Pay $43,000 for an Appendectomy? Or less than $3,000?

[Care4all]

One of the main reasons healthcare is much more expensive in the US,than the rest of the world. Is the fact every country negotiates the prices with the providers. The US is just one of the two that don’t negotiate for lower prices.
That’s like walking in an auto dealership and paying sticker price. So other countries are getting the same healthcare and getting the exact same pharaceuticals but at a much lower price.
So the price you pay for smaller government, is paying double for healthcare.

I don't get what the last bit has to do with anything, but you've clearly identified the problem with the US health care market. And the reason no one negotiates is that no one is paying their own way. If you're insured, you have exactly no reason to negotiate for lower prices.

insurance premiums are very high and should be negotiated down...we do feel the effects of that and so do our employers, so why aren't they???

that should force the insurance company to negotiate for lower prices with the doctors and hospitals, shouldn't it???

Because, ultimately, insurance is supposed to pay for the inflated health care prices. As long as the health care prices are rising unhindered insurance premiums will go up as well. There's no way around that.

But insurance companies negotiate their prices before every new policy renewal season with the doctors and hospitals? They do NOT just pay whatever the hospitals ask....?

There is an incentive for the insurance companies getting prices from docs/hospitals cheaper....if they get better prices from docs and hospitals, then their policies could be cheaper and if their policies are cheaper, then they could capture more of the 40 million who had no insurance before O-care, as new customers....you would think? The market should work that way...?

what is stopping that from happening, even before O-Care?

the only thing I can think of, is not enough insurance companies in each market region? And maybe there is a conspiracy among insurers to not go in certain rural markets if their competitor is there?

or maybe there are not enough doctors and hospitals for the demand?

 

[cnm]

The market should work that way...?

Hilarity. Greenspan too was amazed his market delusions didn't reflect reality.

 

[Slyhunter]

Great true story about Private Medical Care in Mexico

My son had an attack of appendicitis late Saturday night. I knew that the Obamacare inflated prices for surgery in the U.S. would be ridiculous and that the service would likely be impersonal, involve long waits, and be nerve-wracking. I have friends in the medical field so I inquired just for grins. The price for the latest routine appendectomy in my area was, my jaw dropped, $43,000. I read on-line that the average cost for an appendectomy in the U.S. is $33,000.
​

That is fucking crazy!! $43,000 to remove an appendix? So he went to Mexico.

I opted for the nearby private Catholic hospital in Mexico driving past a Catholic hospital in the U.S. en route. I also drove past the state run socialist hospital in Mexico which of course has deplorable service and doesn’t serve Americans anyway. Most of the private hospitals in Mexico have great service, modern equipment and procedures, and affordable prices. You can actually have extensive conversations with surgeons and the rest of the medical staff. They are very patient, respectful, and understanding. We arrived on a Sunday morning. This counted as an emergency after-hours visit. The fees listed below are higher because of the Sunday call-out for surgical personnel and the extra fee for the emergency room doctor that could have been avoided if I had come during normal business hours.

Private Medical Care in Mexico - LewRockwell LewRockwell.com​

So um, pay $43,000 in a country where the medium income is $35,000 or spend $3,000 in a country where the medium income is a dollar a day? Tough choice. You're just lucky you made your income in America and not Mexico.

 

[strollingbones]

when hubby had knee surgery i looked into overseas procedures...thailand does the knees for about 10 k each as opposed to 60 k or so each in the us...however if things go wrong in thailand you cannot sue or be restored....a risk i was not willing to take

 

[Slyhunter]

when hubby had knee surgery i looked into overseas procedures...thailand does the knees for about 10 k each as opposed to 60 k or so each in the us...however if things go wrong in thailand you cannot sue or be restored....a risk i was not willing to take

And, again 10k in a country where a dollar will buy you a meal vs a country where a meal cost at least 6 bucks. Shit I can get a laid there for a buck. Compare that to the Bunny Ranch where it cost $1,000.

