Please Give your Honest Opinion on The Rutgers Homosexual Hate Case.

[chanel]

Start another thread.

This is an important issue to those of us who are concerned about bullying, gays, hate crimes, and stupid teenagers with web cams.

In response to Clementi's suicide, the state of NJ has enacted the strictest anti-bullying legislation in the country - which will be challenged (and overturned IMHO) in the very near future. Coming soon to a state near you.

 

[Peach]

The bias charge was bullshit. Opponents of hate crime laws argue that they are used inappropriately whenever a member of a "protected class" of people is a victim of a crime. I disagreed with this position until now. They were right.

There was no "hate" involved. The boyS were friendly. The most that was proven was that he was "uncomfortable" with a gay roommate. Guess what? A MAJORITY of 18 year old boys would be similarly uncomfortable at first. That is not hate. It is simply the ignorance of teens. College is supposed to mature them in 4 years, not 2 months. Lives ruined to make a point. PC BS on steroids.

So when did you get to view the evidence they had against him on the bias charge? Were you on the jury?

Sea, there was significant evidence, not just "thoughts" from jurors:

But for members of the jury, some of the most convincing evidence of Mr. Ravi’s guilt came from Mr. Clementi’s own complaints and online behavior after he learned of Mr. Ravi’s spying. And Mr. Clementi’s words echoed even more powerfully because he was not available to repeat them.

“It was pretty hard to think about Tyler, because he wasn’t present to give his thoughts,” said Kashad Leverett, 20, of South Amboy, N.J., after he and 11 other jurors delivered a guilty verdict on all charges, including invasion of privacy and bias intimidation, on Friday. “But in the evidence that was provided, it showed that he believed he was being intimidated because of his sexual orientation.”

It was a case with a pixelated paper trail seemingly like no other: Twitter feeds, Facebook posts, text messages, e-mails and other online chatter that together added up to a mountain of proof of Mr. Ravi’s guilt, some jurors said.

“Given the overwhelming amount of evidence, it’s awfully difficult to single out any one thing as the most damaging,” said Susan Matiejunas, 74, a retired state worker from Monroe Township.

Over two days of deliberations, jurors said the only count on which they agreed from the outset was the first, that of invading Mr. Clementi’s privacy the first time Mr. Ravi used his webcam to spy on him. “I would classify us as a tight jury,” said Lynn Audet, 45, a schoolteacher from Perth Amboy. “We all respected each other’s opinions, and we all had a turn to talk.”

Other charges were hotly debated but led fairly quickly to votes to convict on other charges, including evidence tampering and witness tampering, Ms. Audet said. “There were text messages missing from his phone but not missing from other persons’ phones,” she said.

The texts from Mr. Ravi to a prosecution witness, Molly Wei, while she was being questioned by the police were “what convinced me of tampering with a witness,” Ms. Audet said. Mr. Ravi was in Ms. Wei’s room when he turned on his webcam and briefly spied on Mr. Clementi.

The bias intimidation charges were the most difficult to agree upon, jurors said.

The other charges are ignored by the lovers of felons. There was NOT one incident, this is a criminal scheme. I believe, but do not know, that had a gay teenager done this to an adult straight, there would be more rational opinions. In QW 's first post is the amazing; the CRIMINAL is the "student", the victim, "the Homosexual".

For the "sympathy for CRIMINALS CROWD": Demjanjuk died today. Express your sorrow. Sarcasm by ME. Rough perhaps but the tone of many posters is worse than I have I seen in a awhile. NOT a THOUGHT crime, not ONE incident.

 

[NYcarbineer]

I think what this guy did was wrong, but 10 years in prison is an overreach.

.

He was offered a plea deal with no jail time and turned it down.

 

[Peach]

LINK:http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/17/n...nce-convinced-them-of-dharun-ravis-guilt.html

 

[saveliberty]

The jury heard the case not me, I'm thinking they did the right thing.

