Petreus is out of line

[Quantum Windbag]

an officer's ultimate obligation is to protect the men and women for which he is responsible. i can't fault him for doing that, nor do i think he's out of line.

The Ultimate Obligation is to Defend the Constitution.

I don't want Americans to stop practicing their rights on account of Murderous Psychos. Do you?

It might be the easy conclusion to draw. It certainly fits the template of an American citizen with a (excuse me but it's true) George W. Bush-like world view. A narrow, inexperienced, border-line xenophobic world view.

I suggest that Gen. Petreus has done his homework, has been immersed in the culture of that part of the world and thoroughly understands what makes his enemy tick.

Thump your chest all you want about the constitution. We are at war for the safety of our nation and the hearts and minds of those who would commit evil crimes against us and their fellow man. Gen. Petreus has a difficult job to do.

Now, about this constitution so many conservatives want to hold in violate. Let me ask this: why are Conservative politicians and posters on this board so vehement about defending the constitution, preserving the constitution and honoring whatever they think is the original intent of the constitution all while wanting to rewrite it to serve the politics du jour?

How's that 14th amendment look? How about the effort to repeal the 17th amendment? And how much do you honor the first amendment whenever you demand a house of worship should not be built where those who fund that house of worship want to build it?

But, a call to ban plastic handguns or cop killer bullets and those same brave Conservatives scream about an impending constitutional crisis over the second amendment.

Sure. The constitution and originalists will proudly proclaim their love of the document. Except for a few pesky parts.

Kinda like you trying to get rid of the parts you don't like?

 

[Nosmo King]

The Ultimate Obligation is to Defend the Constitution.

I don't want Americans to stop practicing their rights on account of Murderous Psychos. Do you?

It might be the easy conclusion to draw. It certainly fits the template of an American citizen with a (excuse me but it's true) George W. Bush-like world view. A narrow, inexperienced, border-line xenophobic world view.

I suggest that Gen. Petreus has done his homework, has been immersed in the culture of that part of the world and thoroughly understands what makes his enemy tick.

Thump your chest all you want about the constitution. We are at war for the safety of our nation and the hearts and minds of those who would commit evil crimes against us and their fellow man. Gen. Petreus has a difficult job to do.

Now, about this constitution so many conservatives want to hold in violate. Let me ask this: why are Conservative politicians and posters on this board so vehement about defending the constitution, preserving the constitution and honoring whatever they think is the original intent of the constitution all while wanting to rewrite it to serve the politics du jour?

How's that 14th amendment look? How about the effort to repeal the 17th amendment? And how much do you honor the first amendment whenever you demand a house of worship should not be built where those who fund that house of worship want to build it?

But, a call to ban plastic handguns or cop killer bullets and those same brave Conservatives scream about an impending constitutional crisis over the second amendment.

Sure. The constitution and originalists will proudly proclaim their love of the document. Except for a few pesky parts.

Kinda like you trying to get rid of the parts you don't like?

The only part of the constitution I would like CLARIFIED is that pesky "A well regulated militia" part lots of Conservatives forget about.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

an officer's ultimate obligation is to protect the men and women for which he is responsible. i can't fault him for doing that, nor do i think he's out of line.

The Ultimate Obligation is to Defend the Constitution.

I don't want Americans to stop practicing their rights on account of Murderous Psychos. Do you?

wrong

no, i don't.

You are wrong. The Officers take an OATH to defend the Constitution. Mission accomplishment comes first. While one could argue that part of the mission might be endangered by a book burning backlash, they would be ignoring the fact that the Constitution IS our Country. His first priority is to defend the Constitution.

 

[The T]

The Ultimate Obligation is to Defend the Constitution.

I don't want Americans to stop practicing their rights on account of Murderous Psychos. Do you?

wrong

no, i don't.

You are wrong. The Officers take an OATH to defend the Constitution. Mission accomplishment comes first. While one could argue that part of the mission might be endangered by a book burning backlash, they would be ignoring the fact that the Constitution IS our Country. His first priority is to defend the Constitution.

Protect and defend the Constitution...and OBEY the orders of the officers appointed over him...I agree.

 

[The T]

I mean, what is the guise our Red White and Blue fights under? Defending the Constitution?

