Playing the Glacial Fraud Game. This is surreal.

[Old Rocks]

Interesting. Moving lakes in Antarctica.

Mystery of the moving Antarctic lakes - environment - 14 January 2012 - New Scientist

RIVERS and mountains can move given enough time, but they don't normally move half a kilometre every year. Yet that is exactly what is happening to a bizarre group of Antarctic lakes. And the lakes seem to be moving far faster than the ice shelf on which they sit.

The 11 lakes are on the edge of the George VI ice shelf, a banana-shaped sheet of floating ice sandwiched between the Antarctic Peninsula and Alexander Island. They were first spotted in the 1970s but it was only last year that their wanderlust was identified.

Douglas MacAyeal at the University of Chicago gave undergraduate interns the "boring" job of digitising a series of satellite photographs of Antarctic lakes. One student, Claire LaBarbera, noticed that the lakes moved, relative to features on land, from year to year. "I thought, what a nice curiosity," MacAyeal says. Then he took a closer look and realised that the lakes were moving five to 10 times faster than the ice shelf, and in a different direction.

"We found a beautiful curiosity that probably exists nowhere else in the world," he says (Geophysical Research Letters, DOI: 10.1029/2011GL049970).

MacAyeal thinks the explanation lies in the unusual location of the George VI ice shelf, trapped as it is in a narrow channel between Alexander Island and the Antarctic mainland. As the ice sheet squeezes through the channel, its outer edges buckle into a series of crests and troughs. The lakes sit in the troughs. The ice shelf pushes into Alexander Island at an oblique angle, so the end of each trough tracks along the coast, dragging its lake with it.

Standing water on ice shelves is often a sign that they are close to collapse as the water can widen existing cracks in the ice.

 

[code1211]

LOLOLOL.....are you still disputing the fact that CO2 is a greenhouse gas or that the current global increase in temperatures is linked to the 40% increase in atmospheric CO2 levels??? You poor brainwashed fool.

You're really funny, code4stupid.

You asked: "Are you saying that the warming is melting the ice at temperatures below the freezing point of water?"

So I posted some basic information on the process of sublimation that you were apparently (and as usual) completely ignorant of. I also posted some info on the way the warming oceans are melting the Antarctic ice sheets that rest on the ocean floor. I notice you have chosen to completely ignore that latter info in your responses. LOL.


What reality "seems like" to an ignorant, clueless, anti-science reality denier like yourself is of very little interest to me compared to the scientific evidence.

World's largest ice sheet melting faster than expected
East Antarctic sheet shedding 57bn tonnes of ice a year and contributing to sea level rises, according to Nasa aerial survey
The Guardian
22 November 2009
(excerpts)
The world's largest ice sheet has started to melt along its coastal fringes, raising fears that global sea levels will rise faster than scientists expected. The East Antarctic ice sheet, which makes up three-quarters of the continent's 14,000 sq km, is losing around 57bn tonnes of ice a year into surrounding waters, according to a satellite survey of the region. Scientists had thought the ice sheet was reasonably stable, but measurements taken from Nasa's gravity recovery and climate experiment (Grace) show that it started to lose ice steadily from 2006.

The measurements suggest the polar continent could soon contribute more to global sea level rises than Greenland, which is shedding more than 250bn tonnes of ice a year, adding 0.7mm to annual sea level rises. Satellite data from the whole of Antarctica show the region is now losing around 190bn tonnes of ice a year. Uncertainties in the measurements mean the true ice loss could be between 113bn and 267bn tonnes. "If the current trend continues or gets worse, Antarctica could become the largest contributor to sea level rises in the world. It could start to lose more ice than Greenland within a few years," said Jianli Chen, of the University of Texas at Austin.


