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Seems to me that hate crime laws were written for this exact type of case.
Seems to me that hate crime laws were written for this exact type of case.
Well, no, they aren't.
They are written for Richard Byrd being dragged behind a truck or Matt Shephard getting tied to a fence and lit on fire. Someone being singled out for something and getting more brutally treated.
Incidently, the system did just fine at punishing the guys who did this without hate crime laws in those states. Byrd's murderers got the death penalty, and Shephard's got life in prison after the victim's mother pled for their lives.. So those laws weren't really needed.
This is the case of a mean-spirited college prank that got out of hand and an emotionally unstable young man over-reacting. While this is often the backstory of a bad b-grade horror movies, it's hardly a federal case.
The infraction was not the video taping. It was the distribution of the tape.I would like to voice my opinion on the Rutgers Homosexual hate crimes case. And, I would like for you to voice your honest opinion too.
I find it to be insane that a jury would find Dharum Ravi guilty of bullying Tyler Clementi.
The dorm room is not a private place if you are sharing it with someone else. Tyler Clementi violated Dharum Ravi's privacy by having anal sex with another man in the dorm room they both had to share. Mr. Clementi totally disregarded the privacy of Dharum Ravi by having sex in the dorm room in the first place. And, I am sure the university has rules concerning the conduct of students living in the dorm, and sharing rooms.
How would you like to come back to your dorm room after a long day of studing, and have to smell the lingering anal odor after your roommate had been having anal sex with another man in the room you had to share with him. And, I would have put a hidden camera in the room to find out if they were having sex on my bed, or in my area of the room. What Mr. Clementi did was immoral and unsanitary in the first place. And, guys this young are still insecure in their sexuality and the last thing they need is to have to deal with this type of incident-because they never deal with it the right way. How would you like to come back to your room, and your gay roomate and his male lover are eyeballing you the way a girl would, or you are having to watch them french kiss and grab at each others private areas, and moan and carry on. I think you would have felt just as uncomfortable as Mr. Ravi, and probably would have sought some kind of revenge too.
Mr. Clementi was at the university to study, not to be having anal sex with another man in the dorm room. He knew that there would be some kind of negative consequences of his own immoral and disrespectful actions, and should have had enough common respect to either go to a hotel, get a private room first, or get an apartment before engaging in this type of behavior. It seems that he is being treated like the victim, with total disregard for what he did that led up to this incident in the first place. And, just because he was homosexual, and just because he killed himself does not mean that he should not be held accountable for his own immoral actions, and lack of respect and privacy for his roommate.
No, Mr. Ravi did not handle the situation appropriately, but, he should not serve any time in jail, nor be deported, because the punishment does not fit the crime. I think he should be reinstated at school, and be made to do a little community service. However, his entire life and his chance at a good college education should not be ruined. Mr. Clementi took his own life, and I am sure that if prosecutors dug deeper into his background, they would find that he had other more pressing problems that would have led to him taking his own
life. Unfortunately, this incident was his breaking point, but he is ultimately to blame for taking his own life. He was not secure in his own sexuality, and should have taken better precautions in keeping his sexual orientation private until he was mature enough to deal with the backlash of being homosexual. He should never have had sex in the dorm room in the first place. If he were living with his parents, I am sure he would not have disrespected them by having anal sex with his male lover in their house.
Oh boy...Here we go..Just because gay sex exists and the PC crowd has determined gay people to be a protected class, does not mean we must be forced to find their behavior to be acceptable.I would like to voice my opinion on the Rutgers Homosexual hate crimes case. And, I would like for you to voice your honest opinion too.
I find it to be insane that a jury would find Dharum Ravi guilty of bullying Tyler Clementi.
The dorm room is not a private place if you are sharing it with someone else. Tyler Clementi violated Dharum Ravi's privacy by having anal sex with another man in the dorm room they both had to share. Mr. Clementi totally disregarded the privacy of Dharum Ravi by having sex in the dorm room in the first place. And, I am sure the university has rules concerning the conduct of students living in the dorm, and sharing rooms.
How would you like to come back to your dorm room after a long day of studing, and have to smell the lingering anal odor after your roommate had been having anal sex with another man in the room you had to share with him. And, I would have put a hidden camera in the room to find out if they were having sex on my bed, or in my area of the room. What Mr. Clementi did was immoral and unsanitary in the first place. And, guys this young are still insecure in their sexuality and the last thing they need is to have to deal with this type of incident-because they never deal with it the right way. How would you like to come back to your room, and your gay roomate and his male lover are eyeballing you the way a girl would, or you are having to watch them french kiss and grab at each others private areas, and moan and carry on. I think you would have felt just as uncomfortable as Mr. Ravi, and probably would have sought some kind of revenge too.
Mr. Clementi was at the university to study, not to be having anal sex with another man in the dorm room. He knew that there would be some kind of negative consequences of his own immoral and disrespectful actions, and should have had enough common respect to either go to a hotel, get a private room first, or get an apartment before engaging in this type of behavior. It seems that he is being treated like the victim, with total disregard for what he did that led up to this incident in the first place. And, just because he was homosexual, and just because he killed himself does not mean that he should not be held accountable for his own immoral actions, and lack of respect and privacy for his roommate.
