Pawlenty Drops Out

[JoeB131]

I think Obama is very vulnerable. Which is why I'm surprised the Republican field is weak.

Agreed Obama is vulnerable, but his reelection is like the story of the two hikers in the woods who see a bear several hundred yards away which starts running toward them. One hiker drops down and start switching his hiking shoes for running shoes. The other hiker says "Are you crazy? You can't outrun that bear!" The first hiker says, "I don't have to outrun the bear, just you."

All Obama has to do is stay ahead of the Republicans to win.

The Republican field is weak because we're in the middle of a Civil War in the GOP between traditional conservatives and religious-fanatics who believe in "Big Government" as long as they get to call the shots such who can marry whom and tell other people what is moral according to their own standards.

Yawn, guy, I've heard this song before, and never get tired of it.

"Oh, we just need to not nominate one of those religious nuts. We need to nominate a nice sensible moderate who doesn't talk about morals or Jesus or judge me in any way."

And when we listen to that, we nominate John McCain. Or Bob Dole. Or Jerry Ford.

Americans want certainty. They don't have to agree with a man's faith to appreciate he is a man of character. I'm an agnostic. I don't agree with Rick Perry's religion, but I respect that it gives him focus and he's sincere about it.

That's a lot better than a Mitt Romney (R-Kolob) who focus groups his stances before he takes them.

Had an expression when I was in the Army. "Lead, Follow or get the Hell out of the Way!"

 

[Big Fitz]

I'm not sure who is the lesser of two evils in that picture ...

Why am I not surprised that choosing between Cheney or an pagan elder god of destruction and death would be a difficult choice for a lib?

Here's a dollar.

Buy yourself a sense of humour.

Liberal humor. I've heard of it, but never seems to get past the nastiness. So how was I to tell?

 

[Divine Wind]

I basically agree on your statement about the current split inside the Republican party. But I'm not sure I agree that having an actual debate in the Republican party makes them weaker then the mind numbing homogeneity of the Democratic party.

Debate is great! Nothing wrong with disagreement and espousing new ideas. That's not the problem. That isn't what is happening within the GOP. We are in, and have been, in a struggle for the ideological soul of the GOP since 1980 when Ronald Reagan made a Faustian pact with Jerry Falwell and the Christian Coalition in order to win the Presidency.

That fight has now progressed to the point where it is splitting the Party. I'm a Christian, but I do not believe our government should become a religious government for the same reasons our Founding Fathers decided to keep it secular.

On religious issues there can be little or no compromise. There is no position on which people are so immovable as their religious beliefs. There is no more powerful ally one can claim in a debate than Jesus Christ, or God, or Allah, or whatever one calls this supreme being. But like any powerful weapon, the use of God's name on one's behalf should be used sparingly. The religious factions that are growing throughout our land are not using their religious clout with wisdom. They are trying to force government leaders into following their position 100 percent. If you disagree with these religious groups on a particular moral issue, they complain, they threaten you with a loss of money or votes or both. I'm frankly sick and tired of the political preachers across this country telling me as a citizen that if I want to be a moral person, I must believe in A, B, C, and D. Just who do they think they are? And from where do they presume to claim the right to dictate their moral beliefs to me? And I am even more angry as a legislator who must endure the threats of every religious group who thinks it has some God-granted right to control my vote on every roll call in the Senate. I am warning them today: I will fight them every step of the way if they try to dictate their moral convictions to all Americans in the name of conservatism. ~Barry Goldwater

 

[Toro]

Why am I not surprised that choosing between Cheney or an pagan elder god of destruction and death would be a difficult choice for a lib?

Here's a dollar.

Buy yourself a sense of humour.

Liberal humor. I've heard of it, but never seems to get past the nastiness. So how was I to tell?

I don't know. When you are always viewing the world through an ideological prism, it must be tough to differentiate between reality and fantasy sometimes.

 

[Toro]

I basically agree on your statement about the current split inside the Republican party. But I'm not sure I agree that having an actual debate in the Republican party makes them weaker then the mind numbing homogeneity of the Democratic party.

