Pay $43,000 for an Appendectomy? Or less than $3,000?

Discussion in 'ObamaCare' started by Zander, Nov 30, 2017.

  1. BulletProof
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    BulletProof Silver Member

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    Republicans claim to be the party of the free market. They aren't. And, Democrats don't make this claim.

    Democrats would give us socialized medicine. As inherently oppressive and inefficient as socialism is, it's better than our current monopoly pricing. E.g. Canada has universal coverage at half of what the US spends.

    Democrats gave working people subsidized health insurance (Obamacare) which is good thing, given the government-jacked cost of medical care.

    Republicans claim to be bent on repealing Obamacare (or, wrecking it by removing the mandate), but they have nothing to replace it with. They have nothing, like the free market and deregulation, to address the monopoly pricing that makes medical care affordable to the working class.
     
  2. Markle
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    Markle Gold Member Gold Supporting Member Supporting Member

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    I was waiting for someone to rise to the bait. Thank you.

    10 Surprising Facts about American Health Care
    Brief Analyses | Health

    No. 649
    Tuesday, March 24, 2009
    by Scott Atlas

    Medical care in the United States is derided as miserable compared to health care systems in the rest of the developed world. Economists, government officials, insurers and academics alike are beating the drum for a far larger government rôle in health care. Much of the public assumes their arguments are sound because the calls for change are so ubiquitous and the topic so complex. However, before turning to government as the solution, some unheralded facts about America's health care system should be considered.

    Fact No. 1: Americans have better survival rates than Europeans for common cancers.[1] Breast cancer mortality is 52 percent higher in Germany than in the United States, and 88 percent higher in the United Kingdom. Prostate cancer mortality is 604 percent higher in the U.K. and 457 percent higher in Norway. The mortality rate for colorectal cancer among British men and women is about 40 percent higher.

    Fact No. 2: Americans have lower cancer mortality rates than Canadians.[2] Breast cancer mortality is 9 percent higher, prostate cancer is 184 percent higher and colon cancer mortality among men is about 10 percent higher than in the United States.

    Fact No. 3: Americans have better access to treatment for chronic diseases than patients in other developed countries.[3] Some 56 percent of Americans who could benefit are taking statins, which reduce cholesterol and protect against heart disease. By comparison, of those patients who could benefit from these drugs, only 36 percent of the Dutch, 29 percent of the Swiss, 26 percent of Germans, 23 percent of Britons and 17 percent of Italians receive them.

    Fact No. 4: Americans have better access to preventive cancer screening than Canadians.[4] Take the proportion of the appropriate-age population groups who have received recommended tests for breast, cervical, prostate and colon cancer:

    • Nine of 10 middle-aged American women (89 percent) have had a mammogram, compared to less than three-fourths of Canadians (72 percent).
    • Nearly all American women (96 percent) have had a pap smear, compared to less than 90 percent of Canadians.
    • More than half of American men (54 percent) have had a PSA test, compared to less than 1 in 6 Canadians (16 percent).
    • Nearly one-third of Americans (30 percent) have had a colonoscopy, compared with less than 1 in 20 Canadians (5 percent).
    10 Surprising Facts about American Health Care
     
  3. Markle
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    Markle Gold Member Gold Supporting Member Supporting Member

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    You left out the part where the care in the U.S. is superior to the rest of the world as well.
     
  4. Markle
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    Markle Gold Member Gold Supporting Member Supporting Member

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    So long as the insurance company covers the expense, patients don't care about the cost.
     
  5. Markle
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    Markle Gold Member Gold Supporting Member Supporting Member

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    Manufacture, sure. Develop and bring to market? Who pays for those ten years of development, testing, and approval by the FDA? Why do it if there is no profit?
     
  6. BulletProof
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    BulletProof Silver Member

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    Your argument doesn't apply to generics, yet prescription generics often have insane prices. What was it, $600 for two epipens recently, even though these deliver a generic drug? You're a stupid person who buys stupid excuses for the people to be robbed. But, you're on to one thing. The FDA is government and government is the problem.
     
  7. Markle
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    Markle Gold Member Gold Supporting Member Supporting Member

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    And months-long waiting lists for any specialty even up to a year or more. How is that quality health care?

    Canadian Health Care: Patients Waiting Longer Than Ever For Treatment
    • 12/30/2015
    Socialist Medicine: Canadians love their hockey and have historically been happy with their government-run health care system. Hockey is thriving. The country's health care system, though, is a wreck and getting worse.

    It could be said the words "Canada" and "health care" really don't go together because some Canadians never make it to the doctor.

    Too many die untreated due to extended wait times to see a doctor, and those wait times have increased again this year. They are now almost twice as long as they were in 1993, the year Hillary Clinton tried to force government health care on Americans.

    The Fraser Institute says that in 2015, Canadians waited an average of 18.3 weeks to see a specialist, "slightly longer than the 18.2-week wait reported in 2014" and "97% longer than in 1993, when it was just 9.3 weeks."

    [...]

    Canadian Health Care: Patients Waiting Longer Than Ever For Treatment | Stock News & Stock Market Analysis - IBD

    Waiting Your Turn: Wait Times for Health Care in Canada, 2016 Report
     
  8. BulletProof
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    BulletProof Silver Member

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    No thank you for the propaganda. Overall, Australia, Finland, Japan, Sweden, and Switzerland all have lower cancer mortality rates than the US. Denmark, UK, Netherlands, and Ireland have a higher cancer mortality rate. It looks like to me, the US falls into the middle when it comes to cancer mortality. Individual cancers may differ from the overall rate.

    You have more than a score of western-style countries to cherry pick you cancer examples from. But, if I had cancer, half the countries would be the same or better to have cancer in. Tellingly, of the five cancer examples you give, three of them come from the UK, which does have an overall a higher cancer mortality rate.
     
  9. bgrouse
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    bgrouse BANNED

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    Those are some good cherrypicked claims, but how do they explain higher life expectancies in those countries?

    List of countries by life expectancy - Wikipedia

    Maybe Americans just don't live long enough to die from some of those cancers.
     
  10. frigidweirdo
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    frigidweirdo Gold Member

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    Or to keep Americans in the US so they can be screwed over by their own.
     

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