Please Give your Honest Opinion on The Rutgers Homosexual Hate Case.

[syrenn]

This case would have been nothing if it had been a roommate spying on his heterosexual partner and streaming it. [/COLOR]

Nothing to the national media, but it should have resulted in the same punishment.

He was given more time becasue it was classed a "hate crime" That is not the same punishment as everyone else gets.

 

[NYcarbineer]

I think what this guy did was wrong, but 10 years in prison is an overreach.

.

He was offered a plea deal with no jail time and turned it down.

Still not an excuse for Prosecutorial Overreach and abusive laws.

What he actually DID doesn't merit any time in prison. Fines, community service. Yeah, got no problem with that. A felony conviction that will follow him around for the rest of his life, maybe not.

If Clementi hadn't killed himself, would you have advocated such a stiff sentence, or even a prosecution?

He's being prosecuted for things that weren't even in his control. We weren't even entirely sure this was the actual cause of the suicide. His suicide note hasn't been made public and the Judge ruled it had no bearing on the case.

Rutgers Spying Verdict: Dharun Ravi found guilty of invading the privacy of Tyler Clementi - Slate Magazine

In fact, Tyler Clementi had come out to his parents before starting at Rutgers in the fall of 2010, and we still don’t know why he killed himself. The suicide note he left behind, along with three Word documents with telltale names—“Gah.docx,” “sorry.docx,” and “Why is everything so painful.docx”—weren’t turned over to the defense or made public. (According to the judge, they weren’t directly relevant to the case against Ravi.)

His privacy invasion merited jail.

 

[Peach]

I agree with everything you said.

But his case is not about that. Its about the victim being gay and turning this all into a hate crime.

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NO, also about WITNESS TAMPERING, OBSTRUCTION OF PROSECUTION (similar to obstruction of justice), and DESTRUCTION OF EVIDENCE. I gather you find these crimes acceptable. Dharum Ravi can get time just for these.

Where do i say anything about it being acceptable?

This case would have been nothing if it had been a roommate spying on his heterosexual
partner and streaming it.

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That might depend on the roommate I think; but 15 convictions means a convinced jury. Don't worry, that poor persecuted convicted young man is appealing. His violent reaction to the verdict verdict will not be evidence. No picture of the VICTIM posted, it should be in one of my links. JUST SORROW OVER THE "STUDENT'S" ruined life.....................this was not an isolated event. Dharum Ravi waged a CAMPAIGN, AND was an alien resident; where are all the anti immigration posters bewailing this crime by a non US citizen in the US?

 

[kaz]

This case would have been nothing if it had been a roommate spying on his heterosexual partner and streaming it. [/COLOR]

Nothing to the national media, but it should have resulted in the same punishment.

He was given more time becasue it was classed a "hate crime" That is not the same punishment as everyone else gets.

I understand that. But I said "should have" not "would have." I totally oppose the concept of hate crimes. If crimes aren't sufficiently punished, everyone should get the same increased protection of the law, not just privileged victims. If someone commits a crime, what difference does it make what they were thinking at the time?

 

[JoeB131]

I think what this guy did was wrong, but 10 years in prison is an overreach.

.

He was offered a plea deal with no jail time and turned it down.

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For WITNESS TAMPERING, DESTRUCTION OF EVIDENCE, AND OBSTRUCTION OF PROSECUTION, BIAS CRIME, and INVASION OF PRIVACY? Clementi's parent are to be admired for their boundless forgiveness in the matter, but D. Ravi's crime(S) require stiff punishment. As he has no priors, 10 I believe is too much; I would not be horrified at 1 year county detention center, IF the Judge finds meaningful mitigation*, but will be if he does not go in for some period of time. CHAINS on this guy NOW. After 15 crimes, can any decent person doubt he is not likely to do this to someone else? The individual might be not be gay, they could be a co worker he has a grudge against, a lover who spurned him, etc.?

* D. Ravi may exhibit true remorse, take action to correct his wrongs, or there may be mitigation not yet known to the public. Still, the automatic sympathy for the convict is repulsive.

Okay, let's take that one apart.

Witness Tampering, etc. Hello. He deleted some tweets. This is hardly the Watergate break-in. I find it amusing that some of the same liberals who get on here and defended Clinton's various actions in all things Lewinsky are now vigorous defenders of the judicial process. (Not saying you're a liberal, Peach, but on the Conservative side, there were those who defended Scooter Libby in much the same way.)

Invasion of privacy? He shared a room with the guy. Now, I think if you want to needlessly prosecute anyone, they ought to prosecute the person who showed the judgement of a reality show producer in putting these two in the same dorm room.

Bias Crime- In short, his crime affected a "protected" class of citizen. And that's the problem here. This would have never gone so far if he was straight and they filmed him doing his girlfriend, would it?