 

[TheOldSchool]

Guys let's not forget the point that the OP is trying to make. He's praising universal healthcare with a public option. The Trump sheep are catching on.

 

[Care4all]

How much does an appendectomy cost?

AVG cost for appendectomy in the USA is $13 K (price insurance companies are charged by hospitals)

there is a really cool calculator of medical procedure costs in your city or region at that link too...

 

[cnm]

Pay $43,000 for an Appendectomy? Or less than $3,000?

No payment at point of contact without insurance seems about right.

 

[cnm]

No doubt when one's appendix is inflamed in a nation with for profit health care one should ring around the various facilities to find the best market driven price.

 

[bgrouse]

No doubt when one's appendix is inflamed in a nation with for profit health care one should ring around the various facilities to find the best market driven price.

Yep, it let's people with a government-protected profession profit off of misery. Medical licensing is restricted by the government and existing doctors benefit greatly from this government-induced limit on the quantity of doctors, which allows them to charge what they charge. Big Pharma is even worse, being given exclusive rights to sell drugs for whatever they want. I bet they wouldn't be so rich if the Chinese were allowed to sell drug copies for pennies here in the US without having to adhere to patent laws. A real free market. Bet you won't see too many Big Pharma execs railing against patent laws that protect their profits.

 

[dblack]

The countries who have negotiated the costs from their providers are exercising cost controls. All these counties have socialized healthcare. The citizen's "premiums" are included in their taxes.They are paying their way.
In the US, that would be looked at Big Government or socialism.

How is it not?

 

[dblack]

No doubt when one's appendix is inflamed in a nation with for profit health care one should ring around the various facilities to find the best market driven price.

Yep, it let's people with a government-protected profession profit off of misery. Medical licensing is restricted by the government and existing doctors benefit greatly from this government-induced limit on the quantity of doctors, which allows them to charge what they charge. Big Pharma is even worse, being given exclusive rights to sell drugs for whatever they want. I bet they wouldn't be so rich if the Chinese were allowed to sell drug copies for pennies here in the US without having to adhere to patent laws. A real free market. Bet you won't see too many Big Pharma execs railing against patent laws that protect their profits.

And yet, when you point out these issues - when you show that government intervention is causing the problem - their answer is always more regulation, more government interference. The illogic is stunning.

 

[dblack]

But insurance companies negotiate their prices before every new policy renewal season with the doctors and hospitals? They do NOT just pay whatever the hospitals ask....?

That might mitigate the problem a little, but it's weak tea compared to the cumulative effect of health care consumers, and their doctors making health-care decisions without taking into account the cost. Indeed, for many health care reformers, the whole point is alleviate people of any responsibility for the cost of the services they use. As long as we try to cater to such a delusional goal, we're going to have problems.

what is stopping that from happening, even before O-Care?

Historically, state insurance regulation has determined the extent to which insurance companies can negotiate. The companies push as hard as they can, but consumers push back.

 

[bgrouse]

No doubt when one's appendix is inflamed in a nation with for profit health care one should ring around the various facilities to find the best market driven price.

Yep, it let's people with a government-protected profession profit off of misery. Medical licensing is restricted by the government and existing doctors benefit greatly from this government-induced limit on the quantity of doctors, which allows them to charge what they charge. Big Pharma is even worse, being given exclusive rights to sell drugs for whatever they want. I bet they wouldn't be so rich if the Chinese were allowed to sell drug copies for pennies here in the US without having to adhere to patent laws. A real free market. Bet you won't see too many Big Pharma execs railing against patent laws that protect their profits.

And yet, when you point out these issues - when you show that government intervention is causing the problem - their answer is always more regulation, more government interference. The illogic is stunning.

The answer is to shit or get off the pot, or to put it in different terms, either deregulate it completely or regulate it more to keep doctors from abusing their status. Often things that are regulated at all stand to benefit from at least some regulation, so in many cases, yes, the answer would be more regulation.

