People not looking for work?

[LilOlLady]

PEOPLE NOT LOOKING FOR WORK?
Then what the hell or they doing? Welfare don’t pay the rent, buy clothes, pay doctor bills, bill gas and food stamps run out before the end of the month and they are not looking for work? People who are use to working do not stop looking for work and settle for being in a state or mere existence. This is just RRWE rhetoric to further their attacks on Obama. How do you measure people not looking of work?
Unemployment is at 8.1% and RRWE are running scared and will ask anything to make obama look bad before the election. Jobs are being created, businesses are hiring but people are not looking for jobs? Anyone not looking for job do not want a job.
Do we count Illegal Aliens working, not working and not looking for work when the unemployed rate is taken? Millions of Illegal Aliens in the work force taking jobs form Americans can also account for the unemployment rate of Americans.
When Bush left office the unemployment rate was 7.5% was the because people was no longer looking for work?

 

[pinqy]

PEOPLE NOT LOOKING FOR WORK?
Then what the hell or they doing? Welfare don’t pay the rent, buy clothes, pay doctor bills, bill gas and food stamps run out before the end of the month and they are not looking for work? People who are use to working do not stop looking for work and settle for being in a state or mere existence. This is just RRWE rhetoric to further their attacks on Obama. How do you measure people not looking of work?

You ask them if they're looking for work. The UE rate comes from a household survey and people are asked if they're working, looking for work, not looking for work, if they want a job, if they could take a job etc.

Out of an Adult (16+) Civilian Non-Institutional population of 242,784,000, there are about 141,995,000 working, and 100,789,000 not working. 11,910,000 are available and looking for work (Unemployed) and 88,879,000 unavailable or not looking. Those are mostly 65 and older, married women, 16-19 year olds, and the disabled. Around 6 million say they want to work, but either couldn't take a job if offered or haven't looked in over a month.

Do we count Illegal Aliens working, not working and not looking for work when the unemployed rate is taken?

Yes. The survey doesn't ask about immigration status.

 

[SniperFire]

Why work when you can vote?

 

[KissMy]

This Chart Says All You Need To Know About Jobs.

 

[SniperFire]

This Chart Says All You Need To Know About Jobs.

oooh... I like that. An employment statistic which politicians cannot distort, evidently.

Here is a googled result on 'employment-population ratio':


EMPLOYMENT-POPULATION RATIO:

The ratio of employed persons to the total civilian noninstitutionalized population 16 years old or older. Also termed the employment rate, the employment-population ratio is used as an alternative to the unemployment rate as an indicator of the utilization of labor resources.
Because the employment-population ratio is the ratio of employment to population, it does not suffer from underestimation problems attributable to discouraged workers and other unemployed persons that enter and exit the labor force. In particular, the unemployment rate goes up and down as people enter and exit the labor force, even though these folks have no affect on employment and production. When discouraged workers leave the labor force, the unemployment rate goes down, but the employment-population ratio does not change. When high school and college students seek jobs during the summer months, the unemployment rate goes up, even though the employment-population ratio does not change.
The calculation of the employment-population ratio is illustrated using this equation:

employment-population ratio = employed
persons
total noninstitutionalized
civilian population x 100

 

[pinqy]

This Chart Says All You Need To Know About Jobs.

oooh... I like that. An employment statistic which politicians cannot distort, evidently.

Here is a googled result on 'employment-population ratio':


EMPLOYMENT-POPULATION RATIO:

The ratio of employed persons to the total civilian noninstitutionalized population 16 years old or older. Also termed the employment rate, the employment-population ratio is used as an alternative to the unemployment rate as an indicator of the utilization of labor resources.
Because the employment-population ratio is the ratio of employment to population, it does not suffer from underestimation problems attributable to discouraged workers and other unemployed persons that enter and exit the labor force. In particular, the unemployment rate goes up and down as people enter and exit the labor force, even though these folks have no affect on employment and production. When discouraged workers leave the labor force, the unemployment rate goes down, but the employment-population ratio does not change. When high school and college students seek jobs during the summer months, the unemployment rate goes up, even though the employment-population ratio does not change.
The calculation of the employment-population ratio is illustrated using this equation:

employment-population ratio = employed
persons
total noninstitutionalized
civilian population x 100

The problem with the emp-pop ratio is it doesn't tell you anything about people not working. How much is voluntary, how much involuntary? How easy/difficult is it to actually get a job? etc.

