Petreus is out of line

[Middleman]

So, is Pretreus saying that Americans should cowtow to Islamic sensitivities in order to avoid conflict? We should not engage in provocative forms of free speech because it might spur the peace-lovers to take up arms?

 

[LibocalypseNow]

The fact that our General in charge of Afghanistan is so worried about these few loons burning Korans,really does say it all about the War in Afghanistan. We are now losing there. It's official in my opinion.

 

[G.T.]

an officer's ultimate obligation is to protect the men and women for which he is responsible. i can't fault him for doing that, nor do i think he's out of line.

The Ultimate Obligation is to Defend the Constitution.

I don't want Americans to stop practicing their rights on account of Murderous Psychos. Do you?

It might be the easy conclusion to draw. It certainly fits the template of an American citizen with a (excuse me but it's true) George W. Bush-like world view. A narrow, inexperienced, border-line xenophobic world view.

I suggest that Gen. Petreus has done his homework, has been immersed in the culture of that part of the world and thoroughly understands what makes his enemy tick.

Thump your chest all you want about the constitution. We are at war for the safety of our nation and the hearts and minds of those who would commit evil crimes against us and their fellow man. Gen. Petreus has a difficult job to do.

Now, about this constitution so many conservatives want to hold in violate. Let me ask this: why are Conservative politicians and posters on this board so vehement about defending the constitution, preserving the constitution and honoring whatever they think is the original intent of the constitution all while wanting to rewrite it to serve the politics du jour?

How's that 14th amendment look? How about the effort to repeal the 17th amendment? And how much do you honor the first amendment whenever you demand a house of worship should not be built where those who fund that house of worship want to build it?

But, a call to ban plastic handguns or cop killer bullets and those same brave Conservatives scream about an impending constitutional crisis over the second amendment.

Sure. The constitution and originalists will proudly proclaim their love of the document. Except for a few pesky parts.

Too bad everything you just said "Conservatives" do, is not me. Anyhoot, I understand that Petreaus is RIGHT, I'm not questioning that it WILL fan their flames. I know that the General understands the enemy.

My position is that a free Country does not change its tact to appease an Enemy's standards.

If some Muslims cannot differentiate what this Nutty Church does from most of America (you know, who think it's shameful they'd do such a thing), and instead of using Logic and Reason they use Terrorism and Murder, then I don't think the right approach is to let their illogic, LACK of reason dictate how OUR Country operates.

 

[G.T.]

I mean, what is the guise our Red White and Blue fights under? Defending the Constitution?

I don't support the 9/11 burning of the Quran; however, opposing it on the grounds that it will create more Terrorists is an absolute contradiction to the Mission of our Armed forces.

Yes, it will put those who Volunteered to Defend the Constitution in presumably more danger. But these are the very hard-line ideals they're doing it for........The Freedom to think and express how you feel, no matter how distasteful or who doesn't like it. I think the General is out of line on this one.

So you're saying that Patreus (who actually risks his life to defend our nation) is not entitled to speak freely?

Fuck that, GT. He has earned the right - far more than most of us have.

NOPE. Didn't say that at all. This post is moot.

 

[Wicked Jester]

Burning the Koran is fucking stupid. Although I fully support the right to do so, it's fucking stupid.

Seriously, what's it going to do?.....Is it going to stop the radicals from misinterpreting it?...Is it going to stop the nutjobs and their twisted agenda?

The whole thing is abjectly ridiculous.

 

[G.T.]

The fact that our General in charge of Afghanistan is so worried about these few loons burning Korans,really does say it all about the War in Afghanistan. We are now losing there. It's official in my opinion.

Define losing. Then, look up stats of us vs. them, death-toll, Battles as they occured (how many won, how many lost?), Missions as they occured (how many accomplished, how many failed?), objectives achieved vs. failed, etc......................... then come back and at least pretend that you've informed your opinion of whether or not we're winning the war before you speak on it again. That's how edumacation is supposed to work, not by reading headlines and making emotion-based opinions.

