Pay $43,000 for an Appendectomy? Or less than $3,000?

the costs of medical insurance are skyrocketing because insurance company profits are skyrocketing.

Show us! You can't.

Reason being that Obamacare mandates that insurance companies spend a minimum of 80% of their revenues on patient care.
 
but how stupid do you have to be to go through life without insurance?

The majority of people without health insurance are young healthy people. Obamacare mandates that they buy far more coverage than they want or need. Those people should be able to buy simple catastrophic coverage, not the whole smorgasbord.
 
Who has a routine appendectomy, most instances are emergency situations???

Does it change the fact that there is 13x price difference ?

You chances of dying are probably 13X greater in Mexico than in the US.

When my teenage son had appendicitis, I called our local acute care center which was a few miles from home. They met me at the drop-off lane with a wheelchair. By the time I parked the car, the doctor met me coming in and said that he had already diagnosed appendicitis, and they had already called the hospital to say we were coming. We loaded my son back up into the car, and I drove straight to the hospital. Three hours later he was in recovery after surgery.

Tell me you can get that kind of service by driving all night to Mexico!

I was a young adult when I had the attack that landed me in the hospital. I had been in surgery for 5 hours, recovery and in my room before my parents knew where I was. Work knew where I was since I had that attack while at work and my manager even asked our maintenance guy to take me to the hospital.

Notice it wasn't he who was suffering the attack but rather his son. What a dad!
 
Yep, it let's people with a government-protected profession profit off of misery. Medical licensing is restricted by the government and existing doctors benefit greatly from this government-induced limit on the quantity of doctors, which allows them to charge what they charge. Big Pharma is even worse, being given exclusive rights to sell drugs for whatever they want. I bet they wouldn't be so rich if the Chinese were allowed to sell drug copies for pennies here in the US without having to adhere to patent laws. A real free market. Bet you won't see too many Big Pharma execs railing against patent laws that protect their profits.

Would you spend a Billion dollars over at least a decade to develop a new life-extending or life-saving drug if you could not obtain a patent so you could recoup your investment and make a profit?

The point I was making is the US medical system is not a free market so I don't cry any tears when the government places restrictions and requirements that make those big pharma execs unhappy.





At the lowest end you don't get what you want. At the high end you get ripped off. I'd say that private Mexican hospital is somewhere in the middle and US healthcare is a really expensive ripoff, with an emphasis on expensive and not so much emphasis on quality.

Indisputably the finest health care in the world. Period.
Based on what?

Results.

Quality of life after the diagnosis of a serious disease.

The number of new life-extending and life-saving drugs.

The number of new procedures and new technology.

Top10medicaladvances-S.jpg

You haven't actually provided any statistics. You only posted that chart, and it doesn't look like the US is doing very well compared to some of the other nations on that list. The USA has roughly 38 times the population of Switzerland, but it appears on that chart only 9 times as many times as Switzerland (and many of those spots are shared with other countries).
 
We need to build a wall to keep Americans out


Frankly, Any Anyone can walk into Mexico without a passport and without being stopped by Mexican border guards. You just can't come back to the USA easily without a passport. There are some exceptions in some small border crossing areas. You don't need a passport to come back in those areas... just show them your real ID/drivers license and you're good to go. Just threw that out there....
 
Great true story about Private Medical Care in Mexico

My son had an attack of appendicitis late Saturday night. I knew that the Obamacare inflated prices for surgery in the U.S. would be ridiculous and that the service would likely be impersonal, involve long waits, and be nerve-wracking. I have friends in the medical field so I inquired just for grins. The price for the latest routine appendectomy in my area was, my jaw dropped, $43,000. I read on-line that the average cost for an appendectomy in the U.S. is $33,000.
That is fucking crazy!! $43,000 to remove an appendix? So he went to Mexico.

I opted for the nearby private Catholic hospital in Mexico driving past a Catholic hospital in the U.S. en route. I also drove past the state run socialist hospital in Mexico which of course has deplorable service and doesn’t serve Americans anyway. Most of the private hospitals in Mexico have great service, modern equipment and procedures, and affordable prices. You can actually have extensive conversations with surgeons and the rest of the medical staff. They are very patient, respectful, and understanding. We arrived on a Sunday morning. This counted as an emergency after-hours visit. The fees listed below are higher because of the Sunday call-out for surgical personnel and the extra fee for the emergency room doctor that could have been avoided if I had come during normal business hours.