For example, the 1950s had a very low emp-pop ratio but also had low Unemployment because of the larger number of housewives.

 

[SniperFire]

This Chart Says All You Need To Know About Jobs.

oooh... I like that. An employment statistic which politicians cannot distort, evidently.

Here is a googled result on 'employment-population ratio':


EMPLOYMENT-POPULATION RATIO:

The ratio of employed persons to the total civilian noninstitutionalized population 16 years old or older. Also termed the employment rate, the employment-population ratio is used as an alternative to the unemployment rate as an indicator of the utilization of labor resources.
Because the employment-population ratio is the ratio of employment to population, it does not suffer from underestimation problems attributable to discouraged workers and other unemployed persons that enter and exit the labor force. In particular, the unemployment rate goes up and down as people enter and exit the labor force, even though these folks have no affect on employment and production. When discouraged workers leave the labor force, the unemployment rate goes down, but the employment-population ratio does not change. When high school and college students seek jobs during the summer months, the unemployment rate goes up, even though the employment-population ratio does not change.
The calculation of the employment-population ratio is illustrated using this equation:

employment-population ratio = employed
persons
total noninstitutionalized
civilian population x 100

The problem with the emp-pop ratio is it doesn't tell you anything about people not working. How much is voluntary, how much involuntary? How easy/difficult is it to actually get a job? etc.

For example, the 1950s had a very low emp-pop ratio but also had low Unemployment because of the larger number of housewives.

True. But do you really think the underlying demographics have changed that much since the percitptious decline in 2008?

 

[pinqy]

oooh... I like that. An employment statistic which politicians cannot distort, evidently.

Here is a googled result on 'employment-population ratio':


EMPLOYMENT-POPULATION RATIO:

The ratio of employed persons to the total civilian noninstitutionalized population 16 years old or older. Also termed the employment rate, the employment-population ratio is used as an alternative to the unemployment rate as an indicator of the utilization of labor resources.
Because the employment-population ratio is the ratio of employment to population, it does not suffer from underestimation problems attributable to discouraged workers and other unemployed persons that enter and exit the labor force. In particular, the unemployment rate goes up and down as people enter and exit the labor force, even though these folks have no affect on employment and production. When discouraged workers leave the labor force, the unemployment rate goes down, but the employment-population ratio does not change. When high school and college students seek jobs during the summer months, the unemployment rate goes up, even though the employment-population ratio does not change.
The calculation of the employment-population ratio is illustrated using this equation:

employment-population ratio = employed
persons
total noninstitutionalized
civilian population x 100

The problem with the emp-pop ratio is it doesn't tell you anything about people not working. How much is voluntary, how much involuntary? How easy/difficult is it to actually get a job? etc.

For example, the 1950s had a very low emp-pop ratio but also had low Unemployment because of the larger number of housewives.

True. But do you really think the underlying demographics have changed that much since the percitptious decline in 2008?

Oh, absolutely. Since Dec 2008, the number of people not in the labor force has gone up by 8.2 million. BUT people not in the labor force who want a job (meaning they're not available for work and/or aren't trying to work) only went up 1.15 million. While the percent of Not in the Labor Force who want a job did go up, there's enough left over to point to a demographic shift and it's not all "dropping out."

