Paul Ryan flip-flops on Ayn Rand: "“I reject her philosophy”

[bripat9643]

No it's not a Ponzi scheme.

They are not paying current retirees with current revenues because they don't have any choice.?

Yes they are paying current retirees with current revenues.



The only way those securities can be redeemed is with current revenues. Who do you think is on the hook for them, the tooth fairy? The taxpayers are the ones on the hook.

Ponzi schemes pay older investors with new money because they don't have any other money.

That describes SSI perfectly. You have to be terminally naive not to understand that.

US treasuries are redeemed all the time. What do you think money market accounts do with their cash? What do you think pension funds all across this country do with their cash? When an American buys a T-bond, for the interest, where do you think the $1000 went? Where do you think it comes from when the bond matures?

You are way out of your depth.

When a private citizen or corporation redeems a Tresury Bond, current taxpayers are the ones who pay it off. It does the government no good to hold T-Bills because the government is the party that issues the T-Bills.

It's the same with I.O.U.s. If I give you an I.O.U., and you give me money, then that I.O.U. would be worth actual money if I can be counted on to pay it off. However, if I issue an I.O.U. to myself, it's worth exactly nothing.

That's what the T-bills in the so-called Trust Fund are: I.O.U.s that the government issued to itself.

They are absolutely worthless.

Anyone who doesn't understand that is terminally clueless.

 

[bripat9643]

There is a Trust Fund it consists of US treasury securities, as it always has.

These are IOU's. The money does not exist. The money has been spent on other kool stuff and replaced with said IOUs.

When the debt ceiling was not certain to be raised last year, Obama pointed out the SS checks would not be going out.

How would you invest SS funds so that you wouldn't effectively hold IOU's?

I would give everyone a personal account and allow them to choose their own investements. The last thing we need is government investing trillions of dollars in private industry. It would only be a matter of time until government owned all private industry. Then we would have genuine socialism.

 

[SniperFire]

he didn't say "religious philosophy" he said "philosophy" which would mean all of the Randian screed.(

No, just because he didn't say 'religious philosophy' does not mean that, dumbass.

 

[NYcarbineer]

These are IOU's. The money does not exist. The money has been spent on other kool stuff and replaced with said IOUs.

When the debt ceiling was not certain to be raised last year, Obama pointed out the SS checks would not be going out.

How would you invest SS funds so that you wouldn't effectively hold IOU's?

I would give everyone a personal account and allow them to choose their own investements. The last thing we need is government investing trillions of dollars in private industry. It would only be a matter of time until government owned all private industry. Then we would have genuine socialism.

You didn't answer my question.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Yes they are paying current retirees with current revenues.



The only way those securities can be redeemed is with current revenues. Who do you think is on the hook for them, the tooth fairy? The taxpayers are the ones on the hook.




That describes SSI perfectly. You have to be terminally naive not to understand that.

US treasuries are redeemed all the time. What do you think money market accounts do with their cash? What do you think pension funds all across this country do with their cash? When an American buys a T-bond, for the interest, where do you think the $1000 went? Where do you think it comes from when the bond matures?

You are way out of your depth.

When a private citizen or corporation redeems a Tresury Bond, current taxpayers are the ones who pay it off. It does the government no good to hold T-Bills because the government is the party that issues the T-Bills.

It's the same with I.O.U.s. If I give you an I.O.U., and you give me money, then that I.O.U. would be worth actual money if I can be counted on to pay it off. However, if I issue an I.O.U. to myself, it's worth exactly nothing.

That's what the T-bills in the so-called Trust Fund are: I.O.U.s that the government issued to itself.

They are absolutely worthless.

Anyone who doesn't understand that is terminally clueless.

SS is a separate entity funded by the payroll funded specifically by workers who stand to benefit from SS if/when they become eligible. It is not the government loaning to itself. The Trust Fund is invested in securities that represent borrowing by the general fund, whose revenues come from other taxes.

 

[bripat9643]

How would you invest SS funds so that you wouldn't effectively hold IOU's?

I would give everyone a personal account and allow them to choose their own investments. The last thing we need is government investing trillions of dollars in private industry. It would only be a matter of time until government owned all private industry. Then we would have genuine socialism.

You didn't answer my question.

Yes I did.