Debate is great! Nothing wrong with disagreement and espousing new ideas. That's not the problem. That isn't what is happening within the GOP. We are in, and have been, in a struggle for the ideological soul of the GOP since 1980 when Ronald Reagan made a Faustian pact with Jerry Falwell and the Christian Coalition in order to win the Presidency.

That fight has now progressed to the point where it is splitting the Party. I'm a Christian, but I do not believe our government should become a religious government for the same reasons our Founding Fathers decided to keep it secular.

On religious issues there can be little or no compromise. There is no position on which people are so immovable as their religious beliefs. There is no more powerful ally one can claim in a debate than Jesus Christ, or God, or Allah, or whatever one calls this supreme being. But like any powerful weapon, the use of God's name on one's behalf should be used sparingly. The religious factions that are growing throughout our land are not using their religious clout with wisdom. They are trying to force government leaders into following their position 100 percent. If you disagree with these religious groups on a particular moral issue, they complain, they threaten you with a loss of money or votes or both. I'm frankly sick and tired of the political preachers across this country telling me as a citizen that if I want to be a moral person, I must believe in A, B, C, and D. Just who do they think they are? And from where do they presume to claim the right to dictate their moral beliefs to me? And I am even more angry as a legislator who must endure the threats of every religious group who thinks it has some God-granted right to control my vote on every roll call in the Senate. I am warning them today: I will fight them every step of the way if they try to dictate their moral convictions to all Americans in the name of conservatism. ~Barry Goldwater

"A time will come when my party will see me as a liberal." - Barry Goldwater.

 

[Big Fitz]

Here's a dollar.

Buy yourself a sense of humour.

Liberal humor. I've heard of it, but never seems to get past the nastiness. So how was I to tell?

I don't know. When you are always viewing the world through an ideological prism, it must be tough to differentiate between reality and fantasy sometimes.

 

[usaloyal2theend]

All I hear is fear from the left.

Is that what I smell?

 

[Divine Wind]

"A time will come when my party will see me as a liberal." - Barry Goldwater.

Good quote and true enough in today's environment, but I can't seem to find a verification that Goldwater ever said it. Do you have a reference to it?

 

[Toro]

"A time will come when my party will see me as a liberal." - Barry Goldwater.

Good quote and true enough in today's environment, but I can't seem to find a verification that Goldwater ever said it. Do you have a reference to it?

It was on a TV documentary that ran on CNBC I watched several years ago. It was a recording of Goldwater saying that line. I believe his daughter had something to do with it, maybe as a producer but I can't remember.

 

[Modbert]

It was on a TV documentary that ran on CNBC I watched several years ago. It was a recording of Goldwater saying that line. I believe his daughter had something to do with it, maybe as a producer but I can't remember.

Though there is also plenty of evidence of how Goldwater felt the way he did.

Barry Goldwater - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

As a passionate defender of personal liberty, he saw the religious right's views as an encroachment on personal privacy and individual liberties.[46] In his 1980 Senate reelection campaign, Goldwater won support from religious conservatives but in his final term voted consistently to uphold legalized abortion and, in 1981, gave a speech on how he was angry about the bullying of American politicians by religious organizations, and would "fight them every step of the way".[47] Goldwater also disagreed with the Reagan administration on certain aspects of foreign policy (for example, he opposed the decision to mine Nicaraguan harbors). Notwithstanding his prior differences with Dwight D. Eisenhower, Goldwater in a 1986 interview rated him the best of the seven Presidents with whom he had worked.

After his retirement in 1987, Goldwater described the Arizona Governor Evan Mecham as "hardheaded" and called on him to resign, and two years later stated that the Republican party had been taken over by a "bunch of kooks".[48]

A few years before his death he went so far as to address the unprincipled establishment "republicans", "Do not associate my name with anything you do. You are extremists, and you've hurt the Republican party much more than the Democrats have."[57]

In 1996, he told Bob Dole, whose own presidential campaign received lukewarm support from conservative Republicans: "We're the new liberals of the Republican party. Can you imagine that?"[58] In that same year, with Senator Dennis DeConcini, Goldwater endorsed an Arizona initiative to legalize medical marijuana against the countervailing opinion of social conservatives.[59]

 

[Divine Wind]

"A time will come when my party will see me as a liberal." - Barry Goldwater.