Capture14.png


Private Medical Care in Mexico - LewRockwell LewRockwell.com
Mexico has universal healthcare

This is about PRIVATE MEDICAL CARE in Mexico, not the shitty universal care they offer their peasants. Please try to keep up :thup:
Same price for both. Let’s copy their system. I fully support you.
I wonder if an American can buy Mexican Medical insurance!
 
One of the main reasons healthcare is much more expensive in the US,than the rest of the world. Is the fact every country negotiates the prices with the providers. The US is just one of the two that don’t negotiate for lower prices.
That’s like walking in an auto dealership and paying sticker price. So other countries are getting the same healthcare and getting the exact same pharaceuticals but at a much lower price.
So the price you pay for smaller government, is paying double for healthcare.

I don't get what the last bit has to do with anything, but you've clearly identified the problem with the US health care market. And the reason no one negotiates is that no one is paying their own way. If you're insured, you have exactly no reason to negotiate for lower prices.
insurance premiums are very high and should be negotiated down...we do feel the effects of that and so do our employers, so why aren't they???

that should force the insurance company to negotiate for lower prices with the doctors and hospitals, shouldn't it???
I think it has to do with those employers investing in medical stocks... that makes it a vicious circle.
 
But insurance companies negotiate their prices before every new policy renewal season with the doctors and hospitals? They do NOT just pay whatever the hospitals ask....?

There is an incentive for the insurance companies getting prices from docs/hospitals cheaper....if they get better prices from docs and hospitals, then their policies could be cheaper and if their policies are cheaper, then they could capture more of the 40 million who had no insurance before O-care, as new customers....you would think? The market should work that way...?

what is stopping that from happening, even before O-Care?

the only thing I can think of, is not enough insurance companies in each market region? And maybe there is a conspiracy among insurers to not go in certain rural markets if their competitor is there?

or maybe there are not enough doctors and hospitals for the demand?

The missing ingredient has been the lack of a transparent consumer market where insurers have to directly compete on premium. That is to say, exchanges. In the early years of the exchanges, there was intense competition on premium (since shoppers proved surprisingly willing to defect to lower-priced competitors during open enrollment)--to a degree not often seen in our health care system.

A few years ago when we saw the first-ever drop in hospital prices, that was a big part of the reason.

This appears to be a combination of the public sector pressure, but an even more fierce change on behalf of the private payers,” said Paul Hughes-Cromwick, a senior health economist at the Altarum Institute Center for Sustainable Health Spending.

“Insurers are trying to figure out how they can save healthcare cost by lowering the hospital bill, so they are more aggressively bargaining with hospitals and more aggressively investing in programs that lower hospital utilization rates,” said Neraj Sood, director of research and associate professor in health policy and economics at the University of Southern California.
But the pressure to compete on price in newly created Affordable Care Act health insurance exchanges may have better positioned insurers to wring price concessions from hospitals, Hughes-Cromwick said.

People are very price-conscious when they're shopping for the own insurance, even if part of it is covered by a federal subsidy. That in turn made insurers more cost-conscious and tougher negotiators with health care providers.

The problem is, the exchanges are still very small in the grand scheme. Imagine if they had a 100 million shoppers--or more!--instead of 10 million? Insurers would have no choice but to find ways to save, and to pass those savings along in the premiums.
 
Difference, Info. Consumer Prices in United States are 115.48% higher than in Mexico. Consumer Prices Including Rent in United States are 155.15% higher than in Mexico. Rent Prices in United States are 309.16% higher than in Mexico. Restaurant Prices in United States are 133.83% higher than in Mexico.

Cost Of Living Comparison Between Mexico And United States

The hernia operation was 1,200% higher in the U.S. than in Mexico, so your COL rationalization is b'loney.
 
Difference, Info. Consumer Prices in United States are 115.48% higher than in Mexico. Consumer Prices Including Rent in United States are 155.15% higher than in Mexico. Rent Prices in United States are 309.16% higher than in Mexico. Restaurant Prices in United States are 133.83% higher than in Mexico.

