Perception of time's passage when dead or prior to birth

Delta4Embassy

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Dec 12, 2013
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Interesting question just arose in another thread, if we don't perceive time's passage before we're born (the universe existed for over 13 billion years before I was born but I have no perception of that time, and presumedly if you're dead it's the same way) then once we're dead wont the universe end and it's coming to an end also seem instaneous?

The universe will eventually create the last star, and then the last star will die and the universe will be dark and cold in something like a trillion years from now. In effect, it'll be a dead universe unless life finds a way to exist in total darkness and near abolute zero conditions.

But if we're dead and don't perceive the passage of time any more, wont the universe's ending seem instantaneous to us just as the billions of years before we were born seemed? Admittedly, before we were born, and after we die we don't exist. But religious people seem to think they'll die, spend some time dead, then be ressurected. But wont the time they spend being dead pass instantly to them? Whether 1000 years or billions, doesn't matter does it?

Further, if the universe ends with a big crunch or otherwise before it exhausts material for making stars, wont the whole heaven or hell notion be moot? Unless Heaven and Hell are outside the universe, if the universe ends, so do they.
 
Have we reached "Peak Universe" yet? :dunno:

Heady questions there, D4. :thup:

My best friend's dad lay on his death bed several months ago. He was a church-going Christian, even conducting Sunday School classes. Navy Veteran, pillar of the community... 94 years young. Have know them both most my life.

So it blew me away when my friend shared a brief comment that his dad had made to him...

"You know- the closer I get to this, the more I'm thinking that there's nothing after... nothing. This is all there is".
 
What do you remember before you were conceived? Anything? No, of course not.

Prenatal and postmortem are indistinguishable from oneanother.
 
Interesting question just arose in another thread, if we don't perceive time's passage before we're born (the universe existed for over 13 billion years before I was born but I have no perception of that time, and presumedly if you're dead it's the same way) then once we're dead wont the universe end and it's coming to an end also seem instaneous?

The universe will eventually create the last star, and then the last star will die and the universe will be dark and cold in something like a trillion years from now. In effect, it'll be a dead universe unless life finds a way to exist in total darkness and near abolute zero conditions.

But if we're dead and don't perceive the passage of time any more, wont the universe's ending seem instantaneous to us just as the billions of years before we were born seemed? Admittedly, before we were born, and after we die we don't exist. But religious people seem to think they'll die, spend some time dead, then be ressurected. But wont the time they spend being dead pass instantly to them? Whether 1000 years or billions, doesn't matter does it?

Further, if the universe ends with a big crunch or otherwise before it exhausts material for making stars, wont the whole heaven or hell notion be moot? Unless Heaven and Hell are outside the universe, if the universe ends, so do they.


Well I suppose the only way to know for sure is to die. Unfortunately, everyone who has died has decided not to come back and let us know the answer. So at that point we are entering into a question of faith and then it just depends on what your personal beliefs say. According to me, once we die we enter an absolute state where time does not exist so the answer would be yes. According to others the answer would be no. Of course it means that if one is perceptive of the passage of time in the after-life, then it means the after-life is still a place where relativity still exists.To me that runs a bit counter to my concept of spirituality because I am not sure a soul has mass. But maybe it does. I will let you know when I am dead.
 
Have we reached "Peak Universe" yet? :dunno:

Heady questions there, D4. :thup:

My best friend's dad lay on his death bed several months ago. He was a church-going Christian, even conducting Sunday School classes. Navy Veteran, pillar of the community... 94 years young. Have know them both most my life.

So it blew me away when my friend shared a brief comment that his dad had made to him...

"You know- the closer I get to this, the more I'm thinking that there's nothing after... nothing. This is all there is".

I think the scariest part about dying is all the time we spend wondering about it before it happens. Once we die though, either there's something, or there isn't. But the dread we may have felt is gone either way. As they say, "Dying's easy. Living's hard." A good point.