Earth's Two Ice Sheets Melting Faster Than Expected, Surprising Study Finds
Mar 08, 2011
(excerpts)
The massive Greenland and Antarctic ice sheets that sit near Earth's two poles are melting at an increasingly faster pace, a new study finds. The study, based on measurements covering nearly 20 years, suggests the melting ice sheets are becoming the dominant contributor to global sea level rise, overtaking the loss of ice from Earth's mountain glaciers and ice caps, much sooner than climate models had predicted. "That ice sheets will dominate future sea level rise is not surprising — they hold a lot more ice mass than mountain glaciers," said lead author Eric Rignot, of NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory in Pasadena, Calif., and the University of California, Irvine. "What is surprising is this increased contribution by the ice sheets is already happening." Rignot is lead author of the study detailed this month in the journal Geophysical Research Letters.

The study found that the Greenland and Antarctic ice sheets lost a combined mass of 475 gigatonnes a year on average. (A gigatonne is 1 billion metric tons, or more than 2.2 trillion pounds.) That's enough to raise global sea level by an average of 0.05 inches (1.3 millimeters) a year. The pace at which the polar ice sheets are losing mass was found to be accelerating rapidly. Each year over the course of the study, the two ice sheets lost a combined average of 36.3 gigatonnes more than they did the year before. "If present trends continue, sea level is likely to be significantly higher than levels projected by the United Nations Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change in 2007," Rignot said in a statement. Rignot and his team calculate that if current ice sheet melting rates continue for the next four decades, their cumulative loss could raise sea level by 5.9 inches (15 centimeters) by 2050. When this is added to the predicted sea level contribution of 3.1 inches (8 cm) from glacial ice caps and 3.5 inches (9 cm) from ocean thermal expansion (water expands as it warms), total sea level rise could reach 12.6 inches (32 cm).

Rocks said that the ice cap of Antarctica was melting at an increased pace due to global warming.

I asked if this was occurring at temperatures well below freezing.

You piped in that sublimation is occurring.

You do realize, don't you, that anyone can just scroll back in the debate and see exactly what was actually said? How do you expect to get away with such self-serving revisionism? LOL.

Here is the actual exchange between you and OldRocks:


* He stated the easily checkable fact that Antarctica is losing ice mass, or "melting", at an increased rate that is contributing to the sea level rise - i.e., "definite consequences", we will experience in the next few decades.
* You expressed your usual ignorant incredulity at the fact that the Antarctic ice sheets are losing ice mass even though the temperatures there remain below the freezing point of water.
* I responded to your ignorance by pointing out two things. First, that not only is there a physical process whereby ice can loss mass even at below freezing temperatures, but also second and most important, there is an observed increase in the temperatures of the ocean waters around Antarctica that is definitely linked to the overall worldwide increase in ocean temperatures due to global warming and this warmer water is causing the faster melting of the portions of the ice sheets that rest on the ocean floor instead of land.






....which I was, of course, as I just pointed out, but unfortunately it seems that a really dense moron like you might miss that fact and might even suppose that....

....You apparently were not and just decided to post something that was interesting to you at the moment. Thank you for your contribution. I hope that it has some relevance to something important to you since it apparently has no relevance to the discussion in progress.

LOLOL....you are such a dimwit....

Regarding the ocean currents, so what? The ocean currents are another of the myriad causes that the AGW choose to ignore as they trumpet the devastation of the increase of CO2. Again, no a part of the discussion you injected yourself into.

Are you really that retarded, code4stupid? You're on here disputing the scientific testimony about the very real and observable loss of ice mass in Antarctica due to global warming because, in your very limited understanding of things, the air temperatures down there are still well below freezing and that should preclude any melting. So then when someone points out that the scientists are saying that the warmer ocean waters are a big part of what is causing increased melting of the ice, you protest that this information has "no part of the discussion". LOLOLOLOL. You poor confused brainwashed retard.

The ocean currents have as much impact on the ice at the South pole as the ocean currents have impact on the ice in North Dakota.

Still waiting for the information on how the content of CO2 affects the rate of sublimation.