 

[NYcarbineer]

he didn't say "religious philosophy" he said "philosophy" which would mean all of the Randian screed. Swing & a miss SniperFire

Don't worry, Ryan will manufacture some sort of 'clarification' that will politically clean this up.

 

[NYcarbineer]

I would give everyone a personal account and allow them to choose their own investments. The last thing we need is government investing trillions of dollars in private industry. It would only be a matter of time until government owned all private industry. Then we would have genuine socialism.

You didn't answer my question.

Yes I did.

No. Where do you invest ANY money that doesn't result effectively in some sort of IOU?

Does that make the question clearer?

 

[NYcarbineer]

These are IOU's. The money does not exist. The money has been spent on other kool stuff and replaced with said IOUs.

When the debt ceiling was not certain to be raised last year, Obama pointed out the SS checks would not be going out.

How would you invest SS funds so that you wouldn't effectively hold IOU's?

I would give everyone a personal account and allow them to choose their own investements.

You have that already. Pensions from work, IRA's, 401K's, 403B's whatever. You have ample opportunity to invest for retirement and receive ample government benefit, ie tax breaks, for doing so.

 

[bripat9643]

US treasuries are redeemed all the time. What do you think money market accounts do with their cash? What do you think pension funds all across this country do with their cash? When an American buys a T-bond, for the interest, where do you think the $1000 went? Where do you think it comes from when the bond matures?

You are way out of your depth.

When a private citizen or corporation redeems a Tresury Bond, current taxpayers are the ones who pay it off. It does the government no good to hold T-Bills because the government is the party that issues the T-Bills.

It's the same with I.O.U.s. If I give you an I.O.U., and you give me money, then that I.O.U. would be worth actual money if I can be counted on to pay it off. However, if I issue an I.O.U. to myself, it's worth exactly nothing.

That's what the T-bills in the so-called Trust Fund are: I.O.U.s that the government issued to itself.

They are absolutely worthless.

Anyone who doesn't understand that is terminally clueless.

SS is a separate entity funded by the payroll funded specifically by workers who stand to benefit from SS if/when they become eligible. It is not the government loaning to itself. The Trust Fund is invested in securities that represent borrowing by the general fund, whose revenues come from other taxes.

The fund is not separate from the government, so your entire argument is horseshit. The trust fund is a drawer full of worthless I.O.U.s that the government issued to itself. Government issued the T-Bills, and government is the legal payee for the T-bills.

The bottom line is that the taxpayers are on the hook to pay-off the T-bills, so the taxpayers gain nothing from their existence.

 

[SniperFire]

he didn't say "religious philosophy" he said "philosophy" which would mean all of the Randian screed. Swing & a miss SniperFire

Don't worry, Ryan will manufacture some sort of 'clarification' that will politically clean this up.

I'm not worried. Nobody cares about your manufactured fake outrage.

 

[Dot Com]

he didn't say "religious philosophy" he said "philosophy" which would mean all of the Randian screed. Swing & a miss SniperFire

Don't worry, Ryan will manufacture some sort of 'clarification' that will politically clean this up.

no doubt. That guy is a Randian no matter what lies he tells.

 

[NYcarbineer]

When a private citizen or corporation redeems a Tresury Bond, current taxpayers are the ones who pay it off. It does the government no good to hold T-Bills because the government is the party that issues the T-Bills.

It's the same with I.O.U.s. If I give you an I.O.U., and you give me money, then that I.O.U. would be worth actual money if I can be counted on to pay it off. However, if I issue an I.O.U. to myself, it's worth exactly nothing.

That's what the T-bills in the so-called Trust Fund are: I.O.U.s that the government issued to itself.

They are absolutely worthless.

Anyone who doesn't understand that is terminally clueless.

SS is a separate entity funded by the payroll funded specifically by workers who stand to benefit from SS if/when they become eligible. It is not the government loaning to itself. The Trust Fund is invested in securities that represent borrowing by the general fund, whose revenues come from other taxes.

The fund is not separate from the government, so your entire argument is horseshit. The trust fund is a drawer full of worthless I.O.U.s that the government issued to itself. Government issued the T-Bills, and government is the legal payee for the T-bills.

The bottom line is that the taxpayers are on the hook to pay-off the T-bills, so the taxpayers gain nothing from their existence.

Are you saying all the debt held by the Chinese can never be paid back? Why do the Chinese keep loaning us money then?

