'Pay Teachers More'

[midcan5]

My wife teaches, she could have done just about anything in the business world but in the olden times - said facetiously - women taught, were mothers and home makers before returning to teaching. Because I have worked in corporate America, we live well. But if you are a teacher and bread winner, another old term, you'd have a tough go of it in America today. If we want a nation of educated citizens we must value education and pay for it, seems simple.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/13/opinion/13kristof.html?_r=1&hp

By Nicholas D. Kristof

"From the debates in Wisconsin and elsewhere about public sector unions, you might get the impression that we’re going bust because teachers are overpaid.

That’s a pernicious fallacy. A basic educational challenge is not that teachers are raking it in, but that they are underpaid. If we want to compete with other countries, and chip away at poverty across America, then we need to pay teachers more so as to attract better people into the profession."

http://www.usmessageboard.com/educa...-disaster-for-higher-education-in-nevada.html

 

[Stephanie]

Good grief, whatever happened to a Teacher just wanted to be one to MAKE A DIFFERENCE in a child's LIFE.

now it's ALL ABOUT MONEY.

As if more MONEY is going to make them BETTER teachers or make the students learn more.

Teachers don't FEEL they make enough, they can FIND another profession that PAYS MORE.

that's what the rest of US would do.

sheesh

 

[Mini 14]

Unfortunately for all of us, your wife is the exception to the rule.

Those who can, do.
Those who can't, teach.

It is no longer about teaching for the majority of teachers in our systems. If it were, Wisconsin would never have been in the news.

 

[Mr. H.]

Hats off to Mrs. can.

My wife taught elementary for several years at nominal pay, but the health insurance was a sweet deal.

Long story short - she was denied tenure. No reason given, none required. It certainly wasn't for lack of funds- the district has one of the best balance sheets in the state. And the wife was one of the best - not my words but the words of the principal and administrators.

Since then we moved to a larger town, larger district. The best available position has been as classroom aid, caring for two developmentally disabled kids. The insurance plan is still there, but the pay is little better than minimum wage.

The whole experience left us very disillusioned with the entire teaching system. I say "system" because that's exactly what it is- a system. Favoritism, nepotism, cronyism. And you know as well as I do, midcan, that there are terrible ineffective teachers out there WITH tenure. It is nearly impossible to get rid of them.

I admire the profession, but I detest the system. It needs to be broken down and rebuilt, and the place to start is by dismantling the unions.

 

[chanel]

That stinks for your wife Mr. H. and I do believe the system is flawed. However, without tenure or the teacher's union, your wife could have been sacked for the same reasons after ten years. Just when she'd be making a decent wage and perfecting her craft.

This is what I worry about. I have a MA +30 which puts me higher up on the pay scale. Although my evaluations have all been stellar, I can envision the day when I could be replaced with a younger, cheaper model. New teachers rarely question the system and principals love robots.

And as for Stephanie's post: Teachers, not unlike any other profession, work for a living. You can't pay a mortgage on a child's smile. Sheez.

Here in NJ the avg. teacher salary is $55K and despite the ridiculous claims that they make more than the private sector, the fact is they make 25% less than other college educated professionals in this state. We are being asked to "give back" $7,000 without complaint. I can afford it. I have a husband. Many of my friends do not.

 

[Stephanie]

That stinks for your wife Mr. H. and I do believe the system is flawed. However, without tenure or the teacher's union, your wife could have been sacked for the same reasons after ten years. Just when she'd be making a decent wage and perfecting her craft.

This is what I worry about. I have a MA +30 which puts me higher up on the pay scale. Although my evaluations have all been stellar, I can envision the day when I could be replaced with a younger, cheaper model. New teachers rarely question the system and principals love robots.

And as for Stephanie's post: Teachers, not unlike any other profession, work for a living. You can't pay a mortgage on a child's smile. Sheez.

Here in NJ the avg. teacher salary is $55K and despite the ridiculous claims that they make more than the private sector, the fact is they make 25% less than other college educated professionals in this state. We are being asked to "give back" $7,000 without complaint. I can afford it. I have a husband. Many of my friends do not.

My dear, many people live ok making a lot less. And they aren't complaining all the time about it.
55,000 is a damn good salary for working 9months out of the year. I'm sure the regular Joe or Jane who is making that salary, has to work 12 MONTHS out of the year.