No, Mr. Ravi did not handle the situation appropriately, but, he should not serve any time in jail, nor be deported, because the punishment does not fit the crime. I think he should be reinstated at school, and be made to do a little community service. However, his entire life and his chance at a good college education should not be ruined. Mr. Clementi took his own life, and I am sure that if prosecutors dug deeper into his background, they would find that he had other more pressing problems that would have led to him taking his own
life. Unfortunately, this incident was his breaking point, but he is ultimately to blame for taking his own life. He was not secure in his own sexuality, and should have taken better precautions in keeping his sexual orientation private until he was mature enough to deal with the backlash of being homosexual. He should never have had sex in the dorm room in the first place. If he were living with his parents, I am sure he would not have disrespected them by having anal sex with his male lover in their house.
Just one question, would you feel the same way if the roommate was having sex with a woman instead of a man?
There is a certain expectation of privacy even when you are sharing a dorm room. Supposing the guy was just jacking off? Do you think he doesn't have a right to do that in his own room when his roommate isn't there? Do you really believe his roommate has the right to watch him on camera when he thinks he's alone?
Seems to me that hate crime laws were written for this exact type of case.
Well, no, they aren't.
They are written for Richard Byrd being dragged behind a truck or Matt Shephard getting tied to a fence and lit on fire. Someone being singled out for something and getting more brutally treated.
Incidently, the system did just fine at punishing the guys who did this without hate crime laws in those states. Byrd's murderers got the death penalty, and Shephard's got life in prison after the victim's mother pled for their lives.. So those laws weren't really needed.
This is the case of a mean-spirited college prank that got out of hand and an emotionally unstable young man over-reacting. While this is often the backstory of a bad b-grade horror movies, it's hardly a federal case.
And the sentence for making such a stupid statement should be?I'm only peripherally aware of this case ... you mean that he was offered that and chose to go to trial instead ????? Seriously ?????I think what this guy did was wrong, but 10 years in prison is an overreach.
The victims decision to kill himself was his own decision, really. He could have filed a complaint with the university, and gotten this guy expelled. He could have sued him for a shitload of money. He killed himself instead. Suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem.
Originally, the prosecutors offered 600 community service and probation, but the accused in this case didnt' go for it. Now he's going to get ten years in prison and will probably be anally raped a few times? That seems like a bit of an overreach.
Hell. He deserves 10 years for being so damned stupid.
I think that a sentence of 10 years would be excessive for Ravi, who was not charged with any complicity in Clementi's death. However, it's difficult to blame the prosecutors for this, since they offered Ravi a deal in which he would have served no prison time. This seems to have been a grave misjudgement on his part, at least if the threat of deportation was as remote as it seemed.
I would like to voice my opinion on the Rutgers Homosexual hate crimes case. And, I would like for you to voice your honest opinion too.
I find it to be insane that a jury would find Dharum Ravi guilty of bullying Tyler Clementi.
The dorm room is not a private place if you are sharing it with someone else. Tyler Clementi violated Dharum Ravi's privacy by having anal sex with another man in the dorm room they both had to share. Mr. Clementi totally disregarded the privacy of Dharum Ravi by having sex in the dorm room in the first place. And, I am sure the university has rules concerning the conduct of students living in the dorm, and sharing rooms.
How would you like to come back to your dorm room after a long day of studing, and have to smell the lingering anal odor after your roommate had been having anal sex with another man in the room you had to share with him. And, I would have put a hidden camera in the room to find out if they were having sex on my bed, or in my area of the room. What Mr. Clementi did was immoral and unsanitary in the first place. And, guys this young are still insecure in their sexuality and the last thing they need is to have to deal with this type of incident-because they never deal with it the right way. How would you like to come back to your room, and your gay roomate and his male lover are eyeballing you the way a girl would, or you are having to watch them french kiss and grab at each others private areas, and moan and carry on. I think you would have felt just as uncomfortable as Mr. Ravi, and probably would have sought some kind of revenge too.
Mr. Clementi was at the university to study, not to be having anal sex with another man in the dorm room. He knew that there would be some kind of negative consequences of his own immoral and disrespectful actions, and should have had enough common respect to either go to a hotel, get a private room first, or get an apartment before engaging in this type of behavior. It seems that he is being treated like the victim, with total disregard for what he did that led up to this incident in the first place. And, just because he was homosexual, and just because he killed himself does not mean that he should not be held accountable for his own immoral actions, and lack of respect and privacy for his roommate.
No, Mr. Ravi did not handle the situation appropriately, but, he should not serve any time in jail, nor be deported, because the punishment does not fit the crime. I think he should be reinstated at school, and be made to do a little community service. However, his entire life and his chance at a good college education should not be ruined. Mr. Clementi took his own life, and I am sure that if prosecutors dug deeper into his background, they would find that he had other more pressing problems that would have led to him taking his own
life. Unfortunately, this incident was his breaking point, but he is ultimately to blame for taking his own life. He was not secure in his own sexuality, and should have taken better precautions in keeping his sexual orientation private until he was mature enough to deal with the backlash of being homosexual. He should never have had sex in the dorm room in the first place. If he were living with his parents, I am sure he would not have disrespected them by having anal sex with his male lover in their house.