Regarding the rise of the ocean levels, the word of late is that the rise of the ocean levels has recently increased from 2mm/year to 3mm/year. At the rate of 2mm since the catostrophic increases of CO2, 150 years ago, well after the dawn of the industrial Revolution, the ocean levels should have risen by a little more than a foot. Please, don't tell me what is going to happen according to the experts. In AGW Science, the experts have been wrong with every prediction they have issued. Demonstrate how the ocean level increases they have said already occurred have happened with no encroachment on the coastlines.

You seem like a very happy person laughing so much. I'm glad for you.

 

[code1211]

It IS the topic. How can you ignore the FACT that glaciers have been melting at a steady pace since the last ice age and expect us to be paniced that glaciers have been melting in the last 100 years?

Are ice glaciers magically supposed to stop melting during this time even though we are thousands of years past the last ice age and our planet is supposed to be warming up?

Man, you are full of shit clear up to your brown eyes. Glaciers have extended and retreated numerous times since the last ice age. It is the rate, and acceleration of that rate that puts the present retreat outside the norm. They have not melted at a steady rate since the last ice age at all.

When Glacier National Park was created, there were more than 150 glaciers in that area. Today, there are only 23 left. And some of those are but small patchs of ice, doomed to disappear before 2030.

Also, the ice caps of Greenland and Antarctica are melting, at a rate that will have definate consequences before 2050.

The highest recorded temperature at the south pole in the instrument record is well below freezing.

Are you saying that the warming is melting the ice at temperatures below the freezing point of water?

By the by, Rolling, this is the post to which you first responded.

 

[skookerasbil]

 

[skookerasbil]

 

[skookerasbil]

You jackasses...................

Why Wind Power Doesn't Work - Forbes

 

[skookerasbil]

LOLOLOL.....are you still disputing the fact that CO2 is a greenhouse gas or that the current global increase in temperatures is linked to the 40% increase in atmospheric CO2 levels??? You poor brainwashed fool.

You're really funny, code4stupid.

You asked: "Are you saying that the warming is melting the ice at temperatures below the freezing point of water?"

So I posted some basic information on the process of sublimation that you were apparently (and as usual) completely ignorant of. I also posted some info on the way the warming oceans are melting the Antarctic ice sheets that rest on the ocean floor. I notice you have chosen to completely ignore that latter info in your responses. LOL.


What reality "seems like" to an ignorant, clueless, anti-science reality denier like yourself is of very little interest to me compared to the scientific evidence.

World's largest ice sheet melting faster than expected
East Antarctic sheet shedding 57bn tonnes of ice a year and contributing to sea level rises, according to Nasa aerial survey
The Guardian
22 November 2009
(excerpts)
The world's largest ice sheet has started to melt along its coastal fringes, raising fears that global sea levels will rise faster than scientists expected. The East Antarctic ice sheet, which makes up three-quarters of the continent's 14,000 sq km, is losing around 57bn tonnes of ice a year into surrounding waters, according to a satellite survey of the region. Scientists had thought the ice sheet was reasonably stable, but measurements taken from Nasa's gravity recovery and climate experiment (Grace) show that it started to lose ice steadily from 2006.

The measurements suggest the polar continent could soon contribute more to global sea level rises than Greenland, which is shedding more than 250bn tonnes of ice a year, adding 0.7mm to annual sea level rises. Satellite data from the whole of Antarctica show the region is now losing around 190bn tonnes of ice a year. Uncertainties in the measurements mean the true ice loss could be between 113bn and 267bn tonnes. "If the current trend continues or gets worse, Antarctica could become the largest contributor to sea level rises in the world. It could start to lose more ice than Greenland within a few years," said Jianli Chen, of the University of Texas at Austin.