While it can't really be measured directly, there is such a group as the "loosely attached to the labor force." These are people who don't "need" to work but will if conditions are favorable...students, housewives, retirees mostly. They work for "extra money" and not to fully provide for a household. In bad economic times, they drop out....they're not going to compete for jobs. I've seen a number of spouses, usually wives, especially with kids, where the spouse stops working or looking for work to raise kids and/or keep house. And of course more retirees are being added (though not quite to the degree may liberals try to claim).

 

[SniperFire]

The problem with the emp-pop ratio is it doesn't tell you anything about people not working. How much is voluntary, how much involuntary? How easy/difficult is it to actually get a job? etc.

For example, the 1950s had a very low emp-pop ratio but also had low Unemployment because of the larger number of housewives.

True. But do you really think the underlying demographics have changed that much since the percitptious decline in 2008?

Oh, absolutely. Since Dec 2008, the number of people not in the labor force has gone up by 8.2 million. BUT people not in the labor force who want a job (meaning they're not available for work and/or aren't trying to work) only went up 1.15 million. While the percent of Not in the Labor Force who want a job did go up, there's enough left over to point to a demographic shift and it's not all "dropping out."

While it can't really be measured directly, there is such a group as the "loosely attached to the labor force." These are people who don't "need" to work but will if conditions are favorable...students, housewives, retirees mostly. They work for "extra money" and not to fully provide for a household. In bad economic times, they drop out....they're not going to compete for jobs. I've seen a number of spouses, usually wives, especially with kids, where the spouse stops working or looking for work to raise kids and/or keep house. And of course more retirees are being added (though not quite to the degree may liberals try to claim).

Good post.

I believe an unemployment statistic which measures inclusively a precipitous drop in 'those loosely attached to the labor force' is actually a sound way to view employment in America.

 

[Oldstyle]

With all due respect, Pinqy...I find it hard to fit your theory on "loosely attached" workers to what is going on at the moment. I'm of the mind that because of the bad economic time we've just gone through that there are many more students, housewives and retirees that would very much like to work (because they NEED money badly) but the jobs aren't there for them. Why? Well, one of the most obvious reasons is that people who would normally be working a full time position have been forced to take whatever they can get because their unemployment benefits have run out and they are desperate. Those people have taken part time work (oft times below their normal skill level) away from the students, housewives and retirees that would normally fill those positions.

 

[Big Black Dog]

It's more attractive to people to sit on their asses at home and collect unemployment than it is to go out and work for a living.

 

[KissMy]

The problem with the emp-pop ratio is it doesn't tell you anything about people not working. How much is voluntary, how much involuntary? How easy/difficult is it to actually get a job? etc.

For example, the 1950s had a very low emp-pop ratio but also had low Unemployment because of the larger number of housewives.

True. But do you really think the underlying demographics have changed that much since the percitptious decline in 2008?

Oh, absolutely. Since Dec 2008, the number of people not in the labor force has gone up by 8.2 million. BUT people not in the labor force who want a job (meaning they're not available for work and/or aren't trying to work) only went up 1.15 million. While the percent of Not in the Labor Force who want a job did go up, there's enough left over to point to a demographic shift and it's not all "dropping out."

While it can't really be measured directly, there is such a group as the "loosely attached to the labor force." These are people who don't "need" to work but will if conditions are favorable...students, housewives, retirees mostly. They work for "extra money" and not to fully provide for a household. In bad economic times, they drop out....they're not going to compete for jobs. I've seen a number of spouses, usually wives, especially with kids, where the spouse stops working or looking for work to raise kids and/or keep house. And of course more retirees are being added (though not quite to the degree may liberals try to claim).

People drop out when the unemployment payments run out, gas prices rise & pay is so low that it actually cost them to go to work. The jobs situation is getting worse. It is not better as this administration has been shouting for 3 years.

 

[blastoff]

It's a game for the Dimocrats and they're banking on lots of you being too stupid to figure it out.

