Penalizing the Financially Intelligent People

We haven't owned a credit card for almost 10 years. I pay cash for everything - including vehicles. I buy late model used so that I don't get hit with depreciation when I drive it off the lot. I keep a Visa debit card for travel or emergency needs, but aside from that I pay cash or check.

Before I started doing that, I would occasionally spend more in a month than I actually earned. Today, my family size has more than doubled but I save about 25% of my income. It makes a huge difference.
 
Banks are starting to charge fees for people who have credit cards and don't use them all the time, this is stupid. Credit is what fucked up our economy and now banks want to penalize the people who are actually smart and use the cards only in emergencies instead of the idiots that live beyond their means and expect the government to pay off their debt.

The news just announced this in their broadcast and I can't find a link to the story online yet.

KK, you may not have all the details of this situation. It may be that since the goverment is disallowing the credit card companies from rasing rates to delinquent card holders as it would make sense to do, they are being forced to get more from people who get the benefit of floating purchase payments without incurring costs on their account for that useful service. Are they charging for cards that aren't being used? Not so sure about that, except that they may impose annual "membership" fees. I had an oil company try that and I instantly cancelled their card by getting them on the phone. They offered to replace it with another card without the annual membership fee, but I passed on that.

OK. Then they'll have to either use it, lose it, or pay the fine.

There's a problem here, how exactly?

It's not whining Rabbi, it's about ethical business practices. There are scams out there, even by the big boys. Credit Card Companies profit from both ends of the transaction, don't forget that. I am a Merchant, I pay fee's for the privilege of the Service. Thats fine. There are major differences the field of choice here.

Personal Account scams, the monthly bill that you did not receive, that was penalized. Paid off in full every month. That happened to me twice the same month two years in a row, with a Bank I no longer do business with.

Another Account billed me for a Small Transaction, which I never received. I had another account with them in good standing. 6 months later, after it went to collection, I was notified, The bank got the original statement they sent me back as undeliverable. Remember I had another account with that Bank, from which I still received Statements. Without contacting me they damaged my credit. I immediately paid the full balance with the Fines and fee's added, with a letter of explanation. No word since they got my money.

Many of these Banks want short Grace periods so they can disqualify you from Special Low Interest deals.

Dave Ramsey suggests snipping all credit cards, and simply going Debit Cards. I'm almost there, should practices deteriorate, that's where I'm headed.

Intense, Credit Cards have security loss limit benefits that Debit Cards do not have. Some credit card companies offer awards for charges even though the account is paid off monthly. I used to operate my construction business with 10th prox open accounts. Now I'm operating a much smaller gross and I make most of my purchases from suppliers on one credit card which offers bonus awards.

When I make purchases I ask: If I charge this on a credit card you won't have to send me a bill and I wont have to write you a check. Will I get my regular discount? They always confirm that there is no bias to my usual purchasing postition. This saves me time and postage, a minor detail. On a recent cabinet purchase of abut $10K I called the supplyer company and asked my "pat" question. Then I asked If he'd prefer just discounting my bonus points to me and I'd belay making a credit card payment. He said it was "six of one and a half dozen of the other", so I took that as a no and made the charge which earned me a $100 bill in awards.

Intense, since you are a Merchant, you would know if he made a sound decision to accept the payment from Visa instead of directly from me; if in fact, as he said, it was six of one and a half dozen of the other.
 
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Banks are starting to charge fees for people who have credit cards and don't use them all the time, this is stupid. Credit is what fucked up our economy and now banks want to penalize the people who are actually smart and use the cards only in emergencies instead of the idiots that live beyond their means and expect the government to pay off their debt.

The news just announced this in their broadcast and I can't find a link to the story online yet.

KK, you may not have all the details of this situation. It may be that since the goverment is disallowing the credit card companies from rasing rates to delinquent card holders as it would make sense to do, they are being forced to get more from people who get the benefit of floating purchase payments without incurring costs on their account for that useful service. Are they charging for cards that aren't being used? Not so sure about that, except that they may impose annual "membership" fees. I had an oil company try that and I instantly cancelled their card by getting them on the phone. They offered to replace it with another card without the annual membership fee, but I passed on that.

OK. Then they'll have to either use it, lose it, or pay the fine.

There's a problem here, how exactly?

It's not whining Rabbi, it's about ethical business practices. There are scams out there, even by the big boys. Credit Card Companies profit from both ends of the transaction, don't forget that. I am a Merchant, I pay fee's for the privilege of the Service. Thats fine. There are major differences the field of choice here.

Personal Account scams, the monthly bill that you did not receive, that was penalized. Paid off in full every month. That happened to me twice the same month two years in a row, with a Bank I no longer do business with.

Another Account billed me for a Small Transaction, which I never received. I had another account with them in good standing. 6 months later, after it went to collection, I was notified, The bank got the original statement they sent me back as undeliverable. Remember I had another account with that Bank, from which I still received Statements. Without contacting me they damaged my credit. I immediately paid the full balance with the Fines and fee's added, with a letter of explanation. No word since they got my money.