Earth's Two Ice Sheets Melting Faster Than Expected, Surprising Study Finds
Mar 08, 2011
(excerpts)
The massive Greenland and Antarctic ice sheets that sit near Earth's two poles are melting at an increasingly faster pace, a new study finds. The study, based on measurements covering nearly 20 years, suggests the melting ice sheets are becoming the dominant contributor to global sea level rise, overtaking the loss of ice from Earth's mountain glaciers and ice caps, much sooner than climate models had predicted. "That ice sheets will dominate future sea level rise is not surprising — they hold a lot more ice mass than mountain glaciers," said lead author Eric Rignot, of NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory in Pasadena, Calif., and the University of California, Irvine. "What is surprising is this increased contribution by the ice sheets is already happening." Rignot is lead author of the study detailed this month in the journal Geophysical Research Letters.

The study found that the Greenland and Antarctic ice sheets lost a combined mass of 475 gigatonnes a year on average. (A gigatonne is 1 billion metric tons, or more than 2.2 trillion pounds.) That's enough to raise global sea level by an average of 0.05 inches (1.3 millimeters) a year. The pace at which the polar ice sheets are losing mass was found to be accelerating rapidly. Each year over the course of the study, the two ice sheets lost a combined average of 36.3 gigatonnes more than they did the year before. "If present trends continue, sea level is likely to be significantly higher than levels projected by the United Nations Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change in 2007," Rignot said in a statement. Rignot and his team calculate that if current ice sheet melting rates continue for the next four decades, their cumulative loss could raise sea level by 5.9 inches (15 centimeters) by 2050. When this is added to the predicted sea level contribution of 3.1 inches (8 cm) from glacial ice caps and 3.5 inches (9 cm) from ocean thermal expansion (water expands as it warms), total sea level rise could reach 12.6 inches (32 cm).

Rocks said that the ice cap of Antarctica was melting at an increased pace due to global warming.

I asked if this was occurring at temperatures well below freezing.

You piped in that sublimation is occurring.

You do realize, don't you, that anyone can just scroll back in the debate and see exactly what was actually said? How do you expect to get away with such self-serving revisionism? LOL.

Here is the actual exchange between you and OldRocks:


* He stated the easily checkable fact that Antarctica is losing ice mass, or "melting", at an increased rate that is contributing to the sea level rise - i.e., "definite consequences", we will experience in the next few decades.
* You expressed your usual ignorant incredulity at the fact that the Antarctic ice sheets are losing ice mass even though the temperatures there remain below the freezing point of water.
* I responded to your ignorance by pointing out two things. First, that not only is there a physical process whereby ice can loss mass even at below freezing temperatures, but also second and most important, there is an observed increase in the temperatures of the ocean waters around Antarctica that is definitely linked to the overall worldwide increase in ocean temperatures due to global warming and this warmer water is causing the faster melting of the portions of the ice sheets that rest on the ocean floor instead of land.






....which I was, of course, as I just pointed out, but unfortunately it seems that a really dense moron like you might miss that fact and might even suppose that....

....You apparently were not and just decided to post something that was interesting to you at the moment. Thank you for your contribution. I hope that it has some relevance to something important to you since it apparently has no relevance to the discussion in progress.

LOLOL....you are such a dimwit....

Regarding the ocean currents, so what? The ocean currents are another of the myriad causes that the AGW choose to ignore as they trumpet the devastation of the increase of CO2. Again, no a part of the discussion you injected yourself into.

Are you really that retarded, code4stupid? You're on here disputing the scientific testimony about the very real and observable loss of ice mass in Antarctica due to global warming because, in your very limited understanding of things, the air temperatures down there are still well below freezing and that should preclude any melting. So then when someone points out that the scientists are saying that the warmer ocean waters are a big part of what is causing increased melting of the ice, you protest that this information has "no part of the discussion". LOLOLOLOL. You poor confused brainwashed retard.

The most prolific mudslinger on the forum doesnt realize............he's LOSING!!! Despite all the fancy posts...........all the hyper-angst presentation..........all the subjective crap that can be put intoone post.............LOSING!!!