As I said, if that isn't enough money for them as teachers, they can look for other professions. Many people do it all the time.

 

[boedicca]

We do pay teachers more, and spend more than double in inflation adjusted dollars per pupil than we did 40 years ago. What's the result? Declining literacy and math skills while the education system has been modified to serve teachers and administrators at the expense of students.

Spending EVEN MORE on ineffectual teachers is just going to make things worse.

 

[chanel]

Yep. People who work in 7/11 make a lot less. And people who live in OK make a lot less than people who live in NJ. And yes, teachers have summers off because that's how schools work in this country.

The average home price in my community is $300K. How about OK?

Time will tell. When teachers take your advice and leave for other professions, we'll see who fills their shoes. Maybe they can outsource the children.

 

[Stephanie]

Yep. People who work in 7/11 make a lot less. And people who live in OK make a lot less than people who live in NJ. And yes, teachers have summers off because that's how schools work in this country.

The average home price in my community is $300K. How about OK?

Time will tell. When teachers take your advice and leave for other professions, we'll see who fills their shoes. Maybe they can outsource the children.

A lot of people wish they could AFFORD a house that cost, 300,000.
sorry dear. I'm not going to argue with you. take care.

 

[JamesInFlorida]

I think the problem is the results that the schools are getting. I think most people would be willing to pay teachers more-if students performed better.

I personally have no problem throwing money at teachers-but not blindly. I think our education system needs to be revamped. A good compromise is to pay teachers more, but get rid of tenure. Getting rid of tenure will naturally make is so that the best teachers are in the classrooms (or at least the worst teachers are out), and by raising salaries you add more incentive to potential teachers.

I don't think education is something that can be fixed just by paying more money-but I also don't think GOOD teachers get paid enough-bad teachers are overpaid and should be fired.

 

[Defiant1]

Yep. People who work in 7/11 make a lot less. And people who live in OK make a lot less than people who live in NJ. And yes, teachers have summers off because that's how schools work in this country.

The average home price in my community is $300K. How about OK?

Time will tell. When teachers take your advice and leave for other professions, we'll see who fills their shoes. Maybe they can outsource the children.

Choices, choices, choices.

 

[JamesInFlorida]

Yep. People who work in 7/11 make a lot less. And people who live in OK make a lot less than people who live in NJ. And yes, teachers have summers off because that's how schools work in this country.

The average home price in my community is $300K. How about OK?

Time will tell. When teachers take your advice and leave for other professions, we'll see who fills their shoes. Maybe they can outsource the children.

A lot of people wish they could AFFORD a house that cost, 300,000.
sorry dear. I'm not going to argue with you. take care.

Depends on where you live. 300K isn't the same in New York City, as it is in Springfield, Illinois.

 

[chanel]

Yep. People who work in 7/11 make a lot less. And people who live in OK make a lot less than people who live in NJ. And yes, teachers have summers off because that's how schools work in this country.

The average home price in my community is $300K. How about OK?

Time will tell. When teachers take your advice and leave for other professions, we'll see who fills their shoes. Maybe they can outsource the children.

A lot of people wish they could AFFORD a house that cost, 300,000.
sorry dear. I'm not going to argue with you. take care.

That's why many (including myself) work second jobs. What's your solution? Have teachers live in their cars or ship the 10,000+ kids out of state?

 

[AquaAthena]

That stinks for your wife Mr. H. and I do believe the system is flawed. However, without tenure or the teacher's union, your wife could have been sacked for the same reasons after ten years. Just when she'd be making a decent wage and perfecting her craft.

This is what I worry about. I have a MA +30 which puts me higher up on the pay scale. Although my evaluations have all been stellar, I can envision the day when I could be replaced with a younger, cheaper model. New teachers rarely question the system and principals love robots.

And as for Stephanie's post: Teachers, not unlike any other profession, work for a living. You can't pay a mortgage on a child's smile. Sheez.

Here in NJ the avg. teacher salary is $55K and despite the ridiculous claims that they make more than the private sector, the fact is they make 25% less than other college educated professionals in this state. We are being asked to "give back" $7,000 without complaint. I can afford it. I have a husband. Many of my friends do not.

My dear, many people live ok making a lot less. And they aren't complaining all the time about it.
55,000 is a damn good salary for working 9months out of the year. I'm sure the regular Joe or Jane who is making that salary, has to work 12 MONTHS out of the year.