 

[xotoxi]

I mean, what is the guise our Red White and Blue fights under? Defending the Constitution?

I don't support the 9/11 burning of the Quran; however, opposing it on the grounds that it will create more Terrorists is an absolute contradiction to the Mission of our Armed forces.

Yes, it will put those who Volunteered to Defend the Constitution in presumably more danger. But these are the very hard-line ideals they're doing it for........The Freedom to think and express how you feel, no matter how distasteful or who doesn't like it. I think the General is out of line on this one.

I disagree.

He is not saying that they should not have the right to burn the Korans...he is just voicing his opinion that he thinks it is a bad idea.

He does not have the authority to stop them, but he has the right to voice his opposition to their plan.

 

[G.T.]

Burning the Koran is fucking stupid. Although I fully support the right to do so, it's fucking stupid.

Seriously, what's it going to do?.....Is it going to stop the radicals from misinterpreting it?...Is it going to stop the nutjobs and their twisted agenda?

The whole thing is abjectly ridiculous.

Agreed.

 

[LibocalypseNow]

Burning the Koran is fucking stupid. Although I fully support the right to do so, it's fucking stupid.

Seriously, what's it going to do?.....Is it going to stop the radicals from misinterpreting it?...Is it going to stop the nutjobs and their twisted agenda?

The whole thing is abjectly ridiculous.

Bingo! If the General in charge of the War in Afghanistan is panicking over a couple of wackos burning Korans,that War is now officially lost. Forget the Free Speech aspect. The fact he's panicking over such a non-issue tells the real story of what's going on over there. It is very sad.

 

[G.T.]

I mean, what is the guise our Red White and Blue fights under? Defending the Constitution?

I don't support the 9/11 burning of the Quran; however, opposing it on the grounds that it will create more Terrorists is an absolute contradiction to the Mission of our Armed forces.

Yes, it will put those who Volunteered to Defend the Constitution in presumably more danger. But these are the very hard-line ideals they're doing it for........The Freedom to think and express how you feel, no matter how distasteful or who doesn't like it. I think the General is out of line on this one.

I disagree.

He is not saying that they should not have the right to burn the Korans...he is just voicing his opinion that he thinks it is a bad idea.

He does not have the authority to stop them, but he has the right to voice his opposition to their plan.

I know how to differentiate that. I know that he's not attempting to pose that they HAVE NO RIGHT. I'm just saying that I think that a man in a leadership position in fighting this war on terrorism is coming off like we do not have the courage of our convictions, as far as freedom of speech goes, and instead is coming off like "guys, please don't piss of these crazies who are already trying to kill us because they might want to kill us."

Guns don't kill people, people kill people.

Book burning doesn't put our troops in harms way............Terrorism does.

 

[Nosmo King]

The Ultimate Obligation is to Defend the Constitution.

I don't want Americans to stop practicing their rights on account of Murderous Psychos. Do you?

It might be the easy conclusion to draw. It certainly fits the template of an American citizen with a (excuse me but it's true) George W. Bush-like world view. A narrow, inexperienced, border-line xenophobic world view.

I suggest that Gen. Petreus has done his homework, has been immersed in the culture of that part of the world and thoroughly understands what makes his enemy tick.

Thump your chest all you want about the constitution. We are at war for the safety of our nation and the hearts and minds of those who would commit evil crimes against us and their fellow man. Gen. Petreus has a difficult job to do.

Now, about this constitution so many conservatives want to hold in violate. Let me ask this: why are Conservative politicians and posters on this board so vehement about defending the constitution, preserving the constitution and honoring whatever they think is the original intent of the constitution all while wanting to rewrite it to serve the politics du jour?

How's that 14th amendment look? How about the effort to repeal the 17th amendment? And how much do you honor the first amendment whenever you demand a house of worship should not be built where those who fund that house of worship want to build it?

But, a call to ban plastic handguns or cop killer bullets and those same brave Conservatives scream about an impending constitutional crisis over the second amendment.