But dont take my word for it............check out what they are saying at GreenBiz.com.........hardly a supporter of the sceptic view. Read how these people think the green energy business is going


From the opening paragraph in their annual report.............


Our 2012 State of Green Business report, our fifth annual, has just been published. I’m not going to mince words: Things aren’t going as well as we’d hoped. For the first time since we began doing our assessment, in 2008, several of the indicators have taken a downward turn.

The State of Green Business 2012 | GreenBiz.com




Because nobody gives a fuck about this shit in 2012.



Yo Thunder..............so.............who's the retard here exactly???

 

[skookerasbil]

The alarmists need to educate themselves about why they keep shooting themselves in the face..........and why they desperately need a beer and a plan!!!


"How Bad Science Becomes Common Knowledge"

How Bad Science Becomes Common Knowledge: Two Case Studies (solar and climate change) — MasterResource



The k00ks absolutely hate the reality of this........but it is what it is............which is why I can laugh my balls off every time the alarmist contingent posts up a new thread about temperatures or glaciers. And the reality is.......as of 2012, this is nothing more than an exercise in science hobbying.

 

[skookerasbil]

 

[RollingThunder]

Rocks said that the ice cap of Antarctica was melting at an increased pace due to global warming.

I asked if this was occurring at temperatures well below freezing.

You piped in that sublimation is occurring.

You do realize, don't you, that anyone can just scroll back in the debate and see exactly what was actually said? How do you expect to get away with such self-serving revisionism? LOL.

Here is the actual exchange between you and OldRocks:


* He stated the easily checkable fact that Antarctica is losing ice mass, or "melting", at an increased rate that is contributing to the sea level rise - i.e., "definite consequences", we will experience in the next few decades.
* You expressed your usual ignorant incredulity at the fact that the Antarctic ice sheets are losing ice mass even though the temperatures there remain below the freezing point of water.
* I responded to your ignorance by pointing out two things. First, that not only is there a physical process whereby ice can loss mass even at below freezing temperatures, but also second and most important, there is an observed increase in the temperatures of the ocean waters around Antarctica that is definitely linked to the overall worldwide increase in ocean temperatures due to global warming and this warmer water is causing the faster melting of the portions of the ice sheets that rest on the ocean floor instead of land.


....which I was, of course, as I just pointed out, but unfortunately it seems that a really dense moron like you might miss that fact and might even suppose that....

LOLOL....you are such a dimwit....

Regarding the ocean currents, so what? The ocean currents are another of the myriad causes that the AGW choose to ignore as they trumpet the devastation of the increase of CO2. Again, no a part of the discussion you injected yourself into.

Are you really that retarded, code4stupid? You're on here disputing the scientific testimony about the very real and observable loss of ice mass in Antarctica due to global warming because, in your very limited understanding of things, the air temperatures down there are still well below freezing and that should preclude any melting. So then when someone points out that the scientists are saying that the warmer ocean waters are a big part of what is causing increased melting of the ice, you protest that this information has "no part of the discussion". LOLOLOLOL. You poor confused brainwashed retard.

The ocean currents have as much impact on the ice at the South pole as the ocean currents have impact on the ice in North Dakota.

Announce it to the world - the Pope of Stupidity has spoken ex cathedral from his bellybutton to let us all know that all of the scientists who study the Antarctic are completely wrong. God told him so.

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL.........

I keep talking about 'warmer ocean waters' and you keep talking about 'ocean currents'. Are you trying to ignore the "warmer" part of it? At least have the intellectual honesty to call them 'warmer ocean currents'. I know you're really retarded but jeeez, little cretin, get a clue. Are you completely incabable of comprehending the scientific information presented to you?

Warming oceans could melt ice faster than expected
7/3/2011
(excerpts)
Ice sheets simmering in warmer ocean waters could melt much quicker than realized. New research is suggesting that as oceans heat up they could erode away the ice sheets much faster than warmer air alone, and this interaction needs to be accounted for in climate change models. "Ocean warming is very important compared to atmospheric warming, because water has a much larger heat capacity than air," study researcher Jianjun Yin of the University of Arizona said in a statement. "If you put an ice cube in a warm room, it will melt in several hours. But if you put an ice cube in a cup of warm water, it will disappear in just minutes."