Many of these Banks want short Grace periods so they can disqualify you from Special Low Interest deals.

Dave Ramsey suggests snipping all credit cards, and simply going Debit Cards. I'm almost there, should practices deteriorate, that's where I'm headed.

Intense, Credit Cards have security loss limit benefits that Debit Cards do not have. Some credit card companies offer awards for charges even though the account is paid off monthly. I used to operate my construction business with 10th prox open accounts. Now I'm operating a much smaller gross and I make most of my purchases from suppliers on one credit card which offers bonus awards.

When I make purchases I ask: If I charge this on a credit card you won't have to send me a bill and I wont have to write you a check. Will I get my regular discount? They always confirm that there is no bias to my usual purchasing postition. This saves me time and postage, a minor detail. On a recent cabinet purchase of abut $10K I called the supplyer company and asked my "pat" question. Then I asked If he'd prefer just discounting my bonus points to me and I'd belay making a credit card payment. He said it was "six of one and a half dozen of the other", so I took that as a no and made the charge which earned me a $100 bill in awards.

Intense, since you are a Merchant, you would know if he made a sound decision to accept the payment from Visa instead of directly from me; if in fact, as he said, it was six of one and a half dozen of the other.

Same Same. I've had more good experiences than bad. For my Business I use specific cards for specific suppliers. Fail Safe, easy accounting. The point is to be vigilant and keep your eyes open for trends. Government strong arm intervention into banking is causing things to change. Eyes Open. :):):)
 
Banks are starting to charge fees for people who have credit cards and don't use them all the time, this is stupid. Credit is what fucked up our economy and now banks want to penalize the people who are actually smart and use the cards only in emergencies instead of the idiots that live beyond their means and expect the government to pay off their debt.

The news just announced this in their broadcast and I can't find a link to the story online yet.

Yes. you are correct that banks fucked up the economy.

Stop using your credit card whenever you can.
 
What is unethical about it?? They send notice they are doing this. Don't like it? Send them a letter and cancel the card. Nothing could be more above-board.

Well ... if you want to go that route, you do know that many are on contract which means that canceling the card prematurely (before the contract runs out) will invoke more penalties. Essentially this is penalizing the intelligent people no matter how you look at it. Smart people utilize credit only as needed, and only with extreme prejudice, idiots buy everything on credit even if they can't afford it. The idiots should be canceled and then forced to pay it back without prejudice, the smart ones should be left alone. I am not saying it's wrong for them to collect fees, they do have to pay their employees, but those who are not using the credit cards are also not making the banks need more employees, it's the people who do use them all the time that are causing the needed staff.
 
Banks are starting to charge fees for people who have credit cards and don't use them all the time, this is stupid. Credit is what fucked up our economy and now banks want to penalize the people who are actually smart and use the cards only in emergencies instead of the idiots that live beyond their means and expect the government to pay off their debt.

The news just announced this in their broadcast and I can't find a link to the story online yet.

Yes. you are correct that banks fucked up the economy.

Stop using your credit card whenever you can.

This 'blame' culture is ridiculous. Banks are businesses, driven by profit. People got us into this mess by irresponsible borrowing, the banks by irresponsible lending, the government by not regulating the banking industry - and worse, by 'encouraging' the banks to lend irresponsibly.

There is plenty of blame to go around. Let's try to be honest about it, at least.

Business and profit is not a bad thing. If stupid people had not borrowed money they could not afford to pay back, we would not be in this mess. Just because someone offers you money, does not mean you have to take it or that you have to spend it.

It's about time we acted like grown ups instead of throwing the responsibility on to anyone but ourselves.
 
I remember when all credit cards had an annual fee attached. it was the price you paid for the convenience of having a card.

Now if these fees are only applied to those who have low or no activity on their cards, I would say it's a bogus fee but if applied to all cards then, c'est la vie
 
I remember when all credit cards had an annual fee attached. it was the price you paid for the convenience of having a card.

Now if these fees are only applied to those who have low or no activity on their cards, I would say it's a bogus fee but if applied to all cards then, c'est la vie

Exactly. ;)
 
Banks are starting to charge fees for people who have credit cards and don't use them all the time, this is stupid. Credit is what fucked up our economy and now banks want to penalize the people who are actually smart and use the cards only in emergencies instead of the idiots that live beyond their means and expect the government to pay off their debt.

The news just announced this in their broadcast and I can't find a link to the story online yet.

I think they're charging what they call "deadbeat" CC users(people who pay off their bills withi their grace periods) because they can.

When you finally get tired of allowing the CCC's to rip you off, KK you'll stop using plastic.

If you pay off your debts within 30 days, you don't need to use the card to begin with.

What's the problem?
 
Greed means the desire to make lots of money, which almost by definition must happen over a long period of time.
How much money did the Enron execs make? How much when you count their legal fees? That wasn't greed; that was stupidity.

GREED IS NEVER GOOD silly goose.

Greed is a dirty word, greed is a sin is unethical....the love of money is the root of all evil...

You are one strange character that sides with evil while saying it is good, wayyyy too often....