 

[Katzndogz]

There is a girl now suing the university she goes to because her roommate has frequent heterosexual sex without regard to whether the roomate wants to sleep, study or watch television. It's a wonder this girl hasn't streamed the encounters on the internet by now.

The Clementi case occurred because the roommates were incompatible and the school considers everyone equal. The school was going to FORCE these boys to get along no matter who got hurt or how.

That's where the problem is.

 

[OtaniKitano]

I would like to voice my opinion on the Rutgers Homosexual hate crimes case. And, I would like for you to voice your honest opinion too.

I find it to be insane that a jury would find Dharum Ravi guilty of bullying Tyler Clementi.

The dorm room is not a private place if you are sharing it with someone else. Tyler Clementi violated Dharum Ravi's privacy by having anal sex with another man in the dorm room they both had to share. Mr. Clementi totally disregarded the privacy of Dharum Ravi by having sex in the dorm room in the first place. And, I am sure the university has rules concerning the conduct of students living in the dorm, and sharing rooms.

How would you like to come back to your dorm room after a long day of studing, and have to smell the lingering anal odor after your roommate had been having anal sex with another man in the room you had to share with him. And, I would have put a hidden camera in the room to find out if they were having sex on my bed, or in my area of the room. What Mr. Clementi did was immoral and unsanitary in the first place. And, guys this young are still insecure in their sexuality and the last thing they need is to have to deal with this type of incident-because they never deal with it the right way. How would you like to come back to your room, and your gay roomate and his male lover are eyeballing you the way a girl would, or you are having to watch them french kiss and grab at each others private areas, and moan and carry on. I think you would have felt just as uncomfortable as Mr. Ravi, and probably would have sought some kind of revenge too.

Mr. Clementi was at the university to study, not to be having anal sex with another man in the dorm room. He knew that there would be some kind of negative consequences of his own immoral and disrespectful actions, and should have had enough common respect to either go to a hotel, get a private room first, or get an apartment before engaging in this type of behavior. It seems that he is being treated like the victim, with total disregard for what he did that led up to this incident in the first place. And, just because he was homosexual, and just because he killed himself does not mean that he should not be held accountable for his own immoral actions, and lack of respect and privacy for his roommate.

No, Mr. Ravi did not handle the situation appropriately, but, he should not serve any time in jail, nor be deported, because the punishment does not fit the crime. I think he should be reinstated at school, and be made to do a little community service. However, his entire life and his chance at a good college education should not be ruined. Mr. Clementi took his own life, and I am sure that if prosecutors dug deeper into his background, they would find that he had other more pressing problems that would have led to him taking his own
life. Unfortunately, this incident was his breaking point, but he is ultimately to blame for taking his own life. He was not secure in his own sexuality, and should have taken better precautions in keeping his sexual orientation private until he was mature enough to deal with the backlash of being homosexual. He should never have had sex in the dorm room in the first place. If he were living with his parents, I am sure he would not have disrespected them by having anal sex with his male lover in their house.

Just one question, would you feel the same way if the roommate was having sex with a woman instead of a man?

.....

Then let's add "...and then streamed the video live over the internet to millions of people?"

The verdict shows the confusion within the legal system to grapple with something that did not exist 20 years ago. "Invasion of privacy" takes on a whole new "Face"(book).

 

[Peach]

I think what this guy did was wrong, but 10 years in prison is an overreach.

.

He was offered a plea deal with no jail time and turned it down.

****************************************************
For WITNESS TAMPERING, DESTRUCTION OF EVIDENCE, AND OBSTRUCTION OF PROSECUTION, BIAS CRIME, and INVASION OF PRIVACY? Clementi's parent are to be admired for their boundless forgiveness in the matter, but D. Ravi's crime(S) require stiff punishment. As he has no priors, 10 I believe is too much; I would not be horrified at 1 year county detention center, IF the Judge finds meaningful mitigation*, but will be if he does not go in for some period of time. CHAINS on this guy NOW. After 15 crimes, can any decent person doubt he is not likely to do this to someone else? The individual might be not be gay, they could be a co worker he has a grudge against, a lover who spurned him, etc.?