This drastic increase in ocean warming will have a substantial impact on how quickly the polar ice sheets melt, as warmer waters will erode away the ice sheets below the surface. This is on top of increased melting from warmer air in the region. As the glaciers' underwater support structures melt, they lose chunks of ice, which become icebergs. "This does mean that both Greenland and Antarctica are probably going melt faster than the scientific community previously thought," study researcher Jonathan Overpeck, also of the University of Arizona, said in a statement.

Ancient Glacial Melting Shows That Small Amount of Subsurface Warming Can Trigger Rapid Collapse of Ice Shelves
ScienceDaily
Aug. 1, 2011
(excerpts)

An analysis of prehistoric "Heinrich events" that happened many thousands of years ago, creating mass discharges of icebergs into the North Atlantic Ocean, make it clear that very small amounts of subsurface warming of water can trigger a rapid collapse of ice shelves. The findings, to be published this week in Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, provide historical evidence that warming of water by 3-4 degrees was enough to trigger these huge, episodic discharges of ice from the Laurentide Ice Sheet in what is now Canada. The results are important, researchers say, due to concerns that warmer water could cause a comparatively fast collapse of ice shelves in Antarctica or Greenland, increasing the flow of ice into the ocean and raising sea levels. One of the most vulnerable areas, the West Antarctic Ice Sheet, would raise global sea level by about 11 feet if it were all to melt.


Antarctic Melting as Deep Ocean Heat Rises
Big melting along the Antarctic coast has researchers realizing that the deep sea has been holding Earth's warming.
Discovery Magazine
Dec 14, 2010
(excerpts)

Global warming is sneaky. For more than a century it has been hiding large amounts of excess heat in the world's deep seas. Now that heat is coming to the surface again in one of the worst possible places: Antarctica. New analyses of the heat content of the waters off Western Antarctic Peninsula are now showing a clear and exponential increase in warming waters undermining the sea ice, raising air temperatures, melting glaciers and wiping out entire penguin colonies. "In the area I work there is the highest increase in temperatures of anywhere on Earth," said physical oceanographer Doug Martinson of the Lamont-Doherty Earth Observatory. Martinson has been collecting ocean water heat content data for more than 18 years at Palmer Island, on the western side of the Antarctic Peninsula. "Eighty-seven percent of the alpine glaciers are in retreat," said Martinson of the Western Antarctic Peninsula. "Some of the Adele penguin colonies have already gone extinct."

As for how fast the ice will melt and in what locations, that depends largely on whether the upwelling warm water comes in contact with the thick ice shelf that crowds the coast and holds the block the glaciers from reaching the sea. That, in turn, depends on the winds which drive away the surface waters and make it possible for the deeper waters to rise to the surface, said senior researcher Robert Bindschadler of NASA's Goddard Earth Science and Technology Center and the University of Maryland-Baltimore County. "It can destroy the ice shelf if that heat can get to it," said Bindschadler, who at the same meeting presented his work from the melting Pine Island Ice Shelf in Antarctica. Now that the upwelling deep sea water is the clear cause of the melting ice shelf, rather than summer melt water, as had been thought in the past, it's a question of how winds will change in a warming world and whether they will drive more warm water into the ice shelves.

 

[skookerasbil]

Alarmism is gay............and a losing strategy, by the way!!!

 

[RollingThunder]

Alarmism is gay............and a losing strategy, by the way!!!

Sticking your head in the sand is really stupid.....and a losing strategy, by the way!!!

 

[code1211]

You do realize, don't you, that anyone can just scroll back in the debate and see exactly what was actually said? How do you expect to get away with such self-serving revisionism? LOL.

