Please read the truth....

[Chris]

Speaking of universal healthcare it doesn't make much sense to me that the same people who complain about it being a handout don't seem mind, or aren't aware, that they are paying higher premiums for healthcare coverage and higher fees at hospitals for services, to offset the cost of treating patients that can't pay. The folks who can afford to pay the high cost of healthcare are paying for the cost to treat folks who can't pay anyway.

What these dumb as a box of rocks Republicans don't realize is that we already have universal healthcare, just a really bad, really expensive version of it. Emergency room services are open to all, but those services are the most expensive, and so our system is twice as expensive as every other Western democracy.

Nice post by the way. You are the first poster I've seen who got it.

 

[AllieBaba]

Did you know that according to Social Security, the application process takes from 1 to 3 years to complete and most applications are denied? Better take that into account if you work 30 years and find yourself unable to work.

However, the coverage goes back to the date of application....and there are interim programs which will cover medical for those who look like they're going to eventually be receiving disability.

 

[sealybobo]

......and stop lying.

Barack Obama - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Unfit for Publication

"Corsi has penned a litany of bigoted, hateful comments-- crossing the line so thoroughly that even the right-wing operatives behind Swift Boat Veterans for Truth disavowed him. This is a man who smears the Catholic Church, calls the Pope 'senile,' and regularly demeans public servants in vile sexual and racial terms," the document reads. "In short, his record of attacks is disgusting and false, and so is this book."



Obama Campaign Punches Back Hard Against Corsi Smears

 

[AllieBaba]

Besides which, even if you don't work, in this country you can still get health care. It's a non-problem, made up by the lefties.

 

[sealybobo]

Besides which, even if you don't work, in this country you can still get health care. It's a non-problem, made up by the lefties.

Skyrocketing costs of health care is not a problem?

Just like skyrocketing college costs aren't a problem, eh?

Or skyrocketing gas prices, huh?

 

[chopcrazy]

Speaking of universal healthcare it doesn't make much sense to me that the same people who complain about it being a handout don't seem mind, or aren't aware, that they are paying higher premiums for healthcare coverage and higher fees at hospitals for services, to offset the cost of treating patients that can't pay. The folks who can afford to pay the high cost of healthcare are paying for the cost to treat folks who can't pay anyway.

It is interesting. It sounds like you are saying healthcare is a zero sum game. The hospital say has $100 in costs so it needs $100 in revenue to balance. As long as the hospital gets the money, it can continue functioning. With universal healthcare, the people paying higher premiums won't have to pay as much and the people not paying premiums will then start having to pay. Is this correct?

If universal healthcare is to reduce costs. What costs at the hospital will drop? Do emergency room doctors and staff comprise a large chunk of hospital costs?

 

[AllieBaba]

Skyrocketing costs of health care is not a problem?

Just like skyrocketing college costs aren't a problem, eh?

Or skyrocketing gas prices, huh?

MOre people are attending college than ever before, dumbass.
And explain to me how universal healthcare will make it less expensive...if people aren't paying for it..who will be? That's right...THE PEOPLE.

 

[chopcrazy]

Skyrocketing costs of health care is not a problem?

Just like skyrocketing college costs aren't a problem, eh?

Or skyrocketing gas prices, huh?

What is considered skyrocketing cost at a state run college? Is your data for a specific state or an average for all state colleges?

 

[sealybobo]

MOre people are attending college than ever before, dumbass.
And explain to me how universal healthcare will make it less expensive...if people aren't paying for it..who will be? That's right...THE PEOPLE.

Yes, more people are going to college. That means more people graduating with huge debt, with interest, sometimes compounding interest. They have to go to college. What jobs are available if you dont' go to college? Nothing? Exactly. So now just to get a normal job, you have to go through 4 years of school and pay $50K. What a racket.

Suckers.

 

[sealybobo]

What is considered skyrocketing cost at a state run college? Is your data for a specific state or an average for all state colleges?

College tuition, I believe, is skyrocketing all over the country. Can you show me it is not skyrocketing in certain areas? I don't think it is just happening in Michigan.

If it is, that sucks, because it'd be another reason for our young kids to leave. Talk about brain drain.

 

[sealybobo]

What is considered skyrocketing cost at a state run college? Is your data for a specific state or an average for all state colleges?

When I went to school in the 90's, you could go to a state university for $5K a year. What is it now? $10K a year? So you can't save up over the summer to pay for school anymore, so kids are graduating with $40K bills. Talk about starting off on the wrong foot. When I graduated i owed $3K. It was great!

 

[editec]

You are, of course, aware that when the Government gets involved all that happens is costs keep going up?

