" Personal Responsibility," a conservative mantra- or is it??

[Maple]

Definition of mandate:

'A judicial command, order, or precept, written or oral, from a court; a direction that a court has the authority to give and an individual is bound to obey."

Did you know that wearing clothing in public is a mandate in all 50 states??

Did you know that having a valid driver's licence to drive a car- is a mandate in most states??

Did you know that it is mandated that an individual provides care for their children, housing, food and clothing or be jailed for neglect?

Conservatives "tout" personal responsibility, yet are reluctant to enforce it with a mandate. Do they think they can wish it true?

I am totally against Obamacare as it is a federal takeover of healthcare, but I am not against a state mandate and state control of healthcare. Personally, I have become sick and tired of paying for people who show up in our emergency rooms, drove their new car there, come in with the latest version of the I-pad, while I pick up the tab for their medical costs through higher premiums and higher taxes. What say you? Are you a conservative who believes in " personal responsibility," and if so, how are you going to implement "personal responsibility," when it comes to health care without a mandate to do so? Wish it true?

 

[Maple]

Definition of mandate:

'A judicial command, order, or precept, written or oral, from a court; a direction that a court has the authority to give and an individual is bound to obey."

Did you know that wearing clothing in public is a mandate in all 50 states??

Did you know that having a valid driver's licence to drive a car- is a mandate in most states??

Did you know that it is mandated that an individual provides care for their children, housing, food and clothing or be jailed for neglect?

Conservatives "tout" personal responsibility, yet are reluctant to enforce it with a mandate. Do they think they can wish it true?

I am totally against Obamacare as it is a federal takeover of healthcare, but I am not against a state mandate and state control of healthcare. Personally, I have become sick and tired of paying for people who show up in our emergency rooms, drove their new car there, come in with the latest version of the I-pad, while I pick up the tab for their medical costs through higher premiums and higher taxes. What say you? Are you a conservative who believes in " personal responsibility," and if so, how are you going to implement "personal responsibility," when it comes to health care without a mandate to do so? Wish it true?

I am waiting- conservatives for your reply.

 

[Truthmatters]

it is not a takeover of the healthcare system no matter how many times you repete that lie

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

Personal responsibility is a moral value and it has nothing to do with which side of the isle your on.

 

[Truthmatters]

Then quit pretending it is

 

[Maple]

it is not a takeover of the healthcare system no matter how many times you repete that lie

It is a total and complete takeover of healthcare because it is designed to throw us all into a medicaid type system whether we like it or not. That's a fact.

Also it can not be a one size fits all. Different states have different rates of disease, for instance, in my state we have a higher incidence of MS, whereas Kentucky has a higher incidence of Obesity and type II diabetes. Car insurance takes the rate of accidents by using zip codes and determines from those stats what you are quoted for car insurance. Health insurance does the same thing, it takes the rate and incidence of the disease in your area, the cost of treatment for those diseases, in your area and determines the quote. A national " one size fits all system will never, ever work. It is a state issue- period- not a national one.

What say you about " personal responsibility" and the mandate to purchase your own health care plan?

 

[Maple]

Personal responsibility is a moral value and it has nothing to do with which side of the isle your on.

I am tired of paying for other people's immorality. If they want to be immoral that's fine with me as long as they do it on their OWN DIME.

 

[Greenbeard]

It is a total and complete takeover of healthcare because it is designed to throw us all into a medicaid type system whether we like it or not. That's a fact.

Also it can not be a one size fits all. Different states have different rates of disease, for instance, in my state we have a higher incidence of MS, whereas Kentucky has a higher incidence of Obesity and type II diabetes. Car insurance takes the rate of accidents by using zip codes and determines from those stats what you are quoted for car insurance. Health insurance does the same thing, it takes the rate and incidence of the disease in your area, the cost of treatment for those diseases, in your area and determines the quote. A national " one size fits all system will never, ever work. It is a state issue- period- not a national one.

I think you're confusing Medicare and Medicaid. Medicare is the national program (primarily for the elderly), Medicaid (primarily for poor children and women) is the one that varies from state-to-state, is run by state governments, and is individualized to that state's particular needs.

Anyway, unless you're low-income, you're not going to be eligible for Medicaid.

 

[dblack]

Conservatives "tout" personal responsibility, yet are reluctant to enforce it with a mandate. Do they think they can wish it true?

Dunno about 'Conservatives', but the mandate is the opposite of personal responsibility. Personal responsibility is about making your own decisions and being accountable for the outcome. The mandate takes the decision away from the individual and the makes the state accountable for the outcome.