Here is the actual exchange between you and OldRocks:


* He stated the easily checkable fact that Antarctica is losing ice mass, or "melting", at an increased rate that is contributing to the sea level rise - i.e., "definite consequences", we will experience in the next few decades.
* You expressed your usual ignorant incredulity at the fact that the Antarctic ice sheets are losing ice mass even though the temperatures there remain below the freezing point of water.
* I responded to your ignorance by pointing out two things. First, that not only is there a physical process whereby ice can loss mass even at below freezing temperatures, but also second and most important, there is an observed increase in the temperatures of the ocean waters around Antarctica that is definitely linked to the overall worldwide increase in ocean temperatures due to global warming and this warmer water is causing the faster melting of the portions of the ice sheets that rest on the ocean floor instead of land.


....which I was, of course, as I just pointed out, but unfortunately it seems that a really dense moron like you might miss that fact and might even suppose that....

LOLOL....you are such a dimwit....


Are you really that retarded, code4stupid? You're on here disputing the scientific testimony about the very real and observable loss of ice mass in Antarctica due to global warming because, in your very limited understanding of things, the air temperatures down there are still well below freezing and that should preclude any melting. So then when someone points out that the scientists are saying that the warmer ocean waters are a big part of what is causing increased melting of the ice, you protest that this information has "no part of the discussion". LOLOLOLOL. You poor confused brainwashed retard.

The ocean currents have as much impact on the ice at the South pole as the ocean currents have impact on the ice in North Dakota.

Announce it to the world - the Pope of Stupidity has spoken ex cathedral from his bellybutton to let us all know that all of the scientists who study the Antarctic are completely wrong. God told him so.

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL.........

I keep talking about 'warmer ocean waters' and you keep talking about 'ocean currents'. Are you trying to ignore the "warmer" part of it? At least have the intellectual honesty to call them 'warmer ocean currents'. I know you're really retarded but jeeez, little cretin, get a clue. Are you completely incabable of comprehending the scientific information presented to you?

Warming oceans could melt ice faster than expected
7/3/2011
(excerpts)
Ice sheets simmering in warmer ocean waters could melt much quicker than realized. New research is suggesting that as oceans heat up they could erode away the ice sheets much faster than warmer air alone, and this interaction needs to be accounted for in climate change models. "Ocean warming is very important compared to atmospheric warming, because water has a much larger heat capacity than air," study researcher Jianjun Yin of the University of Arizona said in a statement. "If you put an ice cube in a warm room, it will melt in several hours. But if you put an ice cube in a cup of warm water, it will disappear in just minutes."

This drastic increase in ocean warming will have a substantial impact on how quickly the polar ice sheets melt, as warmer waters will erode away the ice sheets below the surface. This is on top of increased melting from warmer air in the region. As the glaciers' underwater support structures melt, they lose chunks of ice, which become icebergs. "This does mean that both Greenland and Antarctica are probably going melt faster than the scientific community previously thought," study researcher Jonathan Overpeck, also of the University of Arizona, said in a statement.

Ancient Glacial Melting Shows That Small Amount of Subsurface Warming Can Trigger Rapid Collapse of Ice Shelves
ScienceDaily
Aug. 1, 2011
(excerpts)

An analysis of prehistoric "Heinrich events" that happened many thousands of years ago, creating mass discharges of icebergs into the North Atlantic Ocean, make it clear that very small amounts of subsurface warming of water can trigger a rapid collapse of ice shelves. The findings, to be published this week in Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, provide historical evidence that warming of water by 3-4 degrees was enough to trigger these huge, episodic discharges of ice from the Laurentide Ice Sheet in what is now Canada. The results are important, researchers say, due to concerns that warmer water could cause a comparatively fast collapse of ice shelves in Antarctica or Greenland, increasing the flow of ice into the ocean and raising sea levels. One of the most vulnerable areas, the West Antarctic Ice Sheet, would raise global sea level by about 11 feet if it were all to melt.


