Pentecostals

[ABikerSailor]

I am specifically interested in whether they generally believe in (1) demonic possession (Catholics don't, even though it is part of the traditional catholic teaching), (2) baptism in the holy spirit manifesting through speaking in tongues, and the (3) gift of prophecy.

With my 'science hat' on these are examples of wishful thinking. With my 'faith hat' on they are more extreme than what I raised with and I wonder how generally accepted these three tenets are. With my 'american' hat on I think Bush acted impulsively because of his evangelical beliefs and his belief that he was doing God's will and we'd damn well better know if the potential VP operates from the same position.

Anyway, I don't expect you, Denny, to 'explain' sara palin but I do wonder if you know how generally and strongly those three tenets are held. I know that people and churches are individual....

Well Cali, to answer your questions, here goes......remember, by the way, I'm a Taoist, somewhat of a Christian, as well as study Torah, so please, be careful.

(1). Do I believe in demonic possession? You bet. It's referenced to in the New Testament (when Jesus cast out the demons of one man into a bunch of hogs), as well as referenced to (quite a bit actually) in the Torah. In that vein (Torah), they refer to it as the yetzer harrah (evil inclination) and the yetzer hartov (your "God head"). Just like Angoulie said, some people listen to their animal nature (yetzer harrah) more than they listen to their good nature (yetzer hartov), and end up committing evil. George Bush and Sarah Palin are VERY good examples of this.

(2). Baptism in the Holy Spirit? You bet. Matter of fact, that is referred to in the Torah. Matter of fact, they call it the "shkinah", which is the divine light from God Himself, which comes down and inspires people to great things. I've seen it myself actually.

(3). Gift of Prophecy? Again....yep. But, it's not something that a person comes to easily, nor is it generally given to the rich. Why? Because with too much money and power, a person generally starts to think and behave like their opinion is so much better than others (Joel Osteen as well as a whole slew of many). Not only that, but they also start to behave like they are the only ones that have this thing when in fact, they don't. It is also referred to in all 3 theologies that I've studied. Taoists call them Sages (of which Buddha was one), Christians refer to them as prophets, disciples or other names, and Judaism teaches that ANYONE can become a prophet, but it takes a whole lot of study and time.

Hope that helps.

 

[Shogun]

That women in dress that violates the Pentecostal dress code do not attend pentecostal services or do not consider themselves Pentecostals. Go back and read the posts.

again, PENTECOSTAL DOCTRINE is clear. Individual observation does not invalidate the premise of the dogma. Why won't you show me a pro-abortion catholic church even though a catholic might have an abortion?

 

[Anguille]

wikipedia knows more than the UNITED PENTECOSTAL CHURCH INTERNATIONAL, eh?

hehe..


whatever, dude. Like I said, show me a pro abortion catholic church. The basic dogma of the pentecostal does not make room for lipstick regardless of how many gals you've seen wear it in your experience.

Whoa! Shogun has now just appoointed himself Pope of the Pentecostal Church!

 

[Shogun]

Whoa! Shogun has now just appoointed himself Pope of the Pentecostal Church!

not at all. I'm just very familiar with that particular sect of christianity. Feel free to provide evidence that conflicts with what i've posted from the UNITED PENTECOSTAL CHURCH INTERNATIONAL though. I look forward to your evidence.

oh.. and dont forget to show me how an individual decision by a catholic to have an abortion insinuates a pro-choice stance by the catholic church.

 

[Anguille]

Just like Angoulie said, some people listen to their animal nature (yetzer harrah) more than they listen to their good nature (yetzer hartov), and end up committing evil

That's an interpretation of what I said. I would not use the terms "animal nature" or "evil".

 

[Anguille]

not at all. I'm just very familiar with that particular sect of christianity. Feel free to provide evidence that conflicts with what i've posted from the UNITED PENTECOSTAL CHURCH INTERNATIONAL though. I look forward to your evidence.

oh.. and dont forget to show me how an individual decision by a catholic to have an abortion insinuates a pro-choice stance by the catholic church.

Face it. You've been pwned.

 

[Denny Crane]

not at all. I'm just very familiar with that particular sect of christianity. Feel free to provide evidence that conflicts with what i've posted from the UNITED PENTECOSTAL CHURCH INTERNATIONAL though. I look forward to your evidence.

I'm very familiar with it as well. Post something that states UPCI is the only governing body of the Pentecostal churces.

