reduced lawsuit payouts.

you don't know what you are speaking about. Lost all credibility here in my eyes.

 

[AmericanFirst]

Considering that statement was made by the cops, it didn't change mine.

Let's find an impartial witness. oh wait, there isn't one. What a surprise.

The kids are witnesses. Very biased witnesses toward their father. So why would a cop make up a story about the kids when he knows they would contradict him in a heartbeat if he was lying?

Why is no family member screaming blue bloody hell if the cop is lying? Wouldn't the kids have told a family member in the last seven days the cops lied?

I think it is far more likely there is some very shoddy reporting in all of these stories, and that explains much of the contradictions. It is very common for reporters to get the facts all screwed up. That's why we have trials by juries instead of in the court of public opinion.

Union blames Marine killed by deputy for fatal shooting - latimes.com

Loggins' friends and fellow Marines, who said they were baffled by the incident, described him as a deeply devout Christian who had received good-conduct medals for his military service. Aaron Banks, who served with Loggins and saw him as a mentor, said he didn't believe the union.

"Of course they're going to blame him for his death — why would they admit to murder?" he said. "I believe they're saying what needs to be said to cover their deputy."

The family itself is no doubt in morning, but it's clear what the family friends think.

I know what I think. I think the officer should go to jail.

 

[whitehall]

It's only a police state when misconduct is ignored and/or rewarded. It looks like the officer in question will be indicted after the investigation is completed. What more do you want, a public lynching? What do you call it when the highest ranking federal cop is rewarded for authorizing 3,000 illegal weapons to be shipped to Mexico and slaughter Mexican citizens plus one American Police Officer?

 

[WorldWatcher]

It was his routine to go to that school and walk around the track and take his girls with him. If he was so threatening, why is this the only time anyone took issue with him?

"The association said a deputy saw Loggins plow a car through a gate at San Clemente High School then walk away.

His daughters, ages 9 and 14, could be heard screaming in the SUV, and when approached by sheriff's personnel reported their father had been acting oddly, the statement said.

Source: New Details Released in Marine's Death | NBC San Diego"​

Maybe because at 5:00AM in the morning, a male crashing through a school gate, and having two young female children screaming in the back seat might...

....... I'm not a cop here...

................But just might not be considered a "normal routine".



If the cop had let the driver drive off and if this had been a child abduction case and the cop had drove off with two young girls in the back - many would be screaming for his head. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

Lets wait for the investigation before deciding to crucify the cop.



>>>>

Normally I would, but the cop has already changed his story too many times.

You have access to the officers on-scene statement and been able to compare it to later interviews with Detectives?

Can you link to them?




Or maybe you are attributing differences in stories where it says "police say" and "spokesman says" and "public affairs officers says"... as being the direct comments of the Officer involved.

Here is a news flash for you - reporters rush to judgement and are trying to get something out on the radio, tv, net, newspaper - ahead of the others so mistakes happen.

I'll wait for final judgmental for the investigation and dashcam video.



>>>>

 

[paulitician]

It's only a police state when misconduct is ignored and/or rewarded. It looks like the officer in question will be indicted after the investigation is completed. What more do you want, a public lynching? What do you call it when the highest ranking federal cop is rewarded for authorizing 3,000 illegal weapons to be shipped to Mexico and slaughter Mexican citizens plus one American Police Officer?

I'll believe it when i see it. Let me know when this cop sees the inside of a prison cell.

 

[WorldWatcher]

really? Got a link?

www.dashcamsarenotonlinefortheworldtoseeinstantly.com

Whoops! That didn't go well.

Try giving it another chance here:

Didn't work, got another one?

I think that was a "pull my finger type of link".



>>>>

 

[Annie]

really? Got a link?

www.dashcamsarenotonlinefortheworldtoseeinstantly.com

Whoops! That didn't go well.

Try giving it another chance here:

Didn't work, got another one?

Was there supposed to be links after those colons?

 

[WorldWatcher]

Let me get this straight, he was unarmed? I am a retired Law Enforcement Officer and I do not see the justification for deadly force in the article or why the cop was even there. The article says the father went there with his children often.

His 'erratic behavior' story just doesn't cut it. He killed the man and will now have to be held accountable. That being said, i don't think this cop will ever see the inside of a prison cell. Our Police have been granted special powers & privileges. They're above the law now. Welcome to Police State U.S.A.

There is NO way this is justifiable shooting. Police are taught non-lethal ways first. Shooting someone is last resort and only to protect life. The cop should have tasered or maced him.

If an unknown male person, at 4:00AM is attempting to drive away with two crying little girls on the back seat the option is taser or mace?

How well do they go through automobile windows?


[DISCLAIMER: Not saying the cop is right, but the assumption that there is "NO" way may be premature until the investigation is complete.]


>>>>

 

[BlindBoo]

It's only a police state when misconduct is ignored and/or rewarded. It looks like the officer in question will be indicted after the investigation is completed. What more do you want, a public lynching? What do you call it when the highest ranking federal cop is rewarded for authorizing 3,000 illegal weapons to be shipped to Mexico and slaughter Mexican citizens plus one American Police Officer?

I'll believe it when i see it. Let me know when this cop sees the inside of a prison cell.

Alway the pragmaitc libertarian huh? Guilty until proven innocent.

 

[AmericanFirst]

His 'erratic behavior' story just doesn't cut it. He killed the man and will now have to be held accountable. That being said, i don't think this cop will ever see the inside of a prison cell. Our Police have been granted special powers & privileges. They're above the law now. Welcome to Police State U.S.A.