I would like to voice my opinion on the Rutgers Homosexual hate crimes case. And, I would like for you to voice your honest opinion too.
I find it to be insane that a jury would find Dharum Ravi guilty of bullying Tyler Clementi.
The dorm room is not a private place if you are sharing it with someone else. Tyler Clementi violated Dharum Ravi's privacy by having anal sex with another man in the dorm room they both had to share. Mr. Clementi totally disregarded the privacy of Dharum Ravi by having sex in the dorm room in the first place. And, I am sure the university has rules concerning the conduct of students living in the dorm, and sharing rooms.
How would you like to come back to your dorm room after a long day of studing, and have to smell the lingering anal odor after your roommate had been having anal sex with another man in the room you had to share with him. And, I would have put a hidden camera in the room to find out if they were having sex on my bed, or in my area of the room. What Mr. Clementi did was immoral and unsanitary in the first place. And, guys this young are still insecure in their sexuality and the last thing they need is to have to deal with this type of incident-because they never deal with it the right way. How would you like to come back to your room, and your gay roomate and his male lover are eyeballing you the way a girl would, or you are having to watch them french kiss and grab at each others private areas, and moan and carry on. I think you would have felt just as uncomfortable as Mr. Ravi, and probably would have sought some kind of revenge too.
Mr. Clementi was at the university to study, not to be having anal sex with another man in the dorm room. He knew that there would be some kind of negative consequences of his own immoral and disrespectful actions, and should have had enough common respect to either go to a hotel, get a private room first, or get an apartment before engaging in this type of behavior. It seems that he is being treated like the victim, with total disregard for what he did that led up to this incident in the first place. And, just because he was homosexual, and just because he killed himself does not mean that he should not be held accountable for his own immoral actions, and lack of respect and privacy for his roommate.
No, Mr. Ravi did not handle the situation appropriately, but, he should not serve any time in jail, nor be deported, because the punishment does not fit the crime. I think he should be reinstated at school, and be made to do a little community service. However, his entire life and his chance at a good college education should not be ruined. Mr. Clementi took his own life, and I am sure that if prosecutors dug deeper into his background, they would find that he had other more pressing problems that would have led to him taking his own
life. Unfortunately, this incident was his breaking point, but he is ultimately to blame for taking his own life. He was not secure in his own sexuality, and should have taken better precautions in keeping his sexual orientation private until he was mature enough to deal with the backlash of being homosexual. He should never have had sex in the dorm room in the first place. If he were living with his parents, I am sure he would not have disrespected them by having anal sex with his male lover in their house.
I would like to voice my opinion on the Rutgers Homosexual hate crimes case. And, I would like for you to voice your honest opinion too.
I find it to be insane that a jury would find Dharum Ravi guilty...
They committed a felony against their roomie and their ciminal intention was to socially and publically humiliate thier VICTIM.
He was so mortified by their little prank that he killed himself.
They clearly only set out to murder the kid socially.
What do you think the punishment ought to be for such behavior?
Was their nasty little prank just good clean fun?
Or was their motive so foul that they deserve to have THEIR SOCIAL STANDING destroyed?
And if that is the retribution they deserve then how does this society destroy the social standing of these criminals?
We're being a little melodramatic this morning, aren't we?
Point was, if this kid hadn't killed himself, this maybe would have resulted in an expulsion or MAYBE they'd have reassigned roommates. (The person who really should have been punished was the idiot who assigned these two to the same room.)
I have a hard time punishing someone criminally for a secondary action that he may or may not have been able to foresee.
Civilly, I'd have no problem if the kid's family took him to court and took him for everything he had.
We're being a little melodramatic this morning, aren't we?
Maybe.
What should we call it when people set out to make a person a social pariah?
Yeah that's true.
And when a drunk driver ger arrested BEFORE he kills somebody he ONLY gets charged with druhkk driving.
But if he kills somebody while drunk the charge is vehicular homocide.
See? That's how our law works. If during the commission of a crime, somebody gets hurt the perps are held responsible for the unintended outcome that resulted from their CRIME.
Civilly, I'd have no problem if the kid's family took him to court and took him for everything he had.
That's nice. But the money cannot replace the kid the family lost.
For Rutgers law professor Laura Cohen, who specializes in criminal and juvenile justice law, the explanation by Ferreira seemed compelling.
"(Ravi) knew what (he) was getting into the second time; there were texts that I guess were sent the second time that connected the decision to do it the second time to the fact that there was a man in the room" with Clementi.
Still, Cohen saw possible pitfalls with the prosecutions case. She wondered what would have happened if Clementis guest had been a woman.
"If he had set up the webcam (with a girl in the room), would this prosecution have ever had happened?" she said.
She also noted that there was no video posted on the Web of Clementis encounter with the other man; there was no act of violence; there was no direct homophobic remarks made by Ravi to Clementi.
"So the question is: Whether the decision to charge the case this way is going to lead to a disproportionate punishment for what Ravi did," Cohen said.