I don't support the 9/11 burning of the Quran; however, opposing it on the grounds that it will create more Terrorists is an absolute contradiction to the Mission of our Armed forces.

Yes, it will put those who Volunteered to Defend the Constitution in presumably more danger. But these are the very hard-line ideals they're doing it for........The Freedom to think and express how you feel, no matter how distasteful or who doesn't like it. I think the General is out of line on this one.

Here's the deal? Patreus is OUT OF LINE.

This preist in Gainesville Florida is quite within his bounds to do as he likes.

It's his Constutional RIGHT. Now whether or not he get traction or it will relegate himself to obscurity is the result of him exercising his right.

That is for the receivers of his message to decide.

But THAT is the price to live in a free society...where a jackass can exercise their right to be just that.

If it inflames those overseas that do NOT have nor can exercise such rights?

Perhaps they should rexamine where they live?

The Troops are already UNDER duress by being AT WAR with folks that don't have the luxury to exercise what this preist is doing.

Then it seems to me that those over there watching have a very crucial exercise before them...

LIBERTY...[An ALL OR NOTHING proposition] or a life of slavery under something they practice NOW that is a terrible one-way street that cannot and WILL NOT afford them to do what this Jackass preist in Florida is doing.

General Patreus IS out of line. He is Defying the Constitution and precisely the First Amendment. And should be CHASTISED by command for speaking out of turn

Now General P? I Like you...Don't SCREW IT UP.


Is he going to lead by example...or become PART of what he is supposedly fighting over there just merely for Political reasons.

General? WAKE UP.

~SSGT *T*...

 

[del]

Burning the Koran is fucking stupid. Although I fully support the right to do so, it's fucking stupid.

Seriously, what's it going to do?.....Is it going to stop the radicals from misinterpreting it?...Is it going to stop the nutjobs and their twisted agenda?

The whole thing is abjectly ridiculous.

Bingo! If the General in charge of the War in Afghanistan is panicking over a couple of wackos burning Korans,that War is now officially lost. Forget the Free Speech aspect. The fact he's panicking over such a non-issue tells the real story of what's going on over there. It is very sad.

panicking?

please

 

[Quantum Windbag]

It might be the easy conclusion to draw. It certainly fits the template of an American citizen with a (excuse me but it's true) George W. Bush-like world view. A narrow, inexperienced, border-line xenophobic world view.

I suggest that Gen. Petreus has done his homework, has been immersed in the culture of that part of the world and thoroughly understands what makes his enemy tick.

Thump your chest all you want about the constitution. We are at war for the safety of our nation and the hearts and minds of those who would commit evil crimes against us and their fellow man. Gen. Petreus has a difficult job to do.

Now, about this constitution so many conservatives want to hold in violate. Let me ask this: why are Conservative politicians and posters on this board so vehement about defending the constitution, preserving the constitution and honoring whatever they think is the original intent of the constitution all while wanting to rewrite it to serve the politics du jour?

How's that 14th amendment look? How about the effort to repeal the 17th amendment? And how much do you honor the first amendment whenever you demand a house of worship should not be built where those who fund that house of worship want to build it?

But, a call to ban plastic handguns or cop killer bullets and those same brave Conservatives scream about an impending constitutional crisis over the second amendment.

Sure. The constitution and originalists will proudly proclaim their love of the document. Except for a few pesky parts.

Kinda like you trying to get rid of the parts you don't like?

The only part of the constitution I would like CLARIFIED is that pesky "A well regulated militia" part lots of Conservatives forget about.

I thought the court just clarified that. Isn't it interesting how you miss that part simply because you don't like it?

 

[The T]

an officer's ultimate obligation is to protect the men and women for which he is responsible. i can't fault him for doing that, nor do i think he's out of line.

The Ultimate Obligation is to Defend the Constitution.

I don't want Americans to stop practicing their rights on account of Murderous Psychos. Do you?

It might be the easy conclusion to draw. It certainly fits the template of an American citizen with a (excuse me but it's true) George W. Bush-like world view. A narrow, inexperienced, border-line xenophobic world view.

I suggest that Gen. Petreus has done his homework, has been immersed in the culture of that part of the world and thoroughly understands what makes his enemy tick.

Thump your chest all you want about the constitution. We are at war for the safety of our nation and the hearts and minds of those who would commit evil crimes against us and their fellow man. Gen. Petreus has a difficult job to do.