There is NO way this is justifiable shooting. Police are taught non-lethal ways first. Shooting someone is last resort and only to protect life. The cop should have tasered or maced him.

If an unknown male person, at 4:00AM is attempting to drive away with two crying little girls on the back seat the option is taser or mace?

How well do they go through automobile windows?


[DISCLAIMER: Not saying the cop is right, but the assumption that there is "NO" way may be premature until the investigation is complete.]


>>>>

The article said he was the children"s father and he was known for doing this. Still do not see the justification.

 

[Conservative]

really? Got a link?

www.dashcamsarenotonlinefortheworldtoseeinstantly.com

Whoops! That didn't go well.

Try giving it another chance here:

Didn't work, got another one?

your sarcasm meter is off.
Try my link again, and once the browser page saying it failed to load comes up... carefully read the link.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

Did the cop holler out "Stop" or anything?????

Does that really matter? He shot the man dead right in front of his children. Whether the cop hollered "Stop" or anything really doesn't matter now for that poor guy and his kids. Murder was not this cop's only recourse. He will have to be held accountable for his crime.

Let me get this straight, he was unarmed? I am a retired Law Enforcement Officer and I do not see the justification for deadly force in the article or why the cop was even there. The article says the father went there with his children often.

As a retired LEO you should know that an automobile can be a deadly weapon if used as such.

Fact is you weren't there. You have no idea what threat existed and what split second decision had to be made.

It's easy to Monday morning quarterback these types of events but not knowing all the facts of the case rendering a judgement is foolish.

 

[Conservative]

www.dashcamsarenotonlinefortheworldtoseeinstantly.com

Whoops! That didn't go well.

Try giving it another chance here:

Didn't work, got another one?

I think that was a "pull my finger type of link".



>>>>

ya think?

 

[Conservative]

Did the cop holler out "Stop" or anything?????

Does that really matter? He shot the man dead right in front of his children. Whether the cop hollered "Stop" or anything really doesn't matter now for that poor guy and his kids. Murder was not this cop's only recourse. He will have to be held accountable for his crime.

Let me get this straight, he was unarmed? I am a retired Law Enforcement Officer and I do not see the justification for deadly force in the article or why the cop was even there. The article says the father went there with his children often.

at 4:00AM? With the kids crying?

 

[Lonestar_logic]

Does that really matter? He shot the man dead right in front of his children. Whether the cop hollered "Stop" or anything really doesn't matter now for that poor guy and his kids. Murder was not this cop's only recourse. He will have to be held accountable for his crime.

Let me get this straight, he was unarmed? I am a retired Law Enforcement Officer and I do not see the justification for deadly force in the article or why the cop was even there. The article says the father went there with his children often.

His 'erratic behavior' story just doesn't cut it. He killed the man and will now have to be held accountable. That being said, i don't think this cop will ever see the inside of a prison cell. Our Police have been granted special powers & privileges. They're above the law now. Welcome to Police State U.S.A.

I already know you're full of shit but I'd like you to explain these officers that have been found guilty if this is truly a "Police State U.S.A.".

 

[eots]

Joliet Marine Sergeant Manuel Loggins fatally shot by California sheriff's deputy - WGN

Deputy Says He Shot 'Irrational' Marine to Protect Kids in Car - San Clemente, CA Patch

It's amazing what you learn when you read articles that are not cherry picked.

lol yes it changes everything knowing he drove a little fast into the parking lot and perhaps did not hear the police or think they were talking to him...clearly a death sentence was appropriate

 

[asaratis]

It's terrible he put his kids in a position to witness it as well.

I wasn't there either, but I can't agreed that he "put his kids in a position to see it". You sound as if he was aware it was going to happen. The cop erred.

 

[CaféAuLait]

Well that does change things.

Yeah, according the first article, he was walking away from the car when the officer yelled at him and when he turned around, the officer felt threatened so he shot him.

According to the second article, he was about to drive away, so the officer shot him.

Either way, it pretty much puts the officer in the wrong.

How do you know the conflicting stories are not the result of incompetent reporting?

The police themselves state the story has changed:

Amormino acknowledged that this version of events differs from an earlier account released by the Sheriff's Department, in which the deputy reportedly opened fire because he feared for his own life.

Deputy Says He Shot 'Irrational' Marine to Protect Kids in Car - San Clemente, CA Patch

 

[eots]

Yeah, according the first article, he was walking away from the car when the officer yelled at him and when he turned around, the officer felt threatened so he shot him.

According to the second article, he was about to drive away, so the officer shot him.

Either way, it pretty much puts the officer in the wrong.

How do you know the conflicting stories are not the result of incompetent reporting?

The police themselves state the story has changed:

Amormino acknowledged that this version of events differs from an earlier account released by the Sheriff's Department, in which the deputy reportedly opened fire because he feared for his own life.

Deputy Says He Shot 'Irrational' Marine to Protect Kids in Car - San Clemente, CA Patch

yes subjective observations of someone of being irrational,unarmed and fifty feet away is very scary... best to kill first and ask questions later

 

[JakeStarkey]

The man was unarmed. Shooting him dead was not necessary. It's very sad.

If he is acting erratically, and failing to comply with orders the police can use force. He should have tazed him before anything else though, but if time was imminent he did what he had to do to save the girls. Do I agree with it? Nope, but I wasn't there so I cannot judge the officer, I did not see what he seen.

Shooting the man dead was not the cop's only recourse. He should be held accountable.

The marine brought this on himself. The sergeant did that right thing. You ae wrong.