Synonyms:
avarice, avidity, cupidity, covetousness; voracity, ravenousness, rapacity.

Greed, greediness denote an excessive, extreme desire for something, often more than one's proper share.

Greed means avid desire for gain or wealth (unless some other application is indicated) and is definitely uncomplimentary in implication:

His greed drove him to exploit his workers.
 
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Banks are starting to charge fees for people who have credit cards and don't use them all the time, this is stupid. Credit is what fucked up our economy and now banks want to penalize the people who are actually smart and use the cards only in emergencies instead of the idiots that live beyond their means and expect the government to pay off their debt.

The news just announced this in their broadcast and I can't find a link to the story online yet.

I got a notice that since i dont carry a balance they were going to start charging me an annual fee. I called them up and said no fee or no card, they said bye bye pilgrim we dont want you anymore.

That was very telling of the screwed up economy....4 years ago they would have bent over backwards to keep me, now that they aren't making money from me they said C-Ya later.
 
Banks are starting to charge fees for people who have credit cards and don't use them all the time, this is stupid. Credit is what fucked up our economy and now banks want to penalize the people who are actually smart and use the cards only in emergencies instead of the idiots that live beyond their means and expect the government to pay off their debt.

The news just announced this in their broadcast and I can't find a link to the story online yet.

I think they're charging what they call "deadbeat" CC users(people who pay off their bills withi their grace periods) because they can.

When you finally get tired of allowing the CCC's to rip you off, KK you'll stop using plastic.

If you pay off your debts within 30 days, you don't need to use the card to begin with.

What's the problem?

:eusa_eh: You don't understand how credit works do you?
 
Banks are starting to charge fees for people who have credit cards and don't use them all the time, this is stupid. Credit is what fucked up our economy and now banks want to penalize the people who are actually smart and use the cards only in emergencies instead of the idiots that live beyond their means and expect the government to pay off their debt.

The news just announced this in their broadcast and I can't find a link to the story online yet.

I got a notice that since i dont carry a balance they were going to start charging me an annual fee. I called them up and said no fee or no card, they said bye bye pilgrim we dont want you anymore.

That was very telling of the screwed up economy....4 years ago they would have bent over backwards to keep me, now that they aren't making money from me they said C-Ya later.

Pretty much. The really stupid part is you also are not costing them nearly as much as those who live in debt their entire lives. The way credit is in our country is nothing but a huge scam now.
 
This is nothing new. They've been doing this for a long time. That's not to say they're not assholes about it though.

When I used to carry a hefty balance in college, I was never charged an annual "service" fee. But about six months after I had finally paid everything off, they tried to hit me with a $25 fee. I called up and told them I wanted to cancel the card. They waived the fee and never charged me for it again.
 
This is nothing new. They've been doing this for a long time. That's not to say they're not assholes about it though.

When I used to carry a hefty balance in college, I was never charged an annual "service" fee. But about six months after I had finally paid everything off, they tried to hit me with a $25 fee. I called up and told them I wanted to cancel the card. They waived the fee and never charged me for it again.

$25 annually wouldn't be a big deal, but they are talking about $100 to $500 a year for some banks ... if I remember the story right. It may be different than I can remember though, my audio recall sucks at times.
 
Banks are starting to charge fees for people who have credit cards and don't use them all the time, this is stupid. Credit is what fucked up our economy and now banks want to penalize the people who are actually smart and use the cards only in emergencies instead of the idiots that live beyond their means and expect the government to pay off their debt.

The news just announced this in their broadcast and I can't find a link to the story online yet.

I got a notice that since i dont carry a balance they were going to start charging me an annual fee. I called them up and said no fee or no card, they said bye bye pilgrim we dont want you anymore.

That was very telling of the screwed up economy....4 years ago they would have bent over backwards to keep me, now that they aren't making money from me they said C-Ya later.


Coming from a risk management background, the reason is probably related to their reserve status. Until very recently, banks were able to meet their minimum reserve requirements via popular tools like foreign investment capital and downpayments on loans. Today there is less foreign investment, which diminishes the bank's loan potential. There are also fewer individuals and companies who are taking on large loans, so there are fewer downpayments. This fuels the cycle. Bank assets are also diminished via real estate declines.

So in order to continue issuing credit to card holders, the banks need an infusion of hard cash so that they can maintain a functional lending capacity. No reserve means no lending. The fact that they've drawn a hard line is strong evidence that this is the case.

As an aside, if I were a large unscrupulous and unethical lender in todays economy who would do or overlook anything in order to remain profittable, I'd be praying for global drug dealers and arms merchants to launder their funds in my organization. For every hard dollar that I hold for them, I have the potential to earn $10 in profit as a result of loans that I can now issue. "The Taliban is reaping profits from opium sales? Send it over here! Send it over here!"
 
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Well ... if you want to go that route, you do know that many are on contract which means that canceling the card prematurely (before the contract runs out) will invoke more penalties.
Where do you get this stuff? There is no penalty for canceling a credit card.
 
I've cancelled many credit cards -- some store cards, some major credit cards -- and non have ever charged me to cancel.
 

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