Personal Responsibility

[manifold]

An oft stated political "value" that I see posted here repeatedly by self-professed conservative republicans is the importance of personal responsibility. As a concept, I happen to agree completely. However, the way this alleged "value" is used to debate specific issues comes across as a thinly veiled euphamism for the virtue of selfishness and the "every man for himself" mantra.

Does personal responsibility REALLY mean every man for himself?

 

[Ravi]

An oft stated political "value" that I see posted here repeatedly by self-professed conservative republicans is the importance of personal responsibility. As a concept, I happen to agree completely. However, the way this alleged "value" is used to debate specific issues comes across as a thinly veiled euphamism for the virtue of selfishness and the "every man for himself" mantra.

Does personal responsibility REALLY mean every man for himself?

No, of course not.

Every man for himself is anarchy.

 

[Bern80]

An oft stated political "value" that I see posted here repeatedly by self-professed conservative republicans is the importance of personal responsibility. As a concept, I happen to agree completely. However, the way this alleged "value" is used to debate specific issues comes across as a thinly veiled euphamism for the virtue of selfishness and the "every man for himself" mantra.

Does personal responsibility REALLY mean every man for himself?

Not quite. For me it's more like, the only person you should really count on is yourself. Once a peson reaches adulthood I don't believe they have the right to expect other people to provide things for them. Expectation is the key concept in my mind. And I don't feel other people need to feel obligated to help others. It is a good thing to help people, but they should not be made to feel it is their obligation or responsibility to do so, because inherently that shifts responsibility from one person to another.

Part of it is also acknowledging the things you have control over. That is one of the fundamental differences I see between conservative values and liberal values. This often comes up when talking about the haves and the have nots. And there seems to be two distinct opinions about how people got that way.

The right believes (with exceptions of course) that rich people are rich because most of them worked for it. Poor people are poor, ultimately because they choose to be.

The left seems to believe (with exceptions of course) that rich people are rich because they took advantage of people, were born with a silver spoon, etc and that poor people are victims and are poor through no fault of their own.

That quite well defines the personal responsibility debate in my mind. I was taught by my dad, that even if someone or something intentionally gets in your way (i.e. even if there is some force intentionally trying to hold poor people down) what real good does it do to sit and complain about it, rather than do all you can to achieve in spite of it (which often can be done if one is willing to put forth the effort). that is what I mean by personal responsibilty. I make $12 an hour right now. I also know that there are no impossible barriers in the way of me making more, it is simply a matter of whether I have the motivation to overcome them

 

[manifold]

No, of course not.

Every man for himself is anarchy.

*<sigh>

More profound insight from USMB's resident black & white semantician.

 

[AllieBaba]

An oft stated political "value" that I see posted here repeatedly by self-professed conservative republicans is the importance of personal responsibility. As a concept, I happen to agree completely. However, the way this alleged "value" is used to debate specific issues comes across as a thinly veiled euphamism for the virtue of selfishness and the "every man for himself" mantra.

Does personal responsibility REALLY mean every man for himself?

Fiddlesticks, dickweed.
Personal responsibility means not expecting others to do for you what you are capable of doing yourself, and helping, personally, your fellow man who is unable to do for himself. Believing that you should help yourself does not preclude helping others...or even accepting or asking for help when the need arises. It means doing your very best, and helping others to accomplish their goals when you are in a position to do so.

Doesn't sound like every man for himself to me.

 

[Ravi]

Personal responsibility can also mean paying your taxes, Bern. And having the expectation that what you pay contributes to the well being of the entire country. For instance, I am perfectly willing to give my fair share for the privilege of living in this country, having decent drinking water, a military to protect the country, a system of transportation that allows me to go anywhere...and all the other things we've all come to expect, including the absence of beggars on the street.

Though actually, that is inherently selfish of me, isn't it?

 

[Ravi]

*<sigh>

More profound insight from USMB's resident black & white semantician.

lol, I was just kick starting your thread, doofus. I tried several other answers and decided, selfishly perhaps, to let someone else post something.

 

[busara]

Fiddlesticks, dickweed.
Personal responsibility means not expecting others to do for you what you are capable of doing yourself, and helping, personally, your fellow man who is unable to do for himself. Believing that you should help yourself does not preclude helping others...or even accepting or asking for help when the need arises. It means doing your very best, and helping others to accomplish their goals when you are in a position to do so.

Doesn't sound like every man for himself to me.

was name calling really necessary? show some maturity allie

 

[AllieBaba]

Personal responsibility can also mean paying your taxes, Bern. And having the expectation that what you pay contributes to the well being of the entire country. For instance, I am perfectly willing to give my fair share for the privilege of living in this country, having decent drinking water, a military to protect the country, a system of transportation that allows me to go anywhere...and all the other things we've all come to expect, including the absence of beggars on the street.

Though actually, that is inherently selfish of me, isn't it?

Yes! Damn selfish to want clean water and a safe place to live, you self-centered leftist loon!

 

[manifold]

Personal responsibility means not expecting others to do for you what you are capable of doing yourself...

I'll tell that to my wife the next time she wants her cookies.


damn it, I just can't not get silly!

 

[AllieBaba]

was name calling really necessary? show some maturity allie

I am only using Mani's middle names......his feelings are not hurt, I promise you.

 

[AllieBaba]

I'll tell that to my wife the next time she wants her cookies.


damn it, I just can't not get silly!

Ah, but expecting them to provide for themselves..and choosing to do things for others are two different things.

I expect people to raise their own children. But I am willing to babysit for them.

Besides which, your wife is actually part and parcel of yourself.

 

[manifold]

Personal responsibility means not expecting others to do for you what you are capable of doing yourself...

Does this mean that the personal responsiblity argument does not apply to the universal healthcare debate since most people do not have the capacity to be their own physician?

 

[AllieBaba]

No. We of course must obtain services from others...and we expect to pay for them when we do.

 

[manifold]

No. We of course must obtain services from others...and we expect to pay for them when we do.

And what of those lacking the wherewithal to pay?

 

[Ravi]

No. We of course must obtain services from others...and we expect to pay for them when we do.

But you would. You'd pay taxes.

 

[AllieBaba]

No kidding? Do you have a point, or are you just wandering around making noise?

 

[Bern80]

Personal responsibility can also mean paying your taxes, Bern. And having the expectation that what you pay contributes to the well being of the entire country. For instance, I am perfectly willing to give my fair share for the privilege of living in this country, having decent drinking water, a military to protect the country, a system of transportation that allows me to go anywhere...and all the other things we've all come to expect, including the absence of beggars on the street.

Though actually, that is inherently selfish of me, isn't it?

That's a hell of a rationalization. I don't have problem paying for some of things you mentioned. It isn't reasonable to expect an individual to defend himself from an invading army or build roads. I have a problem paying taxes that pay for things people should be responsible for themselves.

 

[Ravi]

That's a hell of a rationalization. I don't have problem paying for some of things you mentioned. It isn't reasonable to expect an individual to defend himself from an invading army or build roads. I have a problem paying taxes that pay for things people should be responsible for themselves.

I'm responsible for the crime rate? I'm responsible for beggars? I'm responsible for communicable disease?

I don't think so.

 

[AllieBaba]

Wanna bet? The policies you endorse play right into all those things.