Pay off our debt

[FA_Q2]

I didn’t but it seems that is the type of thing that Kennedy is advocating for. A government that does not have any actual obligations. One that can renege on promises because each individual did not make those promises themselves.

 

[flacaltenn]

I didn’t but it seems that is the type of thing that Kennedy is advocating for. A government that does not have any actual obligations. One that can renege on promises because each individual did not make those promises themselves.

We CAN reneg on things that are not Constutionality justified. The courts have ruled you have no RIGHT to Soc Sec or Medicare for instance. There never was a true contractual agreement for those things and they are subject to the whims and fancies of the ruling junta.

But we probably SHOULDN'T reneg on things like that where we've been FORCED to CONTRIBUTE to the programs. Even the most Staunch anti-statists have (like Ayn Rand stated) AN OBLIGATION to take the benefits of programs that they've been coerced into..

Having lived in (and left) the Socialist Republic of Cali -- those idiots have no excuse. They got to vote on the BULK of their debt directly. Every Hi Speed Rail Bond, Every Hydrogen Hiway, Every Stem CEll Research facility, Every School Improvement Bond --- ALL OF THAT was universally accepted debt obligations because it passed as common vote.

But the rest of us are truly just along for the ride. And in THOSE cases -- I have no obligation to accept the debt or the burden of bearing every bad overreaching decision that politicians stick me with. I can't do that by myself by seceeding from society. But I can join with OTHERS -- under the LAW -- and decide to rescind those obligations..

In that fashion -- K.K. is correct..

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

But then you seem to have no problem driving on the roads built by our fathers. The freedom created from the solders of our past or anything else that comes from being in a NATION that has a past. What you are referring to is an outright refusal to accept that there is more than just the microcosm of the self. I agree that pulling from the present because of injustices of the past is rather immoral but that does not make reneging on our nation’s debs moral. That is not how things work. If you want to be an American then you are accepting responsibilities of things America has promised to do. If not, go live in the middle of the forest where you don’t have to worry about the actions of others or the promises they have made.

Or how about I go live in Somalia, or Afghanistan, or any other such nonsensical intellectually dishonest argument.

OR, you could accept the fact that to be in America comes with certain obligations from those that actually established this nation and the ones that followed. You immediately call anyone that tells you to move then as leveling nonsensical statements. Your right, they are nonsensical. Just as nonsensical as you trying to garner all the benefits of the society that you live in without occurring ANY of those said debts.

You are essentially stating that society can renege on any promises that it has made simply because you don’t want to be held to those agreements. Under such an asinine thought process the entire concept of nations becomes untenable. No longer can you enter into treaties, they don’t need to be followed. Trade, nah, we don’t actually have to honor our agreements. National defense? Forget it. Who says that the government should even bother?

Simply put, the government has obligations and to discount them simply because it is the government is asinine.

I have no choice but to use those "benefits," not to mention that I do pay the taxes. So regardless of my position on these issues, I have every right to use them and in many cases no other option thanks to government monopolies.

Society has not made any promises, because society cannot enter into any promises or agreements. Only individuals can make a promise or an agreement. When 51% of the population makes an agreement that the other 49% disagree with you have violence and coercion. I'm opposed to violence and coercion.

 

[FA_Q2]

I didn’t but it seems that is the type of thing that Kennedy is advocating for. A government that does not have any actual obligations. One that can renege on promises because each individual did not make those promises themselves.

We CAN reneg on things that are not Constutionality justified. The courts have ruled you have no RIGHT to Soc Sec or Medicare for instance. There never was a true contractual agreement for those things and they are subject to the whims and fancies of the ruling junta.

But we probably SHOULDN'T reneg on things like that where we've been FORCED to CONTRIBUTE to the programs. Even the most Staunch anti-statists have (like Ayn Rand stated) AN OBLIGATION to take the benefits of programs that they've been coerced into..

Having lived in (and left) the Socialist Republic of Cali -- those idiots have no excuse. They got to vote on the BULK of their debt directly. Every Hi Speed Rail Bond, Every Hydrogen Hiway, Every Stem CEll Research facility, Every School Improvement Bond --- ALL OF THAT was universally accepted debt obligations because it passed as common vote.

But the rest of us are truly just along for the ride. And in THOSE cases -- I have no obligation to accept the debt or the burden of bearing every bad overreaching decision that politicians stick me with. I can't do that by myself by seceeding from society. But I can join with OTHERS -- under the LAW -- and decide to rescind those obligations..

In that fashion -- K.K. is correct..

I did not say otherwise.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I do not believe that one red cent in the debt belongs to these programs. I did DIRECTLY state that I would reform them both. We can change what those programs do and even the existence of them entirely. I am only referring to actual debt that is promised as a result of barrowing.