For myself, having confronted my own mortality a few times in my life, I find comfort in that even if I cease to exist when I die, I simply 'go back' to the state of non-existance I 'didn't exist in' prior to my birth. I have no perception or memory of that time so don't expect to be upset about being dead as it were. :) On the other hand, if there is something after death, some continuation of thought and experience I trust I wont be upset about it either.

But nothing in the universe lasts forever. Certainly not living things, but even stars and galaxies 'die.' But through their death or destruction free up material for new life and things to come to be. Our individuality may cease to exist, but the atoms which make up our bodies remains and becomes part of other things. And since death allows new life, wishing we could escape death is in effect very selfish. It's probably a good thing things die. If they all lasted forever the universe would run out of atoms for new things in no time.
 
Interesting question just arose in another thread, if we don't perceive time's passage before we're born (the universe existed for over 13 billion years before I was born but I have no perception of that time, and presumedly if you're dead it's the same way) then once we're dead wont the universe end and it's coming to an end also seem instaneous?

The universe will eventually create the last star, and then the last star will die and the universe will be dark and cold in something like a trillion years from now. In effect, it'll be a dead universe unless life finds a way to exist in total darkness and near abolute zero conditions.

But if we're dead and don't perceive the passage of time any more, wont the universe's ending seem instantaneous to us just as the billions of years before we were born seemed? Admittedly, before we were born, and after we die we don't exist. But religious people seem to think they'll die, spend some time dead, then be ressurected. But wont the time they spend being dead pass instantly to them? Whether 1000 years or billions, doesn't matter does it?

Further, if the universe ends with a big crunch or otherwise before it exhausts material for making stars, wont the whole heaven or hell notion be moot? Unless Heaven and Hell are outside the universe, if the universe ends, so do they.


Well I suppose the only way to know for sure is to die. Unfortunately, everyone who has died has decided not to come back and let us know the answer. So at that point we are entering into a question of faith and then it just depends on what your personal beliefs say. According to me, once we die we enter an absolute state where time does not exist so the answer would be yes. According to others the answer would be no. Of course it means that if one is perceptive of the passage of time in the after-life, then it means the after-life is still a place where relativity still exists.To me that runs a bit counter to my concept of spirituality because I am not sure a soul has mass. But maybe it does. I will let you know when I am dead.

Thing about Houdini promising to report back about the afterlife is interesting. Supposely he promised his wife if there was something after life, he'd communicate that to her. Years after his death she reports no word from him. Bummer. :)
 
I think that, to a degree, our soul/spirit/consciousness continues to "function" for a time after physical death. There may still be the senses of sight, hearing, thought... but they soon gradually fade. To the nothingness from whence they came.
 
Interesting question just arose in another thread, if we don't perceive time's passage before we're born (the universe existed for over 13 billion years before I was born but I have no perception of that time, and presumedly if you're dead it's the same way) then once we're dead wont the universe end and it's coming to an end also seem instaneous?

The universe will eventually create the last star, and then the last star will die and the universe will be dark and cold in something like a trillion years from now. In effect, it'll be a dead universe unless life finds a way to exist in total darkness and near abolute zero conditions.

But if we're dead and don't perceive the passage of time any more, wont the universe's ending seem instantaneous to us just as the billions of years before we were born seemed? Admittedly, before we were born, and after we die we don't exist. But religious people seem to think they'll die, spend some time dead, then be ressurected. But wont the time they spend being dead pass instantly to them? Whether 1000 years or billions, doesn't matter does it?

Further, if the universe ends with a big crunch or otherwise before it exhausts material for making stars, wont the whole heaven or hell notion be moot? Unless Heaven and Hell are outside the universe, if the universe ends, so do they.


Well I suppose the only way to know for sure is to die. Unfortunately, everyone who has died has decided not to come back and let us know the answer. So at that point we are entering into a question of faith and then it just depends on what your personal beliefs say. According to me, once we die we enter an absolute state where time does not exist so the answer would be yes. According to others the answer would be no. Of course it means that if one is perceptive of the passage of time in the after-life, then it means the after-life is still a place where relativity still exists.To me that runs a bit counter to my concept of spirituality because I am not sure a soul has mass. But maybe it does. I will let you know when I am dead.