Good quote and true enough in today's environment, but I can't seem to find a verification that Goldwater ever said it. Do you have a reference to it?

It was on a TV documentary that ran on CNBC I watched several years ago. It was a recording of Goldwater saying that line. I believe his daughter had something to do with it, maybe as a producer but I can't remember.

Thanks. I saw a special on HBO a couple of years ago. Not sure if it was the same one, but it was very good. Certainly a different time for conservative values.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zRq-gelZFgg]Mr. Conservative: Goldwater On Goldwater - YouTube[/ame]

 

[clevergirl]

Barry Morris Goldwater (1909-1998) was a United States Senator (1953-65 and 1969-87) and the Republican nominee for President in 1964. He reinvented the Republican Party after the defeat of Richard M. Nixon in 1960, benefiting from a national grass roots conservative effort that overcame the Eastern liberal Republicans and Nelson Rockefeller in 1964.

Goldwater was strongly anti-communist and called for a rollback of its influence around the world, asking, Why Not Victory. He called for an end to liberal domestic policies as supported by the New Deal Coalition.

Goldwater was defeated in a sweeping landslide in 1964 by incumbent Democrat Lyndon B. Johnson. Goldwater lost the leadership of the conservative movement to Ronald Reagan, but returned to the Senate where he continued to support a strong defense. In recent years libertarians have tried to claim that he was one of them, but Goldwater's view of the role of government, and his positions on foreign policy were the opposite of libertarian views, and Goldwater exhibited none of the anti-marriage sentiments common to the libertarian movement.


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[saveliberty]

Cut and paste is not clever.

 

[Dr Grump]

If repubs don't sort their shit out, Obama will win by default. I cant' see one single repub going "pick me! Pick me!" not a one...

 

[clevergirl]

Cut and paste is not clever.

I was merely doing so to point out Goldwater's political persuasion- no different then posting a youtube clip- get a grip.

Goldwater was no libertarian he was a fiscal conservative devoid of social politics until after he retired. Likewise he had a very tough foreign policy proving he was no political liberal either. He wanted to get rid of New Deal policies as well.

Now if you think you can dispel these facts go for it.

 

[saveliberty]

Cut and paste is not clever.

I was merely doing so to point out Goldwater's political persuasion- no different then posting a youtube clip- get a grip.

Goldwater was no libertarian he was a fiscal conservative devoid of social politics until after he retired. Likewise he had a very tough foreign policy proving he was no political liberal either. He wanted to get rid of New Deal policies as well.

Now if you think you can dispel these facts go for it.

Much more clever. Thank you.

 

[saveliberty]

I find it unlikely that his social leanings did not influence his decisionmaking on political issues. He merely refrained from expresing them publicly.

 

[Divine Wind]

Cut and paste is not clever.

No, but facts are much more appreciated by intelligent people than just someone spouting off an unsubstantiated opinion. Anyone can have an opinion, but it takes a step above in intelligence to research, then cut and paste a factual reference appropriate to the discussion.

 

[clevergirl]

I find it unlikely that his social leanings did not influence his decisionmaking on political issues. He merely refrained from expresing them publicly.

Then by all means point out his votes that support your opinion. Indeed he spoke out critically against New Deal policies- and as I said he had a very aggressive foreign policy with regards to communism.

 

[saveliberty]

I find it unlikely that his social leanings did not influence his decisionmaking on political issues. He merely refrained from expresing them publicly.

Then by all means point out his votes that support your opinion. Indeed he spoke out critically against New Deal policies- and as I said he had a very aggressive foreign policy with regards to communism.

Being against Communism does not exclude support for Socialism.