 

[CA95380]

I would like to know what Palin's stance is on this one

First US Military Wiccan dies in Combat..... - Indymedia Ireland

I admit I know little about the Pentecostal Church and I know a lot less about the Wiccans. I am not saying that I believe as the Wiccan's belive, either. I am a Christian. But this man served his country with honor and died doing so. The only reason I even heard about this is because the soldier was from Reno, NV where I have a niece living - she brought it to my attention. Very little was on the news about it - or I did not hear it at the time.

It would be interesting to know Palin's take on this.

 

[ABikerSailor]

Okay.....I've read the entire thread up to this point, and I'm fixing to piss off a LOT of these Pentium Postals.........

They're wrong.

How do I know? Simple.....did anyone ever bother to read Genesis? About the creation of the Garden of Eden, as well as the fact that Adam and Eve ran around in it NAKED? The first giveaway that God saw after they'd eaten from the tree of Good and Evil (when Satan tempted them), was the fact that they were naked. Interesting point by the way, that was brought up by a Torah scholar to me, was that after eating the apple, they could have known ANYTHING, yet they chose to look at the fact they were naked. Kind of a narrow view in my book. I also believe that the reason that God had told them to not eat from the tree was because Adam and Eve hadn't learned enough yet, because they were still kinda like kids, God didn't want them to get into the liquor cabinet before THEY were ready, not God.

Go ahead.....feel free to flame me for this post......

Never mind the fact that it's true.

 

[Denny Crane]

I would like to know what Palin's stance is on this one

First US Military Wiccan dies in Combat..... - Indymedia Ireland

I admit I know little about the Pentecostal Church and I know a lot less about the Wiccans. I am not saying that I believe as the Wiccan's belive, either. I am a Christian. But this man served his country with honor and died doing so. The only reason I even heard about this is because the soldier was from Reno, NV where I have a niece living - she brought it to my attention. Very little was on the news about it - or I did not hear it at the time.

It would be interesting to know Palin's take on this.

That's a good question I wouldn't mind hearing Palin or McCain comment on myself. My feelings is he was a soldier first and if his family wants a pentacle put on his stone I don't consider that an unreasonable requests. I doubt many people who saw it would even know what it was there for.

 

[Shogun]

I'm very familiar with it as well. Post something that states UPCI is the only governing body of the Pentecostal churces.

do I also need to post something that suggests the vatican is the governing body of catholicism? If you want to call snake charmers Pentecostals and act like they reflect on the standard dogma of pentecostals then so be it. so far, your wiki, uh, evidence doesn't trump the ONLY organization that represents the UPC. If you need to prove something then, by all means, do so. Hell, it should be EASY for you to find pentecostal doctrine from ANY organized source that indicates that female attire is different than what i've described. Please, don't act like the victim here. Show me more than a wiki article. I DARE you.

 

[ABikerSailor]

Something else which I kinda thing would be helpful to you Pentium Postals.....

It's something that was said by His Holiness, the Dali Lama.......

"All paths lead to the top of the mountain".

Which is to say that God kinda likes variety. That's one of the reasons that the world is not colored in black and white, nor is there only 2 kinds of cars, as well as everything else. If a person died in combat, valiantly serving the needs of their country, their fellow soldiers, as well as their family, does it really matter what faith they were? Jesus said to hate the sin and not the sinner. Let them believe as they want to, and learn what they can. Oh yeah.....that story was also carried on CNN.

So, any one that is a staunch believer in their own faith, to the exclusion of other people for what THEY believe, is a cock smoking idiot.

 

[Shogun]

Something else which I kinda thing would be helpful to you Pentium Postals.....

It's something that was said by His Holiness, the Dali Lama.......

"All paths lead to the top of the mountain".

Which is to say that God kinda likes variety. That's one of the reasons that the world is not colored in black and white, nor is there only 2 kinds of cars, as well as everything else. If a person died in combat, valiantly serving the needs of their country, their fellow soldiers, as well as their family, does it really matter what faith they were? Jesus said to hate the sin and not the sinner. Let them believe as they want to, and learn what they can. Oh yeah.....that story was also carried on CNN.

So, any one that is a staunch believer in their own faith, to the exclusion of other people for what THEY believe, is a cock smoking idiot.

I am by NO means a christian but.. uh...

John 14:6
6Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.


where did he say to let them believe what they want to believe? Or where did he suggest anything close to your Dali Lama quote?

and, just so you know... I think the dali lama is no better than some egyptian pharaoh whose cultural power convinced him that he was more than he really is.

 

[CA95380]

Okay.....I've read the entire thread up to this point, and I'm fixing to piss off a LOT of these Pentium Postals.........