Thing about Houdini promising to report back about the afterlife is interesting. Supposely he promised his wife if there was something after life, he'd communicate that to her. Years after his death she reports no word from him. Bummer. :)


Houdini assumed it was even possible to report back though. It may not be. As well it may be that once we die we discover some vast universal truth that if revealed would have a disastrous effect on the universal scheme In that scenario Houdini was willing to report back when looking at existence from a humanistic viewpoint, but upon his death he realized that reporting back is not a good idea. Pffft.....who knows? We will find out when we croak. :)

Perhaps it is not that important. It was either Confucius or Lao-Tzu (too lazy to look it up), who said (paraphrasing) 'once I figure out how to get through this life I will worry about the next'
 
Interesting question just arose in another thread, if we don't perceive time's passage before we're born (the universe existed for over 13 billion years before I was born but I have no perception of that time, and presumedly if you're dead it's the same way) then once we're dead wont the universe end and it's coming to an end also seem instaneous?

The universe will eventually create the last star, and then the last star will die and the universe will be dark and cold in something like a trillion years from now. In effect, it'll be a dead universe unless life finds a way to exist in total darkness and near abolute zero conditions.

But if we're dead and don't perceive the passage of time any more, wont the universe's ending seem instantaneous to us just as the billions of years before we were born seemed? Admittedly, before we were born, and after we die we don't exist. But religious people seem to think they'll die, spend some time dead, then be ressurected. But wont the time they spend being dead pass instantly to them? Whether 1000 years or billions, doesn't matter does it?

Further, if the universe ends with a big crunch or otherwise before it exhausts material for making stars, wont the whole heaven or hell notion be moot? Unless Heaven and Hell are outside the universe, if the universe ends, so do they.


Well I suppose the only way to know for sure is to die. Unfortunately, everyone who has died has decided not to come back and let us know the answer. So at that point we are entering into a question of faith and then it just depends on what your personal beliefs say. According to me, once we die we enter an absolute state where time does not exist so the answer would be yes. According to others the answer would be no. Of course it means that if one is perceptive of the passage of time in the after-life, then it means the after-life is still a place where relativity still exists.To me that runs a bit counter to my concept of spirituality because I am not sure a soul has mass. But maybe it does. I will let you know when I am dead.

Thing about Houdini promising to report back about the afterlife is interesting. Supposely he promised his wife if there was something after life, he'd communicate that to her. Years after his death she reports no word from him. Bummer. :)


Houdini assumed it was even possible to report back though. It may not be. As well it may be that once we die we discover some vast universal truth that if revealed would have a disastrous effect on the universal scheme In that scenario Houdini was willing to report back when looking at existence from a humanistic viewpoint, but upon his death he realized that reporting back is not a good idea. Pffft.....who knows? We will find out when we croak. :)

Jewish Kabbala text says "I am forbidden to disclose what I saw" in Heaven. Though Christian texts seem to contradict this. Plus logicly, you'd think with all the claims about heaven we have in the zeitgeist, it'd be ok to tell the living or we wouldn't have any info about it at all. :) So since Houdini couldn't get word to his wife, presumedly it's because he's either in hell and incommunicado, or there's nothing.
 

QUI-GON : Don't center on your anxiety, Obi-Wan. Keep your concentration here and now where it belongs.

OBI-WAN : Master Yoda says I should be mindful of the future...


QUI-GON : ...but not at the expense of the moment. Be mindful of the
living Force, my young Padawan.
 

QUI-GON : Don't center on your anxiety, Obi-Wan. Keep your concentration here and now where it belongs.

OBI-WAN : Master Yoda says I should be mindful of the future...


QUI-GON : ...but not at the expense of the moment. Be mindful of the
living Force, my young Padawan.

Speaking of things Jedi, season 1 finale for Rebels last night was awesome. An old friend of your's makes a surprise appearence. :)
 
QUI-GON : Don't center on your anxiety, Obi-Wan. Keep your concentration here and now where it belongs.

OBI-WAN : Master Yoda says I should be mindful of the future...