 

[FA_Q2]

I have no choice but to use those "benefits," not to mention that I do pay the taxes. So regardless of my position on these issues, I have every right to use them and in many cases no other option thanks to government monopolies.

Absolutely correct. It is not a breach of value when you partake in a program that you disagree with in principal because you were equally forced to support that program. One of the asinine things some of the liberals here continue to demand: Those that disagree with Medicare, SS and other such programs are hypocrites because they used them. No mention that they were forced to pay for them.

Society has not made any promises, because society cannot enter into any promises or agreements. Only individuals can make a promise or an agreement. When 51% of the population makes an agreement that the other 49% disagree with you have violence and coercion. I'm opposed to violence and coercion.

And here it is flat, exactly what I was talking about. This is completely incorrect. Under this idea, government simply does not exist. Government can make zero promises or agreements!?! What is a treaty? What is a debt? What does printed money represent? Our constitution directly claims otherwise and I agree with it. Societal government does require the ability to make agreements on behalf of the citizens. Without this ability, there is no reason for government to exist in the first place.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

I have no choice but to use those "benefits," not to mention that I do pay the taxes. So regardless of my position on these issues, I have every right to use them and in many cases no other option thanks to government monopolies.

Absolutely correct. It is not a breach of value when you partake in a program that you disagree with in principal because you were equally forced to support that program. One of the asinine things some of the liberals here continue to demand: Those that disagree with Medicare, SS and other such programs are hypocrites because they used them. No mention that they were forced to pay for them.

Society has not made any promises, because society cannot enter into any promises or agreements. Only individuals can make a promise or an agreement. When 51% of the population makes an agreement that the other 49% disagree with you have violence and coercion. I'm opposed to violence and coercion.

And here it is flat, exactly what I was talking about. This is completely incorrect. Under this idea, government simply does not exist. Government can make zero promises or agreements!?! What is a treaty? What is a debt? What does printed money represent? Our constitution directly claims otherwise and I agree with it. Societal government does require the ability to make agreements on behalf of the citizens. Without this ability, there is no reason for government to exist in the first place.

Sounds good.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

are you disputing that the final budget was the product of Democrats in the House?
Reagan Sends $1 Trillion Budget to Congress, and Battle Is Joined - NYTimes.com

Your own quote reveals it was a bi-partisan effort.

The Democrats controlled the House.

And?

 

[Bigdaddydem]

Our problem is not the dept. The debt is the product of the problem. The debt did not cause the recession. the debt was an ill attempt to stop a full blown crash. It did not stop this crash, merely slowed it down. The problem, we so emphatically speak of, is the inability of our leaders to recognize that our country is losing groung in the world market ,losing ground in education, jobs, and citizen confidence. They have forgotten how to put their differnces aside and work together for the common goal, and working together to fix this is the only answer. Republican and Democrats alike are so busy trying to push their party's agenda that they forgot who they work for, US, me and you. we should speak out as often as we can to remind them of their obligation to us. Maybe one day they will hear us.

 

[FA_Q2]

Our problem is not the dept. The debt is the product of the problem. The debt did not cause the recession. the debt was an ill attempt to stop a full blown crash. It did not stop this crash, merely slowed it down. The problem, we so emphatically speak of, is the inability of our leaders to recognize that our country is losing groung in the world market ,losing ground in education, jobs, and citizen confidence. They have forgotten how to put their differnces aside and work together for the common goal, and working together to fix this is the only answer. Republican and Democrats alike are so busy trying to push their party's agenda that they forgot who they work for, US, me and you. we should speak out as often as we can to remind them of their obligation to us. Maybe one day they will hear us.

True, but the debt is the incarnation of the failed policies that attempt to address that. That is a problem that might not even have a solution and to continue to build crushing debt to finance the Band-Aids that the public is demanding will ensure that we cannot compete let alone get back on top.

 

[007]

Here's an idea, let's have a telethon to help pay off our debt. People can volunteer to pay extra, if they can afford it. Once it paid off, everyone currently in office should be fired and not allowed to come back. All new people should be elected with the stipulation that they must balance the budget, any debts from here on out are their responsibility. It's not their money, it's ours.

1). America should file bankruptcy and wipe or debt clean.

2). Fire every politician in Washington from the top down.

3). Pass a constitutional amendment for terms limits for ALL elected officials.

4). Pass a constitutional amendment outlawing lobbyists.

5). Pass a constitutional amendment outlawing Czars. No power shall be given to anyone over the people that is not duly elected by the people.

6). Make it a mandatory life prison sentence for any newly elected politician that proposes spending over money on hand.

5). If the above measures fail, Civil War II.

 

[jwoodie]

I imagine the Telethon suggestion was a bit tongue-in-cheek. The reality is we will NEVER "pay off our debt." The most we can hope for is growing the economy enough to reduce or eliminate our continuing deficits and let inflation erode our debt.