 

[Maple]

It is a total and complete takeover of healthcare because it is designed to throw us all into a medicaid type system whether we like it or not. That's a fact.

Also it can not be a one size fits all. Different states have different rates of disease, for instance, in my state we have a higher incidence of MS, whereas Kentucky has a higher incidence of Obesity and type II diabetes. Car insurance takes the rate of accidents by using zip codes and determines from those stats what you are quoted for car insurance. Health insurance does the same thing, it takes the rate and incidence of the disease in your area, the cost of treatment for those diseases, in your area and determines the quote. A national " one size fits all system will never, ever work. It is a state issue- period- not a national one.

I think you're confusing Medicare and Medicaid. Medicare is the national program (primarily for the elderly), Medicaid (primarily for poor children and women) is the one that varies from state-to-state, is run by state governments, and is individualized to that state's particular needs.

Anyway, unless you're low-income, you're not going to be eligible for Medicaid.

You will be thrown into a medicaid type system should Obama care be implemented, that is my entire point. Employers will dump their coverage of their employees as it will not be advantageous to cover them anymore, it will be cheaper to dump them into a national program. Don't believe me, look at all the waivers that Pelosi and Obama have given to Union shops and restuarants that they like, it's all over the place, it you are a favored person, you get the waiver, it not, you get to pay.

 

[JoeB131]

to the OP

The "Federalism" argument, or as I like to call it, the "I promise not to inflict my awesome plan on the whole country" defense of Romney.

Socialized medicine isn't bad. Just federalism is.

The problem with both RomneyCare and ObamaCare is that they don't address the fundemental problem.

The fundemental problem is not the supposedly 46 million uninsured. Most of them don't really need insurance, anyway. They are young and healthy, more often than not.

In my 20's, health insurance would have been a waste of money. I rarely go sick. I was in the military until I was 29, and other than a few colds and corrective surgery to my feet, I needed almost no medical care. Therefore the equivlent to paying $5000.00 a year for medical insurance would have been a waste of money.

No, the crisis is in the 250 million of us who do have coverage, in that the cost of medical treatment is going up at three times the rate of inflation. We spend more of our GDP than any other country does.

For the half of us who are on some kind of government program - the military, VA, Medicare, medicaid, etc. The solution has been to just throw more money at it. For those of us who get it through private agencies, the solution has been to cut back on service through redaction and pre-existing conditions.

The ObamneyCare solution has been to mandate everyone to own insurance, which increases the size of the pool, and diverts more of your tax dollars to big insurance. That really doesn't address the problem. It maybe delays the reckoning for a few years. ObamaCare (I don't know if RomneyCare has a similar requirement and don't care) speeds up that reckoning by disallowing "pre-existing conditions" to be cited as a reason to deny coverage.

Ultimately, the only way to solve this would be through price controls and rationing, neither of which would be politically popular.

 

[Maple]

Conservatives "tout" personal responsibility, yet are reluctant to enforce it with a mandate. Do they think they can wish it true?

Dunno about 'Conservatives', but the mandate is the opposite of personal responsibility. Personal responsibility is about making your own decisions and being accountable for the outcome. The mandate takes the decision away from the individual and the makes the state accountable for the outcome.

So you are okay with people running around naked in the streets? Are you okay with paying for other people's healthcare, because that is what you are doing, whether they can afford it or not. Are you okay with that?? It's costing YOU money that you could be spending, saving and investing for your own family.

 

[dblack]

So you are okay with people running around naked in the streets?

It's my favorite thing.

Are you okay with paying for other people's healthcare, because that is what you are doing, whether they can afford it or not. Are you okay with that?? It's costing YOU money that you could be spending, saving and investing for your own family.

That mandate won't change that. It will reinforce it.

 

[Dot Com]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2NcZBEpWTFY]Shep Smith Pushes Government Health Care - YouTube[/ame]​

 

[imbalance]

Personal responsibility is a libertarian virtue, everyone knows this.

 

[Maple]

to the OP

The "Federalism" argument, or as I like to call it, the "I promise not to inflict my awesome plan on the whole country" defense of Romney.

Socialized medicine isn't bad. Just federalism is.

The problem with both RomneyCare and ObamaCare is that they don't address the fundemental problem.

The fundemental problem is not the supposedly 46 million uninsured. Most of them don't really need insurance, anyway. They are young and healthy, more often than not.