QUI-GON : ...but not at the expense of the moment. Be mindful of the
living Force, my young Padawan.

Speaking of things Jedi, season 1 finale for Rebels last night was awesome. An old friend of your's makes a surprise appearence. :)

Man I must have watched around ten episodes of that hoping it would get better... but maybe I'm just not included in the intended target audience, I dunno. I absolutely loved the Clone Wars though. Ezra ain't nearly as epic as Ahsoka! Anyway, maybe I'll go back and give Rebels another chance one of these days.​
 
Interesting question just arose in another thread, if we don't perceive time's passage before we're born (the universe existed for over 13 billion years before I was born but I have no perception of that time, and presumedly if you're dead it's the same way) then once we're dead wont the universe end and it's coming to an end also seem instaneous?

The universe will eventually create the last star, and then the last star will die and the universe will be dark and cold in something like a trillion years from now. In effect, it'll be a dead universe unless life finds a way to exist in total darkness and near abolute zero conditions.

But if we're dead and don't perceive the passage of time any more, wont the universe's ending seem instantaneous to us just as the billions of years before we were born seemed? Admittedly, before we were born, and after we die we don't exist. But religious people seem to think they'll die, spend some time dead, then be ressurected. But wont the time they spend being dead pass instantly to them? Whether 1000 years or billions, doesn't matter does it?

Further, if the universe ends with a big crunch or otherwise before it exhausts material for making stars, wont the whole heaven or hell notion be moot? Unless Heaven and Hell are outside the universe, if the universe ends, so do they.

None of us will exist at the time, so there will be nothing to seem instantaneous to.
 
I wonder if the "Big Crunch" will be the actual end of the Universe?

All that is needed is for protons to decay--or maybe to "break apart" in large numbers during the end.
 
Best comparison I've heard is:

"Dead as a fart".

Hard to think of a fart, before or after "birth", as doing much in they way of introspection or, after dissipating, paying much attention to anything.

But some of you old farts might wish to challenge that.....
 
I wonder if the "Big Crunch" will be the actual end of the Universe?

All that is needed is for protons to decay--or maybe to "break apart" in large numbers during the end.


Well the expansion of the universe is accelerating so the big crunch has pretty much been rejected by physicists in favor of a universe that will continue expanding until the photon age....essentially matter is so far apart that it ceases to interact.
 
Well I suppose the only way to know for sure is to die. Unfortunately, everyone who has died has decided not to come back and let us know the answer.

The spirit world does come back all the time in many spiritualist church services every week. Mediums do not come and knock on your door like Jehovah's witnesses, you have to make the effort to regularly attend a church service to get a message from the departed. I attended many churches during the 1970s and 1980s and over the years I received many evidential messages.

Here is one that is difficult to explain. A lady medium came to visit the local church and she was from out of town. I had never seen her before but she came to me and said "Iv'e got your brother here" to which I said "no"
She then told me my brother had died in the war as a baby and she told me the circumstances of his death and she even told me his name. I said no to everything she said so she said "well ask your mother about it"
So I went home and asked my mother if she had a baby that died in the war and she said "yes".
My mother was shocked because she was not a spiritualist and had never been to the church. But the medium even knew his name.
This is only one of many evidential messages I received and I used to hear from my grandmother quite regularly.

See my thread 'spiritual teachings' on the religion and ethics forum for lots more information.
 
For myself, having confronted my own mortality a few times in my life, I find comfort in that even if I cease to exist when I die, I simply 'go back' to the state of non-existance I 'didn't exist in' prior to my birth. I have no perception or memory of that time so don't expect to be upset about being dead as it were. :) On the other hand, if there is something after death, some continuation of thought and experience I trust I wont be upset about it either.
.

You may well have existed before you were born but your brain only has memories from birth. However the spirit world teaches we all live many lives in a cycle of rebirths the purpose of which is to allow our soul to spiritually evolve. When we complete the cycle of rebirths we achieve a state of grace or enlightenment and
then we continue on as immortal beings in a higher plane of existence. At that time we will remember all our past lives as they are stored in our soul, in perfect detail.
 

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