The only reason why he was prosecuted was because Clementi died. And Clementi killed himself.

 

[syrenn]

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NO, also about WITNESS TAMPERING, OBSTRUCTION OF PROSECUTION (similar to obstruction of justice), and DESTRUCTION OF EVIDENCE. I gather you find these crimes acceptable. Dharum Ravi can get time just for these.

Where do i say anything about it being acceptable?

This case would have been nothing if it had been a roommate spying on his heterosexual
partner and streaming it.

*******************************************
That might depend on the roommate I think; but 15 convictions means a convinced jury. Don't worry, that poor persecuted convicted young man is appealing. His violent reaction to the verdict verdict will not be evidence. No picture of the VICTIM posted, it should be in one of my links. JUST SORROW OVER THE "STUDENT'S" ruined life.....................this was not an isolated event. Dharum Ravi waged a CAMPAIGN, AND was an alien resident; where are all the anti immigration posters bewailing this crime by a non US citizen in the US?

I could care less about the poor convicted roomate. Should he be punished..yes. Should he be deported... of course.

He should however get the same slap on the wrist as everyone other frat boy gets when pulling the same stunt on their heterosexual roommates.

 

[kaz]

Okay, let's take that one apart.

Witness Tampering, etc. Hello. He deleted some tweets. This is hardly the Watergate break-in. I find it amusing that some of the same liberals who get on here and defended Clinton's various actions in all things Lewinsky are now vigorous defenders of the judicial process. (Not saying you're a liberal, Peach, but on the Conservative side, there were those who defended Scooter Libby in much the same way.)

Invasion of privacy? He shared a room with the guy. Now, I think if you want to needlessly prosecute anyone, they ought to prosecute the person who showed the judgement of a reality show producer in putting these two in the same dorm room.

Bias Crime- In short, his crime affected a "protected" class of citizen. And that's the problem here. This would have never gone so far if he was straight and they filmed him doing his girlfriend, would it?

The only reason why he was prosecuted was because Clementi died. And Clementi killed himself.

I didn't follow it that closely Joe. So was he Mormon or Jewish? Or do you just hate fags too? Or is it some other group you hate I haven't come across yet...

 

[Peach]

The jury heard the case not me, I'm thinking they did the right thing.

I never trust the judgement of 12 people too stupid to get out of Jury Duty.

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That explains a lot; I PRAY YOU NEVER SERVE ON ONE. As for the other comment about "slap on the wrist", FIFTEEN CONVICTIONS usually draws more of a sentence. The many crimes committed after the actual BIAS crime are all crimes most citizen can be charged with. I take WITNESS TAMPERING, DESTRUCTION OF EVIDENCE, and OBSTRUCTING THE PROSECUTION seriously. (Destruction of evidence comes after the crime, often after one is charged, in most cases. If NJ law says otherwise this may be a weak one on appeal.) The tears for the man who was so cruelly prosecuted should lessen. The dirtbag has appealed.

 

[JoeB131]

I didn't follow it that closely Joe. ...

Of course not. Because you are some kind of low-functioning retard.

Frankly, you read things that aren't there because I honestly doubt you can comprehend the things that ARE there, plainly written.

 

[JoeB131]

Invasion of privacy- maybe?

I don't think he broadcast it over the internet, I think he accessed his webcam via the internet which is not the same thing.

I'd like to know who the older guy was, and why he didn't testify; i'd be freaked out too if my roomate was bringing in an older guy or woman that I didn't know and told me I had to leave my room.

You'd think the older guy could afford a hotel or maybe have his own house where they could play hide the sausage.

 

[Peach]

Invasion of privacy- maybe?

I don't think he broadcast it over the internet, I think he accessed his webcam via the internet which is not the same thing.

I'd like to know who the older guy was, and why he didn't testify; i'd be freaked out too if my roomate was bringing in an older guy or woman that I didn't know and told me I had to leave my room.

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So "freaked out" you would be planning more WEB CAM PARTIES? Freaked out enough to email, use Twitter, and talk about it with friends? AND plan crimes to cover your tracks? Why was it the victim that wanted to get away from the scumbag, and the scumbag stayed?

 

[JoeB131]

The jury heard the case not me, I'm thinking they did the right thing.

I never trust the judgement of 12 people too stupid to get out of Jury Duty.

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That explains a lot; I PRAY YOU NEVER SERVE ON ONE. As for the other comment about "slap on the wrist", FIFTEEN CONVICTIONS usually draws more of a sentence. The many crimes committed after the actual BIAS crime are all crimes most citizen can be charged with. I take WITNESS TAMPERING, DESTRUCTION OF EVIDENCE, and OBSTRUCTING THE PROSECUTION seriously. (Destruction of evidence comes after the crime, often after one is charged, in most cases. If NJ law says otherwise this may be a weak one on appeal.) The tears for the man who was so cruelly prosecuted should lessen. The dirtbag has appealed.