Now, about this constitution so many conservatives want to hold in violate. Let me ask this: why are Conservative politicians and posters on this board so vehement about defending the constitution, preserving the constitution and honoring whatever they think is the original intent of the constitution all while wanting to rewrite it to serve the politics du jour?

How's that 14th amendment look? How about the effort to repeal the 17th amendment? And how much do you honor the first amendment whenever you demand a house of worship should not be built where those who fund that house of worship want to build it?

But, a call to ban plastic handguns or cop killer bullets and those same brave Conservatives scream about an impending constitutional crisis over the second amendment.

Sure. The constitution and originalists will proudly proclabothers YOUim their love of the document. Except for a few pesky parts.

I reflect what QW stated...

Kinda like you trying to get rid of the parts you don't like?

And that would INCLUDE ...the parts IGNORED...

Bush completely followed the Constitution. Sorry if that still bothers you. If the people were serious about getting OUT of these exercises? They would have insisted upon it...and if the Senate were serious too?

THEY would have pulled funding with the POTUS left with ZERO choice but to order withdrawl.

Where are we?



So tell us? Who's serious?

But back upon context? Patreus is OUT OF LINE and should be chastised as Patton was for his words...

Liberty is not without consequence. And a worthy trade to exercise it.

 

[G.T.]

I understand that the Preacher is doing the wrong thing, that's established.... 110%; however, I think that the General drawing more attention to this would-be miniscule event (if the press wasn't so fawkt) conveys a weakness.

Why does it convey a weakness?

Well, to me, if you're going to "not" say things because they're offensive.....do so because you have morals. Don't "not" say them out of fear, though, ever. This is *how* the enemy, in my opinion, can measure their effects on taking "down" our way of life over here.

This is literally a component of "death to America!" when we begin appeasing CRAZY PEOPLE'S sensibilities at the expense of expressing our own beliefs, albeit these are fawkt beliefs.

The back-lash, yea they'll be emboldened. But what really is the price we pay for being quote unquote "free," from the on-set of this nation? That's what I have a problem with. Especially from a guy who's sworn to defend the Constitution.

I hate this Fla. Preacher, but here's a quote at least that I can get behind:

"We think it's time to turn the tables, and instead of possibly blaming us for what could happen, we put the blame where it belongs — on the people who would do it," he said. "And maybe instead of addressing us, we should address radical Islam and send a very clear warning that they are not to retaliate in any form."

 

[G.T.]

The difference is we have been invading and controlling Muslim lands for years, which is what caused 9/11 in the first place. If Muslims were here slaughtering Americans over WMDs that did not exist and burning bibles, what would this preacher be telling Americans to do then?

You realize, we're the Americans.......the ones who shop at grocery stores on Sundays and walk the Malls in unison....no harm no foul......

meanwhile........

They're the people who are nutty enough to strap bombs to themselves and blow up THEIR OWN PEOPLE'S marketplaces, etc. killing innocent women and children.....OF THEIR OWN CULTURE.

If you're going to prescribe any sort of logic to what your theories are, you cannot exclude the fact that these people have been crazies for Centuries now, and either they're forcibly taken AT LEAST into the "Enlightenment" era, where people can peacably co-habitate.......................or else there will continue to be perpetual war.

Canada, Mexico have oil and resources. We're not invading them. Saudi Arabia has oil and resources, we're not invading them. Russia. We didn't steal Iraqi oil.

Perhaps we really do seek to achieve stability so that FAIR TRADE of these resources can occur without perpetual violence brought upon the Region by PREHISTORIC THINKERS.

 

[Mr. Shaman]

What'd be really interesting would be to see 20 (or, so) battle-hardened combat-Vets do a voluntary-redeployment TO Florida, and.....after giving EVERYONE (there) 24 hours notice....would proceed (on the day o' The Event) to kick-the-livin'-SHIT outta ANYONE who (even) ATTEMPTS to light-up a Koran!!!

 

[RetiredGySgt]

What'd be really interesting would be to see 20 (or, so) battle-hardened combat-Vets do a voluntary-redeployment TO Florida, and.....after giving EVERYONE (there) 24 hours notice....would proceed (on the day o' The Event) to kick-the-livin'-SHIT outta ANYONE who (even) ATTEMPTS to light-up a Koran!!!

