People who kill themselves for selfish reasons are cowards, GAY OR NOT.

[G.T.]

I support ignoring your bully, telling authority, getting advice from wise adults, sabotaging their juice box with glue, if all else fails restraining orders are nice. If someone is backed into a corner, they should definitely defend themselves...but there are sooooooo many peaceful solutions out there one could do before they decide to blow their brains out.

Not everyone who's "backed into a corner" is of sound-mind to decide the most rational way forward.

 

[eagleseven]

If a bully that tapes a peer receiving the shaft of another man in the butt and streams it online should they be arrested for assault?

That's a sexual crime, and should be prosecuted as such.

If a bully tapes a peer picking his nose and eating the bugger, should they be arrested for assault?

Obviously not.

Should any action intebded to damaged the reputation of another be prosecuted?

Ever hear of Criminal Defamation?

Where is the line drawn?

Here's as good rule of thumb: If performing the activity on an adult would land you in prison, or put you on a restraining order, then it's over the line.

Kapish?

 

[G.T.]

Anyhoot, killing yourself as a result of being bullied is not "for selfish reasons," it's the exact opposite.

Being bullied makes you feel unwanted. You don't get any more self-less than offing yourself because you feel you're not wanted.
Shit, in your eyes, you're doing everyone a favor.
Killing yourself is game over. It takes some deep trauma shit to bring anyone to do that, and some fucking gonads if you're not Religious.

Hey, I won't deny you make a good argument, although I believe there is more to it for each individual case.

Yea, there's tons of grey area for individual cases.

 

[eagleseven]

I support ignoring your bully, telling authority, getting advice from wise adults, sabotaging their juice box with glue, if all else fails restraining orders are nice. If someone is backed into a corner, they should definitely defend themselves...but there are sooooooo many peaceful solutions out there one could do before they decide to blow their brains out.

I think you're confused...you're imagining this bully:

We're talking about these bullies:

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ldYNQNStcOI"]Bullies[/ame]

 

[Liberty]

I support ignoring your bully, telling authority, getting advice from wise adults, sabotaging their juice box with glue, if all else fails restraining orders are nice. If someone is backed into a corner, they should definitely defend themselves...but there are sooooooo many peaceful solutions out there one could do before they decide to blow their brains out.

I think you're confused...you're imagining this bully:

We're talking about these bullies:

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ldYNQNStcOI"]Bullies[/ame]

...obviously there needs to be a security presence...in the case of that clip...

 

[fyrenza]

Ok, but we have to define bullying, first.
If a bully that tapes a peer receiving the shaft of another man in the butt and streams it online should they be arrested for assault?
If a bully tapes a peer picking his nose and eating the bugger, should they be arrested for assault?
Should any action intebded to damaged the reputation of another be prosecuted?
Where is the line drawn?
Should bullying be prosecuted only when the victim decides to kill themselves?
What if the victim was unstable to begin with?

I do not know the answers to those questions. The problem I have with those who say "Those bullies FORCED that young man to kill himself!" is that they are completely irrational and are not helping anyone, for if their premise was true, it would be called homicide. But it's not because it was the choice of the "victim" to jump off the bridge, and the person's chosen actions. No one pushed them.

And herein lies The Rub:

IF we're responsible for what/who/how we are?

The truth can't hurt us.

If we're embarrassed by it? That's our tough stuff.

WE each are responsible for building our OWN characters, for knowing that we ARE going to "fail" at some point or another.

We can LEARN from it, and try to better ourselves;

or we can be crybabies, ENTITLED to the respect of others, with NO effort on our part.

CHARACTER.

KNOWING, for sure and true, what IS right and wrong,

what IS truth or lies,

is how our characters are built.

It's sad that we have to go through the hurtful times,

but it only hurts for as long as we are willing to ALLOW it to hurt.

How can you ever see BEYOND the cover,

if you never open the book to read it?

And the only way you can even BEGIN to understand the concepts of it are to have lived through some of those situations.

It's called understanding, on a personal level;

empathy;

and a sense of personal worth, which NO ONE can give you,

'cuz it ISN'T something that you're ENTITLED to;

it's something that you learn and can FEEL, in your own heart.

 

[G.T.]