* D. Ravi may exhibit true remorse, take action to correct his wrongs, or there may be mitigation not yet known to the public. Still, the automatic sympathy for the convict is repulsive.

 

[Political Junky]

What he did was disgusting. He should serve the ten years in the US, and then be deported back to India.

 

[Peach]

I would like to voice my opinion on the Rutgers Homosexual hate crimes case. And, I would like for you to voice your honest opinion too.

I find it to be insane that a jury would find Dharum Ravi guilty of bullying Tyler Clementi.

The dorm room is not a private place if you are sharing it with someone else. Tyler Clementi violated Dharum Ravi's privacy by having anal sex with another man in the dorm room they both had to share. Mr. Clementi totally disregarded the privacy of Dharum Ravi by having sex in the dorm room in the first place. And, I am sure the university has rules concerning the conduct of students living in the dorm, and sharing rooms.

How would you like to come back to your dorm room after a long day of studing, and have to smell the lingering anal odor after your roommate had been having anal sex with another man in the room you had to share with him. And, I would have put a hidden camera in the room to find out if they were having sex on my bed, or in my area of the room. What Mr. Clementi did was immoral and unsanitary in the first place. And, guys this young are still insecure in their sexuality and the last thing they need is to have to deal with this type of incident-because they never deal with it the right way. How would you like to come back to your room, and your gay roomate and his male lover are eyeballing you the way a girl would, or you are having to watch them french kiss and grab at each others private areas, and moan and carry on. I think you would have felt just as uncomfortable as Mr. Ravi, and probably would have sought some kind of revenge too.

Mr. Clementi was at the university to study, not to be having anal sex with another man in the dorm room. He knew that there would be some kind of negative consequences of his own immoral and disrespectful actions, and should have had enough common respect to either go to a hotel, get a private room first, or get an apartment before engaging in this type of behavior. It seems that he is being treated like the victim, with total disregard for what he did that led up to this incident in the first place. And, just because he was homosexual, and just because he killed himself does not mean that he should not be held accountable for his own immoral actions, and lack of respect and privacy for his roommate.

No, Mr. Ravi did not handle the situation appropriately, but, he should not serve any time in jail, nor be deported, because the punishment does not fit the crime. I think he should be reinstated at school, and be made to do a little community service. However, his entire life and his chance at a good college education should not be ruined. Mr. Clementi took his own life, and I am sure that if prosecutors dug deeper into his background, they would find that he had other more pressing problems that would have led to him taking his own
life. Unfortunately, this incident was his breaking point, but he is ultimately to blame for taking his own life. He was not secure in his own sexuality, and should have taken better precautions in keeping his sexual orientation private until he was mature enough to deal with the backlash of being homosexual. He should never have had sex in the dorm room in the first place. If he were living with his parents, I am sure he would not have disrespected them by having anal sex with his male lover in their house.

Just one question, would you feel the same way if the roommate was having sex with a woman instead of a man?

.....

Then let's add "...and then streamed the video live over the internet to millions of people?"

The verdict shows the confusion within the legal system to grapple with something that did not exist 20 years ago. "Invasion of privacy" takes on a whole new "Face"(book).

*****************************************************
The convict's reaction to the verdict seems typical of him; he kicked a can outside the courthouse, while angry. The death of the teenager appears no longer to be "interesting" to the sympathy for scum bags crowd. MULTIPLE publications by Dharum Ravi, not "he was uncomfortable." A campaign of intimidation and crimes. The so called "hate crime" was only the most serious in terms of sentence. OBSTRUCTION OF PROSECUTION, WITNESS TAMPERING, and many other offense the low life committed have been around since the beginnings of our nation.

Guilty verdict in Tyler Clementi trial to be appealed, says Dharun Ravi's lawyer | State | NewJerseyNewsroom.com -- Your State. Your News.