If they announced it and tried it they would be arrested, rightly so and JAILED. You see pea brain, the pastor is NOT breaking any laws and is exercising his 1st Amendment RIGHTS.

 

[Mr. Shaman]

What'd be really interesting would be to see 20 (or, so) battle-hardened combat-Vets do a voluntary-redeployment TO Florida, and.....after giving EVERYONE (there) 24 hours notice....would proceed (on the day o' The Event) to kick-the-livin'-SHIT outta ANYONE who (even) ATTEMPTS to light-up a Koran!!!

If they announced it and tried it they would be arrested, rightly so and JAILED. You see pea brain, the pastor is NOT breaking any laws and is exercising his 1st Amendment RIGHTS.

Stand-DOWN, old-fart. Your retirement is showing....... ​

"America, in our times of greatest stress and trials, we have shown the world why we are to be looked up to. Let us stand together and do so again."

 

[MaggieMae]

Complete and total Fail


You're the dipshit arguing that a few knuckleheads burning a book in Florida is not protected by the 1st Amendment because in your completely uniformed and wholly retarded "opinion," it constitutes a "material and substantial" disruption of military operations on the other side of the globe. And I'm the moron.

Oh the irony.

If some of the Afghan tribes that have already helped ferret out Taliban strongholds suddenly turned against Patreaus (or any other military operation) using an event such a burning of their sacred book, yes, I would certainly classify that event occuring on THIS side of the globe as having been material and substantial. I wasn't implying that the court case would be used as precedent; merely pointing out that the USSC would quite possibly make another unique judgment if it came to that.

If you don't get that, then duh...yes, you are.

I'm going to go ahead and give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you're just a rather pedestrian troll and don't actually believe that steaming pile of horseshit you just posted. Because if you do then you're really really really really fucking dumb.

What do you do when not throwing hissy fits?

 

[MaggieMae]

I've disagreed with several people about this but Maggie Mae here is the only dipshit I've seen so far that actually thinks this isn't covered by the 1st Amendment. Hell, even the wingtards that got their panties in a bunch over the ground-zero mosque knew better than to suggest it wasn't a protected right.

Congrats Maggie...

Omg, what would Sarah say about that^? I'd say it's fairly clear where you might stand on many issues.

And I never said it IS NOT covered by the First Amendment, liar. I tossed out some information that might give rise to such an event POSSIBLY being excluded from First Amendment protections.

Backpedal fail.

 

[MaggieMae]

I mean, what is the guise our Red White and Blue fights under? Defending the Constitution?

I don't support the 9/11 burning of the Quran; however, opposing it on the grounds that it will create more Terrorists is an absolute contradiction to the Mission of our Armed forces.

Yes, it will put those who Volunteered to Defend the Constitution in presumably more danger. But these are the very hard-line ideals they're doing it for........The Freedom to think and express how you feel, no matter how distasteful or who doesn't like it. I think the General is out of line on this one.

Here's the deal? Patreus is OUT OF LINE.

This preist in Gainesville Florida is quite within his bounds to do as he likes.

It's his Constutional RIGHT. Now whether or not he get traction or it will relegate himself to obscurity is the result of him exercising his right.

That is for the receivers of his message to decide.

But THAT is the price to live in a free society...where a jackass can exercise their right to be just that.

If it inflames those overseas that do NOT have nor can exercise such rights?

Perhaps they should rexamine where they live?

The Troops are already UNDER duress by being AT WAR with folks that don't have the luxury to exercise what this preist is doing.

Then it seems to me that those over there watching have a very crucial exercise before them...

LIBERTY...[An ALL OR NOTHING proposition] or a life of slavery under something they practice NOW that is a terrible one-way street that cannot and WILL NOT afford them to do what this Jackass preist in Florida is doing.

General Patreus IS out of line. He is Defying the Constitution and precisely the First Amendment. And should be CHASTISED by command for speaking out of turn

Now General P? I Like you...Don't SCREW IT UP.


Is he going to lead by example...or become PART of what he is supposedly fighting over there just merely for Political reasons.

General? WAKE UP.

~SSGT *T*...