They're wrong.

How do I know? Simple.....did anyone ever bother to read Genesis? About the creation of the Garden of Eden, as well as the fact that Adam and Eve ran around in it NAKED? The first giveaway that God saw after they'd eaten from the tree of Good and Evil (when Satan tempted them), was the fact that they were naked. Interesting point by the way, that was brought up by a Torah scholar to me, was that after eating the apple, they could have known ANYTHING, yet they chose to look at the fact they were naked. Kind of a narrow view in my book. I also believe that the reason that God had told them to not eat from the tree was because Adam and Eve hadn't learned enough yet, because they were still kinda like kids, God didn't want them to get into the liquor cabinet before THEY were ready, not God.

Go ahead.....feel free to flame me for this post......

Never mind the fact that it's true.

You have made a good point .... but .... I do not think there was a Macy's or even a Wal-Mart in or near the Garden of Eden to buy clothing. I don't know .... call me

 

[ABikerSailor]

You are definitely correct.....there were no Wal-Marts or Macy's in the Garden.

However.....they did have leaves and straw. Which is why I find it so curious that someone who actually ATE the apple, could come up with a bit better idea than looking at the fact they were naked.

 

[ABikerSailor]

I am by NO means a christian but.. uh...

John 14:6
6Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.


where did he say to let them believe what they want to believe? Or where did he suggest anything close to your Dali Lama quote?

and, just so you know... I think the dali lama is no better than some egyptian pharaoh whose cultural power convinced him that he was more than he really is.

Something that you may wish to remember Shogun (I like your posts by the way), is that Jesus was JEWISH, and also the fact that He didn't come to redeem the tribes of Israel (they were already good because of what Abraham did), but rather came to redeem the nations (which is everyone else BUT Israel), so, when He said that nobody could come to the Father except by Him, He was talking about everyone who WASN'T Jewish.

Not only that, but have you noticed the difference between Orthodox Jews and all the other varieties? Might wanna check on that.

 

[CA95380]

Btw ..... wasn't Palin a Catholic and changed religions

It's good to know that you can not only switch the candidate or party (like I have done) you are going to vote for ..... along with switching religions. Amercia is good!

 

[Denny Crane]

do I also need to post something that suggests the vatican is the governing body of catholicism? If you want to call snake charmers Pentecostals and act like they reflect on the standard dogma of pentecostals then so be it. so far, your wiki, uh, evidence doesn't trump the ONLY organization that represents the UPC. If you need to prove something then, by all means, do so. Hell, it should be EASY for you to find pentecostal doctrine from ANY organized source that indicates that female attire is different than what i've described. Please, don't act like the victim here. Show me more than a wiki article. I DARE you.

If you want to post stupid shit that doesn't prove your point that all Pentecostal churchs abide strictly by UPCI directives go for it, but you are presenting a boring style of debate that doesn't deserve a relpy as far as I'm concerned. You're grasping at straws here because you don't seem to know much about Pentecostal churches and the differences there are that has actually caused a lot of divisions within the Pentecostal churches across the country.

I've never seen a snake in church so that looks rather silly.

 

[Shogun]

Something that you may wish to remember Shogun (I like your posts by the way), is that Jesus was JEWISH, and also the fact that He didn't come to redeem the tribes of Israel (they were already good because of what Abraham did), but rather came to redeem the nations (which is everyone else BUT Israel), so, when He said that nobody could come to the Father except by Him, He was talking about everyone who WASN'T Jewish.

Not only that, but have you noticed the difference between Orthodox Jews and all the other varieties? Might wanna check on that.

But he was STILL talking about HIS take on the JEWISH SCRIPTURES and HIS take on salvation. Sure, we all know that the new testement was a new covenant. BUT, how do you assume that he essentially gave taoism, buddhism, etc the thumbs up as an alternative to HIS message? I'd like to see the scripture that suggests that.


In case you haven't noticed, CHRISTIANS don't belive that jews are saved unless they embrace jesus as their savior. JESUS didn't teach that variations of salvational faith were acceptable alternatives that I am aware of. Thanks for your appriciation of my posts but I'd have to see scripture that even remotely suggests that jebus validates your dali lama quote.

 

[Anguille]

Interesting point by the way, that was brought up by a Torah scholar to me, was that after eating the apple, they could have known ANYTHING, yet they chose to look at the fact they were naked. .

I wondered about that too, the first time I heard the story. But, like so many fairy tales full of inconsistencies, you just have gloss over it, to get to whatever the real moral of the story is.