Antarctic Melting as Deep Ocean Heat Rises
Big melting along the Antarctic coast has researchers realizing that the deep sea has been holding Earth's warming.
Discovery Magazine
Dec 14, 2010
(excerpts)

Global warming is sneaky. For more than a century it has been hiding large amounts of excess heat in the world's deep seas. Now that heat is coming to the surface again in one of the worst possible places: Antarctica. New analyses of the heat content of the waters off Western Antarctic Peninsula are now showing a clear and exponential increase in warming waters undermining the sea ice, raising air temperatures, melting glaciers and wiping out entire penguin colonies. "In the area I work there is the highest increase in temperatures of anywhere on Earth," said physical oceanographer Doug Martinson of the Lamont-Doherty Earth Observatory. Martinson has been collecting ocean water heat content data for more than 18 years at Palmer Island, on the western side of the Antarctic Peninsula. "Eighty-seven percent of the alpine glaciers are in retreat," said Martinson of the Western Antarctic Peninsula. "Some of the Adele penguin colonies have already gone extinct."

As for how fast the ice will melt and in what locations, that depends largely on whether the upwelling warm water comes in contact with the thick ice shelf that crowds the coast and holds the block the glaciers from reaching the sea. That, in turn, depends on the winds which drive away the surface waters and make it possible for the deeper waters to rise to the surface, said senior researcher Robert Bindschadler of NASA's Goddard Earth Science and Technology Center and the University of Maryland-Baltimore County. "It can destroy the ice shelf if that heat can get to it," said Bindschadler, who at the same meeting presented his work from the melting Pine Island Ice Shelf in Antarctica. Now that the upwelling deep sea water is the clear cause of the melting ice shelf, rather than summer melt water, as had been thought in the past, it's a question of how winds will change in a warming world and whether they will drive more warm water into the ice shelves.

And if the oceans are actually cooling as revealed by the Argo Array of buoys?

You really need to check the real science before you post the fantasy you see as fact.

You say that CO2 causes warming and that more CO2 will cause more warming but there here is more CO2 and the warming has stalled.

You say the oceans are warming but the oceans are actually cooling.

How many times must you be wrong before it starts to sink in that you're not right? You seem to be betting on the wrong horse, losing every debate and laughing along the way. I appreciate a guy who can smile in the face of defeat.

I'll look foreward to your next laugh.

The Mystery of Global Warming's Missing Heat : NPR

<snip>
In fact, 80 percent to 90 percent of global warming involves heating up ocean waters. They hold much more heat than the atmosphere can. So Willis has been studying the ocean with a fleet of robotic instruments called the Argo system. The buoys can dive 3,000 feet down and measure ocean temperature. Since the system was fully deployed in 2003, it has recorded no warming of the global oceans.

"There has been a very slight cooling, but not anything really significant," Willis says. So the buildup of heat on Earth may be on a brief hiatus. "Global warming doesn't mean every year will be warmer than the last. And it may be that we are in a period of less rapid warming."
<snip>

 

[skookerasbil]

Alarmism is gay............and a losing strategy, by the way!!!

Sticking your head in the sand is really stupid.....and a losing strategy, by the way!!!

Except I asked this genius to produce one single thread from the entire internet that would indicate that the global warming alarmists are winning the PR battle over energy production.

How many did he produce?

Oh.....but the rest of us are "retards"!!!


The fact is........zero congressional legislation has been produced in the last several years having anything to do with carbon emmissions. ZERO . Cap and Trade is never even utterred in the halls of Congress anymore and when the far left representative from a far left congressional district tries to bring something to the floor, the person gets laughed out of the chamber.

ZERO


Indeed........the "consensus science" is losing in epic fashion in 2012.


But dont take my word for it.......go google..................... Forbes.........Investors Business Weekly..........Bloomberg...........Wall Street Journal..............fail............and global warming. See what you come up with!!!!