Sure. The constitution and originalists will proudly proclaim their love of the document. Except for a few pesky parts.

Too bad everything you just said "Conservatives" do, is not me. Anyhoot, I understand that Petreaus is RIGHT, I'm not questioning that it WILL fan their flames. I know that the General understands the enemy.

My position is that a free Country does not change its tact to appease an Enemy's standards.

The Islamic perception is our country's tact IS to allow the Koran to be burned. They will not know of any opposition to it. Their news is as biased as any here. Al Jeezera/Fox same thing. Is our tact to further insult, humiliate and piss off each and every Muslim on the planet? We're not changing tacts. We're (as far as Gen. Peterus goes) trying to assure the broader Muslim world that the vast majority of Americans simply want to live in peace and co-exist with the Islamic world. We don't want to Americanize their culture. We don't want the Stars and Stripes to fly over Mecca or Medina. And we don't want to make a bad situation worse by feeding the fears and suspicions of all the Muslims everywhere.

If some Muslims cannot differentiate what this Nutty Church does from most of America (you know, who think it's shameful they'd do such a thing), and instead of using Logic and Reason they use Terrorism and Murder, then I don't think the right approach is to let their illogic, LACK of reason dictate how OUR Country operates.

Our country does not operate by burning Korans. That's the whole point.

 

[xotoxi]

I know how to differentiate that. I know that he's not attempting to pose that they HAVE NO RIGHT. I'm just saying that I think that a man in a leadership position in fighting this war on terrorism is coming off like we do not have the courage of our convictions, as far as freedom of speech goes, and instead is coming off like "guys, please don't piss of these crazies who are already trying to kill us because they might want to kill us."

I think of it as more like "Stop being morons and acting like the stupid jackassess that we are fighing."

 

[G.T.]

I know how to differentiate that. I know that he's not attempting to pose that they HAVE NO RIGHT. I'm just saying that I think that a man in a leadership position in fighting this war on terrorism is coming off like we do not have the courage of our convictions, as far as freedom of speech goes, and instead is coming off like "guys, please don't piss of these crazies who are already trying to kill us because they might want to kill us."

I think of it as more like "Stop being morons and acting like the stupid jackassess that we are fighing."

And I agree with the notion, whole-heartedly. Problem is, coming from our General it makes our position look weak no matter what.

 

[Wicked Jester]

I mean, what is the guise our Red White and Blue fights under? Defending the Constitution?

I don't support the 9/11 burning of the Quran; however, opposing it on the grounds that it will create more Terrorists is an absolute contradiction to the Mission of our Armed forces.

Yes, it will put those who Volunteered to Defend the Constitution in presumably more danger. But these are the very hard-line ideals they're doing it for........The Freedom to think and express how you feel, no matter how distasteful or who doesn't like it. I think the General is out of line on this one.

I disagree.

He is not saying that they should not have the right to burn the Korans...he is just voicing his opinion that he thinks it is a bad idea.

He does not have the authority to stop them, but he has the right to voice his opposition to their plan.

Exactly!.....Just look at what happened when that BS story about a Koran being flushed down the toilet at gitmo surfaced.......The radicals went bonkers. Innocent people lost their lives over it......The whackjobs lose their minds over stupid friggin' cartoons for christ sakes.

This minister, pastor, or whatever he calls himself is a friggin' idiot....It's stupid, and will accomplish absolutely nothing.

 

[G.T.]

Nosmo, unfortunately our Country operates by doing whatever the fuck it wants, with any book.

I see this exactly the same way I see the illogic behind banning guns.

I can still kill someone with a potato-gun, (made with hair-spray and pvc pipe), but Banning potato guns isn't going to stop me from being a killer. The killer kills, the weapon of choice is a moot point.

If someone's fucking nutty enough to suicide bomb themselves, then THEY'RE FUCKING NUTS! End of discussion.

 

[Nosmo King]

Nosmo, unfortunately our Country operates by doing whatever the fuck it wants, with any book.