As I said, if that isn't enough money for them as teachers, they can look for other professions. Many people do it all the time.

A former hubby of mine, holding a MA in music education, started teaching 36 weeks a year at a local middle-school and his beginning salary was 47K. He had about 4 weeks off a year in addition to those nine months, if you include Christmas and Spring vacations and paid holidays and other days. He worked about 8 months a year and spent his vacation time touring the world as a musician, making less money but doing something that he loved and that brought us together in the first place....making music.

 

[chanel]

It can be a wonderful job. Or a really tough one depending on where you work. But for anyone who says "it's easy", I challenge them to spend a day substitute teaching. Just one day.

And if you love it, then step up to the plate. There should be quite a few openings within the next five years. Someone has to do it.

 

[Stephanie]

Yep. People who work in 7/11 make a lot less. And people who live in OK make a lot less than people who live in NJ. And yes, teachers have summers off because that's how schools work in this country.

The average home price in my community is $300K. How about OK?

Time will tell. When teachers take your advice and leave for other professions, we'll see who fills their shoes. Maybe they can outsource the children.

A lot of people wish they could AFFORD a house that cost, 300,000.
sorry dear. I'm not going to argue with you. take care.

That's why many (including myself) work second jobs. What's your solution? Have teachers live in their cars or ship the 10,000+ kids out of state?

yeah that's what I think, they should go live in their cars.
I work for a school and I can tell you, I DON'T make anything close to a teachers salary and I probably work twice as hard, gotta feed the little children breakfast and lunch and after school snack for some. And not only do I work two jobs, ( I do so because I want to stay on at the school and I love my job and the kids.), I also work a third job on the weekends. If I didn't have other jobs, I would HAVE TO FIND something for the SUMMER months out of school because I DON'T GET PAID FOR THAT....
so SORRY DEAR, you're not going to get much sympathy from me.

 

[boedicca]

With the internet and online education, more students could get better educations for far lower costs. No big complexes of building to maintain. Lower administrative and overhead costs. The teachers could live anywhere, i.e., where their salary enables them to live a good lifestyle on a moderate income.

It's time to change the modality of delivering education.

 

[chanel]

Boedicca - with all due respect., school is a hell of a lot more than academics. I shudder to think of the social skills of a generation of kids raised behind a computer. We are already suffering the effects of those who do it for hours in their free time.

The students I teach are basically on their own. The only structure and discipline (and meals) they get is at school.

I am picturing thousands of students in their PJs looking at youtube while they are supposed to be learning. Good Lord - they would never brush their teeth!

 

[boedicca]

Social skills do not have to depend upon regimented schools designed to turn out compliant factory workers.

Parents of homeschoolers find "socializing" opportunities for their kids via sports and other activities. With less money going to pay for failing public schools, parents would have more resources for extra curricular activities (which many public schools are eliminating anyway).

 

[code1211]

My wife teaches, she could have done just about anything in the business world but in the olden times - said facetiously - women taught, were mothers and home makers before returning to teaching. Because I have worked in corporate America, we live well. But if you are a teacher and bread winner, another old term, you'd have a tough go of it in America today. If we want a nation of educated citizens we must value education and pay for it, seems simple.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/13/opinion/13kristof.html?_r=1&hp

By Nicholas D. Kristof

"From the debates in Wisconsin and elsewhere about public sector unions, you might get the impression that we’re going bust because teachers are overpaid.

That’s a pernicious fallacy. A basic educational challenge is not that teachers are raking it in, but that they are underpaid. If we want to compete with other countries, and chip away at poverty across America, then we need to pay teachers more so as to attract better people into the profession."

http://www.usmessageboard.com/educa...-disaster-for-higher-education-in-nevada.html

That's an interesting idea and is based on absolutely nothing.

Right now the highest paid teachers in the industrialized world are teaching in the Public Schools in the USA.

Those teachers are producing a product, test scores achieved by their students of the 12th grade, that rank 19th in the industrialized world right behind the Czech Republic.

Our teachers already are the highest paid on the planet and their work is substandard.

Our private school teachers are paid less and produce a higher quality product.

Since paying higher wages has not helped to produce higher test scores, what do you propose the amount of increase to be to produce higher scores?

In the Czech Republic, the teachers are paid about 1/5 the wage of teachers in the USA and produce better results.