 

[syrenn]

I would like to voice my opinion on the Rutgers Homosexual hate crimes case. And, I would like for you to voice your honest opinion too.

I find it to be insane that a jury would find Dharum Ravi guilty of bullying Tyler Clementi.

The dorm room is not a private place if you are sharing it with someone else. Tyler Clementi violated Dharum Ravi's privacy by having anal sex with another man in the dorm room they both had to share. Mr. Clementi totally disregarded the privacy of Dharum Ravi by having sex in the dorm room in the first place. And, I am sure the university has rules concerning the conduct of students living in the dorm, and sharing rooms.

How would you like to come back to your dorm room after a long day of studing, and have to smell the lingering anal odor after your roommate had been having anal sex with another man in the room you had to share with him. And, I would have put a hidden camera in the room to find out if they were having sex on my bed, or in my area of the room. What Mr. Clementi did was immoral and unsanitary in the first place. And, guys this young are still insecure in their sexuality and the last thing they need is to have to deal with this type of incident-because they never deal with it the right way. How would you like to come back to your room, and your gay roomate and his male lover are eyeballing you the way a girl would, or you are having to watch them french kiss and grab at each others private areas, and moan and carry on. I think you would have felt just as uncomfortable as Mr. Ravi, and probably would have sought some kind of revenge too.

Mr. Clementi was at the university to study, not to be having anal sex with another man in the dorm room. He knew that there would be some kind of negative consequences of his own immoral and disrespectful actions, and should have had enough common respect to either go to a hotel, get a private room first, or get an apartment before engaging in this type of behavior. It seems that he is being treated like the victim, with total disregard for what he did that led up to this incident in the first place. And, just because he was homosexual, and just because he killed himself does not mean that he should not be held accountable for his own immoral actions, and lack of respect and privacy for his roommate.

No, Mr. Ravi did not handle the situation appropriately, but, he should not serve any time in jail, nor be deported, because the punishment does not fit the crime. I think he should be reinstated at school, and be made to do a little community service. However, his entire life and his chance at a good college education should not be ruined. Mr. Clementi took his own life, and I am sure that if prosecutors dug deeper into his background, they would find that he had other more pressing problems that would have led to him taking his own
life. Unfortunately, this incident was his breaking point, but he is ultimately to blame for taking his own life. He was not secure in his own sexuality, and should have taken better precautions in keeping his sexual orientation private until he was mature enough to deal with the backlash of being homosexual. He should never have had sex in the dorm room in the first place. If he were living with his parents, I am sure he would not have disrespected them by having anal sex with his male lover in their house.

Just one question, would you feel the same way if the roommate was having sex with a woman instead of a man?

There is a certain expectation of privacy even when you are sharing a dorm room. Supposing the guy was just jacking off? Do you think he doesn't have a right to do that in his own room when his roommate isn't there? Do you really believe his roommate has the right to watch him on camera when he thinks he's alone?

I agree with everything you said.

But his case is not about that. Its about the victim being gay and turning this all into a hate crime.

 

[Peach]

I would like to voice my opinion on the Rutgers Homosexual hate crimes case. And, I would like for you to voice your honest opinion too.

I find it to be insane that a jury would find Dharum Ravi guilty of bullying Tyler Clementi.

The dorm room is not a private place if you are sharing it with someone else. Tyler Clementi violated Dharum Ravi's privacy by having anal sex with another man in the dorm room they both had to share. Mr. Clementi totally disregarded the privacy of Dharum Ravi by having sex in the dorm room in the first place. And, I am sure the university has rules concerning the conduct of students living in the dorm, and sharing rooms.