Cost Of Living Comparison Between Mexico And United States

The hernia operation was 1,200% higher in the U.S. than in Mexico, so your COL rationalization is b'loney.
A lot of that cost of living depends on where one lives in the US too. Obviously it cost more to maintain a facility in a city than a small town and it cost more in some states to live than in others.
 
The problem is, the exchanges are still very small in the grand scheme. Imagine if they had a 100 million shoppers--or more!--instead of 10 million? Insurers would have no choice but to find ways to save, and to pass those savings along in the premiums.

What a glorious vision. We should force everyone join!
 
One of the main reasons healthcare is much more expensive in the US,than the rest of the world. Is the fact every country negotiates the prices with the providers. The US is just one of the two that don’t negotiate for lower prices.
That’s like walking in an auto dealership and paying sticker price. So other countries are getting the same healthcare and getting the exact same pharaceuticals but at a much lower price.
So the price you pay for smaller government, is paying double for healthcare.

I don't get what the last bit has to do with anything, but you've clearly identified the problem with the US health care market. And the reason no one negotiates is that no one is paying their own way. If you're insured, you have exactly no reason to negotiate for lower prices.
insurance premiums are very high and should be negotiated down...we do feel the effects of that and so do our employers, so why aren't they???

that should force the insurance company to negotiate for lower prices with the doctors and hospitals, shouldn't it???
The best way to lower medical costs is to make hospitals post the prices of their services.

Let market forces drive costs down. Get rid of the army of staff hospitals need to manage insurance companies and let people deal with that themselves once the public sees how much things costs and have to deal with insurance companies themselves market forces will come to bear. As it is now we have completely insulated medical costs from market forces
 
Great true story about Private Medical Care in Mexico

My son had an attack of appendicitis late Saturday night. I knew that the Obamacare inflated prices for surgery in the U.S. would be ridiculous and that the service would likely be impersonal, involve long waits, and be nerve-wracking. I have friends in the medical field so I inquired just for grins. The price for the latest routine appendectomy in my area was, my jaw dropped, $43,000. I read on-line that the average cost for an appendectomy in the U.S. is $33,000.
That is fucking crazy!! $43,000 to remove an appendix? So he went to Mexico.

I opted for the nearby private Catholic hospital in Mexico driving past a Catholic hospital in the U.S. en route. I also drove past the state run socialist hospital in Mexico which of course has deplorable service and doesn’t serve Americans anyway. Most of the private hospitals in Mexico have great service, modern equipment and procedures, and affordable prices. You can actually have extensive conversations with surgeons and the rest of the medical staff. They are very patient, respectful, and understanding. We arrived on a Sunday morning. This counted as an emergency after-hours visit. The fees listed below are higher because of the Sunday call-out for surgical personnel and the extra fee for the emergency room doctor that could have been avoided if I had come during normal business hours.


Capture14.png


Private Medical Care in Mexico - LewRockwell LewRockwell.com

Medical tourism was happening long before Obamacare became law of the land.

The cost of medical care in the US is astronomical compared to the rest of the world, and has been for a long time.
 
but how stupid do you have to be to go through life without insurance?

The majority of people without health insurance are young healthy people. Obamacare mandates that they buy far more coverage than they want or need. Those people should be able to buy simple catastrophic coverage, not the whole smorgasbord.

They can and they are called cat plans for under 30 or anyone that can prove financial hardship.
 
The best way to lower medical costs is to make hospitals post the prices of their services.

How would that make a difference? As long as it's the insurance company taking the hit patients won't care. It certainly won't give them any incentive to demand lower prices.

As it is now we have completely insulated medical costs from market forces

That is EXACTLY the problem with the health care market.
 
The best way to lower medical costs is to make hospitals post the prices of their services.

How would that make a difference? As long as it's the insurance company taking the hit patients won't care. It certainly won't give them any incentive to demand lower prices.

As it is now we have completely insulated medical costs from market forces

That is EXACTLY the problem with the health care market.
Isn't that the purpose of deductibles being so high? So that the patient/consumer is made acutely aware of the costs of medical procedures that are not covered until they fulfill their deductibles? that was the whole purpose of high deductibles being allowed by our gvt in the ACA, that and supposedly to lower the price of the policies....?
 

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