I see this exactly the same way I see the illogic behind banning guns.

I can still kill someone with a potato-gun, (made with hair-spray and pvc pipe), but Banning potato guns isn't going to stop me from being a killer. The killer kills, the weapon of choice is a moot point.

If someone's fucking nutty enough to suicide bomb themselves, then THEY'RE FUCKING NUTS! End of discussion.

Okay. Let's play in this ball park awhile. If you ban handguns, they will not be so readily available. If guns are available and easy to get, there will be more guns. More guns gives passionate arguments a greater chance to devolve into tragedy. Hence, more gun violence.

Inflaming Muslim passion by desecrating their holy text will fan the flames of terrorism. Gee? Can we find examples of that already? By not insulting Muslims, perhaps the justice of our cause can be understood by those same Muslims. Fewer insults (fewer guns) lowers the temperature of the discontented (passionate arguments) and therefore reduces the chances of tragic endings.

 

[xotoxi]

I know how to differentiate that. I know that he's not attempting to pose that they HAVE NO RIGHT. I'm just saying that I think that a man in a leadership position in fighting this war on terrorism is coming off like we do not have the courage of our convictions, as far as freedom of speech goes, and instead is coming off like "guys, please don't piss of these crazies who are already trying to kill us because they might want to kill us."

I think of it as more like "Stop being morons and acting like the stupid jackassess that we are fighing."

And I agree with the notion, whole-heartedly. Problem is, coming from our General it makes our position look weak no matter what.

I don't see how it makes us look weak. I think it makes the pastor look more like the idiot that he is.

I would only be concerned with it coming from a General that it might appear like official policy or something. I expect him to be called to an emergency meeting with Obama pretty soon.

 

[LibocalypseNow]

Yea because if those loons don't burn those Korans,the brutal Muslim Terrorists who gleefully saw peoples' heads off,will suddenly fall in love with us. Seriously,Petraeus is not only out of line but he's also incredibly f*cking silly.

 

[manifold]

an officer's ultimate obligation is to protect the men and women for which he is responsible. i can't fault him for doing that, nor do i think he's out of line.

Fail.

By that logic he should never send any of his troops on combat missions or put them in war zones.

I agree with G.T. this time. Patraeus is wrong and out of line.

 

[G.T.]

Nosmo, unfortunately our Country operates by doing whatever the fuck it wants, with any book.

I see this exactly the same way I see the illogic behind banning guns.

I can still kill someone with a potato-gun, (made with hair-spray and pvc pipe), but Banning potato guns isn't going to stop me from being a killer. The killer kills, the weapon of choice is a moot point.

If someone's fucking nutty enough to suicide bomb themselves, then THEY'RE FUCKING NUTS! End of discussion.

Okay. Let's play in this ball park awhile. If you ban handguns, they will not be so readily available. If guns are available and easy to get, there will be more guns. More guns gives passionate arguments a greater chance to devolve into tragedy. Hence, more gun violence.

Inflaming Muslim passion by desecrating their holy text will fan the flames of terrorism. Gee? Can we find examples of that already? By not insulting Muslims, perhaps the justice of our cause can be understood by those same Muslims. Fewer insults (fewer guns) lowers the temperature of the discontented (passionate arguments) and therefore reduces the chances of tragic endings.

I disagree two-fold.

I think it takes a touched person to kill someone. But, regardless of that, I think that someone's soft temper should not be allowed to interfere with other persons' freedoms. One rotten apple should not be allowed to spoil the bunch. That's not freedom to me, and I'd rather die by gunfire than be banned from guns because there's crazy bastards out there. That's living for something, in my opinion, but there's a lot of things to live for and that's neither here nor there, but it just makes life more precious in my opinion to live it with little idealisms like that.

This relates to the story. So long as we allow for the standard of living in the dark ages, then we deserve everything that comes with that. If we're not willing to fight against that, then LET'S GET THE FUCK OUT OF THE MIDDLE EAST ALTOGETHER.