Having been in the military and seen our Government at work let me give ya a little lesson.

Any Agency the Government runs has a budget. Every one of those Agencies have to spend EVERY dime in that Budget every year no matter what or they will get said budget cut. Most Agencies want more money every year and fight to get it. There is ZERO incentive to save anything in the Government. Saving only occurs when the agency needs the money for something specific then they "save" from the budget to SPEND it on this new or needed item.

Any Agency formed will in short order begin justifying their existances for then and forever. No matter if it is needed or not. That is how Governments work.

Further there is job creep. In order to ensure survival agencies will create all kind of excuses for why they exist and ask for more money based on these NEW tasks they have created for themselves and demand more money for more people to DO these tasks.

Yup!

That is a damned good point.

No good enough, I think to sit back and say tough noogies about the health care crises, but one that we really do need to remember as we try to find some solution to it.

 

[editec]

I have been informed, and a casual look at costs as my son goes to college seems to confirm it, that the cost of higher education has risen even faster than the cost of health care.

 

[Jon]

I have been informed, and a casual look at costs as my son goes to college seems to confirm it, that the cost of higher education has risen even faster than the cost of health care.

Tuition costs have risen only slightly. Costs of living has gotten more expensive, which increases the cost of attendance. Also, students are expecting higher standards while in school than they used to. Most students used to live in the dorms their entire college careers, now they want apartments off campus. Most students ate in the cafeteria, now they want to eat pizza and go out to eat every night.

It's not that tuition has risen so much as it's that kids are more spoiled.

 

[Denny Crane]

It is interesting. It sounds like you are saying healthcare is a zero sum game. The hospital say has $100 in costs so it needs $100 in revenue to balance. As long as the hospital gets the money, it can continue functioning. With universal healthcare, the people paying higher premiums won't have to pay as much and the people not paying premiums will then start having to pay. Is this correct?

If universal healthcare is to reduce costs. What costs at the hospital will drop? Do emergency room doctors and staff comprise a large chunk of hospital costs?

What folks pay for a premium with universal healthcare would depend on what funding mechanisms was used to achieve it. This is Obama's proposal:
Barack Obama | Change We Can Believe In | Health Care

Folks seem concerned about what they will pay under a universal healthcare system but we are already paying the most money for healthcare of any
country in the world while at the same time being ranked about 37th in the care we get.

As for what costs will drop, my guess is it would depend on what regulations were put in place. As important as offering universal healthcare is bringing the cost of the healtcare we get down. How that would be done depends on how far politicians are willing to go to make an impact.

 

[Avatar4321]

......and stop lying.

Barack Obama - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The truth huh? You expect us to find the truth in Wikipedia? Oy!

Who the heck is lying?

 

[Chris]

The truth huh? You expect us to find the truth in Wikipedia? Oy!

Who the heck is lying?

You.

 

[Inferno]

Wikipedia? I hardly expect perfect information from that site. You can't use them as a source on a term paper in high school. That shows hoe reliable they are.

 

[chapstic]

You.

i'm still waiting for you tell me if it's ok to support the kkk?

 

[chopcrazy]

What folks pay for a premium with universal healthcare would depend on what funding mechanisms was used to achieve it. This is Obama's proposal:
Barack Obama | Change We Can Believe In | Health Care

Folks seem concerned about what they will pay under a universal healthcare system but we are already paying the most money for healthcare of any
country in the world while at the same time being ranked about 37th in the care we get..

Obama's plan appears to reallocate who pays the premiums. If you have no insurance now, his plan sounds like you will have to start paying. If you are paying now; then your premiums would go down. I do not understand how you will get people who cannot afford insurance now to start paying. The only way is to subsidize those who can't pay with those who can. Who pays the subsidy if that be the case?

As for what costs will drop, my guess is it would depend on what regulations were put in place. As important as offering universal healthcare is bringing the cost of the healtcare we get down. How that would be done depends on how far politicians are willing to go to make an impact.

This to me is the crux of the whole health care costs have skyrocketed mantra. To me premiums do not equate to health care costs. Has there been a study that discusses the trend of hospital health care expenditures? For instance are wage increases driven by the shortage of medical staff? What impact does this have on hospital expenditures? What is the impact of living longer doing to medical costs? Medical technology has helped people live longer due to procedures that once were impossible are now possible or rare but have become routine; there is an associated cost.

Obama says the premiums have risen 87% over 10 years. But if you look at an annual basis, this equates to roughly 6.5% per year increase. This is not that much for an industry that has a labor shortage.

IMO, the premiums collected will not decrease unless the underlying costs decrease.