In my 20's, health insurance would have been a waste of money. I rarely go sick. I was in the military until I was 29, and other than a few colds and corrective surgery to my feet, I needed almost no medical care. Therefore the equivlent to paying $5000.00 a year for medical insurance would have been a waste of money.

No, the crisis is in the 250 million of us who do have coverage, in that the cost of medical treatment is going up at three times the rate of inflation. We spend more of our GDP than any other country does.

For the half of us who are on some kind of government program - the military, VA, Medicare, medicaid, etc. The solution has been to just throw more money at it. For those of us who get it through private agencies, the solution has been to cut back on service through redaction and pre-existing conditions.

The ObamneyCare solution has been to mandate everyone to own insurance, which increases the size of the pool, and diverts more of your tax dollars to big insurance. That really doesn't address the problem. It maybe delays the reckoning for a few years. ObamaCare (I don't know if RomneyCare has a similar requirement and don't care) speeds up that reckoning by disallowing "pre-existing conditions" to be cited as a reason to deny coverage.

Ultimately, the only way to solve this would be through price controls and rationing, neither of which would be politically popular.

It's a state's issue, not a federal one, state's have more control as they are closer to their own health care problems. Washington is 2,000 miles away, have no clue what goes on in my state as far as healthcare, do not know the problems we have here, nor could they care.

I am for a STATE mandate for people to purchase at least an inexpensive high deductible catastrophic plan through the private sector as they are bankrupting our healthcare system and they are bankrupting the rest of us as well.

And, as long as they think that you are flipping the bill, they will just go out and purchase the latest version of the I-pad.

 

[JoeB131]

It's a state's issue, not a federal one, state's have more control as they are closer to their own health care problems. Washington is 2,000 miles away, have no clue what goes on in my state as far as healthcare, do not know the problems we have here, nor could they care.

I am for a STATE mandate for people to purchase at least an inexpensive high deductible catastrophic plan through private sector as they are bankrupting our healthcare system and they are bankrupting the rest of us as well.

And, as long as think that you are flipping the bill, they will just go out and purchase the latest version of the I-pad.

I guess you didn't comprehend a word I said, did you? Well, I know, man, it's tough to be a Romney supporter. You never know what you have to defend, because you never know where he stands from day to day.

Either you think government should pay for it, or you think we should all just take our chances with the insurance companies....

If the cost was an issue, they you should support a Canadian style health care plan. Single Payer, everyone's covered. But there aren't insurance company execs making 8 figure salaries and some procedures aren't covered.

But there are tradeoffs. They won't keep trying to extend your life if you are going to die anyway. You have to wait long times for elective surgeries...

 

[Maple]

Personal responsibility is a libertarian virtue, everyone knows this.

It is a conservative mantra- yet conservatives don't want to enforce it when it comes to healthcare mandates imposed by states. They want to "wish" it true.

 

[Maple]

It's a state's issue, not a federal one, state's have more control as they are closer to their own health care problems. Washington is 2,000 miles away, have no clue what goes on in my state as far as healthcare, do not know the problems we have here, nor could they care.

I am for a STATE mandate for people to purchase at least an inexpensive high deductible catastrophic plan through private sector as they are bankrupting our healthcare system and they are bankrupting the rest of us as well.

And, as long as think that you are flipping the bill, they will just go out and purchase the latest version of the I-pad.

I guess you didn't comprehend a word I said, did you? Well, I know, man, it's tough to be a Romney supporter. You never know what you have to defend, because you never know where he stands from day to day.

Either you think government should pay for it, or you think we should all just take our chances with the insurance companies....

If the cost was an issue, they you should support a Canadian style health care plan. Single Payer, everyone's covered. But there aren't insurance company execs making 8 figure salaries and some procedures aren't covered.

But there are tradeoffs. They won't keep trying to extend your life if you are going to die anyway. You have to wait long times for elective surgeries...

When you were young and healthy you did not need insurance??? That's a new one, because I have personally seen young 20 year olds come down with cancer, break their necks skiing, etc. And end up in the hospital for many, many, many months. Some even died. Good grief!!! They may think they are bullet proof but they are most definitely NOT. They need health insurance just as much as anyone else.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

Personal responsibility is a libertarian virtue, everyone knows this.

It is a conservative mantra- yet conservatives don't want to enforce it when it comes to healthcare mandates imposed by states. They want to "wish" it true.

How is enforcing personal responsibility, personal responsibility?

Seems like a contradiction if you ask me.