Ok, but we have to define bullying, first.
If a bully that tapes a peer receiving the shaft of another man in the butt and streams it online should they be arrested for assault?
If a bully tapes a peer picking his nose and eating the bugger, should they be arrested for assault?
Should any action intebded to damaged the reputation of another be prosecuted?
Where is the line drawn?
Should bullying be prosecuted only when the victim decides to kill themselves?
What if the victim was unstable to begin with?

I do not know the answers to those questions. The problem I have with those who say "Those bullies FORCED that young man to kill himself!" is that they are completely irrational and are not helping anyone, for if their premise was true, it would be called homicide. But it's not because it was the choice of the "victim" to jump off the bridge, and the person's chosen actions. No one pushed them.

And herein lies The Rub:

IF we're responsible for what/who/how we are?

The truth can't hurt us.

If we're embarrassed by it? That's our tough stuff.

WE each are responsible for building our OWN characters, for knowing that we ARE going to "fail" at some point or another.

We can LEARN from it, and try to better ourselves;

or we can be crybabies, ENTITLED to the respect of others, with NO effort on our part.

CHARACTER.

KNOWING, for sure and true, what IS right and wrong,

what IS truth or lies,

is how our characters are built.

It's sad that we have to go through the hurtful times,

but it only hurts for as long as we are willing to ALLOW it to hurt.

How can you ever see BEYOND the cover,

if you never open the book to read it?

And the only way you can even BEGIN to understand the concepts of the book are to have lived through some of those situations.

It's called understanding, on a personal level;

empathy;

and a sense of personal worth, which NO ONE can give you,

'cuz it ISN'T something that you're ENTITLED to;

it's something that you learn and can FEEL, in your own heart.

yea, that wasn't my quote

 

[eagleseven]

...obviously there needs to be a security presence...in the case of that clip...

That clip is nearly twenty years old...but I can tell you that it's only getting worse. Ask anyone who's tried teaching in an inner-city school...they deserve hazard pay.

I have friends who had enough hand-to-hand combat experience in highschool to rival a marine...knives were commonplace. Much like in prison, if you didn't beat the shit out of someone quickly, you became a target. No different from thousands of schools across the country today.

Targets unable to find a protective clique, often became suicidal. Probably from living in fear every day of their life. In such an environment, it was only a matter of time until a Columbine Shooting occurred.

If an urban gang recruited at your school...you were fucked.

---

Not everyone can afford a prep-school, Liberty.

 

[fyrenza]

yea, that wasn't my quote

Oops.

 

[Liberty]

i went to a fancy public school, not gonna lie. :/

 

[eagleseven]

i went to a fancy public school, not gonna lie. :/

I think that's why you're having difficulty relating to the type of bullying that's causing people to commit suicide.

We're not talking about shooting spitwads at the short red-head who keeps asking annoying questions in math class. We're talking about beating the shit out of the gay kid after gym class, for popping a boner in the showers...and threatening to post the photos on facebook if he tells anyone.

 

[eagleseven]

And just cuz it's an awesome song...

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WUTJgk0HFqw"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WUTJgk0HFqw[/ame]

 

[MikeK]

I recently watched an MSNBC documentary, called Lockup, one segment of which dealt with a special prison cellblock that contained a large number of inmates who were on "suicide watch." These prisoners were locked in "sterile" rooms in which the lights are never switched off. They possess nothing which conceivably be used to facilitate a suicide and a guard must check on them every half hour.

This appeared to me as the ultimate cruelty. Forcing someone to live for years under what is nothing less than insidious psychological torture is fiendish. So if peaceful, painless suicide were an option I wonder what percentage of prison inmates, many of whom have nothing to live for, would take advantage of it.

I would be interested in reading what others in this forum think of this particular situation.

 

[jillian]

I am sick of hearing "Oh no, stop the bullies who pray on gay people." I would prefer to see "Hey parents, teach your kids how to stand up for themselves and a little bit of self worth so maybe they won't turn out to be a friggin pansy ass."

Yeah, I went there.

Also, regular bullying of nerds is just as bad, but at least nerds are proud of being nerds. Why can't gay people be proud of being gay? I thought they were. I am confused now.

let me know when nerds have their ministers, preachers, etc, call them aberrations and an affront to G-d.

 

[Samson]

I am sick of hearing "Oh no, stop the bullies who pray on gay people." I would prefer to see "Hey parents, teach your kids how to stand up for themselves and a little bit of self worth so maybe they won't turn out to be a friggin pansy ass."

Yeah, I went there.