The people who drop out, stop looking for work, are no longer counted as unemployed. Therefore, the unemployment rate number drops and Barry can say it dropped because of his improving economy. It's an outright lie, but the stupid folks don't know it.

 

[American Horse]

Some (more than ever) have gone underground and aren't reporting income. Why do that? When operating under the table as "independent contractors" it's easy to avoid being part of the whole IRS/Tax system, which means they can get by on less income - at least the 15% plus FICA, their state taxes and any fedral taxes they'd otherwise have to withhold.

 

[FJO]

There is absolutely no excuse for not looking for work. The only unemployed people who stop looking for work are the ones who are more aware of their perceived entitlements than of their responsibilities.

I was an immigrant in 1957. I was just barely 18 years old at the time and I could hardly speak a word of English. I was not even slightly aware of Unemployment Insurance, but I was acutely and uncomfortably aware of the rumbling in my rather skinny mid section.

I always found a job, even with those odds against me. I worked in the bush, cutting trees with a dull bucksaw, because I had no money to buy a file to sharpen my bucksaw. Then I worked in several mines, 3,000 to 7,400 feet underground. Then I worked on a factory floor, where I was forced to be a union member, with my dues going supporting jerks and ideas and programs I never believed in. And then, when I felt comfortable with my knowledge of English I enrolled as an adult student in high school to get my diploma and never again did I ever contaminated myself with being in a union. With the exception that I DO cherish: My marriage of 43 years.

In subsequent years I worked along college graduates whose mother tongue was English but came to me to check their reports for spelling.

Maybe I was lucky to have such rewarding and safe and lovely jobs. Maybe I was just stupid not to be aware of entitlements as the unemployed of today are. Or maybe I just had a bit more self-respect.

 

[KissMy]

CNN: Boomerang kids: 85% of college grads move home

"Stubbornly high unemployment -- nearly 15% for those ages 20-24 -- has made finding a job nearly impossible"

 

[pinqy]

With all due respect, Pinqy...I find it hard to fit your theory on "loosely attached" workers to what is going on at the moment.

Well, it's theoretically possible I'm wrong, though since that's never happened yet.....

I'm of the mind that because of the bad economic time we've just gone through that there are many more students, housewives and retirees that would very much like to work (because they NEED money badly) but the jobs aren't there for them.

Both are possible. It's a question of whether or not the income is needed or not. When my Brother in law lost his job, my sister went back to work...so obviously we see that happening, and we'll see plenty of youth and spouses looking for work when the primary earner has his/her hours dropped, loses his/her job etc.

But at the same time there will be people "dropping out" because they don't need the money.

About 33% of the change in Not in the Labor Force are people 65 and older.
About 24.2% of the change is 16-24 year olds
About 17% of the change is married women.

Keep in mind that Discouraged workers also made up 6.3% of the change and that could be from any of the groups I mentioned.

In short, the decrease in LF participation is PARTLY due to more retirees and some shift in demographics AND partly due to crappy economy. Both liberals and conservatives are wrong.

 

[pinqy]

The people who drop out, stop looking for work, are no longer counted as unemployed.

Ok, why should they be? What exactly are you trying to measure?

Someone is working in month A. Month B they are no longer working and not looking for work. Should they be considered Unemployed or not? Why?

Someone is not working but looking for work in month A. Month B they are still not working, but they are no longer looking for work either. Should they be considered Unemployed or not? Why?

 

[zeke]

Some (more than ever) have gone underground and aren't reporting income. Why do that? When operating under the table as "independent contractors" it's easy to avoid being part of the whole IRS/Tax system, which means they can get by on less income

Good point and I don't think most people realize how many workers are doing just what you say. Sub contract and "send" me a 1099.

The insurance companies are what is making the construction industry a little better right now because of all the storm damage that needs repaired. An amazing number of roofers are 1099 workers. All cash no tax.

Other building trades do the same thing. Mostly in the home construction field. Harder to do in larger commercial projects.

Billions of uncollected income taxes.