How would you like to come back to your dorm room after a long day of studing, and have to smell the lingering anal odor after your roommate had been having anal sex with another man in the room you had to share with him. And, I would have put a hidden camera in the room to find out if they were having sex on my bed, or in my area of the room. What Mr. Clementi did was immoral and unsanitary in the first place. And, guys this young are still insecure in their sexuality and the last thing they need is to have to deal with this type of incident-because they never deal with it the right way. How would you like to come back to your room, and your gay roomate and his male lover are eyeballing you the way a girl would, or you are having to watch them french kiss and grab at each others private areas, and moan and carry on. I think you would have felt just as uncomfortable as Mr. Ravi, and probably would have sought some kind of revenge too.

Mr. Clementi was at the university to study, not to be having anal sex with another man in the dorm room. He knew that there would be some kind of negative consequences of his own immoral and disrespectful actions, and should have had enough common respect to either go to a hotel, get a private room first, or get an apartment before engaging in this type of behavior. It seems that he is being treated like the victim, with total disregard for what he did that led up to this incident in the first place. And, just because he was homosexual, and just because he killed himself does not mean that he should not be held accountable for his own immoral actions, and lack of respect and privacy for his roommate.

No, Mr. Ravi did not handle the situation appropriately, but, he should not serve any time in jail, nor be deported, because the punishment does not fit the crime. I think he should be reinstated at school, and be made to do a little community service. However, his entire life and his chance at a good college education should not be ruined. Mr. Clementi took his own life, and I am sure that if prosecutors dug deeper into his background, they would find that he had other more pressing problems that would have led to him taking his own
life. Unfortunately, this incident was his breaking point, but he is ultimately to blame for taking his own life. He was not secure in his own sexuality, and should have taken better precautions in keeping his sexual orientation private until he was mature enough to deal with the backlash of being homosexual. He should never have had sex in the dorm room in the first place. If he were living with his parents, I am sure he would not have disrespected them by having anal sex with his male lover in their house.

Just one question, would you feel the same way if the roommate was having sex with a woman instead of a man?

There is a certain expectation of privacy even when you are sharing a dorm room. Supposing the guy was just jacking off? Do you think he doesn't have a right to do that in his own room when his roommate isn't there? Do you really believe his roommate has the right to watch him on camera when he thinks he's alone?

I agree with everything you said.

But his case is not about that. Its about the victim being gay and turning this all into a hate crime.

*************************************************
NO, also about WITNESS TAMPERING, OBSTRUCTION OF PROSECUTION (similar to obstruction of justice), and DESTRUCTION OF EVIDENCE. I gather you find these crimes acceptable. Dharum Ravi can get time just for these.

 

[Againsheila]

I agree with JoeB. Tyler Clementi did not commit suicide because of one incident. In fact, there are reports that his own mother was "uncomfortable" with his admission only a few months prior. Ravi was not charged with Clementi's death, but I am certain that was what swayed the jury.

Young people who have followed this case will get the message that bullying gays can land you in jail and that filming people without their consent is wrong. Good message.

However, the unintended consequence will be that many will avoid potential friendships with gays, because the risk of doing something stupid, is simply not worth the price.

Rutgers and other universities may now have to ask for sexual orientation before assigning roommates. Is that appropriate? Should they offer segregated dorms? I don't know.

You're not getting the point. What this guy Ravi did was wrong. He knew it was wrong. Even had his roommate been having sex with a female, it was wrong. Doesn't matter what his sexual orientation was, he had an expectation of privacy in his own room, especially when his roommate wasn't there.

 

[JoeB131]

I think what this guy did was wrong, but 10 years in prison is an overreach.

The victims decision to kill himself was his own decision, really. He could have filed a complaint with the university, and gotten this guy expelled. He could have sued him for a shitload of money. He killed himself instead. Suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem.

Originally, the prosecutors offered 600 community service and probation, but the accused in this case didnt' go for it. Now he's going to get ten years in prison and will probably be anally raped a few times? That seems like a bit of an overreach.

I'm only peripherally aware of this case ... you mean that he was offered that and chose to go to trial instead ????? Seriously ?????

Hell. He deserves 10 years for being so damned stupid.