Lawyer friend of mine said when you are pleading emotion, you go in front of a jury. When you are pleading the law, you go in front of a judge.

This isn't so much a matter of law as it was making a police matter out of a college prank.

Ravi didn't kill anyone. Clementi killed himself, and we REALLY DON'T KNOW WHY.

I want to emphasize this again. The Judge did not let the Defense or the Public see his suicide note.

Now, if you have something in the suicide note that implicated this really was the last straw, you MAYBE have a strong civil case, but not a criminal one. Not unless you are stretching, but hell, you could give out the death penalty for jaywalking with that kind of thinking.

 

[KevinWestern]

I would like to voice my opinion on the Rutgers Homosexual hate crimes case. And, I would like for you to voice your honest opinion too.

I'm a full supporter of gay marriage, and have nothing but genuine respect for the gay community, but I think this sentence is a bit harsh.

Hate crime? Come on. This wasn't a hate crime. Tying someone to the back of the truck, and dragging them until they die is a hate crime. Spray painting "fag" on that person's door or home, that's a hate crime. But videotaping your roommate making out with someone, in college, that's not a hate crime.

College kids do stupid shit like this all the time, and 99% of it (including this case) is not because of malicious intent, but rather immaturity and stupidity.

Also, I think Clementi's suicide had much deeper roots than just the webcam incident. What about his mom disowning him? Doesn't the jury think that might have anything to do with Clementi's self hatred towards his identity? Wasn't that a "hate crime" on the part of his mom?

 

[JoeB131]

I would like to voice my opinion on the Rutgers Homosexual hate crimes case. And, I would like for you to voice your honest opinion too.

I'm a full supporter of gay marriage, and have nothing but genuine respect for the gay community, but I think this sentence is a bit harsh.

Hate crime? Come on. This wasn't a hate crime. Tying someone to the back of the truck, and dragging them until they die is a hate crime. Spray painting "fag" on that person's door or home, that's a hate crime. But videotaping your roommate making out with someone, in college, that's not a hate crime.

College kids do stupid shit like this all the time, and 99% of it (including this case) is not because of malicious intent, but rather immaturity and stupidity.

Also, I think Clementi's suicide had much deeper roots than just the webcam incident. What about his mom disowning him? Doesn't the jury think that might have anything to do with Clementi's self hatred towards his identity? Wasn't that a "hate crime" on the part of his mom?

Well said.

I think the problem is when you look for someone to prosecute to send a bigger political message, you almost always end up some travesty of justice.

 

[Peach]

I would like to voice my opinion on the Rutgers Homosexual hate crimes case. And, I would like for you to voice your honest opinion too.

I'm a full supporter of gay marriage, and have nothing but genuine respect for the gay community, but I think this sentence is a bit harsh.

Hate crime? Come on. This wasn't a hate crime. Tying someone to the back of the truck, and dragging them until they die is a hate crime. Spray painting "fag" on that person's door or home, that's a hate crime. But videotaping your roommate making out with someone, in college, that's not a hate crime.

College kids do stupid shit like this all the time, and 99% of it (including this case) is not because of malicious intent, but rather immaturity and stupidity.

Also, I think Clementi's suicide had much deeper roots than just the webcam incident. What about his mom disowning him? Doesn't the jury think that might have anything to do with Clementi's self hatred towards his identity? Wasn't that a "hate crime" on the part of his mom?

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The convict also used Twitter, emails and written communications to disparage the victim. The convict committed more crimes after the one web cam "show"; he planned a second, larger viewing and threatened the victim. AOK with you I gather.

 

[Peach]

I would like to voice my opinion on the Rutgers Homosexual hate crimes case. And, I would like for you to voice your honest opinion too.

I'm a full supporter of gay marriage, and have nothing but genuine respect for the gay community, but I think this sentence is a bit harsh.

Hate crime? Come on. This wasn't a hate crime. Tying someone to the back of the truck, and dragging them until they die is a hate crime. Spray painting "fag" on that person's door or home, that's a hate crime. But videotaping your roommate making out with someone, in college, that's not a hate crime.

College kids do stupid shit like this all the time, and 99% of it (including this case) is not because of malicious intent, but rather immaturity and stupidity.

Also, I think Clementi's suicide had much deeper roots than just the webcam incident. What about his mom disowning him? Doesn't the jury think that might have anything to do with Clementi's self hatred towards his identity? Wasn't that a "hate crime" on the part of his mom?

Well said.

I think the problem is when you look for someone to prosecute to send a bigger political message, you almost always end up some travesty of justice.