 

[NYcarbineer]

he didn't say "religious philosophy" he said "philosophy" which would mean all of the Randian screed. Swing & a miss SniperFire

Don't worry, Ryan will manufacture some sort of 'clarification' that will politically clean this up.

I'm not worried. Nobody cares about your manufactured fake outrage.

Where did I express any outrage?

 

[SniperFire]

Don't worry, Ryan will manufacture some sort of 'clarification' that will politically clean this up.

I'm not worried. Nobody cares about your manufactured fake outrage.

Where did I express any outrage?

You said there was a need to 'clean up' something. There is no mess other than your faux outrage.

Do better next time.

 

[Old Rocks]

Seems the irony and hypocrisy escapes you on this one.

No it doesn't. I'd opt out of SS in a second if I could, and I think it's unconstitutional and is bankrupting this nation. But when I hit 65 you're damn fucking straight I'm recouping what was taken from me.

As we all know, SS is nothing more than a welfare program now.

Saying you plan to get back the monies you 'paid into' is disingenuous.

You are just planning to jump on the welfare bandwagon at 65 like everyone else.

Hey, most of you cannot get on it at 65, at least not on full SS. I had to wait to 66 and 1/2 to get full SS. Thanks to the Clinton economy, now you can work full time and draw full SS.

 

[Old Rocks]

What kind of man did Ayn Rand idealize? That should be a insight into the psychology of the people like Ryan that admire the philosophy expounded by Ayn Rand.

Romancing the Stone-Cold Killer

Part One: Ayn Rand's "real man"

Recently I was rereading Scott Ryan's fascinating, albeit highly technical, critique of Ayn Rand's philosophy, Objectivism and the Corruption of Rationality, and getting a lot more out of it the second time, when I came across a fact culled from a posthumous collection of Rand's journal entries.

In her journal circa 1928 Rand quoted the statement, "What is good for me is right," a credo attributed to a prominent figure of the day, William Edward Hickman. Her response was enthusiastic. "The best and strongest expression of a real man's psychology I have heard," she exulted. (Quoted in Ryan, citing Journals of Ayn Rand, pp. 21-22.)

At the time, she was planning a novel that was to be titled The Little Street, the projected hero of which was named Danny Renahan. According to Rand scholar Chris Matthew Sciabarra, she deliberately modeled Renahan - intended to be her first sketch of her ideal man - after this same William Edward Hickman. Renahan, she enthuses in another journal entry, "is born with a wonderful, free, light consciousness -- [resulting from] the absolute lack of social instinct or herd feeling. He does not understand, because he has no organ for understanding, the necessity, meaning, or importance of other people ... Other people do not exist for him and he does not understand why they should." (Journals, pp. 27, 21-22; emphasis hers.)

.......................................................................................

In December of 1927, Hickman, nineteen years old, showed up at a Los Angeles public school and managed to get custody of a twelve-year-old girl, Marian (sometimes Marion) Parker. He was able to convince Marian's teacher that the girl's father, a well-known banker, had been seriously injured in a car accident and that the girl had to go to the hospital immediately. The story was a lie. Hickman disappeared with Marian, and over the next few days Mr. and Mrs. Parker received a series of ransom notes. The notes were cruel and taunting and were sometimes signed "Death" or "Fate." The sum of $1,500 was demanded for the child's safe release. (Hickman needed this sum, he later claimed, because he wanted to go to Bible college!) The father raised the payment in gold certificates and delivered it to Hickman. As told by the article "Fate, Death and the Fox" in crimelibrary.com,

"At the rendezvous, Mr. Parker handed over the money to a young man who was waiting for him in a parked car. When Mr. Parker paid the ransom, he could see his daughter, Marion, sitting in the passenger seat next to the suspect. As soon as the money was exchanged, the suspect drove off with the victim still in the car. At the end of the street, Marion's corpse was dumped onto the pavement. She was dead. Her legs had been chopped off and her eyes had been wired open to appear as if she was still alive. Her internal organs had been cut out and pieces of her body were later found strewn all over the Los Angeles area."

Quite a hero, eh? One might question whether Hickman had "a wonderful, free, light consciousness," but surely he did have "no organ for understanding ... the necessity, meaning, or importance of other people."

Should we have anyone who admires the philosophy of someone like Ayn Rand in a position of power in this nation?