Also, regular bullying of nerds is just as bad, but at least nerds are proud of being nerds. Why can't gay people be proud of being gay? I thought they were. I am confused now.

let me know when nerds have their ministers, preachers, etc, call them aberrations and an affront to G-d.

You forgot rabbis, and mullahs

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

I am sick of hearing "Oh no, stop the bullies who pray on gay people." I would prefer to see "Hey parents, teach your kids how to stand up for themselves and a little bit of self worth so maybe they won't turn out to be a friggin pansy ass."

Yeah, I went there.

Also, regular bullying of nerds is just as bad, but at least nerds are proud of being nerds. Why can't gay people be proud of being gay? I thought they were. I am confused now.

I would imagine being gay in a straight world would be pretty hard to adjust to. People who make it harder, well They have some growing up to do.

 

[editec]

Imagine being a kid whose whole childhood was spent absorbing the message that being gay was a sin or a flaw of character. Someone to be mocked, someone to be avoided.

Then imagine what happens when that kid starts to feel the first urges of his or her homsexual nature.

Self loathing much?

Doesn't take too much to push somebody who is already self-loathing over the edge.

If you cannot understand that human condition then you fail one of the more important tests of humanity.

 

[Madeline]

people, People, PEOPLE!

Cripes!

A STRONG case could be made about the way WE treat each other, ffs!

If calling folks names, casting aspersions regarding their intellect and disparaging their moral character is "bullying,"

WE DO IT, EVERY FUCKING DAY, RIGHT HERE!

bul·ly
1. a blustering, quarrelsome, overbearing person who habitually badgers and intimidates smaller or weaker people.

Truth!

fyrenza, how are you or I "smaller or weaker" on a message board?

 

[Madeline]

But if a specific act of bullying is not a crime then THE BULLY SHOULD NOT BE BLAMED.

It's only a crime if you're caught.

You're not caught if the victim doesn't testify.

The victim doesn't testify if you put the fear of God into him.

You put the fear of God into him through systematic torture.

If I tell a fat kid she is fat with the sole purpose of making that girl cry and hate her life, should I be prosecuted?

Mebbe. If you speak that way to her in front of others, if you photo her undressed in gym class and text the photo to the whole class, if you hound her on the internet, if you make other kids feel that speaking kindly to her or about her will target them for similar hatred.....yes, then you should be prosecuted.

You seem to think this is about criminalizing less-than-polite conduct and it is not. The laws I have read speak in terms of "putting a reasonable person of the victim's age, etc. in fear." You target a child for torment, you have to accept that test is very, very easy to meet.

 

[Wry Catcher]

I am sick of hearing "Oh no, stop the bullies who pray on gay people." I would prefer to see "Hey parents, teach your kids how to stand up for themselves and a little bit of self worth so maybe they won't turn out to be a friggin pansy ass."

Yeah, I went there.

Also, regular bullying of nerds is just as bad, but at least nerds are proud of being nerds. Why can't gay people be proud of being gay? I thought they were. I am confused now.

I suspect you're not confused, a bigot for sure, but not confused. Why not proudly stand up for bigotry? Don't be a "friggin pasy ass", put on that white robe and wear your ignorance with pride.
Compassionate Conservativism is dead; killed by hate and fear and callousness (or maybe it never really exisited?).

lol. you dont even know me, fuckface. i support homosexual rights to do whatever they want. I have nothing against them, but I have something against those who think they should be treated differently (special type of bullying) when I think bullying should be bullying, and leave it to the law to decide to prosecute. Do you want equality or do you want special cases? That is the question. I advocate equality.

"fuckface"? Being a bully and being callous are not tradional values. The more vulnerable among us seem to attract the cowards who need to harm others to feel good about themselves.
Maybe the parents of the bullies are the ones who need to teach their kids how to behave in a civilized manner, though I suspect the bullies learned how to bully from the treatment they got at home.
I ran my agencies domestic violence unit for five years, the perps were real tough with their wives, GF/s and children, not so tough when they tried to bully my deputies. I had three women in the unit, and watching them call out the abusers for the cowards abusers are was a wonderful experience. Almost as good as watching them in orange heading off to do a year in the CJ and seeing the fear in their eyes as they joined the 'chain gang' heading off to the bus.
No doubt these jerks started bullying in grade school, that is the time to put a stop to such behavior, well before they have the capacity to seriously hurt or kill a victim.