Or maybe he got bad advice from his lawyers. Maybe his lawyers told him, "Dharum, we can totally beat this thing", and Dharum comes from a culture where they stone gays in the street, so he didn't think he'd get convicted.

Again, to my point. He didn't kill Clementi, Clementi killed himself. Without the suicide, there would have been no prosecution at all, much less an offer of community service.

 

[JoeB131]

I think what this guy did was wrong, but 10 years in prison is an overreach.

.

He was offered a plea deal with no jail time and turned it down.

Still not an excuse for Prosecutorial Overreach and abusive laws.

What he actually DID doesn't merit any time in prison. Fines, community service. Yeah, got no problem with that. A felony conviction that will follow him around for the rest of his life, maybe not.

If Clementi hadn't killed himself, would you have advocated such a stiff sentence, or even a prosecution?

He's being prosecuted for things that weren't even in his control. We weren't even entirely sure this was the actual cause of the suicide. His suicide note hasn't been made public and the Judge ruled it had no bearing on the case.

Rutgers Spying Verdict: Dharun Ravi found guilty of invading the privacy of Tyler Clementi - Slate Magazine

In fact, Tyler Clementi had come out to his parents before starting at Rutgers in the fall of 2010, and we still don’t know why he killed himself. The suicide note he left behind, along with three Word documents with telltale names—“Gah.docx,” “sorry.docx,” and “Why is everything so painful.docx”—weren’t turned over to the defense or made public. (According to the judge, they weren’t directly relevant to the case against Ravi.)

 

[syrenn]

Just one question, would you feel the same way if the roommate was having sex with a woman instead of a man?

There is a certain expectation of privacy even when you are sharing a dorm room. Supposing the guy was just jacking off? Do you think he doesn't have a right to do that in his own room when his roommate isn't there? Do you really believe his roommate has the right to watch him on camera when he thinks he's alone?

I agree with everything you said.

But his case is not about that. Its about the victim being gay and turning this all into a hate crime.

*************************************************
NO, also about WITNESS TAMPERING, OBSTRUCTION OF PROSECUTION (similar to obstruction of justice), and DESTRUCTION OF EVIDENCE. I gather you find these crimes acceptable. Dharum Ravi can get time just for these.

Where do i say anything about it being acceptable?

This case would have been nothing if it had been a roommate spying on his heterosexual partner and streaming it.

 

[JoeB131]

Everything the guy did would still be a crime even if the young man hadn't killed himself. Now, if he hadn't killed himself, the other guy probably wouldn't have evidence tampered or lied to the police. Shame on that boy for being humiliated into killing himself.

Honestly, if the guy was that fragile, he was probably going to off himself eventually.

I wish that was the worst thing I had to worry about in college was a rude roommate. I had to deal with working 2 part time jobs, a full class schedule, being in the National Guard and dealing with both parents having terminal cancer during that time. And somehow, I amazingly got through it all.

If this is what they can prosecute you for, just to make a political example out of someone for something that probably should have been settled with a fistfight outside the dorm, then we aren't free, are we? If we can dig up minor technicalities and send someone to prison for them in order to "make a statement", then really, we might as well live in a police state.

(Sorry, this kind of shit gets my libertarian dander up.)

 

[kaz]

I think what this guy did was wrong, but 10 years in prison is an overreach

I don't care about the gay either way. To do that to someone's privacy though it sounds pretty reasonable. He didn't just repeat things, he intentionally and maliciously and explicitly violated his privacy with the filming and release. Totally deserved.

Now he's going to get ten years in prison and will probably be anally raped a few times?

Oh, I hope so...

 

[JoeB131]

The jury heard the case not me, I'm thinking they did the right thing.

I never trust the judgement of 12 people too stupid to get out of Jury Duty.

 

[kaz]

This case would have been nothing if it had been a roommate spying on his heterosexual partner and streaming it. [/COLOR]

Nothing to the national media, but it should have resulted in the same punishment.