Planned Parenthood: Interesting Discussion

[AllieBaba]

He had sex, the baby's his.

He gets to pay child support. You don't want to take the chance, don't have sex.

LOL. Another choice. If you really don't want children, vasectomy.

Sometimes vasectomies aren't 100 percent, either.

 

[Cecilie1200]

So I'm listening to a radio talkshow and a major question comes up. Let's say two people are married or living together having unprotected sex. The woman is on birth control, and the understanding between the two is that she will remain on birthcrontol. all of a sudden the woman wants a child... but she knows for whatever reason... they can't afford it, the man's in between jobs, the man has goals that don't include children at the moment, etc... the man will not agree to having children. Does she have the right (moral not legal) to take herself off the pill without him knowing and get pregnant.

Now the legal question is if the courts then have the right to FORCE him to pay child support for a baby he did not intend on having and that his wife/fiance/girlfriend PURPOSELY almost tricked him into having?

Which all broke down to this question... within a marriage or relationship should a woman ask for the man's consent... or better question should there be recognized mutual consent between the two parties involved before a child is had?

Now the answer to this for me was pretty obvious. Yes, there should... but I can't tell you how many women got on the radio and said things like "it's my body and if I want a child he's just going to have to deal with it"... as if having a damn child was like getting a new pair of shoes.

Just thought I'd start a discussion on family/relationships...etc. Opinions?

Dude, I discuss spending more than $20 in one place with my husband. I would sure as hell discuss something as important as making another human being with him. OF COURSE I have a moral obligation to discuss changing our entire lives before doing it. Any woman who thinks it's all about "her body" at that point doesn't understand the concept of "relationship" at all. On the other hand, men have an obligation to themselves to find out if they're involved with such an immature, self-absorbed bitch before shooting their sperm. Know your target before you aim at it, guys.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Birth control is also the responsibility of the guy in the relationship so hes gotta cover his ass(figuratively) by wearing a condom, however much that may indeed suck. To answer one of your question, no one should have the moral right to decieve another person on such an important responsibility that will change the mans life forever. If the woman in question did that do me I would disassociate myself as far as possible from the bitch, lets face it she would be nothing short of a complete bitch, while trying to raise my kid. Also, I dont believe that mutual consent should be necessary to have a kid, sometimes people having sex do get pregnant and you should not "force" the woman to have an abortion that may conflict with her values because a guy doesnt want a kid.

Another question thats kind of the opposite line of thought, does a man or woman who knowling is unable to have kids have a moral right to tell this to their partner?

fixed

Yes. You have an obligation to tell your partner that you can't have children, ESPECIALLY if you know he or she wants them. It amazes me that people even need to ask if they have a moral obligation to discuss things that affect their relationship with their partners.

 

[Cecilie1200]

I'm with you. Certainly trapping a man into child support should fall into the area of fraud. But with that said, it would be darn hard to prove.

I've read about men paying child support for years for children that aren't even theirs. They can't even sue for back payments even when the DNA test is negative.

Men who don't want children and/or are sleeping with conniving partners should wear condoms at all times. In fact I think they make a pill for men now too. I wouldn't trust anyone I wasn't married to, no matter how much I loved him/her.

Women have all the power in this area. But in the words of Spidey - with great power, comes great responsibility.

Absolutely, and I've read about that kind of fraud too. It's crazy. Personally I'm pro-choice, but it in itself is an unfair system all together. If a woman doesn't want the responsability of a child she has the right to ditch that responsability. Note I don't negate the serious thought process that comes with the termination of pregnancy, and I'm familiar with the decision making that goes on.

Should a man be forced however to take responsibility for a child he's made it clear from the beginning he never wanted?

Yes. Let me put it this way. If you throw an empty candy bar wrapper out the car window, should you be held responsible for littering? You shot your wad, and it's your own damned fault that you weren't more careful about where it landed. The consequences are yours to deal with.

However, I think if he can conclusively prove that she deliberately defrauded him in this manner, he should be able to sue her.

That's just a QUESTION... for all the people ready to bite my head off.

Personally I think the FOCUS ON THE FAMILY and PARENTHOOD in our society has gone completely out of wack. The fabric of the family is being torn apart and I don't buy into the "prayer in schools" or "christian values" bullshit.

When you have a situation when many women believe that once you have sex your consenting to having a child and therefore they can have a child while married to you without mutual consent poses a problem. It takes two to make a child and it takes two to raise one. If BOTH parents are not ready for a child... that should be respected. If this kind of fraud can be proven it should be prosecuted, which of course it's not.

FOCUS ON THE FAMILY does NOT advocate one partner making a baby without discussing it with the other partner. They very much support the ENTIRE concept of family and relationships and marriage, which certainly includes communication with and responsibility toward one's partner.

Understood about the condom thing of course, but I'm talking about deception rather then just carelessness.

I'd have to say that in the case of deception, she's a conniving, selfish bitch, but he's a careless, irresponsible doofus.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Once the child is born, can't the man revoke all his parental rights and responsibilities?

No. He can sign away his rights to custody and visitation, but he cannot sign away his financial obligations, unless the child is put up for adoption.

If not, he should be able to, especially if he explicitly did not want children.

You don't get to sign away your responsibility for a helpless human being under the law. The kid has a legal claim on you.

See...this is why people should need a special license to have children!

Can't say I blame you.

 

[Cecilie1200]

He had sex, the baby's his.

He gets to pay child support. You don't want to take the chance, don't have sex.

So if a man consents to having sex with a woman he is consenting to bear the consequences of whatever the woman's decisions is as far as the fate of the fetus ?

Yup. Which is why I said "Know your target before you aim at it."

 

[Cecilie1200]

Once the child is born, can't the man revoke all his parental rights and responsibilities?

If not, he should be able to, especially if he explicitly did not want children.

See...this is why people should need a special license to have children!

No, they cannot from what I understand.

I think he can as long as the mother agrees to it and is not on government assistance.

Not really, because she can change her mind later and take him back to court. I can't think of any family court that is going to let the child go without financial support just because the parents made a deal years ago. Their priority is ALWAYS the welfare of the minor. They don't much give a rat's ass about the adults.