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FIFTEEN convictions is "looking for someone to prosecute". Is your probation officer giving you a tough time, threatening revocation? What groups of people do you not hate? And, EVEN IF you are not guilty of a crime, TAMPERING WITH WITNESSES remains a crime, as does OBSTRUCTION , and DESTRUCTION. If the scumbag has only the hate crime overturned on appeal, what should he get for the other crimes? NOTE: he is not a US citizen.

 

[JoeB131]

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The convict also used Twitter, emails and written communications to disparage the victim. The convict committed more crimes after the one web cam "show"; he planned a second, larger viewing and threatened the victim. AOK with you I gather.

Wow. He called him bad names on the internet? REally?

man, that's the crime of the century...

Hey, I think there's another conspiracy where people are committing the horrid crime of saying bad things about other people.


It's called "USMB".

 

[bodecea]

I would like to voice my opinion on the Rutgers Homosexual hate crimes case. And, I would like for you to voice your honest opinion too.

I find it to be insane that a jury would find Dharum Ravi guilty of bullying Tyler Clementi.

The dorm room is not a private place if you are sharing it with someone else. Tyler Clementi violated Dharum Ravi's privacy by having anal sex with another man in the dorm room they both had to share. Mr. Clementi totally disregarded the privacy of Dharum Ravi by having sex in the dorm room in the first place. And, I am sure the university has rules concerning the conduct of students living in the dorm, and sharing rooms.

How would you like to come back to your dorm room after a long day of studing, and have to smell the lingering anal odor after your roommate had been having anal sex with another man in the room you had to share with him. And, I would have put a hidden camera in the room to find out if they were having sex on my bed, or in my area of the room. What Mr. Clementi did was immoral and unsanitary in the first place. And, guys this young are still insecure in their sexuality and the last thing they need is to have to deal with this type of incident-because they never deal with it the right way. How would you like to come back to your room, and your gay roomate and his male lover are eyeballing you the way a girl would, or you are having to watch them french kiss and grab at each others private areas, and moan and carry on. I think you would have felt just as uncomfortable as Mr. Ravi, and probably would have sought some kind of revenge too.

Mr. Clementi was at the university to study, not to be having anal sex with another man in the dorm room. He knew that there would be some kind of negative consequences of his own immoral and disrespectful actions, and should have had enough common respect to either go to a hotel, get a private room first, or get an apartment before engaging in this type of behavior. It seems that he is being treated like the victim, with total disregard for what he did that led up to this incident in the first place. And, just because he was homosexual, and just because he killed himself does not mean that he should not be held accountable for his own immoral actions, and lack of respect and privacy for his roommate.

No, Mr. Ravi did not handle the situation appropriately, but, he should not serve any time in jail, nor be deported, because the punishment does not fit the crime. I think he should be reinstated at school, and be made to do a little community service. However, his entire life and his chance at a good college education should not be ruined. Mr. Clementi took his own life, and I am sure that if prosecutors dug deeper into his background, they would find that he had other more pressing problems that would have led to him taking his own
life. Unfortunately, this incident was his breaking point, but he is ultimately to blame for taking his own life. He was not secure in his own sexuality, and should have taken better precautions in keeping his sexual orientation private until he was mature enough to deal with the backlash of being homosexual. He should never have had sex in the dorm room in the first place. If he were living with his parents, I am sure he would not have disrespected them by having anal sex with his male lover in their house.

Just one question, would you feel the same way if the roommate was having sex with a woman instead of a man?

There is a certain expectation of privacy even when you are sharing a dorm room. Supposing the guy was just jacking off? Do you think he doesn't have a right to do that in his own room when his roommate isn't there? Do you really believe his roommate has the right to watch him on camera when he thinks he's alone?

I agree with everything you said.

But his case is not about that. Its about the victim being gay and turning this all into a hate crime.

No...have you even read the trial info?

 

[JoeB131]

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FIFTEEN convictions is "looking for someone to prosecute". Is your probation officer giving you a tough time, threatening revocation? What groups of people do you not hate? And, EVEN IF you are not guilty of a crime, TAMPERING WITH WITNESSES remains a crime, as does OBSTRUCTION , and DESTRUCTION. If the scumbag has only the hate crime overturned on appeal, what should he get for the other crimes? NOTE: he is not a US citizen.

Oh, he's not a US Citizen. then we totally need to go after him, then?

Not sure why you are implying I have a probation officer. I've never had anything more serious than a traffic ticket. I also have a box full of medals the Army was nice enough to give me for my outstanding citizenship, but that's another story.

Here's the problem. If this Clementi kid had not killed himself, the police wouldn't have wasted five minutes with this issue.

But no one has presented a bit of evidence that he killed himself because of this issue, and even if he did, that's still completely on him.

 

[saveliberty]

Seems to me that hate crime laws were written for this exact type of case.