So I'm curious. Do you support the protests and disgusting signage by the Westboro Baptist Church members at funerals of our fallen soldiers and Marines? After all, aren't they simply exercising their First Amendment rights?

 

[manifold]

So I'm curious. Do you support the protests and disgusting signage by the Westboro Baptist Church members at funerals of our fallen soldiers and Marines? After all, aren't they simply exercising their First Amendment rights?

I support their RIGHT to do so.

But unlike you I'm not a believer in authoritarian fascism.

 

[Jarhead]

I mean, what is the guise our Red White and Blue fights under? Defending the Constitution?

I don't support the 9/11 burning of the Quran; however, opposing it on the grounds that it will create more Terrorists is an absolute contradiction to the Mission of our Armed forces.

Yes, it will put those who Volunteered to Defend the Constitution in presumably more danger. But these are the very hard-line ideals they're doing it for........The Freedom to think and express how you feel, no matter how distasteful or who doesn't like it. I think the General is out of line on this one.

Here's the deal? Patreus is OUT OF LINE.

This preist in Gainesville Florida is quite within his bounds to do as he likes.

It's his Constutional RIGHT. Now whether or not he get traction or it will relegate himself to obscurity is the result of him exercising his right.

That is for the receivers of his message to decide.

But THAT is the price to live in a free society...where a jackass can exercise their right to be just that.

If it inflames those overseas that do NOT have nor can exercise such rights?

Perhaps they should rexamine where they live?

The Troops are already UNDER duress by being AT WAR with folks that don't have the luxury to exercise what this preist is doing.

Then it seems to me that those over there watching have a very crucial exercise before them...

LIBERTY...[An ALL OR NOTHING proposition] or a life of slavery under something they practice NOW that is a terrible one-way street that cannot and WILL NOT afford them to do what this Jackass preist in Florida is doing.

General Patreus IS out of line. He is Defying the Constitution and precisely the First Amendment. And should be CHASTISED by command for speaking out of turn

Now General P? I Like you...Don't SCREW IT UP.


Is he going to lead by example...or become PART of what he is supposedly fighting over there just merely for Political reasons.

General? WAKE UP.

~SSGT *T*...

So I'm curious. Do you support the protests and disgusting signage by the Westboro Baptist Church members at funerals of our fallen soldiers and Marines? After all, aren't they simply exercising their First Amendment rights?

Supporting or not supporting has nothing to do with one's first amendment rights.

I do not support what the WBC memebers do, but I do not try to stop them against their will.
I do not support flag burners, but I do not try to stop them against their will.
I do not support the building of the Community Center/ Mosque in lower manhattan, but I will not try to stop them against their will.
Patreus does not support the burning of the Qaran, but he, in no way, tried to stop it against the will of the burners.

When will you folks get off the whole "just becuase I do not support something, it implies that I do not feel they have the right" thing...

Jeez.....Dont I have the first ammendment right to denounce an action; express my distaste for an action...without me being told I am against someone elses first ammendment right?

Or do I NOT have a first ammendment right?

 

[LibocalypseNow]

OMG! Some kooks in back-water nowhere U.S.A. are burning some Korans! All is lost!!...Seriously,if the U.S. General in charge of the War in Afghanistan is panicking over this non-issue,the Afghan War is likely lost. If you haven't won those "Hearts & Minds" after all these years,it is time to wrap it up and come home. If a couple of kooks burning Korans here in the U.S. is going to sway Afghans to support the Taliban and kill Americans,i would have to say that thing is over. Our General shouldn't be panicking over this. It's actually kind of embarrassing.

 

[Wicked Jester]

OMG! Some kooks in back-water nowhere U.S.A. are burning some Korans! All is lost!!...Seriously,if the U.S. General in charge of the War in Afghanistan is panicking over this non-issue,the Afghan War is likely lost. If you haven't won those "Hearts & Minds" after all these years,it is time to wrap it up and come home. If a couple of kooks burning Korans here in the U.S. is going to sway Afghans to support the Taliban and kill Americans,i would have to say that thing is over. Our General shouldn't be panicking over this. It's actually kind of embarrassing.

He's panicking?.......I've seen no evidence of that. He stated his opinion. And he's right.

But hey, those losers have every right to burn the Korans, as abjectly stupid as it is. If it costs even one american life, civilian or military, THEY have that cross to bear.