 

[dblack]

No doubt when one's appendix is inflamed in a nation with for profit health care one should ring around the various facilities to find the best market driven price.

Yep, it let's people with a government-protected profession profit off of misery. Medical licensing is restricted by the government and existing doctors benefit greatly from this government-induced limit on the quantity of doctors, which allows them to charge what they charge. Big Pharma is even worse, being given exclusive rights to sell drugs for whatever they want. I bet they wouldn't be so rich if the Chinese were allowed to sell drug copies for pennies here in the US without having to adhere to patent laws. A real free market. Bet you won't see too many Big Pharma execs railing against patent laws that protect their profits.

And yet, when you point out these issues - when you show that government intervention is causing the problem - their answer is always more regulation, more government interference. The illogic is stunning.

The answer is to shit or get off the pot, or to put it in different terms, either deregulate it completely or regulate it more to keep doctors from abusing their status. Often things that are regulated at all stand to benefit from at least some regulation, so in many cases, yes, the answer would be more regulation.

Regulation is a loaded term, and the subject of much equivocation. What do you mean by "regulate it more to keep doctors from abusing their status"?

One aspect of the regulatory state that's rarely discussed is the fact that it "regulates" consumers every bit as much as it regulates business, arguably moreso. That's abundantly apparent with ACA, which tells consumers first that they MUST buy insurance, while also telling them what kind of insurance they must buy and from whom. It's an ugly game that boils down to powerful interests using the law to herd consumers in their direction.

 

[bgrouse]

No doubt when one's appendix is inflamed in a nation with for profit health care one should ring around the various facilities to find the best market driven price.

Yep, it let's people with a government-protected profession profit off of misery. Medical licensing is restricted by the government and existing doctors benefit greatly from this government-induced limit on the quantity of doctors, which allows them to charge what they charge. Big Pharma is even worse, being given exclusive rights to sell drugs for whatever they want. I bet they wouldn't be so rich if the Chinese were allowed to sell drug copies for pennies here in the US without having to adhere to patent laws. A real free market. Bet you won't see too many Big Pharma execs railing against patent laws that protect their profits.

And yet, when you point out these issues - when you show that government intervention is causing the problem - their answer is always more regulation, more government interference. The illogic is stunning.

The answer is to shit or get off the pot, or to put it in different terms, either deregulate it completely or regulate it more to keep doctors from abusing their status. Often things that are regulated at all stand to benefit from at least some regulation, so in many cases, yes, the answer would be more regulation.

Regulation is a loaded term, and the subject of much equivocation. What do you mean by "regulate it more to keep doctors from abusing their status"?

I mean things like single payer.

One aspect of the regulatory state that's rarely discussed is the fact that it "regulates" consumers every bit as much as it regulates business, arguably moreso. That's abundantly apparent with ACA, which tells consumers first that they MUST buy insurance, while also telling them what kind of insurance they must buy and from whom. It's an ugly game that boils down to powerful interests using the law to herd consumers in their direction.

ACA is not single payer. It's a half assed attempt at...I don't even know. Make a legacy for Obama?

 

[MadChemist]

Who has a routine appendectomy, most instances are emergency situations???

Does it change the fact that there is 13x price difference ?

 

[Moonglow]

Who has a routine appendectomy, most instances are emergency situations???

Does it change the fact that there is 13x price difference ?

If I could have scheduled and emergency operation I would have..

 

[MadChemist]

Who has a routine appendectomy, most instances are emergency situations???

Does it change the fact that there is 13x price difference ?

If I could have scheduled and emergency operation I would have..

Did you answer my question ? If so, you'll need to explain it a little further.

 

[Moonglow]

Who has a routine appendectomy, most instances are emergency situations???

Does it change the fact that there is 13x price difference ?

If I could have scheduled and emergency operation I would have..

Did you answer my question ? If so, you'll need to explain it a little further.

As long as I don't have to get up to move further.....