Perhaps It's Too Late For Capitalism

Discussion in 'Economy' started by PoliticalChic, Nov 25, 2009.

  1. PoliticalChic
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    PoliticalChic Diamond Member

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    A Long Island couple is home free after an outraged judge gave them an amazing Thanksgiving present -- canceling their debt to ruthless bankers trying to toss them out on the street.

    Suffolk Judge Jeffrey Spinner wiped out $525,000 in mortgage payments demanded by a California bank, blasting its "harsh, repugnant, shocking and repulsive" acts.


    It erased up to $291,000 in principal and $235,000 in interest and penalties.

    The Horoskis -- who had been paying only interest on their mortgage -- had no equity in the home.

    Horoski, who had begged the bankers to let him restructure the loan, said, "I think the judge felt it was almost a personal vendetta." Dealing with the bank, he said, was "like dealing with organized crime."



    Read more: Judge blasts bad bank, erases 525G debt - NYPOST.com
     
  2. American Horse
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    American Horse AKA "Mustang"

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    As I said the other day about Eric Holder's decision to place the coming trial of KSM in NYC. I said that "We have judges sufficiently opposed to US policy of the past 8 years to willingly see an aquittal of these bums as proof of the illigitimacy of the Bush policy to invade Afghanistan, Iraq...."
    and a few posts later someone responded with "Names of those judges?"

    Here we may have an example of one of those, not of the same venue, but of the same ilk for lack of judgment.
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2009
  3. PoliticalChic
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    PoliticalChic Diamond Member

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    Generally, I've found that the "Names of those judges" gambit is a sophomoric deflection of the thrust of the argument.

    The implication of the demand is that, if you name said judges, I will change my perspective.

    In other words, it is an illusory blocking of your premise. Meaningless.

    It may also be an ad hominem attack along the lines of "you are lying- it is impossible for any judge to think or act in that manner."

    But, your larger point, that the article III created class of individuals that have spun off out of control. In so many ways, much of the original ideas of the Founding Fathers has been perverted. Every time the strict meaning of the Constitution is bent, or modified, or fragmented, we move to a country we know not.



    1. How does AG Holder submit advice to the Executive that D.C., not a state, should get representation in the House?
    "The Washington Post confirms that the Justice Department's Office of Legal Counsel, "an elite unit that gives legal and constitutional advice to the executive branch," did issue an unpublished opinion earlier this year that the voting rights bill is unconstitutional. "
    David Limbaugh : Holder's Injustice - Townhall.com


    2. the White House attempt to strong arm investors in Chrysler to drop their contractual rights to be paid first in a bankruptcy. The White House demanded concessions and an abrogation of the contract, and have been directly threatened by the White House, if they didn’t give in.
    This becomes a Constitutional issue, as Contract and Property rights should be sacrosanct. Lauria contends that as our government is composed of three independent branches, and the Executive is now taking over the role of the Judiciary.
    News/Talk 760 WJR
    White House Denies Charge By Attorney that Administration Threatened to Destroy Investment Firm's Reputation* - Political Punch

    3. Article 1, section 6, paragraph 2: No Senator or Representative shall, during the time for which he was elected, be appointed to any civil office…or the Emoluments whereof shall have been increased during such time… [Senator Clinton became Sec’y of State]

    4. Article 1, section 7, paragraph 3 Every order, resolution, or vote to which the concurrence of the Senate and House of Representatives may be necessary (except on a question of adjournment) shall be presented to the President of the United States; and before the same shall take effect, shall be approved by him, or being disapproved by him… [Signing statements aimed at modifying a bill’s intent. The President should either veto, or ‘faithfully execute.]

    5. Article 1, section 8. The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises, to pay the debts and provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States; but all duties, imposts and excises shall be uniform throughout the United States; [Where do we find the power to tax AIG executives at 90%, or ‘level the playing field’ with extraordinary taxes against successful people, or redistribute wealth?]

    6. Article 1, section 8, paragraph 4:” To establish a uniform rule of naturalization, and uniform laws on the subject of bankruptcies throughout the United States;” [uniform: put the squeeze on Chrysler bondholders, choose which companies would fail or get bailouts]
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  4. Saladin
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    I've heard of him. I'm gladdened that there are public officials with the moral grounding to resist the ravages of usury that characterizes the capitalist financial system.
     
  5. PoliticalChic
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    PoliticalChic Diamond Member

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    I guess you didn't hear that we use the Constitution, not the Koran.
     
  6. Saladin
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    Opposition to usury was an element of every soundly formed religious or moral code, not merely that found in the Koran. The U.S. Constitution, for example, was written by men of equitable agrarian society in which market exchange was characterized by independent traders and artisans. I expect that the more libertarian among them would have had disdain for capitalism.
     
  7. American Horse
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    Saladin, What you call usury, is what I call renting money to put to good use. It enables every mother’s son or daughter to grow his or her endeavors and to prosper. Usury enables exponential growth of ideas and invention by enabling them to reach markets, and enables access of every individual to property. It promotes meritocracy, for those who have the self discipline to honor their agreements and accept responsibility.

    Even those who fail in their endeavors have the option of taking bankruptcy and starting over with lessons learned.

    Wealth is more universally experienced today across in America than the Arab or Muslim world where strict adherence to that belief is practiced. Even here in America, Muslims get around paying “usury” by contracting with a lender to have the lender purchase and own the house they wish to own. Then they willingly pay rent while living there, until they can take full ownership once the rent chits have been fully applied to their purchase.

    In that tautology renting money is evil, but renting a house is fair game.

    PC, Capitalism is not dead, except in the wet dreams of those who have long wanted to kill it. Out here in fly-over country, while it is being frustrated, it is alive and well, just biding its time for the right conditions to present themselves
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2009
  8. Saladin
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    Usury survives because of the fact that productive resources are consolidated into the hands of an elite few, thereby preventing any legitimately meritocratic market or other economic exchange. It is a hoarding mechanism only and not one that accomplishes any legitimate economic purpose.
     
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  9. American Horse
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    Yeah, well as a young person with not much more than ambition, zeal, and a willingness to accept responsibility I was able to borrow, and expand my borrowing power to large amounts of money (millions) to access productive resources like land, refined raw materials, skilled professionals, and heavy equipment and hire, employ, and promote others to accomplish the same goals. And I leveraged it all with less than $1-thousand, here in capitalist America. If I could do it, then a very large part of the population can too. One thing I never allowed myself to do: become a cynic, and be jealous of the accomplishments or wealth of others.
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2009
  10. Toronado3800
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    Was AIG forced into taking that bailout money or were they going to cease to exist if they did not? Its my understanding they entered into a contract with "the government". In effect "keep us in existence and we'll bend over"
     

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